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darfox8

Member
Nov 5, 2017
984
USA
I don't think you understand just how difficult it is to mod any closed source game. It is multiple levels harder than actually working directly on said product for many different reasons, and any mod still has to go through significant testing and debugging to make sure it doesn't do things like 'erase your save' or 'brick your switch entirely'.
I don't pretend to know what this persons work flow/load is like. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in claiming this person did something the devs couldn't/wouldn't(with "surprising ease" mind you). When it's clearly not anywhere near finished or even playable.

Again that's not even talking about the fact that he is doing this outside of a cooperative work environment where decisions are sometimes made for you.
 

Lark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
532
Canada
I don't pretend to know what this persons work flow/load is like. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in claiming this person did something the devs couldn't/wouldn't(with "surprising ease" mind you). When it's clearly not anywhere near finished or even playable.

Again that's not even talking about the fact that he is doing this outside of a cooperative work environment where decisions are sometimes made for you.
I don't know if "not anywhere near even playable" is especially accurate here. It seems to function normally in battle outside the stated missing pair of animations. It even animates Nuzzle correctly, despite Omastar not having Nuzzle in its natural moveset. "Finished" is something else entirely, and it's definitely not there yet, but this seems playable to me.
 

Fulminator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,199
I did not purchase it because I don't feel like supporting the game at all. I also skipped USUM and LG ):
My girlfriend bought a used copy yesterday though (Not that she's boycotting or anything, she just wanted to get it cheaper)
I figured as much.

hate to say it myself since I was optimistic about the game at first, but I feel like you aren't missing out on much tbh. Just more of the same but with less pokemon.
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,818
Why stop at 400? Think of how easy it would be if there were just 100? Or less than 20 like Little Town Hero?

Of course it's easier, but it wouldn't feel like an adventure if there were only 20 Pokemon in a game that's supposed to feature an entire island, a number that is significantly smaller than the first game even. If I can have an educated guess, 400ish is the most reasonable number given the development time and budget for this title.
 

darfox8

Member
Nov 5, 2017
984
USA
I don't know if "not anywhere near even playable" is especially accurate here. It seems to function normally in battle outside the stated missing pair of animations. It even animates Nuzzle correctly, despite Omastar not having Nuzzle in its natural moveset. "Finished" is something else entirely, and it's definitely not there yet, but this seems playable to me.
Don't get me wrong. Cool shit. This person definitely has more talent than me and I bet they have done cool shit in the past and will do cool shit in the future. But I don't consider "softlocking" playable. There are whole mechanics that have to be accounted for in every single pokemon added to this game. Plugging in an old model isn't it. It isn't "WOWOWO SEE GAMEFREAKS GET ON IT!" Let's be truthful.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,643
Costa Rica
I figured as much.

hate to say it myself since I was optimistic about the game at first, but I feel like you aren't missing out on much tbh. Just more of the same but with less pokemon.

Well from what I've managed to play with her it feels to me as "Bare Minimum: Pokémon Edition" But I'd be lying if I said she's not enjoying it better than Let's Go....which she begged me for and then dropped after a few hours....after I bought it new for her birthday...with the only money I had.

200.gif
 

Fulminator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,199
Well from what I've managed to play with her it feels to me as "Bare Minimum: Pokémon Edition" But I'd be lying if I said she's not enjoying it better than Let's Go....which she begged me for and then dropped after a few hours....after I bought it new for her birthday...with the only money I had.

200.gif
lol

i can agree with the bare minimum bit though ...
 

Apopheniac

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,660
The Drayano/Dio Vento-style hack that adds all the cut Pokemon back into the world and rebalances everything to be more of a challenge is gonna be great. It still won't be able to fix the pacing probably, but I'm already looking forward to just those improvements alone.
Yeah, I don't think there's much they'd be able to do with the world design. Closest we might get would be shuffling the order you go through the existing maps.
 

