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entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,010
It can be an awkward standoff.

After only a year on the job, more young employees are approaching their managers for a promotion, asking, "All right, I'm ready. What's next?" says Christopher Kalloo of New York, who heads college relations for a big retailer. New hires have little patience with entry-level tasks, he says. "They want to help with strategy. They want to help drive the business."

Some managers say they're taken aback, wondering, "Who do these rookies think they are?"

More than 75% of Gen Z members believe they should be promoted in their first year on the job, according to a recent survey of 1,000 participants ages 18 to 23 by InsideOut Development, a workplace-coaching company. Employers see similar patterns among younger millennials in their late 20s and early....

Ruben Moreno, who is 50, says he began a few years ago to see more recruits push for titles that exceed their skill level. "The first time I ran into one of these, I thought, who does this person think they are?" says Mr. Moreno, who leads the human-resources practice in Knoxville, Tenn., for Blue Rock Search Group, an executive recruiter.

"Historically, the company taps you when they think you're ready. Today, it's, 'What nifty promotion do you have for me?' " he says. He now presents new hires with specific, step-by-step career paths, and meets with them at least quarterly to talk about their careers.

Some tips from the article:

Avoid the Entitlement Trap

To be promoted as rapidly as possible:

* Research the career paths of more experienced co-workers.

* Talk at least quarterly with your manager about your progress and goals.

* Never ask for a promotion unless you can present evidence that you've earned it.

* Seek out opportunities to learn new skills on your own.

* Find a colleague willing to mentor you and explain the workplace culture.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-of...ld-11554730098?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1

I've seen people get promoted too early and the lack people skills and competence, while others let the arrogance get to the head. Still, if you want more money, changing jobs is the best bet.
 

Viewt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,801
Chicago, IL
In certain sectors, it's very much an employee's market. Lots of people I know and work with are ready to jump to another shop if the pay/benefits/job details are more attractive. There are more jobs than people to fill them and, as a result, people are bolder about advocating for themselves.
 

Dest

Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
Coward
Jun 4, 2018
14,039
Work
I will ask for money. I am not a valuable person myself but my skillset is. I can and I will go somewhere else if they give me more money if my current employer won't.
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,010
In certain sectors, it's very much an employee's market. Lots of people I know and work with are ready to jump to another shop if the pay/benefits/job details are more attractive. There are more jobs than people to fill them and, as a result, people are bolder about advocating for themselves.
It definitely is an employee market, but entry-level employees probably have the least leverage overall.
 

Finalrush

Member
Dec 7, 2017
729
Maybe so many millenials want promotions because they're being undervalued and not because they're "entitled"?

No, that's crazy.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,014
The flip side is that more and more people have better skill sets coming into the job than years ago (education and credential creep). It's unreasonable to expect them to not be bored with menial work if many are effectively overqualified for the position.
 

QuantumZebra

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,304
I feel like this is bait to just drive-by with "entitled generation acts entitled, news at 11".

But maybe there is something to the entitlement. Maybe this generation just has more pride in their work? Or is it really illusory superiority?

Definitely true. I still see pure green programmers going through bidding wars right out of boot camps, but you're right that it's largely folks 5+ years into their careers who are drowning in options.

I see people at my companies (IT/Engineering) demanding salaries/compensations/etc. out the gate with their first jobs that I've never seen before. True.
 

meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
12,619
Well, considering many companies now expect two years' worth of work to be done in one, doesn't seem so unreasonable.
 

WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,172
Survey conducted by a place wanting to sell its advice to people just entering the workforce? Interesting.

And happy to see the Wall Street Journal get started on its ragging on the newest generation. Guess the heat is off us Millenials now.
 

Lord Fagan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,367
The smart ones will learn that the average company culture has little interest in promoting employees that do put in the time anyway, and just leave the organization around that one year mark to get a new title and a pay bump.
 

gully state

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,990
In certain sectors, it's very much an employee's market. Lots of people I know and work with are ready to jump to another shop if the pay/benefits/job details are more attractive. There are more jobs than people to fill them and, as a result, people are bolder about advocating for themselves.

What sectors are these?
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,170
I have had a promotion every year since starting my job. It's not at all unrealistic to push for promotion in this day and age.
 

Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,065
People who switch jobs semi-frequently and are aggressive in asking for raises make substantially more than their counterparts did decades ago. The current economy favors quitters and aggressive salary negotiators. I'm not entirely sure some of these attitudes are bad in sectors where it's a worker's market.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,412
Isn't there statistical evidence showing that people who demand to be paid more (mostly men), get paid more?

