It's another version of the Peter Principle.
Most people are not formally taught how to interview and recruit. It's mostly cultural knowledge that is not questioned.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Modern job interviews are ridiculous
- Thread starter Dalek
- Start date
Most people are not formally taught how to interview and recruit. It's mostly cultural knowledge that is not questioned.
I may finally have a job at hand, but I remember applying to 400 plus jobs last year. My field is public health, so I applied to a good mix of hospital, research, and government jobs. So I've had everything from video chats, to phone interviews, and doing tests during interviews. Most jobs have ghosted, and few took the time to explicitly tell me no. The worse comes after a second or third round of interviews.
The worst interview I had was for a epidemiology job in Tennessee, with the state Medicaid program. It was a pharmacy job, so there was a lot of questions based on scenarios, and a statistical project I had to submit the day before. I had bronchitis, so it was hard to maintain my voice over nearly 4 hours. Then they completely ghosted me afterwards.
The worst interview I had was for a epidemiology job in Tennessee, with the state Medicaid program. It was a pharmacy job, so there was a lot of questions based on scenarios, and a statistical project I had to submit the day before. I had bronchitis, so it was hard to maintain my voice over nearly 4 hours. Then they completely ghosted me afterwards.
yup.
im on the IT infrastructure side of things, and have seen programming stuff like that. But I also see it on my side. People like you dont have a blog? You don't build hyperv/vmware labs in your free time? If you're not on the latest you're going to be left behind. If you don't know powershell, learn to ask do you want fries with that? Its all simply not true. There's nothing wrong with a Sys Admin who wants to be a Sys Admin and goes home and has a life outside of work.
From their perspective, hiring/firing a bad candidate is worse/more costly than missing out on a good candidate due to a disrespectful hiring process.
The argument is that code portfolios e.g. on GitHub can be faked/misrepresentative of actual skill (which IMO is bad, but it's an argument).
Was my experience recently. Im a plant biologist and decided to exit academia during my postdoc and go to industry or government. Worst was going through about 2 months of back and forth with hour long interviews and a take home project, basically boiling down to can you design an experiment. Just time wasting effort and then came back said great news we just want you to come out for an onsite tour. So they flew me out during the pandemic for a 1 hour tour and told me things like if you take the job blah blah blah.
Few days later the recruiter tells me they will know soon and that they are finishing with other candidates, which was shocking to me since they had even told ne what they wanted to pay and benefits. Didnt get the job in the end. Luckily on a layover on my way back got a call to schedule an interview with another company, had one panel interview and presentation and got the job offer a few days later.
Few days later the recruiter tells me they will know soon and that they are finishing with other candidates, which was shocking to me since they had even told ne what they wanted to pay and benefits. Didnt get the job in the end. Luckily on a layover on my way back got a call to schedule an interview with another company, had one panel interview and presentation and got the job offer a few days later.
That's the thing I always told my HR reps when they waffled on a candidate I really wanted to hire. The best candidates are going to be in high demand, if you wait around twiddling your fingers hoping someone better comes along, they will be off the market. You can't take months to hire unless everyone is taking months to hire (which sometimes it seems like that's the case). Oh well.
I can't believe how little these companies that I've applied for think of their applicants. You usually have to fill out a huge questionnaire that asks your basic info, job history, and a litany of "what would you do if..." questions, it's like a fucking interview you have to type out your answers to, and then at the end you attach your resume which contains a large portion of the questions you already answered, as well as a fucking cover letter, god I hate cover letters. All that for nothing, no response, ever.
And if you do get the interview, you just get your hopes up, hearing nothing back, and 5 months later you finally come to terms with yourself that, you probably didn't get the job...
I still remember a previous thread where one hiring manager said he basically just chucked your resume in the trash if it didn't have a good cover letter...
I get it, every company wants you to portray that they are your dream job, but the reality is you're going to be firing off a ton of applications and you may not even hear back from most of them... personalizing a cover letter for each one seems like a bit much sometimes.
I can only speak personally, but it took me cumulatively 4-5 months to get through the interview/testing process for one role I had in a large multinational consultancy. Granted, that was a niche type of consulting.