Mipmap

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 1, 2017
378
The Wild Area with the cut pokemon added back in and roaming around would be legit amazing.
Obviously adding the non-Let's Go models in will be harder, but I don't doubt the modding community will be able to add USUM models soon.
 

Deleted member 38706

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 19, 2018
924
You guys seen this yet? You can actually see this issue in-game so it's not an issue caused by the YouTuber.
giphy.gif
 

Masamist

Banned
Jul 14, 2019
40
This thread is perpetuating a false narrative. Let's Go is the same engine as this game so it makes sense
source.gif

It's the Gen 7 engine so they are limited in scope.

I mean the rest of the animation for Floaty Fall isn't bad, just the going up into the air
Oct 1, 2018
Somewhat yes. This is using an upscaled version of the Generation 7 engine (which makes sense as it's a Gen 7 game). It's fairly obvious when you see character movements and the battle animations being identical to Sun & Moon but in HD.

Gen 8 will run its own engine. These engines are usually massively modified and enhanced from their predecessors
While it's probably true since they have always made new engines for new gens, we can't exactly be sure that Let's Go is using the same engine as Gen 7, as animations (and artstyle and assets and pretty much everything) aren't tied to engines.
I am fairly certain this is the same engine

I suspect Town came to be after they were testing making 3D worlds for Gen 8
It's worth noting that all these statements were made after having been able to play exclusively the final build version of Let's Go games at the TPC headquarters in London, for a couple of hours. Unlike people you were addressing this year, for judging the resemblance of Switch pokemon models with the 3DS ones by only watching a trailer.

Anyway, playing the games extensively doesn't seems to have changed you mind, since just 5 month ago you were still perpetuating this misinformation.
But in July there was the circulation of Famitsu interview , and...
180 degree turn

All the improvements we saw on the Switch titles, lighting, particles effects, etc, started to broke horribly the game and models, in you narration (using this word not to mock you, but because really was set up on nothing, than a EA developer told me it might occurs).

Weird, taking in count you were also the same providing the information of Yebis 3 middlesoftware used for LGPE :
Silicon Studio announced this today. The game uses their advanced optical middleware engine. This is for various post-processing effects, presumably things like the auras around Pokémon and so forth.

https://www.siliconstudio.co.jp/news/pressreleases/2018/1811yebis/pdf/1811yebis.pdf

A pretty neat thing to know. We know the battle system and overworld appears to be using a modified Generation 7 engine so it's all coming together.
 

Nitpicker_Red

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,282
I don't pretend to know what this persons work flow/load is like. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy in claiming this person did something the devs couldn't/wouldn't(with "surprising ease" mind you). When it's clearly not anywhere near finished or even playable.

Again that's not even talking about the fact that he is doing this outside of a cooperative work environment where decisions are sometimes made for you.
It's mostly the separation they do between "research" and "implementation". Once technical research has been done (by creating a "proof of concept"), it is treated as a solved problem, and only the boring implementation work remains, which can sometimes be shared between several people.
The modder gave some insights about what they are actually doing in practical terms, the separate points of the process.

The modder says that the initial Technical difficulty of bringing functional Pokémon from LGPE is low. Quotes:
  • « This was a model proof of concept, because everything other than models/anims is easy. Stats are "edit six bytes". The game already knows omastar exists, it just stubbed some values to zero that need to be copy/pasted back from an older game. » (source)
  • « The fact that people seem to think stats are hard is fascinating to me.
  • Stats are six bytes at a fixed location in one file -- the only reason I didn't bother was because I thought it would be well understood they're trivial...
  • Moves are just a copy paste from USUM... » (source)
  • « Actually, in battle animations are fully functional, and this was copy pasted so required basically zero effort. » (source)
  • « The kanto Pokémon are basically free because let's go copypaste works, and the rest can be converted from usum once tools are made. » (source)


The "relative ease" is about the process he did.
  • « About an hour to reverse the model table flatbuffer format, and then like 5 minutes to copy/paste the files + edit with PKHeX. » (source)
One hour of reverse-engineering, meaning that this part doesn't have to be redone.

