Did y'all not play world or even look at it there are constantly respawning points to make hot/cold drinks. Even if you didn't want to do that if you already had bought some and they were in your box they went with you to the camp.
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Monster Hunter Rise demo impressions thread (update with new mission out now)
- Thread starter Deleted member 10737
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Man, I dislike the hot drink thing. I get streamlining stuff like pickaxes and whetstones and picking up a map at the start of each quest, but hot and cold are essentially environmental status effects that require a corresponding item just like any kind of blight. We can already fast travel back to base camp to access storage making inventory caps much less meaningful.
If you really want to sand the edges off more than World, just go the Whetstone route and make it like, a magical Wyverian Hot/Cold Water Bottle that never runs out. Like, if you're arguing that topping yourself off every so often is just pointless busywork, then you could flip this and argue that there's no point in having inventory caps or weapon sharpness degradation at all.
Then again I'm a curmudgeon who thinks we should still have Paintballs, so.
If you really want to sand the edges off more than World, just go the Whetstone route and make it like, a magical Wyverian Hot/Cold Water Bottle that never runs out. Like, if you're arguing that topping yourself off every so often is just pointless busywork, then you could flip this and argue that there's no point in having inventory caps or weapon sharpness degradation at all.
Then again I'm a curmudgeon who thinks we should still have Paintballs, so.
I mean on old games, funnily enough I liked Hot / Cold drink on World, always making sure to bring the right one and with auto craft and fast gathering I liked getting them from the flowers and such that were along the way, it is playing GU that made me despise them, small annoyance for inconvenience sake.
Because the whole point of the discussion about their removal comes from "New / Classic" MH feel?
Can't say I'll miss Hot/Cold drinks. It's one of those things veterans might miss in a way that inevitably boils down to tradition for tradition's sake. I'll bet there isn't a single newcomer here who thinks they're missing out on the true MH experience by not having to manage their inventory on top of gear and pets.
I dislike the removal of Cold/Hot Drinks as symptom of an overall trend of stripping newer Monster Hunter titles of alternative ways to lose other than carting thrice, like monsters depleting the player of ressources like items or time, more than for their own sake. Drinks themselves indeed aren't very important, but keeping and finding interesting means to stress the prep-work before a hunt is.
I'd argue that the latter is going to eventually come up, now that weapon sharpening is as easy as getting back on your dog and sharpening there when you need it. You don't even to stay in one spot to sharpen, anymore, unless you went (dual) cat(s) or no pets.
But hell, I'm all for them taking a serious look on inventory management. Then again, I'm one of those who doesn't look forward to the inevitable permanent loss of four slots once the Armor/Power charms/talons rear their heads.
Why do some people want everything to be free? If you want to have attack and defense buffs you should have to have a balance for them otherwise they literally serve 0 purpose beyond power creep. You should 100% lose slots for increased flexibiluty or power.
Otherwise yeah, sharpening is dumb and should be gone so should losing stamina and potions should be unlimited etc etc.
Otherwise yeah, sharpening is dumb and should be gone so should losing stamina and potions should be unlimited etc etc.
I disagree, it required players to think about what they needed for a hunt. A power charm, hot drinks, traps, tranqs, steaks, potions, whetstone, pickaxe/net in case you start at a good resource spot to your skills, debuff-cures and specialist stuff like flashbombs all fought for limited space. Now you don't need to plan ahead about any of that stuff and can restock at will, it's removed a small part of the game i enjoyed, which was preparing for the hunt. Most hunts in ice locations had a couple of hot drinks in the supply box anyway, I don't think I've ever quit a hunt due to forgetting them.
You misunderstand.
I'd rather the game to do more to encourage a variety of playstyles, rather than simply throw out more of "here, another DPS thing to occupy a slot in your inventory or armor". So, in other words, I'd rather those charms/talons to be gone, entirely.
World and Iceborne, especially, was so geared towards Attack/Critical buffs, that it got to be droll if you wanted to experiment. I'd rather not see that same type of thing here, if at all possible.
Honesty the only QoL change I can say I actively dislike is the gathering changes. Infinite pickaxes and nets is fine, getting all your items from interacting with the gathering spot once feels a bit too streamlined.
