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Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,270
Thinking about North Korea always makes me sad...

Whole bunch of people living there assume this is how life is and it's the best its gonna get.

North Korea has surely got to be one of the worlds biggest combined failings. We dont even pretend to care.

NK definitely makes me question what the response to the Holocaust had been if Hitler never went to war outside of Germany.

As you say, the entire world generally just shrugs about NK. Very much a "none of my business" tone.

But how do you help a country that doesn't want and refuses to be helped? A country that barely even lets anyone in or out

1) "Country" is doing a lot of work in this post. Should say "NK Leadership".

2) I've thought about it a lot, and I personally find it repulsive, but I think the only option is to offer the Kims a way out. Get them a villa in Switzerland for life, same or better quality of life than they have now. In exchange they open up the country as a developing region under UN aid, directed by SK (maximize cultural preservation) but not United with SK (they really don't want the burden). Try to institute a govt with no strings attached.

China is a massive wrench in any plan, and I loathe the Kims getting off scot-free, but I don't see any other way. They have enough ordinance pointed at Seoul that the time to level the city is under 10 minutes, IIRC. Military engagement is out.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
This is what Bernie will bring. This is what negotiating drug prices in a normal market does. This is what pre-existing conditions leads to. Wake up sheeple.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
Honestly NK looks way better than I expected. The food looks good and plentiful, people are well dressed for the winter and the city is clean and well-maintained.

Maybe this is normal Pyongyang food, maybe. But you should know that visitors, especially visitors with huge camera rigs - are only permitted to go to certain spots and they are followed, cajoled, stopped and focused by government handlers. It wouldn't be conspiratorial to suggest that these stands were set up to look prosperous and normal by Pyongyang.
 

Empyrean Cocytus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,695
Upstate NY
Idk, my guess would be no one especially wants to go to war with a bugfuck crazy regime that's been preparing for a total war for decades, because even though it would be eventually defeated, millions would die.

Exactly. It's going to take a revolution from within to win.

Problem is that when 90% of the country believes their leader is literally God, any sort of grassroots movement is probably doomed to fail.
 

zma1013

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,674
The way it was explained to me was that if you live in Pyongyang, you're probably doing "okay", anywhere else, try not to die.
 

BasilZero

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,343
Omni
entirety of NK suffers so pyongyang can be somewhat maintained and "modern". it's where virtually all resources go

everywhere else in the country is in the stone age

Hmm this sounds like the Wano arc from one piece in which one city/town is prosperous but all the rest the people are living like they are in a prison

Also crazy that they play stuff like that...
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
Wow eerie!
But is this a new occurrence? I don't remember anyone else mentioning this before. Like the Vice guide to North Korea series, something like this would be mentioned I would think.

thanks for sharing.
Nope, it's not new. It's very well known that they wake up to creepy-ass music.
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
I'm not talking about the videos in the first post but that food stand videos. I don't know if it's normal NK or just a show in that specific place for visitors but it looks better than most 3rd world countries.
My dude, you really need to do some research on NK.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,210
Great that you can think of a few others. I suppose they might make up "one of the greatest combined failings"

You go back to 1940-50s and do something about it then.

The US wont let the Middle East breathe without launching military presence on the region.

I guess North Korea didnt matter at the time to care about 🤷‍♂️

Edit: and guess whose North Koreas biggest "friend" today.... the USA... I guess you really do make your own problems.
Are you familiar with China's supporting relationship with NK?
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
It's strictly forbidden to even go out to the country side.
It's forbidden, but there are countless videos on youtube of the tour buses driving past the towns.

Much of NK looks like you've literally been taken back hundreds of years.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,796
Honestly NK looks way better than I expected. The food looks good and plentiful, people are well dressed for the winter and the city is clean and well-maintained.
Pyongyang is a Potemkin village, a city of fake prosperity set up to improve NK's image in the rest of the world. Only preferred / favored residents are allowed to live in Pyongyang (government officials, their families, those chosen for university education, etc.). From what I remember, those who live in other parts of North Korea, which are almost universally in extreme poverty, are generally not allowed to travel to Pyongyang without official travel documents. Conversely, tourists who visit North Korea are always accompanied by a government worker who monitors what they film and interact with, and they are almost never allowed to leave Pyongyang except for a select few cultural sites.