And aren't most entry-level employees grossly overqualified for doing entry-level tasks because of the arbitrary inflation of skills needed in job postings?

Bottom line, if I'm 19 I'm not waiting 3 years to get bumped to manager at the deli across the street from my college. If I've got a BS in CompSci I'm not fetching coffee and copies for two years at my first desk job.
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,010
What sectors are these?
Tech, sales in almost every industry. That's what I know personally. Sure there are others. I'm getting recruiters hounding all the time on LinkedIn.


Survey conducted by a place wanting to sell its advice to people just entering the workforce? Interesting.

And happy to see the Wall Street Journal get started on its ragging on the newest generation. Guess the heat is off us Millenials now.
You missed the tips! It's a useful article.

The article is also focused on managers, who will need to deal with the promotions, so they offer real strategies on how to satisfy these requests.

Here's another excerpt:

Managers at companies with flattened hierarchies, where promotions are harder to come by, are offering more lateral moves. Ali Conn, 30, says she has spent almost seven years at a software company in Chicago because her managers helped her find new challenges, including roles as a team leader and a budget adviser. "I like to feel I'm making a huge difference," says Ms. Conn, now a project manager there. "I don't want to feel stuck in a role for more than a year, feeling I haven't contributed anything."


Other employers create new titles for young workers. A 20-something man Mike Ruane placed in a sales job early last year was up front about his ambitions, asking, "What progress can I expect there?" says Mr. Ruane, a principal search consultant with M&F Talent Partners, a Chicago firm that recruits employees for suppliers of software and equipment to the legal cannabis industry. Just 13 months later, the sales rep got a small increase in his commission rate and the promotion he wanted, to lead a team. His new title would position him for a better job if he decided to change employers.

Other employers offer special recognition when employees pass the one-year mark. Tyler Do, digital marketing manager at Egnyte, a Mountain View, Calif., content-management platform for businesses, received a gift of Tazo tea with balloons. His boss, Colin Jordan, was behind the gesture, and tweeted a smiling picture of Mr. Do with the present.
 
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Deleted member 46493

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 7, 2018
5,231
If they're in tech, they can... sort of. We get promotions or raises that might as well be promotions by switching jobs every 2-3 years.
 

Plainswalker

Member
Apr 14, 2018
846
Canada
It's definitely an employee's market in a lot of fields. Employees nowadays aren't content with just sitting in the same job for 30 years with few promotions and no pay raises like previous generations are because "at least it's a job". A lot of Gen Z is better at advocating for themselves and trying to buck trends that are detrimental to progress, because for a lot of skilled workers, there are absolutely other jobs in their field and some of them probably pay more. It's partially entitlement, but it's also partially having a better knowledge of their own self-worth. For entry-level workers it might come across as entitlement or overvaluing themselves, but I can almost guarantee that they're seeing that company X across the city or across the country is paying more, so why not try?
 
Apr 24, 2018
3,605
I've had the opposite experience where most of my past bosses have told me that I deserved better than what I've gotten title/pay wise. Then, I had one boss who just royally screwed me and that unfortunately really screwed up my career trajectory.

I've been in some pretty bad situations and jumped around early in my career (terrible pay/terrible hours), so I'm sticking around in my current role as long as I can in the hopes of getting something to my liking in the future.

Only way out I see for myself is going to a top 15 business school, but I've got my work cut out for me, there...
 
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Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,975
Alternative hot take:
-Wages are so low that young workers are doing whatever they can to catch up with the success, income, and privilege their equivalents would have had with the same degree and experience in 1970-1990.
- More young workers realize feigning loyalty to a company by keeping silent and being grateful for whatever you get while you work your ass off just to be laid off before retirement doesn't get you anywhere you want to be
- More young workers realize they are needed much more than they need a company. Boomers are retiring and young workers are inspired to drive change in their communities rather than stick to years of status quo that isn't best.
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,373
I mean, every piece of advice for advancing in an office is to ask for a raise and change jobs every 2 years, and if you don't you're a sap. That might be uncouth, but if that's what market forces are encouraging, who's to blame? It's not the workers.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,946
I mean they probably went to or are going to college and are drowning in student loan debt and want to use the degree every older person in their life said was necessary and would open up so many doors for them. Sooooo yea forgive them for being a little impatient or eager to move up when they are earning $10-$14 and doing something that likely doesn't even require a high school diploma.

Alternative hot take:
-Wages are so low that young workers are doing whatever they can to catch up with the success, income, and privilege their equivalents would have had with the same degree and experience in 1970-1990.
- More young workers realize feigning loyalty to a company by keeping silent and being grateful for whatever you get while you work your ass off just to be laid off before retirement doesn't get you anywhere you want to be
- More young workers realize they are needed much more than they need a company. Boomers are retiring and young workers are inspired to drive change in their communities rather than stick to years of status quo that isn't best.

