Most travel from Europe to USA suspended for 30 days beginning Friday (some countries exempt. See threadmarks.)

[RestEerie]

Kojima continues to be a prophet. First he predicted the digital information manipulation and memes in MGS2. Now Death Stranding predicted that the world will be 'disconnected' from each other....sooner or later, only the Fedex and DHL man will be our main source of 'physical connection' to another continent.

 

[harry the spy]

Yeah, trump is a dumbass, but I don't understand what's wrong in imposing more travel restrictions?

Countries like France, Spain, and especially Italy are getting more and more infested with the disease, and it only makes sense to make the move to stop the flow of the disease, it would be better for both Europe and America.

Am I like, missing something? Cause I dont see it.

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The virus is already in the US. Most of the US cases will now be homegrown. The ban is very easy to circumvent. Unless they literally ban French citizens, for instance, a French person can literally hop on the Eurostar or take a plane, and fly from heathrow - which might be what they would have done anyway. Free movement means your passport doesn't show where you have been. No stamps. You could have been in the UK for one day or ten years, they have no way to tell. The UK is just a few days behind France and Italy - why exclude them ? They will be hit just the same.

 

[GiantEnemyCrab]

How long until he claims Europe "invented the virus"?

 

[KeRaSh]

I'm a little concerned.
My wife and I have flights booked from Germany to the US on 4/15 so technically after the ban is supposed to be lifted.
Now that ban doesn't include US citizens (which I am) and their spouses but we need to get tested for the virus? How does that work?
Do they take swabs at the airport in the US or do we need to see a doctor and get a document that says we're not infected?
What a shit-show.

 

[Hrothgar]

And yesterday I jokingly said to a friend that we should ban all flights from the US due to the sheer ineptitude in their handling of the virus...

 

[Ada]

Does trump know that UK still has freedom of movement till the end of the year?

Edit: I just remembered he has 2 golf courses here. He would lose money if people couldn't fly to them.

 

[Ravensmash]

Does trump know that UK still has freedom of movement till the end of the year?

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Probably not.

(But from what I've read, potential travellers will have needed to have been in the UK for at least 14 days prior to flying from there)

 

[Deleted member 31104]

To be fair to Trump, it's to do with Schengen not free movement. Schengen means there's no border controls for people between most EU countries (Ireland and the UK apart). Because of Schengen it's not possible to say whether someone has been in Italy or not via their passport as it is not scanned or stamped. Even though the UK and Ireland have free movement currently, EU (and UK citizens) are still required to present their passport at the border where it is scanned and the entry recorded.

 

[Nooblet]

To be fair to Trump, it's to do with Schengen not free movement. Schengen means there's no border controls for people between most EU countries (Ireland and the UK apart). Because of Schengen it's not possible to say whether someone has been in Italy or not via their passport as it is not scanned or stamped. Even though the UK and Ireland have free movement currently, EU (and UK citizens) are still required to present their passport at the border where it is scanned and the entry recorded.

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Actually that's quite right.
And that's make this ban well thought out, the UK does check almost every passport that comes in. I say almost because sometimes between Dover and Calais they don't (I remember I was coming back from the Alps in a bus and the group leader of our tour went to speak to one of the border control officers then he came back and simply asked "is everyone here British?" And that was enough for the officials to let everyone pass..lol)

 

[CloudWolf]

Why is UK excluded?

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Because Trump is buddies with Boris Johnson

 

[Deleted member 9237]

They literally are, free-movement is in place until December 31st.

Free movement continues past Brexit day, but only until the end of the year - Free Movement

From 11pm today, the United Kingdom will no longer be a member of the European Union. This momentous event has both geopolitical and psychological

www.freemovement.org.uk

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Free movement doesn't mean no border control, the UK was never part of Schengen and always had passport controls

 

[Eoin]

Yeah, trump is a dumbass, but I don't understand what's wrong in imposing more travel restrictions?

Countries like France, Spain, and especially Italy are getting more and more infested with the disease, and it only makes sense to make the move to stop the flow of the disease, it would be better for both Europe and America.

Am I like, missing something? Cause I dont see it.