Pyongyang is a walled garden set up for propaganda. The majority of North Korea is continuously struggling with poverty and famine. The central food distribution system broke down completely during the famine in the early 90s and never recovered. There's a big black market now outside of the capital because so many goods are routed to Pyongyang to maintain its illusion of prosperity.

Two books I recommend on the subject:
-"Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea" by Barbara Demick - a great book that focuses on what the title says - the ordinary lives of North Koreans, as told by a few who escaped and were interviewed extensively by the author. It's a very engaging read.
-"North Korea Confidential" by Daniel Tudor and James Pearson - a drier book (but still interesting) that focuses on how the economy and markets work in NK these days.

Is there any good videos from the country side of NK?

There are tons of documentaries that you can find on YouTube and elsewhere. Filming / travel isn't generally allowed outside of the touristy places so we have to rely on smuggled footage. I haven't watched any documentaries in the past few years so I don't have great up-to-date recommendations, but here are a couple I enjoyed:
North Korea: Life Inside the Secret State (Prime Video) - has footage of the countryside, from what I remember.
The Vice Travel Guide to North Korea - Mostly in Pyongyang, but does a good job of highlighting what a Potemkin village it is.
The Hermit Kingdom - follows a trip to Harlem Globetrotters took to NK a few years ago for a basketball game set up by Dennis Rodman, who is pals with Kim Jong-un. Less informative but still interesting.

You should be able to find plenty more if you search around a bit.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,210
Canada
NK just makes me sad to look at.

Not even for the obvious reasons; but any shot I see is just grey, and quiet, and sombre. It feels dead.
 

Deleted member 26398

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
706
Pyongyang is a Potemkin village, a city of fake prosperity set up to improve NK's image in the rest of the world. Only preferred / favored residents are allowed to live in Pyongyang (government officials, their families, those chosen for university education, etc.). From what I remember, those who live in other parts of North Korea, which are almost universally in extreme poverty, are generally not allowed to travel to Pyongyang without official travel documents. Conversely, tourists who visit North Korea are always accompanied by a government worker who monitors what they film and interact with, and they are almost never allowed to leave Pyongyang except for a select few cultural sites.

Pyongyang is a walled garden set up for propaganda. The majority of North Korea is continuously struggling with poverty and famine. The central food distribution system broke down completely during the famine in the early 90s and never recovered. There's a big black market now outside of the capital because so many goods are routed to Pyongyang to maintain its illusion of prosperity.

Two books I recommend on the subject:
-"Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea" by Barbara Demick - a great book that focuses on what the title says - the ordinary lives of North Koreans, as told by a few who escaped and were interviewed extensively by the author. It's a very engaging read.
-"North Korea Confidential" by Daniel Tudor and James Pearson - a drier book (but still interesting) that focuses on how the economy and markets work in NK these days.



There are tons of documentaries that you can find on YouTube and elsewhere. Filming / travel isn't generally allowed outside of the touristy places so we have to rely on smuggled footage. I haven't watched any documentaries in the past few years so I don't have great up-to-date recommendations, but here are a couple I enjoyed:
North Korea: Life Inside the Secret State (Prime Video) - has footage of the countryside, from what I remember.
The Vice Travel Guide to North Korea - Mostly in Pyongyang, but does a good job of highlighting what a Potemkin village it is.
The Hermit Kingdom - follows a trip to Harlem Globetrotters took to NK a few years ago for a basketball game set up by Dennis Rodman, who is pals with Kim Jong-un. Less informative but still interesting.

You should be able to find plenty more if you search around a bit.
Thanks. Didn't know about any of that.
 

ChubbyHuggs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,262
At first I thought someone edited the video with this music when I watched the first video, my mind was blown when I realized it actually plays there every morning.
I was just thinking that until clicking the second video. Sounds like something at the end of a classic horror/sci-fi movie. I think it's hauntingly beautiful.
 

Baladium

Banned
Apr 18, 2018
5,410
Sleep Deprivation Zone
Sounds like something at the end of a classic horror/sci-fi movie. I think it's hauntingly beautiful.
16167.jpg
 

Deleted member 12379

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,999
Thinking about North Korea always makes me sad...

Whole bunch of people living there assume this is how life is and it's the best its gonna get.

