• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Zyrox

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,625
On the face of it, this dude looks broken as shit.

-Invincible crouch dash
-Bowser's side B with armor
- Full screen Rob's laser
-Reflect
-Up B out of shield that kills and doesn't put you into freefall
-Two shield breaking moves
-Heavy weight
-Tough guy
-A bunch of invincible, high priority moves
-Ledge spike and aerial spike
-Comeback mechanic

I've got a bad feeling about this...

Do we even know if down b is a command grab? Might just be a hit grab, we haven't seen it winning against shields I don't think.

Laser looks REALLY commital. Fast characters will tear Kaz a new one if he attempts this.

Reflect is tied to a motion move which basically means if you want to use it as a reflector you need to predict the opponents move rather than react to it.

UpB's usefulness as a reversal depends on how fast it is. If it has a slow startup all the killpower in the world is not gonna help it. No freefall is nice though.

Shieldbreaking moves are kind of hit or miss...like you don't actually see Sephiroth breaking too many shields despite also having a shieldbreaker. Gonna make for some nice online cheese, though.

Heavy weight is nice but not super important. It certainly ain't saving Ganon.

Tough guy seems to be weaker than Bowser's which already has kind of niche uses. So dunno if this will be much of a big deal.

Invincible moves are nice but how commital are they going to be? If they are too risky they won't be very good. Impossible to say atm.

Spikes are just a standard Smash thing. Most characters have that.

Rage doesn't seem too crazy of a comeback mechanic. 10% more damage is not too crazy.

Like, not saying Kazuya can't be strong but there's really too little info to say one way or the other. The Smash Ultimate team has been pretty good with balance overall so I don't think Kazuya will turn out any different.
 

Jave

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,825
Chile
Well, Lloyd is out, Dante is out, Shantae is out. Shantae's Mii looks surprisingly good, and it's a Premium one so I'll be getting it.

Arle and Phoenix Wright still not deconfirmed. Please let the last character be one of them.
 

Deleted member 6122

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
533
On the face of it, this dude looks broken as shit.

-Invincible crouch dash
-Bowser's side B with armor
- Full screen Rob's laser
-Reflect
-Up B out of shield that kills and doesn't put you into freefall
-Two shield breaking moves
-Heavy weight
-Tough guy
-Auto turnaround
-A bunch of invincible, high priority moves
-Ledge spike and aerial spike
-Comeback mechanic
-Insane damage output

I've got a bad feeling about this...
The intent seems to be that his stubby reach and long startup on most attacks are his weaknesses, but if he can just invincible/super armor through most things anyway I think that compensates a bit too well... hopefully they have enough time to balance him post launch if not at launch. With tournaments only recently heading back offline I think people are going to see how busted Pyra/Mythra and to an extent Min Min are as well.

EDIT: want to clarify no character is currently as busted as Smash 4 Bayo, Brawl MK, or even Melee Fox in this game, and I don't think Kazuya will be either. When introducing so many new mechanics and variables though, it can definitely lead to some OP stuff slipping through balance that they may end up wanting to address.
 

Gin & Phonics

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,130
Do we even know if down b is a command grab? Might just be a hit grab, we haven't seen it winning against shields I don't think.

Laser looks REALLY commital. Fast characters will tear Kaz a new one if he attempts this.

Reflect is tied to a motion move which basically means if you want to use it as a reflector you need to predict the opponents move rather than react to it.

UpB's usefulness as a reversal depends on how fast it is. If it has a slow startup all the killpower in the world is not gonna help it. No freefall is nice though.

Shieldbreaking moves are kind of hit or miss...like you don't actually see Sephiroth breaking too many shields despite also having a shieldbreaker. Gonna make for some nice online cheese, though.

Heavy weight is nice but not super important. It certainly ain't saving Ganon.

Tough guy seems to be weaker than Bowser's which already has kind of niche uses. So dunno if this will be much of a big deal.

