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Most dominant athlete of this generation? Simone Biles or Serena Williams?

Who is most dominant?

  • Simone Biles

    Votes: 74 31.8%

  • Serena Williams

    Votes: 84 36.1%

  • Other: please explain

    Votes: 75 32.2%
  • Total voters
    233
SixtyFourBlades

SixtyFourBlades

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,864
I voted for Serena, because she has been a dominant force in Tennis for such a long time now.

However there are many compelling arguments being made for everyone else like Phelps, Bolt, and Biles. Either one of them could get the top honestly. Particularly Phelps who has won the most medals by any athlete in Olympic history. That's iconic.

That one Olympic where Bolt shattered every world record for running that he participated in? That's iconic.

Biles being the single most winningest gymnast in history, and even having moves named after her that only she can pull off? That's iconic. She has dual citizenship with Belize too, but I didn't want my bias to show. Biles' accomplishments are not claimed by Belize (she clearly competes for America), but we do have a soft spot for someone with Belizean connections. :)
 
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GMT Master

GMT Master

Member
Oct 3, 2019
668
Slappy White said:
I don't know you can compare anyone with Simone she's just extraordinary. In tennis I'm more impressed with Roger Federer than Serena only because he's had to compete against Nadal and Djokovic during the same time frame and those two are on the Mt. Rushmore of tennis.
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Well, to be fair, or unfair rather. You can't really compare Serena to the men's players. She can't compete against them.
 
TheMan

TheMan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,264
Simone has the most medals for any gymnast ever, can Serena say the same about tennis tournaments?
 
Lobster Roll

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,386
The average career for an NFL Quarterback is 4 to 5 years. Tom Brady has been the best quarterback in the league for nearly two decades and has won six Super Bowls, the most recent one being last year at the age of 41. He's leading his team to a 6-0 start in 2019 and will likely play in another Super Bowl as the end of the year. Dude is in his 40s and is still the best at his craft. He may not put up the gaudiest of numbers and his athleticism has certainly declined, but no stat in the league compares to that "W" column.
 

VectorPrime

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
11,781
Simone has had fewer opportunities due to the nature of her sport but she's dominated in literally every single event she's competed. Phelps and Serena still lost sometimes, especially Serena since she's been in countless tournaments. Simone by default is more dominant because she's literally never lost.
 
UltimateHigh

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,500
I'm not gonna make a judgment either way buuuuut simone biles absolutely obliterates her competition, like that shit isn't even close.
 
abellwillring

abellwillring

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,939
Austin, TX
They sort of feel like they're from different generations to me. I'll go with Leo Messi but it's very hard to directly compare athletes in individual sports to team sports. If we limit it to individual results, Serena and Michael Phelps are hard to top. Simone has some years to go.
 
Jarrod38

Jarrod38

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,680
Mayweather should be the true answer. To go 50 and 0 and only been knocked down once says something.
 
Aiervon

Aiervon

Digital Strategist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
165
Dallas
If we're judging between these two, Biles.

Also, lol @ Tom Brady mentions. Dude isn't even the best QB of his generation, let alone the most dominant athlete. Football is a team sport and the fact they've played in the AFC East (Jets, Bills, Dolphins for the last 20 years), with the best coach in the history of the game, gives Tom Brady a heavy advantage over everyone else (free playoff pass, almost guaranteed bye each year, etc). Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, etc,...all win 6+ Super Bowls in New England. Wins are a team stat. Attributing Ws to QBs is as foolish as attributing Ws to pitchers in baseball. And yes, Tom Brady is one of the best to ever play the position, but most dominant falls short.

Matt Cassel went 10-5 in NE after Brady was injured.
 
Masoyama

Masoyama

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,648
Simone Biles without a doubt. The level of consistency alone is just insane and other wordly. She might be the best gymnast in the history of the world.
 
Lobster Roll

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever
Member
Sep 24, 2019
34,386
Aiervon said:
If we're judging between these two, Biles.