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Travel restrictions make sense. Travel restrictions that include the entire Schengen area are...drastic, but arguable. However, any measure that does that should also include a number of other nations outside Schengen. The infection rate in both Ireland and the UK is relatively low, per capita, compared to many other countries in Europe, but not dramatically out of line. Any sensible travel restrictions should also include other nations (and probably not be quite as dramatic as this).

There's the following additional considerations:

- Trump announced this without consulting with seemingly anyone in Europe. That's not just stupid, it's malicious and dangerous.

- Trump got on TV and just spewed out words that were distant cousins of the words on the prompter. That meant that there was (and still is) a lot of confusion about exactly what he was announcing. We still have people thinking that only the UK is excluded. Among many, many other problems with what he said, he started off blaming "the European Union", announced a travel ban on "Europe", and later it turned out that the restriction was specifically the Schengen Area. These are all different things.

- Trump also announced a ban on trade with Europe. That's also related to his inability to do basic things like reading and speaking without causing international problems, but it's important enough that it needs to be stressed separately. Trump went live on TV and announced that he was going to break the economy of two continents. It's understandable that people reacted to what was announced.

Ghost Flights are absolutely a thing.

Why Airlines Are Flying Empty Ghost Planes

The problem has been brewing for a while, but it's worse than ever before.

www.popularmechanics.com

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This is currently true. However, among the many things being discussed by EU leaders is some kind of relaxation of the rule that airlines have to fulfil a certain percentage of flights or risk their slots. It's entirely possible that those ghost flights will stop. That would leave US citizens in Europe, with no legal restriction on returning to the USA, but without any easy way to make that journey.

 

[Serious Sam]

Why is UK excluded?

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Because Trump hates European Union with great passion. This is Trump's way of saying that UK made a "wise" decision with Brexit.

 

[lexony]

Because our current administration doesn't like the EU I suppose. I didn't say they did it for the right reasons.

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It still dosen't make sense. Switzerland is on the list too, but was never part of the EU.

 

[Deleted member 31104]

Because Trump is buddies with Boris Johnson

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Because Trump hates European Union with great passion. This is Trump's way of saying that UK made a "wise" decision with Brexit.

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In this case not really. It's about tracing. Because in Ireland/UK is not in the schengen treaty you can tell where someone entered the UK/Ireland from before coming to the US, you can't do that reliably in the rest of the EU because passports are not needed to travel between countries in schengen zone. So for instance you can't ban anyone who's been in Italy in the last two weeks, because for 445 million EU citizens there's no actual record of whether they've been there or not. Schengen is one passport border, if you're banning a subsection of it (people from Italy or who have visited Italy) you need to ban people from all of it.

I'm no fan of Trump or his administration but there's actually method to the madness here.

 

[Deleted member 31104]

It still dosen't make sense. Switzerland is on the list too, but was never part of the EU.

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Switzerland is in schengen. See my previous post. As I said, it seems weird but it actually makes a lick of sense.

 

[Polk]

It still dosen't make sense. Switzerland is on the list too, but was never part of the EU.

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Switzerland is in Schengen area.

 

[Lyre]

The virus has just hit London and the UK is excluded, now all European transit will be funnelled through Heathrow, which will become an infection hotspot.

Trump, and his voters, are the dumbest people on the planet.

 

[Serious Sam]

In this case not really. It's about tracing. Because in Ireland/UK is not in the schengen treaty you can tell where someone entered the UK/Ireland from before coming to the US, you can't do that reliably in the rest of the EU because passports are not needed to travel between countries in schengen zone. So for instance you can't ban anyone who's been in Italy in the last two weeks, because for 445 million EU citizens there's no actual record of whether they've been there or not. Schengen is one passport border, if you're banning a subsection of it (people from Italy or who have visited Italy) you need to ban people from all of it.

I'm no fan of Trump or his administration but there's actually method to the madness here.

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Not sure why people blame Schengen. It's essentially like the United States. No one checks you when you go from state to state either. Trump is banning EU and faulting it for the same things that US vulnerable too. *shrug*

 

[GatsGatsby]

I'm a little concerned.
My wife and I have flights booked from Germany to the US on 4/15 so technically after the ban is supposed to be lifted.
Now that ban doesn't include US citizens (which I am) and their spouses but we need to get tested for the virus? How does that work?
Do they take swabs at the airport in the US or do we need to see a doctor and get a document that says we're not infected?
What a shit-show.