What has to be done is automate the process of adding animations. Also an one-time work.
  • « Another clarification: lots more work needed for anything people would want to use.
  • Obvious action items:
  • -Produce flatbuffer schemas to add new animations. » (source)

But for older games, there remains to create an automated converter for the models and animations. Difficulty unknown.
  • « -Produce converter from BCH to GFBMDL, to use USUM models (no converter exists right now). »

However, they won't have the "GameFreak handmade updated textures" that are one of the noticeable change of the models.
  • « -Upscale old pokemon textures. »
  • « -Textures could probably use waifu2x or similar for a first pass? » (source)


You are right to say that modding doesn't have the same Quality Insurance as official development.
There will be many more reused animations and default values to make things work.
  • « the omastar I imported works fine in camp + the overworld. Dynamax works fine with an animation renamed to allow it to re-enter the ball. » (source)
Some animations could be sourced back from Pokémon-amie etc. from 3DS games, or re-use generic-looking existing animation fitting the situation. (Just like how GF themselves used the "buff attack" animation when Pokémon get out of their Ball in LGPE.) There's no creative work involved (unless the communauty starts creating the missing animations rather than use the closest one from the existing ones).

The textures might also look off due to the different style used. There could be some automation/intelligent algorithms involved to produce something useable, but that's probably the part that GF or Creatures were tweaking by artists.

I nearly forgot but some moves animations are missing too, since several moves were cut.
  • « The old move animations are a much harder problem. But I'm not so concerned about those, it's really only the Pokémon that I care about. » (source)
Maybe they could be replaced in the data by similar existing moves, or be ignored entirely. (Or other modders could bring them back!)


So yeah, bringing all the Pokémon is "easy" if you don't take in account artistic polish. Or ignore new company-wide policies.


To wrap up, what the modder says is that:
  1. the technical hurdle of bringing LGPE Pokémon models is solved, it is just a matter of implementation/creating the tools to allow for automation which is always slow.
  2. the hurdle of importing a new Pokémon in the data is mostly solved trough Pkhex. Stats, entry ID, models and most animations are solved. Left to decide which animation to reuse when missing (plug holes in a way that doesn't stand out compared to other animations). And decide what to do with missing/cut moves (replace with similar?).
  3. the hurdle of bringing 3DS Pokémon is currently not solved, due to the difference in models format (must reverse-engineer the format and build a converter). And those won't have the same texture style (unpolished).

The modder says that building the tools to allow everyone to inject Pokémon in their game in a way that fits is going to be his next work. It is not about difficulty of implementation there. But easy to implement doesn't mean quick to implement. It's just "work to do", rather than groundbreaking exploration. They are counting on the community to do some of the cleanup later.

 
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Masamist

Banned
Jul 14, 2019
40
User Banned (Permanent): Posting sexualised images of minors; account in junior phase
Who cares to bring back the national dex pokemon???

These are the kind of improvement the game deserve.
wb7CkRF.jpg

Replaced the bike with the Mercedes GLA model from MK8

Mod edit- inappropriate content removed
 
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MrBadger

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,552
Have any non-Lets Go models been implemented yet and have any correctly shaded Let's Go models been put in?
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,216
Who cares to bring back the national dex pokemon???

These are the kind of improvement the game deserve.
wb7CkRF.jpg

Replaced the bike with the Mercedes GLA model from MK8


Mod edit- inappropriate content removed
These are the mods we need, specifically the car bike.

If only one could mod away the bike gear.

EDIT: OK, that swimsuit is kinda fucked up after looking up the hiragana.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

jediyoshi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,119
In lieu of a mod thread, I'll post this here. Messed around with making some simple texture mods. Genuinely could not tell this game used normal/spec maps before messing around.

m4AAr8I.png