Also, lol @ Tom Brady mentions. Dude isn't even the best QB of his generation, let alone the most dominant athlete. Football is a team sport and the fact they've played in the AFC East (Jets, Bills, Dolphins for the last 20 years), with the best coach in the history of the game, gives Tom Brady a heavy advantage over everyone else (free playoff pass, almost guaranteed bye each year, etc). Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, etc,...all win 6+ Super Bowls in New England. Wins are a team stat. Attributing Ws to QBs is as foolish as attributing Ws to pitchers in baseball. And yes, Tom Brady is one of the best to ever play the position, but most dominant falls short.

Matt Cassel went 10-5 in NE after Brady was injured.
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People discrediting Tom Brady has been the "Nintendoomed" version of a sports hot take for 20 years now.
 
Calamari41

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,099
Lobster Roll said:
People discrediting Tom Brady has been the "Nintendoomed" version of a sports hot take for 20 years now.
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It's just really difficult to assign this kind of title to someone in a team sport. It's much simpler when it's one-on-one, or just the athlete alone vs the standing world record.

Would Brady be considered the greatest of all time if he were plugged into the Browns lineup all these years?

I say this as an actual Tom Brady fan who roots for his success.
 
Mr_Antimatter

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,571
Jarrod38 said:
Mayweather should be the true answer. To go 50 and 0 and only been knocked down once says something.
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He's the most infuriatingly disciplined fighter i've ever seen. He know the rules and how to exploit them for maximum points.

He's no fun to watch as a result though. No one really seems to have an idea on how to counter his style as of yet.
 
Boiled Goose

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
Aiervon said:
If we're judging between these two, Biles.

Also, lol @ Tom Brady mentions. Dude isn't even the best QB of his generation, let alone the most dominant athlete. Football is a team sport and the fact they've played in the AFC East (Jets, Bills, Dolphins for the last 20 years), with the best coach in the history of the game, gives Tom Brady a heavy advantage over everyone else (free playoff pass, almost guaranteed bye each year, etc). Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, etc,...all win 6+ Super Bowls in New England. Wins are a team stat. Attributing Ws to QBs is as foolish as attributing Ws to pitchers in baseball. And yes, Tom Brady is one of the best to ever play the position, but most dominant falls short.

Matt Cassel went 10-5 in NE after Brady was injured.
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You can argue the team angle and you can argue coach, the rest is just LOL. That said, the 20 year dynasty with an ever changing cast of coaches and players makes it even less likely and more impressive in some ways.

Look at Brady's record vs other divisions.
Look at not only wins but individual records.
Cassel missed playoffs and previous year Pats went undefeated.

All of these talking points are basically invalid except in the fantasy land of haters.

All that said, it's Serena. With individual sports there's no ambiguity.
 
Acorn

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
Seeing the answers in this thread makes me realise just how many incredible god like athletes we have around right now.
 
Aiervon

Aiervon

Digital Strategist
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Oct 27, 2017
165
Dallas
Calamari41 said:
It's just really difficult to assign this kind of title to someone in a team sport. It's much simpler when it's one-on-one, or just the athlete alone vs the standing world record.

Would Brady be considered the greatest of all time if he were plugged into the Browns lineup all these years?

I say this as an actual Tom Brady fan who roots for his success.
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100%.

What Brady is doing at his age is unbelievable, but it's also aided by the fact he's coached by the greatest coaching mind ever. Belichick and the team he has surrounded himself with is a genius at creating game plans, playing the matchups, and taking advantage of the other team's weaknesses. All of these things help set Tom up to be as successful as he is. Tom Brady still has to go out there and execute, but the advantages of playing for the Patriots shouldn't be overlooked in the overall context of his greatness as a player.