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Maybe go the doctors note route. As of a week ago airports in the US were not doing anything in prevention of the virus. My boyfriend came home from South Korea last week he said in Korea the airport was covered with hazmat teams checking people and disinfectant teams. When he landed in Texas a state that at that time had confirmed cases the place was business as usual.

 

[Eoin]

The virus has just hit London and the UK is excluded, now all European transit will be funnelled through Heathrow, which will become an infection hotspot.

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Although this is a common theory, I think the reality is going to be much simpler. There are very few Europeans with a desperate need to get to the United States. Travel in general is way down anyway. The majority of people who want to go from Europe to the USA will not want that so much that try to sidestep this ban.

The ban itself also prevents this. It applies to anyone who is not a citizen of the US who has been to any Schengen country in the 14 days before arrival in the USA. That might not always be easy to check and enforce, but that's what the ban us.

 

[Batatina]

This is unfortunate to a lot of people, but this is all so good for the planet.

 

[Deleted member 31104]

Not sure why people blame Schengen. It's essentially like the United States. No one checks you when you go from state to state either. Trump is banning EU and faulting it for the same things that US vulnerable too. *shrug*

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Because Italy is a hot zone with the virus rapidly spreading and an acute breakdown of healthcare provision. If South Carolina was a massive hot zone for it, travellers from the US would be banned elsewhere not just South Carolina. It's the same concept.

 

[Lyre]

Although this is a common theory, I think the reality is going to be much simpler. There are very few Europeans with a desperate need to get to the United States. Travel in general is way down anyway. The majority of people who want to go from Europe to the USA will not want that so much that try to sidestep this ban.

The ban itself also prevents this. It applies to anyone who is not a citizen of the US who has been to any Schengen country in the 14 days before arrival in the USA. That might not always be easy to check and enforce, but that's what the ban us.

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You do realise that the UK also has the virus? All it takes is for one person to reach the states and it'll spread...

 

[Eoin]

You do realise that the UK also has the virus? All it takes is for one person to reach the states and it'll spread...

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Please tell me the specific part of my post that made you think that I'm so totally clueless that I don't know which countries have the virus and which don't.

 

[DavidDesu]

The virus has just hit London and the UK is excluded, now all European transit will be funnelled through Heathrow, which will become an infection hotspot.

Trump, and his voters, are the dumbest people on the planet.

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I'm convinced you could get a group of 7 year old in a room, tell them the world's problems and they would come up with better governance than the right wing in America.

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

Because Italy is a hot zone with the virus rapidly spreading and an acute breakdown of healthcare provision. If South Carolina was a massive hot zone for it, travellers from the US would be banned elsewhere not just South Carolina. It's the same concept.

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America still doesn't know the hot beds because of the incomptence of its federal rulers

 

[Bleu]

the virus is already in the us, and whatever infected people may come by plane is a drop in the ocean compared to your now home-grown cases.
It won't change anything now.
irrational pantomime.

 

[EloKa]

Why is UK excluded?

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Trump Golf resorts in the UK: Two Three.
Trump Golf resorts in the EU: Zero.

 

[Rowsdower]

I hate to say it, but he should have included Canada in the travel ban.

A majority of our cases are already from people who traveled to the US. Would help us out at least.

 

[Westbahnhof]

Trump Golf resorts in the UK: Two.
Trump Golf resorts in the EU: Zero.

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There are a few things wrong here (like forgetting that the UK is part of the EU), correct would be:

Trump Golf resorts not in the Schengen area: Three (2x UK, 1x Ireland)
Trump Golf resorts in the Schengen area: Zero

(this might still be wrong, but it's closer to true)

 

[FakePlasticTree]

Trump Golf resorts in the UK: Two.
Trump Golf resorts in the EU: Zero.

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Beat me to it, haha.

 

[Irminsul]

There are a few things wrong here (like forgetting that the UK is part of the EU), correct would be:

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It's not, though.

 

[Westbahnhof]

It's not, though.