Even so, the Big 4/MBB firms have some of the dumbest recruitment processes. If I recall correctly, I think it might be PwC that uses a mobile 'game based assessment' to put its applicants through psychometric/intelligence screening - wherein you spend your time trying to crack a vault, playing memory games and tapping the screen to blow up balloons.
I write code all day long damn it, I solve all the problems on the subway!
I write code all day long damn it, I solve all the problems on the subway! Note, BART is closed, so I am working on an algorithm to substitute BART rides with my car. It's called GPS.
I write code all day long damn it, I solve all the problems on the subway! Note, BART is closed, so I am working on an algorithm to substitute BART rides with my car. It's called GPS.
OP
OP
I saw this a while back and it's entirely accurate. Why are software admins, developers and engineers expected to have everything memorized? So stupid.
Exactly, when on the actual job you're likely using an IDE and Google/StackOverflow
These experiences make the tech world seem like a nightmare. I've never been so thankful that I can't math gud.
In my field, it's more like "Can you do CBT and MI? Maybe some psychotherapy? Are you not a total asshole? Cool, come on in." Of course, my paycheck would probably make you guys laugh, but it's a tradeoff!
In my field, it's more like "Can you do CBT and MI? Maybe some psychotherapy? Are you not a total asshole? Cool, come on in." Of course, my paycheck would probably make you guys laugh, but it's a tradeoff!
Yeah I've seen a couple of companies (Rio Tinto and some consultancies) use those weird games and it's like - is there any research proving that those games translate in any way to on-the-job performance? Because they just seem like a waste of time, especially if you're trying to get your first job and are going through the interview process of dozens of companies.
I had an interview recently where I was so turned off after the second interview where the person would not stop asking why I was leaving my current employer. they just would not let it go like my current employer does a higher-level work but I said I would want to change the type of work I do. what's funny is a simple glass door search on my current employer gets you a bunch of awful reviews that explain everything.
Yes and no.
People usually do study for a few months before interviewing at a FAANG, where you could start at $200k, like at Google/FB. Others depend on location. Maybe a very unique startup. Apple probably being the lowest of the lowest lowballers.
So if $200K is your goal. Studying may not be a bad idea if you just got your MS in CS, and don't have a job, but do have a Visa (in case of many international students) and can apply for an H1-B (although those are a bit tricky rn, because of Trump).
Education is usually:
1. Interview with panel from the subject area the position is for
2. Demo lesson observed by principal + members of the department
3. Interview with principal + department head
4. Interview with assistant superintendent (though they generally just send one applicant for this, but you can still lose the job here)
5. Get called back to sign a contract
1. Interview with panel from the subject area the position is for
2. Demo lesson observed by principal + members of the department
3. Interview with principal + department head
4. Interview with assistant superintendent (though they generally just send one applicant for this, but you can still lose the job here)
5. Get called back to sign a contract
I had a 2-hour long interview for a likely dream job on Monday...now my post-interview anxiety has begun :(
The technical interview part always feels like the people are basically accusing you of being a liar. They're really an antiquated measure of intelligence and ability to complete a job. Plus, I wish these smaller companies would get over themselves and stop trying to do the FAANG type interviews. Oh, a depth-first-search coding problem as a 'warm up?' Really ridiculous.
This is the worse... constantly replaying the interview in your head and telling yourself you should have said this and that.
All the best, i hope you qualify for the next round and get the job!
These problems stem directly from a system that demands everyone get a job, but also that you only apply for places you really want to work for. I applied at the places I really wanted to work for, they didn't want me. So I applied everywhere else until I found somewhere that did. That's reality, but it's not a reality that most companies are willing to accept.
This is a great post.
I always chuckle inside when HR asks why I want to work for a place. Almost as if I'm supposed to give them this grandiose reason. When in reality it's something I can do that has good benefits and or salary.
I just assume that they're a simple method of weeding out large numbers of applicants. I'm especially puzzled when the psychometric testing includes reaction time testing or facial expression recognition/emotional response testing.
As you say, the issue is that, for graduates especially, these applications are incredibly time-consuming. When every organisation has their bespoke application process and testing formats, each of which take up hours or days at a time, and none of them ever provide any feedback other than auto-generated messages, the experience can be utterly soul-destroying.