His Randy Moss season where he threw 50 TDs was phenomenal and a great display of his overall ability as a quarterback in the NFL. Had he had someone like Moss his entire career, his numbers would be even more insane -- and I think that matters too when it comes to the context of his overall stat line (which is likely undervalued, as shocking as that is).
 
Ducarmel

Ducarmel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,363
Simone looks like she will be remembered forever for what she is doing in her sport. Serena arguably also changed woman's tennis and probably will go down as the best ever too.

I guess I would give it to Serena while Simone is clearly better than her competition in tennis you have to beat your opponent, no judge is going to going to give or take a win from you.
 

Michaelandavinci

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
764
No Roger Federer but yet Serena Williams is mentioned ? Is this a joke? When you talks about dominant in tennis no one is more dominant than Roger Federer period. Dominant implies consistency and no one is more consistent than Federer. The guy has 22 consecutive grand slam semifinals and 10 consecutive grand slam finals. I don't ever see Serena getting anywhere near that. You might argue that Serena has more grand slam than Roger but you must take into account that Nadal and Djokovic whom is considered to be two of the all time great is always breathing down Roger's neck throughout the year.
 
Aiervon

Aiervon

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Boiled Goose said:
You can argue the team angle and you can argue coach, the rest is just LOL. That said, the 20 year dynasty with an ever changing cast of coaches and players makes it even less likely and more impressive in some ways.

Look at Brady's record vs other divisions.
Look at not only wins but individual records.
Cassel missed playoffs and previous year Pats went undefeated.

All of these talking points are basically invalid except in the fantasy land of haters.

All that said, it's Serena. With individual sports there's no ambiguity.
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Tom Brady's record vs other divisions are also relevant to the coaching and team angle. Take into account it's a salary cap league and Brady often plays for a middle-of-the-road salary, allowing money to be spent elsewhere. Take into account the fact other players often take discounted salaries to play for the Patriots in order to have a chance to win a Super Bowl. All of those things contribute to being able to create a 20-year dynasty with a changing cast of coaches and players.

While the coaches changes, Belichick's circle of trust really hasn't. Ernie Adams and Sean Harrington are a huge part of this and 98% of football fans have no idea who they even are.
 
Boiled Goose

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
Freakzilla said:
How not? Isn't he one of the most dominant athletes of all time?
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He hasn't been dominant. He's been playing at a consistently high level for a very long time, but to dominate a sport you have to win. That's what domination means. Lebron played in an era where the Spurs and the Warriors had dynasties. That's the opposite of domination.
 

Deleted member 2809

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Michaelandavinci said:
No Roger Federer but yet Serena Williams is mentioned ? Is this a joke? When you talks about dominant in tennis no one is more dominant than Roger Federer period. Dominant implies consistency and no one is more consistent than Federer. The guy has 22 consecutive grand slam semifinals and 10 consecutive grand slam finals. I don't ever see Serena getting anywhere near that. You might argue that Serena has more grand slam than Roger but you must take into account that Nadal and Djokovic whom is considered to be two of the all time great is always breathing down Roger's neck throughout the year.
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consistent at failing at roland garros every year maybe
 

Mr.Awesome

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
3,077
I would say Phelps. Women athletes can be hard to judge in this regard since their sports respective talent pools tend not to go very deep.
 
Boclfon479

Boclfon479

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,831
Serena Williams May have been at it longer at this point, but Simone Biles had points taken away from a move of hers because she did something too well.....


That's saying something about her skill.
 
HStallion

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Ducarmel said:
Simone looks like she will be remembered forever for what she is doing in her sport. Serena arguably also changed woman's tennis and probably will go down as the best ever too.

I guess I would give it to Serena while Simone is clearly better than her competition in tennis you have to beat your opponent, no judge is going to going to give or take a win from you.
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You should pay more attention to sports that are judged as they can easily be the difference from a win or a loss.
 