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Comes down to semantics I guess, since while they're officially out, they aren't... out. Idk, maybe that's a personal hangup, and kinda besides the point, so I'll gladly concede.
I should've limited my post to "there are Trump golf resorts in the EU, but lucky for the bastard, none within the Schengen area"

 

[Fuchs]

Wait! So countries in the Schengen area aren't affected by this ban?
This is so confusing

 

[Eoin]

Wait! So countries in the Schengen area aren't affected by this ban?
This is so confusing

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Other way around. The ban is specifically for all Schengen area countries.

 

[Westbahnhof]

Wait! So countries in the Schengen area aren't affected by this ban?
This is so confusing

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Like it says above, so far it seems like only Schengen countries are banned. Which is... really limited and seems, at least to be, incredibly dumb and futile, bordering on trolling.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[Haribo]

I hope this works both ways, because goven your government's response, Americans traveling abroad are a massive liability. 🤷‍♂️

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And yesterday I jokingly said to a friend that we should ban all flights from the US due to the sheer ineptitude in their handling of the virus...

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Sure, use this as a launchboard as if Americans had any say in it. Love when people say things like this.

 

[EloKa]

There are a few things wrong here (like forgetting that the UK is part of the EU), correct would be:

Trump Golf resorts not in the Schengen area: Three (2x UK, 1x Ireland)
Trump Golf resorts in the Schengen area: Zero

(this might still be wrong, but it's closer to true)

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Didn't know about that 2nd resort in UK, thanks.

About the UK part: I feel like the UK already "physically" left the EU in the moment to some degree when the Union Jack flag got taken down in Brussels. But I was more focused on the big difference between the UK and the (rest of) the EU: one has 3 Trump golf resorts and no travel ban - the other has 0 resorts but is banned.

 

[djplaeskool]

lol
The more 'clarification' we get, the more racist and ineffectual this policy sounds.

 

[PJV3]

lol
The more 'clarification' we get, the more racist and ineffectual this policy sounds.

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it feels like something put forward as a suggestion weeks ago before he went into virus head in sand mode.
there's some logic to it if you could go back in time.

 

[djplaeskool]

it feels like something put forward as a suggestion weeks ago before he went into virus head in sand mode.
there's some logic to it if you could go back in time.

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Well, now I'm seeing word that it ONLY applies to foreign nationals and not US citizens and residents...

 

[Saya]

Bedlam at U.S.-bound airlines at CDG in Paris early this a.m., as Americans pay as much as $20,000 for last-minute flights.

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[PJV3]

Well, now I'm seeing word that it ONLY applies to foreign nationals and not US citizens and residents...

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I don't know what the rules are about keeping their own citizens out of the country if they haven't broken laws etc.
The whole thing is a waste of time anyway, if you time a ban right then you slow the spread by a few months at max, that time has long since passed.

 

[djplaeskool]

I don't know what the rules are about keeping their own citizens out of the country if they haven't broken laws etc.
The whole thing is a waste of time anyway, if you time a ban right then you slow the spread by a few months at max, that time has long since passed.

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Yup.
Peak "too little, too late"

 

[WhateverItTakes]

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Jeez. Family and committments aside, it'd be cheaper to just live in France for 3 months. Though I can imagine visa/Embassy processes being hell.

 

[suedester]

The point is to slow the spread so hospitals can better cope. I know we all hate Trump but let's not look at everything through such rose tinted spectacles. Reducing the number of possibly infected people into the country isn't the worst thing Trump has done by a long shot.

 

[Sphinx]

one thing I don't understand is, Flights don't appear to be getting cancelled, this isn't a ban on the flights themselves but on the people boarding them.

which makes me think that when you are in, let's say, Frankfurt trying to board a flight to Atlanta you will have to be an american citizen, otherwise boarding will be denied.

is this how it's gonna work?

it says Americans are exempt from the ban but at the same time, the whole Lufthansa crew members are German citizens...are they allowed in??

there really needs to be more info about how this is going to work.

 

[jelly]

The point is to slow the spread so hospitals can better cope. I know we all hate Trump but let's not look at everything through such rose tinted spectacles. Reducing the number of possibly infected people into the country isn't the worst thing Trump has done by a long shot.

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If that was the reason why only those, it should be the whole world more or less. Trump is just doing 'look over here' big headline to hide his mess while sticking it to something he doesn't like, the EU.