Apart from all of that, I still hold a special dislike for recorded video interviews and "digital cover letters". I find it incredibly disconcerting talking to myself in a webcam, especially when time limits are involved. Put a human in front of me, and I'm perfectly fine. Force me to talk to myself and I start to lose it.
So much this! I hate technical interviews so much because I get anxiety explaining software like Active Directory or AWS because in my head, I always sound like a dumbass. I have worked with AD for 6+ years, and once got stumped on "What is Active Directory?"
But it's true. A good technical interview is pointing out parts of your resume and getting more in depth into your accomplishments. A tech interview that is testing you like "Name the FSMO roles" is complete garbage and doesn't benefit either side.
I have no fucking idea what they are even looking for.
Any recruiters/interviewers here that can tell me what the need for so many ridiculously stupid fucking questions is?
Like why the fuck does an interview take an hour?
As someone who has hired people before, I never needed more than their resume and a 10 minute conversation to know if they were a hire or not, and I did it without any of those stupid fucking "How would you rate yourself at ______" type of questions.
My current job asked me Why I wanted to work for the company. I literally said "I don't. I don't want to work for any company, but I like owning things and living in a house.. so here I am".
Obviously said it with a cheeky smile in a joking way, but my answer was serious af.
I just think questions like that are dumb. So much of the process of getting a job is a massive waste of time. You gotta jump through 15 hoops for even the most basic of jobs thesee days, like Restaurant employee or min wage jobs. It's so lame.
That's why I always try to apply for a job while I already have a job. So I don't "Need" it. It leaves me free to be myself and actually answer the questions like a human, and not some scripted robot who has practiced the questions.
Any recruiters/interviewers here that can tell me what the need for so many ridiculously stupid fucking questions is?
Like why the fuck does an interview take an hour?
As someone who has hired people before, I never needed more than their resume and a 10 minute conversation to know if they were a hire or not, and I did it without any of those stupid fucking "How would you rate yourself at ______" type of questions.
My current job asked me Why I wanted to work for the company. I literally said "I don't. I don't want to work for any company, but I like owning things and living in a house.. so here I am".
Obviously said it with a cheeky smile in a joking way, but my answer was serious af.
I just think questions like that are dumb. So much of the process of getting a job is a massive waste of time. You gotta jump through 15 hoops for even the most basic of jobs thesee days, like Restaurant employee or min wage jobs. It's so lame.
That's why I always try to apply for a job while I already have a job. So I don't "Need" it. It leaves me free to be myself and actually answer the questions like a human, and not some scripted robot who has practiced the questions.
That I find baffling. Like I need the job so I can make money to build my credit man.
Reading stories like these always make me lukewarm about looking around while at my current job (Security+Facility Operations) which I sort of worked my way from the bottom up so I don't have qualifications for more senior stuff (aka be an ex cop working for funsies) biggest struggle I had is how to translate what I do day to day to a proper resume. At least I'm paid decently and in general still employed during these pandemic times
Thanks! yeah this is the worst...I am still playing the scenario.......:(
OP
OP
This happened to me when I worked for a major investment firm. I could maybe understand somewhat being concerned about someone being a financial risk? But I'm of the opinion that practice should be illegal on the grounds of a privacy violation. Technically you have to consent to to allow them to do it-but they are the ones making it a requirement for employment.
walk into the interviews and do this
legally they have to make you the CEO
We had a guy working for us that did this when he was on site with the client.
Let me tell you the client complained.
Next thing he does, he's joking at immigration in SFO that he's secretly here to plant bombs.
That didn't go well and our CEO had to call to confirm he was working for us.
Welp, he's not with us anymore.
Last year I applied at a company. I went through 4 interviews. My first interview was 2hrs long with intial manager, second was a technical interview with the cto 4.5hrs long, 3rd was 3 hours long interview and last interview with the remaining team for about an 1hr. This was all dragged over 3.5 months In every interview the cto kept telling me how great I am and how perfect I am for the role and then in the end he told me he really wants to hire me but he needs some time to think. Kept stringing me along, in the end I told him it's obvious you can't make up your mind so I will make the decision for you. It's a no from me. It was a good decision as I later found a pretty sweet job that I have been working for over a year now.
