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Who is most dominant?

  • Simone Biles

    Votes: 74 31.8%
  • Serena Williams

    Votes: 84 36.1%
  • Other: please explain

    Votes: 75 32.2%

  • Total voters
    233

Slappy White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,208
Well, to be fair, or unfair rather. You can't really compare Serena to the men's players. She can't compete against them.
I'm not comparing her to men's players rather than comparing the competition of who they have played. Roger has had the most prolific men's tennis career ever playing during his best years against the likes of Nadal and Djokovic. That's like if Tiger, Nicklaus, and Palmer all played at the same time. And for the record I believe Serena in her prime could compete against and beat a lot of the men's players.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
The NFL is rigged for parity based on its salary cap implementation. When you have a QB of Tom Brady's caliber accounting for less than 13% of your cap total in every single season except one (2006), it's a massive advantage. That's why so many pundits talk about making that SB push with QBs on rookie deals, because you can spend elsewhere.

When you combine that with the overall ability that Bill Belichick has given the Patriots when it comes to negotiating with free agents and trade acquisitions where in he essentially tells players "Play for the Patriots at $X for the chance to win a Super Bowl or move on" and results in those players buying in and playing for far less than expected salary rate, it further provides that team an advantage in the salary cap era.

This is an advantage no other team in the NFL has. The New England Patriots as a franchise are a complete anomaly in what they're able to do within the salary cap. Howie Roseman, who is often considered one of the best FO execs in football, is a salary cap genius in his own regard, but he's not able to get players to go to Philly at discounted rates at the pace at which Belichick is able to.

It is absolutely a counterpoint because of how it explains dominance in a team sport. Tom Brady touches the ball on every offensive snap and having a team built around him that is only possible by the dominance created by the salary cap maneuverability they have is a contextual counterpoint in regarding him as the "most dominant athlete" in his profession.

Again, not discrediting Tom Brady at all, but situational context matters in team sports. Barry Sanders in Dallas in the 90s would have been like Bo Jackson in Tecmo.

Explaining dominance is not a counterpoint against dominance.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
So I know shit and all about gymnastics, for real, I watch it once ever 4 years if the Olympics is in a reasonable timezone.
But I got to watch Simone Biles in person, and the difference of athleticism is just fucking ridiculous, even for someone like me who don't know shit about the sport, even in the dumb way gymnastic meets are set up and even from pretty average seats.
Now yeah, Serena dominated the shit out of tennis for a long ass time, but it's not like there are basic tennis moves that only she can do. Simone Biles? she's breaking the sport. You're gonna look in a couple of decades on some weird ass things in the way gymnastics is scored and would be like "oh right, we were doing it because Simone Biles, I remember now".
Go and see her, it's quite doable in the US.

p.s.
I think to answer the "most dominant' question seriously, you need to first accurately define what dominant means, and I don't feel like doing that, so I didn't.
I can easily see making an argument for another athlete.
 

GMT Master

Member
Oct 3, 2019
668
And for the record I believe Serena in her prime could compete against and beat a lot of the men's players.

Believing it doesn't make it true. She could not compete at all against even far lower ranked opponents on the men's side. Obviously in their primes as well.

Serena wouldn't be anything if she had to compete against men.

Biles on the other hand would still be absolutely incredible.
 

Deleted member 31333

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,216
I assume you meant most dominant women athlete based on the poll. I had to vote Serena since I had no idea who Biles was until I entered this thread.
 

TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,966
1482332135_503284_1482333344_noticia_normal.jpg
 
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Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,381
I'm not comparing her to men's players rather than comparing the competition of who they have played. Roger has had the most prolific men's tennis career ever playing during his best years against the likes of Nadal and Djokovic. That's like if Tiger, Nicklaus, and Palmer all played at the same time. And for the record I believe Serena in her prime could compete against and beat a lot of the men's players.

The Williams sisters both played the #203 men's player in the world in 1998. Two choice quotes after he swept them both:

"I didn't know it would be that difficult. I played shots that would have been winners on the women's circuit and he got to them very easily," said Serena.

"They wouldn't have had a chance against anyone inside the top 500 because today I played like someone ranked 600th to keep it fun," was Braasch's assessment.
 

Slappy White

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,208
The Williams sisters both played the #203 men's player in the world in 1998. Two choice quotes after he swept them both:

"I didn't know it would be that difficult. I played shots that would have been winners on the women's circuit and he got to them very easily," said Serena.

"They wouldn't have had a chance against anyone inside the top 500 because today I played like someone ranked 600th to keep it fun," was Braasch's assessment.
Well to be fair Serena was only about 17 in 1998.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
Wow this is such a tough choice but I will say given the margin for error and relatively short prime of a gymnast that I would have to give it to Simone Biles. What she has been able to accomplish these last few years have been absolutely amazing and likely something we'll never see again.
Yeah this is part of what makes it so hard to choose a top athlete. Depending on your sports and skills the demands are different, the training is different, the length of career is different, and the potential to even be seen as dominant (in team sports versus single competition) is totally different. Biles and Williams are definitely top athletes but it's foolish to me to try and decide the absolute top.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,129
Simone Biles has 25 World medals. This thread will look different after she dominates in Tokyo again and retires after.
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,959
Biles is pretty old to be doing the things she's doing. If she can keep it up through next year's olympics, then she has to be in the conversation. A lot of gymnasts retire at the ripe old age of 18-20 and she's 22. It's just hard to compare gymnastics to other sports because they might have the shortest "window" of all sports.
 