Inventory space was very competitive in older games so I tried to cycle items in and out as necessary, but it resulting too many 'Oh I forgot x' moments so I ended up keeping my inventory mostly static, with nullberries, hot/cold drinks, antidotes etc becoming permanent residents in my inventory regardless if they were needed or not. The world system makes it much easier to cater my inventory, with never needing to be concerned about forgetting anything.
I don't mind dealing with blights/statuses since they aren't just an annoyance to deal with, but also punishment when the player gets greedy or makes a mistake. Which means how often you deal with them varies depending on how familiar you are with the monster.
Temperature however is an inconvenience that is always in effect just because.
The only difference between fighting Tigrex in Wildspire vs Hoarfrost is the Hoarfrost fight will have an annoying pop up once every 5 mins.
I don't mind dealing with blights/statuses since they aren't just an annoyance to deal with, but also punishment when the player gets greedy or makes a mistake. Which means how often you deal with them varies depending on how familiar you are with the monster.
Temperature however is an inconvenience that is always in effect just because.
The only difference between fighting Tigrex in Wildspire vs Hoarfrost is the Hoarfrost fight will have an annoying pop up once every 5 mins.
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Hot drinks was 100 % expected. They were just placed at the start of the map in World, completely pointless since you pretty much always had access to them for free.
Having to prepare was a huge part of the draw for me, as was the well balanced combat. Both are gone now, so I guess the series is not for me anymore. Is there anything that is even remotely similar?
Having to prepare was a huge part of the draw for me, as was the well balanced combat. Both are gone now, so I guess the series is not for me anymore. Is there anything that is even remotely similar?
Maybe "balanced" isn't the right word, English is my second language. I am thinking of the way the hunter is now far more powerful, compared to the monster.
In World, the monsters are completely dominated by the hunter, and Rise seem to lean into this even more. There are few exceptions in IB, such as Raging Brachy, but then we are talking monsters near the very end of the game.
Also, the addition of input buffers (in the same sense as in fighting games) and the option to cancel any recovery frames of a move shifts balance towards reaction rather than thinking ahead.
Example: I attack with gunlance in 3U I can only evade out of the first few recovery frames. I need to know, before I attack, if I want to evade out of it or not. If I try to react, I will be too late and will be locked into recovery. In World I can evade out of any recovery frame, allowing the player to react to what happens.
This and other minute changes to controls shifts the balance and style of combat. I prefer the older system, even though I agree that it was more clunky than the later iterations.
In World, the monsters are completely dominated by the hunter, and Rise seem to lean into this even more. There are few exceptions in IB, such as Raging Brachy, but then we are talking monsters near the very end of the game.
Also, the addition of input buffers (in the same sense as in fighting games) and the option to cancel any recovery frames of a move shifts balance towards reaction rather than thinking ahead.
Example: I attack with gunlance in 3U I can only evade out of the first few recovery frames. I need to know, before I attack, if I want to evade out of it or not. If I try to react, I will be too late and will be locked into recovery. In World I can evade out of any recovery frame, allowing the player to react to what happens.
This and other minute changes to controls shifts the balance and style of combat. I prefer the older system, even though I agree that it was more clunky than the later iterations.
I've never felt like hot drinks (and cold drinks to a slightly lesser extent) were ever an interesting, challenging, or particularly fun aspect of the games, so zero issue with either or both being gone. I agree it makes no sense for them to be around with item restocking being a thing, but even if inventory was still limited I'd be happy to see hot drinks gone. Drink one in between moving from zone to zone when a monster runs. Congrats there's no further strategy or thought needed. I like it even less than consumable pickaxes and bug nets.
Comparing it to sharpness feels kind of disingenuous to me, because sharpness changing is something that happens as a natural result of hunting and a change in sharpness can often force a change in tactics, between potential damage losses and altering where you can or can't target on a monster without bouncing. Sharpness spread is used as part of weapon balancing. Hot and cold drinks offer comparatively little in comparison.
If you really want the inventory space thing to be an issue, then rather than drinks just make like...hot and cold stones. Or make the environmental effects less punishing upfront but make environmental protection an armor skill available in multiple sets, so players have to decide if it's worth adjusting their gear before venturing into those biomes. Or include more areas in a map that provide temporary protections, like the hot springs in Iceborne's Hoarfrost Reach. There are a number of ways they could keep the maps challenging and interesting without boiling down to having to stop for two seconds, maybe twice in an average hunt, to drink. It's a pathetically low-engagement mechanic and if that's the best they wanted to do with it, then it's better off gone.