Invincible moves are nice but how commital are they going to be? If they are too risky they won't be very good. Impossible to say atm.

Spikes are just a standard Smash thing. Most characters have that.

Rage doesn't seem too crazy of a comeback mechanic. 10% more damage is not too crazy.

Like, not saying Kazuya can't be strong but there's really too little info to say one way or the other. The Smash Ultimate team has been pretty good with balance overall so I don't think Kazuya will turn out any different.



--Lazer seems laggier than I thought, but it seems like a nice tool for a shoto character to have who normally doesn't have the ability to apply safe off-stage pressure.

--Reflect requires some setup and anticipation, but for a character who might have trouble getting in, it's a nice tool to have to avoid getting outright camped. Also, even though it's situational, just having a reflector on a random tilt move is a luxury to have.

--His up B seems to be about frame 11 or 12, which is good enough, but made even better because he can act out of it. I imagine it'll act like Corrin's Up B but with kill power, but hopefully it won't be as tough to punish as G&W's Up B.

--True, shield break moves are pretty hit or miss. Especially Sephiroth's which doesn't break consistently unless he has one wing. Ken's shield break is pretty effective though and Kazuya's down-forward tilt seems very similar. I figure at least one of his two shield break moves will be effective, but we'll see tomorrow

--Spikes are standard, but not many have a way to apply pressure on ledge hangers in the form of a spike -- none of the Shotos can apply pressure while their opponent is ledge hanging.

--Ganon is hindered by his poor recovery and slow run speed, which Kazuya seems to not be plagued by. Kazuya's full hop is booty, but his double jump looks floaty and gets nice height, along with his Up B which can be used with mixups. He also seems faster and has a fantastic approach option with crouch dashes.

--Yeah, I guess rage isn't too crazy for a character whose damage output is already insane (what is 1.1x gonna really do). But I was more so looking at that it gives him a move that turns his armored command grab into a move that deals 40% and kills early.



A lot of these attributes might not be impressive on their own, but they're jamming this character's toolbox full of great moves that seemingly don't need additional properties/boosts. As you said, the team has been pretty good with balancing, but some of the recent DLC characters have been pretty nutty (i.e. Steve, Minmin, and even Sephiroth). It's fun to theorize, but yeah, we'll see tomorrow.

Also a couple of things: it looks like Kazuya's side taunt does 23%. And the 10 hit combo, which Sakurai didn't land all 10 hits of -- did 24%. With how long it lasts, shit will probably carry you to the ledge and kill lol.
 
Last edited:

Zyrox

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,625
Also a couple of things: it looks like Kazuya's side taunt does 23%. And the 10 hit combo, which Sakurai didn't land all 10 hits of -- did 24%. With how long it lasts, shit will probably carry you to the ledge and kill lol.

Keep in mind that the footage is from a dev build and values like frame data and damage might still be tweaked until the final release. Better not read too much into numbers right now.

Also, the 10-hit combo in Tekken is a meme. It's not actually a true combo there so I doubt it will be in Smash either.
 

Poltergust

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,832
Orlando, FL
Yeah, I guess rage isn't too crazy for a character whose damage output is already insane (what is 1.1x gonna really do).
A lot, actually. It's not just an increase in damage and knockback (the latter of which will already stack with Smash's universal rage mechanic), but would also make his moves more plus on shield, push them back more, and deal more shield damage.

Sephiroth only gets a damage buff with One-Winged Angel active and he's able to pressure shields a lot more easily due to the above factors.
 

Gin & Phonics

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,130
Ignore my use of "shoto" lol, my bad. I mostly meant it in the way Kazuya shares a lot of properties with Ken/Ryu, like auto turnaround, similar comboing, similar tilts, the majority of their air attacks are the same.