Boiled Goose

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
Aiervon said:
Tom Brady's record vs other divisions are also relevant to the coaching and team angle. Take into account it's a salary cap league and Brady often plays for a middle-of-the-road salary, allowing money to be spent elsewhere. Take into account the fact other players often take discounted salaries to play for the Patriots in order to have a chance to win a Super Bowl. All of those things contribute to being able to create a 20 years dynasty with a changing cast of coaches and players.

While the coaches changes, Belichick's circle of trust really hasn't. Ernie Adam and Sean Harrington as a huge part of this and 98% of football fans have no idea who they even are.
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So at least you've moved on from some bad arguments and backed up into the more valid coaching angle.

The salary argument is dumb and irrelevant. In salary cap team sports that's something that could explain or allow domination, but it's not a counterpoint against domination.

The NFL is rigged for parity. A 20 year dynasty is even more impressive
 
SneakersSO

SneakersSO

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Oct 24, 2017
1,353
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Bolt, Phelps, Biles, and Mayweather Jr. have all had unbelievable accomplishments in unbelievably competitive fields.

Those 4 top handily top Serena. Biles, is climbing though - I would love to see how her career continues to develop over a few more years. I don't know if Phelps will be topped in my lifetime though.
 
Freakzilla

Freakzilla

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
5,710
Boiled Goose said:
He hasn't been dominant. He's been playing at a consistently high level for a very long time, but to dominate a sport you have to win. That's what domination means. Lebron played in an era where the Spurs and the Warriors had dynasties. That's the opposite of domination.
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That doesn't make him a lesser athlete. Or worse at his sport.
 
Aiervon

Aiervon

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Boiled Goose said:
So at least you've moved on from some bad arguments and backed up into the more valid coaching angle.

The salary argument is dumb and irrelevant. In salary cap team sports that's something that could explain or allow domination, but it's not a counterpoint against domination.

The NFL is rigged for parity. A 20 year dynasty is even more impressive
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The NFL is rigged for parity based on its salary cap implementation. When you have a QB of Tom Brady's caliber accounting for less than 13% of your cap total in every single season except one (2006), it's a massive advantage. That's why so many pundits talk about making that SB push with QBs on rookie deals, because you can spend elsewhere.

When you combine that with the overall ability that Bill Belichick has given the Patriots when it comes to negotiating with free agents and trade acquisitions where in he essentially tells players "Play for the Patriots at $X for the chance to win a Super Bowl or move on" and results in those players buying in and playing for far less than expected salary rate, it further provides that team an advantage in the salary cap era.

This is an advantage no other team in the NFL has. The New England Patriots as a franchise are a complete anomaly in what they're able to do within the salary cap. Howie Roseman, who is often considered one of the best FO execs in football, is a salary cap genius in his own regard, but he's not able to get players to go to Philly at discounted rates at the pace at which Belichick is able to.

It is absolutely a counterpoint because of how it explains dominance in a team sport. Tom Brady touches the ball on every offensive snap and having a team built around him that is only possible by the dominance created by the salary cap maneuverability they have is a contextual counterpoint in regarding him as the "most dominant athlete" in his profession.

Again, not discrediting Tom Brady at all, but situational context matters in team sports. Barry Sanders in Dallas in the 90s would have been like Bo Jackson in Tecmo.
 
EN1GMA

EN1GMA

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Nov 7, 2017
3,278
Lobster Roll said:
The average career for an NFL Quarterback is 4 to 5 years. Tom Brady has been the best quarterback in the league for nearly two decades and has won six Super Bowls, the most recent one being last year at the age of 41. He's leading his team to a 6-0 start in 2019 and will likely play in another Super Bowl as the end of the year. Dude is in his 40s and is still the best at his craft. He may not put up the gaudiest of numbers and his athleticism has certainly declined, but no stat in the league compares to that "W" column.
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Most dominant athlete not most dominant team.

Statistically, Brady is not head and shoulders above someone like Brees over the past 19 seasons. Biles and Phelps have no one close to accomplishing what they have.
 
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