Comparing it to sharpness feels kind of disingenuous to me, because sharpness changing is something that happens as a natural result of hunting and a change in sharpness can often force a change in tactics, between potential damage losses and altering where you can or can't target on a monster without bouncing. Sharpness spread is used as part of weapon balancing. Hot and cold drinks offer comparatively little in comparison.
If you really want the inventory space thing to be an issue, then rather than drinks just make like...hot and cold stones. Or make the environmental effects less punishing upfront but make environmental protection an armor skill available in multiple sets, so players have to decide if it's worth adjusting their gear before venturing into those biomes. Or include more areas in a map that provide temporary protections, like the hot springs in Iceborne's Hoarfrost Reach. There are a number of ways they could keep the maps challenging and interesting without boiling down to having to stop for two seconds, maybe twice in an average hunt, to drink. It's a pathetically low-engagement mechanic and if that's the best they wanted to do with it, then it's better off gone.
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For 410€. Holy shit.
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For other things like power charms, traps, etc I agree. But the drinks are weird. Other thinks are like optional items that can help you to defeat a monster in less time if you are a hunter with knowledge. But the drinks are basically a "use it when is a cold/hot map or you will get less stamina/life" and like you said, you can craft it in the same map if you look arount (event more easy in world) so, you don't really need preparation, the game give you the resources, you just spend time looking for it to play 'normal'. But I totally understand you point.
Drinks were fun when their effect wore off in the midst of battle just as you're low on health and stamina and the monster is raging all over you and now you must quickly find a way to extract yourself from the fight. Those times I'll miss.
Doggo Riding for sharpness/healing is Zoning to me, basically. I have no plans to ride the doggo for any means other than transportation sometimes. And as I said in a discord server I was discussing stuff in, where not using the doggo involves dragging the team down (late by ~10s to the hunt, not safe, etc) was brought up: I get the 'dragging team down' thing but meh, if the game's balanced around expecting the player to ride the doggo at all times when not attacking, then I don't wanna play that game. Tis the same as zoning, MH wouldn't have been fun if the expectation was for you to zone 100% of the time to heal.
I don't expect Rise to balanced around Palamute-riding, based on the Demo, but if I start getting kicked from rooms for having a Palico (viewed as not optimal), that'll be disappointing. I hope that doesn't happen.
I don't see why I should care about the kneejerk reaction of a newcomer first hearing about hot drinks and cold drinks in the old games? They have a different idea of what the core experience is, because the series changed before they started playing. Someone who only played Sonic Generations, hearing that Sonic in the Genesis games is slippery and hard to control, may decide that's stupid and irrelevant to the core Sonic experience, even though it was absolutely a critical part of the series at the time.
The reality is that purchasing and crafting items, deciding how to use your limited inventory slots, and making absolutely sure you don't run out of essential items during a hunt... these were all significant parts of the game. Not being able to instantly restock all your consumables, switch equipment, eat another meal and pick up 50 normal 2 ammo off a plant in the middle of a hunt changed how it feels setting off into a quest. All the support you can get once you've arrived boils down to waving at a balloon and maybe getting some supplies at camp at some unknown time. World did a great job making the environments teeming with life, but it no longer feels like an inhospitable place for an intruding hunter... except in a few places like the lower Rotten Vale. There, the noxious gases and pools of energy can sap your health and aggressive small monsters can actually be a hindrance.
Speaking of monsters being a hindrance, these poor monsters in Rise are getting the shit bullied out of them. In old Monster Hunter games, you do not ever want to be fighting two large monsters at once. It massively raises the difficulty and any application of making them harm each other is very niche. The fear of Jho showing up and ruining your day was real. In Rise, it seems like fighting two monsters at once is barely even a thing anymore. The moment one gets touched by the other you get to relentlessly beat the shit out of one for like a full minute, then the other monster just fucks off immediately. There really seems to be no downside to another monster showing up. It's just another way MH's become a relaxed bully the shit out of the poor monsters game and lost some of the danger of the wild.
I'm going to play and love Rise, but the hot/cold drinks are one of many mechanics that kept maps from feeling like a relaxing little playground that exists for hunters to chill out and mess around in. They didn't exist for no reason.