North Korea has surely got to be one of the worlds biggest combined failings. We dont even pretend to care.
nah seems ok to me. well-maintained and lots to eat. the propaganda music isn't too bad, kinda reminds me of my video games and movies!
 

Deleted member 18400

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,585
I'm not talking about the videos in the first post but that food stand videos. I don't know if it's normal NK or just a show in that specific place for visitors but it looks better than most 3rd world countries.

Look at a satellite picture of Earth at night. You will see the lights of civilization and a big glaring black hole where North Korea is. Outside of Pyonyang most of the country doesn't even have electricity or running water.

The video that is allowed to be taken by NK is heavily monitored and has to be approved. Any attempt to video things they don't want you to can earn you a one way trip to a labor prison where you will work for a few years before dying from malnutrition (no I'm not joking).

The video you are watching is straight up propaganda controlled by NK.
 

DrewFu

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
10,360
Look at a satellite picture of Earth at night. You will see the lights of civilization and a big glaring black hole where North Korea is. Outside of Pyonyang most of the country doesn't even have electricity or running water.

The video that is allowed to be taken by NK is heavily monitored and has to be approved. Any attempt to video things they don't want you to can earn you a one way trip to a labor prison where you will work for a few years before dying from malnutrition (no I'm not joking).

The video you are watching is straight up propaganda controlled by NK.
Even in Pyongyang the power goes out regularly.

Outside the city it's literally like you've traveled back to ancient Korea.
 

RisingStar

Banned
Oct 8, 2019
4,849
You can't post a video from NK without authorization and if they don't like what you film they can arrest you or just not let you in next time so I wouldn't trust videos from such creators.

And to be honest, I just... I don't know how to feel about people just making 'fun videos' that really are promoting the country. Yes, yes, citizens may be great people, but the government? It's always an issue for me. I would love to travel to China, but I don't want to support the government. Same thing with Russia.

I know some people disagree with this mindset a lot, but I definitely see where you're coming from. I'm very reluctant to visit both main land China and Russia for similar reasons as well. At least in the short to medium term.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,376
I know some people disagree with this mindset a lot, but I definitely see where you're coming from. I'm very reluctant to visit both main land China and Russia for similar reasons as well. At least in the short to medium term.
I think North Korea in particular seems to a place people go just to say they went. It always comes off as "look at how worldly I am!"

It's one of the few places on Earth where there is almost no legitimate reason to go. You're not doing business there, you're not really seeing North Korea as it's this fake space set up for outsiders, highly controlled, you're not visiting any real cultural or historical sites, no intetaction with normal citizens, and so on.
 

R0987

Avenger
Jan 20, 2018
2,828
Man... that traffic lady.

Imagine waking up every day.
Dressing up into your uniform.
And then you direct non-existent traffic. The whole day.
You remember that time you saw a car. It was years ago now.
Then, you finish your duty, go home and wonder what is the purpose of your existence.

From what i've heard being a traffic cop in NK is one of the most privileged job a north korean can have.
 

mightynine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,147
It took me a few minutes of watching the first video before I realized that's the music. I thought it was just for the aesthetic!

I wonder if it sounds like that due to the age of the recording or if it always sounded like that.
 

SABO.

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,870
... your post is nonsensical.

And yes, between just the middle east and south america, I can think of a few other issues that the US needs to deal with, and that's not including the issues that we have within the US borders.

Getting involved with North Korea would be disastrous. Like, millions dead disastrous. The US trying to liberate NK would be world war 3. It would involve South Korea, China, Russia, Britain... god it would be horrible.

It seems you're choosing to misinterpret my post but I'm not exactly sure why?

I didnt suggest we do something about North Korea now. In my post I suggested we're far too late to have any meaningful impact in that region. Especially because of the power that NK has become.

The world fucked up. They let North Korea be and 70 years later, our hands are tied as we watch a country of 25 million slowly die.
 

Riversands

Banned
Nov 21, 2017
5,669
I'd really like to visit the country someday as a tourist. But it is pretty unlikely since the entrance is only literally from china
 

Deleted member 45211

User requested account closure
Banned
Jun 19, 2018
492
From what I hear Pyongyang is definitely not a good representation for NK's actual living standard. If you go to the city's outskirts or other regions their true colors will probably show.
That's true of many countries, dictatorship or not -- Panama City and Panama, Sofia and Bulgaria, Johannesburg and South Africa, etc.