Also this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
Blue collar, fulltime student

Got promoted 3 times last summer

Literally told the head honcho in February when I came back for some shifts in spring break that I wanted to be a bossman

Fuck waiting, I want a challenge and I want to climb this ladder
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,010
Alternative hot take:
-Wages are so low that young workers are doing whatever they can to catch up with the success, income, and privilege their equivalents would have had with the same degree and experience in 1970-1990.
- More young workers realize feigning loyalty to a company by keeping silent and being grateful for whatever you get while you work your ass off just to be laid off before retirement doesn't get you anywhere you want to be
- More young workers realize they are needed much more than they need a company. Boomers are retiring and young workers are inspired to drive change in their communities rather than stick to years of status quo that isn't best.
Wages are rising, but the issue is student loans, which create more financial pressures.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Damn maybe if salaries and student loans and healthcare were all reasonable this would be something to get upset over and shake your fists at the damn entitled kids.
 

Chrno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,591
I'm a millennial and I subscribe to this mindset. It's what got me promoted at the beginning of my second year.
 

BDS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,845
Companies are hiring thirsty young employees by offering them offensively low, unlivable salaries and no room for growth or expanding their knowledge and then acting surprised when these employees jump ship for a promotion at a better company.

I work in IT and I'm being underpaid right now which was something I accepted when I was hired because I was getting valuable experience and opportunities to learn new things. But when I hit the ceiling of my ability to do new things at this company, while continuing to amass certifications and education, I'm going to jump ship unless they offer me a new position. I know what my actual worth will be. There is no value in being loyal to a company. Loyalty doesn't pay my bills.
 

giancarlo123x

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,361
I put in the work, give me what I want
giphy.gif
 
Nov 9, 2017
290
Alternative hot take:
-Wages are so low that young workers are doing whatever they can to catch up with the success, income, and privilege their equivalents would have had with the same degree and experience in 1970-1990.
- More young workers realize feigning loyalty to a company by keeping silent and being grateful for whatever you get while you work your ass off just to be laid off before retirement doesn't get you anywhere you want to be
- More young workers realize they are needed much more than they need a company. Boomers are retiring and young workers are inspired to drive change in their communities rather than stick to years of status quo that isn't best.
1000% this. I'd go even further and say areas where everything increases at double or even triple the rate than their wages is a huge factor.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,120
Limburg
If more companies gave their workers ways to become shareholders easily, then I think some of this could be mitigated. But yeah don't shit on young people just because they're inexperienced. Some people are ready for more and hungry to make it happen. Give em a chance.
 

Jarmel

The Jackrabbit Always Wins
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,297
New York
Fuck that, don't want to pay me or give me interesting work then time to find a new job elsewhere. No reason to stay in a dead-end job for X years.
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,010
If more companies gave their workers ways to become shareholders easily, then I think some of this could be mitigated. But yeah don't shit on young people just because they're inexperienced. Some people are ready for more and hungry to make it happen. Give em a chance.
Where are they getting shit on? Managers are just asking for the receipts.

Usually, managers need approvals from higher-ups for promotion considerations. It's not a siloed decision.
 

LifeLine

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,779
Always be on the job search and as soon as you get a better offer ask for a promotion or walk out.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,210
I'm 100% on board with this. Don't wait for a company to recognize you. Demand recognition. IFbyou aren't getting it and another company is giving you that recognition with a bigger position and pay, take it. Being loyal and "waiting your turn" guarantees you nothing.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,102
As a manager I can definitely attest to this in real life, but the response seems bizarre.

"All right, I'm ready. What's next?"

"They want to help with strategy. They want to help drive the business."

That doesn't say entitlement to me. It doesn't merit a "Who do they think they are?" response.

They're excited. They're probably over educated for what they're doing. They want to help. They're ambitious. They're just not drones.

It can be hard for my business because we're small. So there are things ambitious hires can help with even quickly, but not a ton since we only have few positions.

Get creative and nurture them. They could turn into huge assets.
 

Pirateluigi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,866
I read this exact story ten years ago, almost word for word, about millenials. It was bullshit "the youth are lazy / entitled" then and it's likely just as bullshit now.
 

Deleted member 8752

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,122
Sometimes promotions take the place of generous raises. I think it's why so many people get promoted within 2 years after graduating college these days. Companies find that it's easier to promot than it is to increase wages to a liveable standard.