It's zoning without the downsides of zoning (inconvenience and time loss).
Now that getting hit almost doesn't matter anymore (almost no stun, can escape followups even easier with ZL+B, potions now restore half their HP instantly, can ride doggo for safe healing and upkeep, can restock everything at camp), I'm starting to get worried that to introduce any difficulty in the postgame they're going to resort to DPS checks and oneshot attacks like they started doing in World.
I do agree here. I get it, Turf Wars are cool and one of many peoples favorite new additions. That's awesome, and they're cool spectacles. Rise of course expands them and that's also fine, but... Yeah, it was nice when a 2nd mon showing up OR fighting 2x mons in one Arena was... A threat. And, more than that, something to strategize around and plan for. Quro bringin' mons in to wreck your face, that was scary, hahaha. I hope that they bring multi-monster Arena Quests back and aren't just limited to like the few mons who *don't* fight eachother. I doubt it, but I hope. Some of the best quests in the series were multi-monster Arenas D=
We'll see? I'm hopeful but indeed I know how you feel. Crossing fingers!
Love doing that. If you want a bit of more advanced advice, you can use the lance charge or the guard dash -> leaping thrust instead of the forward hops to cover ground in a situation like that, they feel much better!
I don't think it's only the newcomers that are happy to see the hot/cool drinks gone. The first and only other monster hunter I played was Tri on wii (been playing it again recently ahead of getting Rise), and I'm happy to see those drinks gone too. I get how inventory preparation and management factors into the gameplay, but the hot/cool drinks don't really add to the strategy, unlike the whetstone and various buffs. They are just a chore. Something you need to occasionally gulp, and detracts from the thrill of the hint imo. At least with the meat, whetstone, and buffs, there's a strategic choice. Risk stopping to use, or keep fighting without. You'll be weaker if you don't use them, but you don't slowly get hurt unlike in the hot/cold temps.
It may not be the same as before, but maybe there were too many items to manage before? I honestly liked my experience with Rise so far compared to most of my fights with Tri, where too much of my fight is spent cycling through and stopping to use items.
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So will the demo remain playable after February 1?
Some articles state that it will be taken off the eShop, but none mention playability. Does that mean we can continue playing after it gets removed?
Some articles state that it will be taken off the eShop, but none mention playability. Does that mean we can continue playing after it gets removed?
In regards to hot and cool drinks, I like having to prep for an environment, but just chugging a drink isn't interesting so I'm coming around to the idea of taking them out. Personally, I miss the actually dark caves from MH Tri and needing a torch to light areas or just dealing with fighting in the dark.
The removal of hot drinks
/s.
But really, I personally don't see it as a good or bad change, although I can see where those who dislike it are coming from concerning immersion, or preparation being one of the charms of MH that sets it apart from other games within the genre.
Rise is just hitting all the right notes and the in-depth training area capcom is taking notes from its fighting game pedigree and bringing that along to Rise!
It makes sense after World introduced the training area. I think it was one of people's favorite features. So definitely it made sense to expand it.
The only thing missing from Rise is showing the movesets on screen. I'm guessing it's because there's not enough room for handheld play.
It may be just like that on a teaser where it would look to messy on a twitter video?
That's a cool looking area that I will never set foot in.
I don't see why the series needs a training room. This isn't a fighting game or a stylish action game.
I think it's more useful here than a stylish action game. I didn't use it often in World but when I did it was always when I wanted to practice a moveset. Given there's so many weapons in Monster Hunter and ranged weapons play so much differently I think having a place where you can quickly and actively try out your weapon is good. Versus needing to go load into a mission, chase a monster, go back to camp just to change your weapon etc.
I'd say going after a starter monster like Jagras of Pukei is more useful. Knowing how the attacks work in a static environment really doesn't do any good IMO so I'd rather get in actual fight experience. On the other hand with stylish action games I find it great to be able to get the idea for a combo then being able to head into the training room to see if it's possible.
It is a series though where the vast majority of the weapons have a high skill ceiling, with unique mechanics, and multiple ways of comboing into certain moves. Picking up a weapon for the first time requires practice even if you've played MH before, let alone if you're completely new to the series. Weapons like the charge blade and insect glaive are really dense mechanically, having a safe area where you can get to grips with how everything works is definitely an improvement on having to slowly test things out in the field imo