The intent seems to be that his stubby reach and long startup on most attacks are his weaknesses, but if he can just invincible/super armor through most things anyway I think that compensates a bit too well... hopefully they have enough time to balance him post launch if not at launch. With tournaments only recently heading back offline I think people are going to see how busted Pyra/Mythra and to an extent Min Min are as well.

EDIT: want to clarify no character is currently as busted as Smash 4 Bayo, Brawl MK, or even Melee Fox in this game, and I don't think Kazuya will be either. When introducing so many new mechanics and variables though, it can definitely lead to some OP stuff slipping through balance that they may end up wanting to address.

Yeah, we'll see tomorrow just how poor his frame data and range is. With only one more patch left after this (and maybe another bonus patch in case the last DLC character needs some tuning), I really hope this character is somewhat balanced. The last slew of DLC characters have been pretty bonkers, so I don't really see how Kazuya's gonna be any different. Min Min in particular is stupid lol

Keep in mind that the footage is from a dev build and values like frame data and damage might still be tweaked until the final release. Better not read too much into numbers right now.

Also, the 10-hit combo in Tekken is a meme. It's not actually a true combo there so I doubt it will be in Smash either.

Yeah, we'll see about the numbers. I typically don't think they change the numbers from what's presented in these videos, but I could be wrong.

The 10 hit combo seems like it connects all the hits though, not sure why it wouldn't unless you stopped mashing.

A lot, actually. It's not just an increase in damage and knockback (the latter of which will already stack with Smash's universal rage mechanic), but would also make his moves more plus on shield, push them back more, and deal more shield damage.

Sephiroth only gets a damage buff with One-Winged Angel active and he's able to pressure shields a lot more easily due to the above factors.

True. I wasn't thinking about the plus on shield and pushback and shield damage. That could actually make a pretty big difference.
 
Last edited:

Zyrox

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,625
A lot, actually. It's not just an increase in damage and knockback (the latter of which will already stack with Smash's universal rage mechanic), but would also make his moves more plus on shield, push them back more, and deal more shield damage.

Sephiroth only gets a damage buff with One-Winged Angel active and he's able to pressure shields a lot more easily due to the above factors.

Sephiroth's buff is 1.3x. Quite the difference from 1.1x. Your point stands overall but Sephiroth's effects are more extreme than Kazuya's rage is here.
 

Quacktion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,479
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. Lack of popularity/presence in Japan seems like more of a deal breaker than the violence that Midway/NRS was themselves willing to tone down as necessary.
Much like with previous characters, Sakurai could educate the Japanese fanbase about MK with a quick history lesson. Honestly MK is so big world wide that it wouldnt be too much of a streach.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,086
Why would Samurai add Scorpion when MK is effectively banned in Japan and the one thing about MK that's unique is the one thing that's not allowed in Smash other than anime until Goku joins?
 

Virtua Sanus

Member
Nov 24, 2017
6,492
I can't see an MK rep getting in if they aren't able to do Fatalities or X-Rays. NRS has fully embraced the ultraviolent nature of MK from 9 onwards and they won't want it watering down for Smash.
They could very easily get away with having his original fatality where he takes off his face to reveal a skeleton that breaths fire. It is completely tame by today's standards.

X-Rays are not needed. Outside of the focus attack, the donkey kick and the way parries are animated Ryu almost exclusively takes stuff from his appearance in Street Fighter II. Outside of the design likely needing to be the modern look and maybe them wanting to use a sword for some moves I do not think Scorpion needs anything post MK3.
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,238
They could very easily get away with having his original fatality where he takes off his face to reveal a skeleton that breaths fire. It is completely tame by today's standards.

X-Rays are not needed. Outside of the focus attack, the donkey kick and the way parries are animated Ryu almost exclusively takes stuff from his appearance in Street Fighter II. Outside of the design likely needing to be the modern look and maybe them wanting to use a sword for some moves I do not think Scorpion needs anything post MK3.
Netherrealm themselves even did a more tamed down version of Scorpion for Injustice that was well received (along with Sub-Zero and Raiden).