The most interviews for a job I've ever had was 3, interviews are always pretty awful and trying to answer questions like "why do you want to work for *insert corporate company here*" just kind of...sucks? Like I want to work for you because I'm qualified and I need to pay my rent.
To use StackOverflow is dishonorable.
All problems must be solved through reading and re-reading the manual until you memorize it, and then through relentless experimentation without any outside help.
To look at another programmer's code is to irretrievably sully your art with some slutty piece of open-source code that has been edited by who knows how many hands. To use that is to deprive your creation of its noble and glorious Hylian soul, descended from the heavens themselves.
Don't shoot yourself in the foot.
That video however is also representative of entry level jobs where you do whatever for maybe 50k€. They ALWAYS ask you about your own personal projects and what you're doing to stay up to date, at least from my experience.
The worst part of this process is when you have a 8/9-5 job and somehow they expect you to find time off from work for 1-2 hour interviews. It'd be one thing if most bosses were cool when you said "I need time off to interview for new jobs", but I'm sure a lot would take it as a slight and make your life miserable.
It's gotten to the point where I just take full sick days. Really sucks when you don't have sick time.
I had an interview like this. I do IT support, so I can work at almost any company, but this particular place was a home builder. There were two guys who were lower level It and then the head IT guy was on the phone. The guy on the phone proceeded to grill me for an hour on networking, all while trying to trip me up by asking trick questions like "Have you ever used a level 4 switch?", uh... they don't exist. He would aggressively probe my knowledge, then focus on the things I was weak on. It was humiliating and when they asked me for a follow-up I told them I wasn't interested and that guy was the reason why. Also, I've noticed that the companies with the most rigorous interviewing processes are the ones that have the worst work environments.
Personally I don't understand the interview process. I've always been a nervous interviewer. I consistently do extremely well in competency based assessments then once I get the interview I get situations like "you provided too much detail" or "You need to give a quick 3-4 point summary of what you did to accomplish this..." yet if I do that in another interview I'm told I haven't provided enough detail or I "skimmed" through and clearly didn't show enough thought.
I'm at the point where I honestly just don't know what I'm supposed to do in an interview, conflicting feedback just sets me back on one path or another and it's incredibly demoralizing finding out you were the best competency based candidate for a job and someone else got it because they were able to parse their knowledge slightly better in a 45 minute slice, especially considering the nature of an interview it's difficult to prepare for questions that you don't know ahead of time. I mean I don't understand the benefits of this, I've never had to prepare a meeting or presentation blind, I've always known going in what needs to be discussed and what information needs to be collated.
I'm at the point where I honestly just don't know what I'm supposed to do in an interview, conflicting feedback just sets me back on one path or another and it's incredibly demoralizing finding out you were the best competency based candidate for a job and someone else got it because they were able to parse their knowledge slightly better in a 45 minute slice, especially considering the nature of an interview it's difficult to prepare for questions that you don't know ahead of time. I mean I don't understand the benefits of this, I've never had to prepare a meeting or presentation blind, I've always known going in what needs to be discussed and what information needs to be collated.
I think the pandemic has made interviewing easier. Job I got in April required only phone interviews. It was three phone interviews three days in a row for about 20 minutes. Each were a bit different. I found it much easier than if I would've had to go in to interview.
My one issue is everyone uses a different video conference platform. I've had to download both zoom and teams in the past few months for different companies.
I tried the laid back 'I don't need this job' attitude after someone recommended it and that did not work out well for me. Personally, I've had the most success with the opposite, pretending to be super enthusiastic. Acting like it's been my dream to work for your shitty company my entire life. It at least gets you past the initial stage and on to a technical interview, as that is all the HR people are looking for are jazzed applicants. Once you get that callback you can bring the fake enthusiasm down a bit for the second interview. I also like to do this thing where I look the interviewer in the eyes and remind them that I would love to work here and please remember me during the selection process. Pretty sure that helped me get my current job.
Fucking LOL
Luckily I taught a friend OOP fundamentals with Java. It's my go-to story.
OP
OP
I so got into the wrong industry. Can you teach me to be an urban planner.
Lol
Becoming a doctor is way more work, and much longer, more expensive path though, and they also have to go through many interviews which themselves are becoming rigorous and ridiculous depending on the field