Tapiozona

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,253
He's not even close to the best rock climber in the world. Just has the biggest balls.

"I was never, like, a bad climber [as a kid], but I had never been a great climber, either," he says. "There were a lot of other climbers who were much, much stronger than me, who started as kids and were, like, instantly freakishly strong – like they just have a natural gift. And that was never me. I just loved climbing, and I've been climbing all the time ever since, so I've naturally gotten better at it, but I've never been gifted."[8] "
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
This is true. Is there even a male equivalent anywhere close to her? In terms of actual ability? I don't think so. Obviously women's gymnastics gets more attention than men's, but she is insane.

Serena is up there for sure, but her dominance doesn't stand up quite as much because you have guys like Federer, Nadal, and now Djokovic.

I'd have to go with Phelps or Bolt like people above have mentioned.
Afaik men and women do different gymnastic events.

She wouldnt be nearly as good as the men at their events and they wouldnt be as good at hers.
 

Bladelaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,715
At the moment Serena but Simone's catching up quick. Serena's body of work is the main differentiator but I could easily see the argument for Simone.
 

Deception

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,431
Yeah this is part of what makes it so hard to choose a top athlete. Depending on your sports and skills the demands are different, the training is different, the length of career is different, and the potential to even be seen as dominant (in team sports versus single competition) is totally different. Biles and Williams are definitely top athletes but it's foolish to me to try and decide the absolute top.
The biggest difference for me is how large is the margin for the error for each athlete? For Serena, if she has a bad set then she has an opportunity to recover and has done so repeatedly in her career. If Simone has a bad routine, well there goes her gold medal. She almost always has to be perfect on the biggest stages and so far has done so nearly every single time, and for a longer period of time than other historically dominant gymnasts.
 

DPT120

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,531
They sort of feel like they're from different generations to me. I'll go with Leo Messi but it's very hard to directly compare athletes in individual sports to team sports. If we limit it to individual results, Serena and Michael Phelps are hard to top. Simone has some years to go.
I was going to say Messi as well. He's one of my favorite athletes
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
He's not even close to the best rock climber in the world. Just has the biggest balls.

"I was never, like, a bad climber [as a kid], but I had never been a great climber, either," he says. "There were a lot of other climbers who were much, much stronger than me, who started as kids and were, like, instantly freakishly strong – like they just have a natural gift. And that was never me. I just loved climbing, and I've been climbing all the time ever since, so I've naturally gotten better at it, but I've never been gifted."[8] "

If Alex can keep doing stuff like what he did at El Capitan I don't think whether he started late or was the "strongest" even matters. He's attempting stuff that scares the shit out of a lot of other climbers and makes it almost look effortless.
 

Tapiozona

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,253
If Alex can keep doing stuff like what he did at El Capitan I don't think whether he started late or was the "strongest" even matters. He's attempting stuff that scares the shit out of a lot of other climbers and makes it almost look effortless.
Still doesn't make him the best climber in the world. He's simply daring and most climbers, while completely able to do what he did, don't feel the need to risk death. He's not even in the same conversation as the best climbers who are able to climb things he wouldn't even attempt.

Alex has spoken multiple times about his place in the climbing world. He's got his niche and it's great but he's not a top tier climber like Adam Ondra, etc. Speaking of which. I highly recommend watching his youtube channel. Here's a great video of him and Chris Schwarma climbing a 9b+, something only 2 people have ever done in history. This is true climbing greatness.

Adam is also the only person on earth to climb a 9c (Silence). Here he's climbing the hardest section of it....
 
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HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Still doesn't make him the best climber in the world. He's simply daring and most climbers, while completely able to do what he did, don't feel the need to risk death. He's not even in the same conversation as the best climbers who are able to climb things he wouldn't even attempt.

Alex has spoken multiple times about his place in the climbing world. He's got his niche and it's great but he's not a top tier climber like Adam Ondra, etc. Speaking of which. I highly recommend watching his youtube channel. Here's a great video of him and Chris Schwarma climbing a 9b+, something only 2 people have ever done in history. This is true climbing greatness.

Adam is also the only person on earth to climb a 9c (Silence). Here he's climbing the hardest section of it....

And if he continues to absolutely dominates that arm of the sport I think his name will be in the running. A big part of this being how insanely dangerous his sport of choice is.
 

Tapiozona

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,253
And if he continues to absolutely dominates that arm of the sport I think his name will be in the running. A big part of this being how insanely dangerous his sport of choice is.
It's not even an arm of the sport. No one does it because fear of death. It's like claiming the guy who jumped out of a plane with no parachute, landing into a net, is the best and most dominant athlete in the world. What he did is insane, just like what Alex did. But it's not elite level of anything. El Capitan has been climbed by hundreds of people (if not more). Any of the world's best could easily do it faster.. they just use safety equipment and safety equipment is not a measurement of elite athleticism and dominance.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
It's not even an arm of the sport. No one does it because fear of death. It's like claiming the guy who jumped out of a plane with no parachute, landing into a net, is the best and most dominant athlete in the world. What he did is insane, just like what Alex did. But it's not elite level of anything. El Capitan has been climbed by hundreds of people (if not more). Any of the world's best could easily do it faster.. they just use safety equipment and safety equipment is not a measurement of elite athleticism and dominance.

Well when they do it faster without climbing gear you let me know about it.