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Deleted member 11276

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,223
Oh yeah, no full-on path tracing for games like AC. But Minecraft RT is still heavily expensive, running between 38 and 50fps at 1080p on an RTX 2080 according to PC Gamer. So the Series X being able to run Minecraft RT at even 30-60fps, 1080p (like the demo said) is highly promising about how the console handles RT.

Exciting times are ahead!
I think we should wait until we make an assumption for that. The XSX demo looked way less complex than the worlds created for Minecraft RTX here, which were used for testing the performance. Also we don't know if XSX already used DXR 1.1 which is not possible right now on PC.
 

gabdeg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,966
šŸ
What are people even talking about when they say fake lights in the context of a rendered scene? There will be no need to fake lighting, as is done in rasterized games right now. With pathtracing you can introduce a light source to a scene and light and shadow will behave correctly with accurate results. In rasterized scenes it may blow everything up depending on the amount of hacking/artist touch-ups done to get the scene looking as expected in the first place.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
I'm not sure why people think raytracing means an easier time for developers.

For anyone that actually has to program or worry about technical aspects full path tracing reduces complexity about 99% (ie those that touch the graphics side of the game engine). But it also helps artists who won't have to worry about special tools or settings that are currently REQUIRED for every single scene of every single game made today to make things look right. Do you have any idea how many lights have to manually be set to cast shadows for technical reasons? Do you have any idea how many shadow maps have to be manually set up around some dynamic asset? Do you have any idea how many light probes have to be tweaked in this area or that?

We're talking 99% less work for graphics programmers and 95% less work for technical artists (or rather these efforts will be spent elsewhere).

it is monumental.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,732
Probably my ultimate dream would be to play Minecraft at 4K, 100+ FPS, with full path tracing.

It will probably be another 6-8 years before this is feasible though.
 
OP
OP
Theorry

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61,043
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ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
not allowing for all three DLSS performance options in the beta is a weird thing to do. might end up impacting people's view on performance
 

ApeEscaper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,720
Bangladeshi
I mean it's not entirely ray tracings doing the difference, they also use different texture packs too but they never mention that

PBR enabled texture packs plus transparent ones compared to the completely opaque standard Minecraft textures
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
I mean it's not entirely ray tracings doing the difference, they also use different texture packs too but they never mention that

PBR enabled texture packs plus transparent ones compared to the completely opaque standard Minecraft textures

they do mention the PBR textures frequently and to a large extent they (new textures) are necessary for proper image quality - otherwise specularity is arbitrary. This info is basically required for raytracing unless you decide the world is made of paper or plastic or something.
 
Jun 2, 2019
4,947
I mean it's not entirely ray tracings doing the difference, they also use different texture packs too but they never mention that

PBR enabled texture packs plus transparent ones compared to the completely opaque standard Minecraft textures

I mean, adding textures to showcase raytracing was a given. However even in the java version without any texture pack you can see a HUGE difference by using the SEUS shader
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I mean it's not entirely ray tracings doing the difference, they also use different texture packs too but they never mention that

PBR enabled texture packs plus transparent ones compared to the completely opaque standard Minecraft textures
they mentioned that all the time. even gave a long-ass talk and a tutorial on how to make PBR textures
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,931
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
Except that even with ray tracing, you're still going to have to construct "fake" lighting setups to get something that looks aesthetically pleasing, just as is the case in real life:

MV5BZmVkZTAxOGQtYjg1MC00NmNhLWEzNGYtZDhiZDRkN2QwYzZjXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjQ4ODE4MzQ@._V1_.jpg


If anything ray tracing will only increase the demands for more realistic, cinematic and ultimately more time and complex consuming lighting setups.
I do not see that being the case at all. It makes lighting scenes arbitrary because you are not spending oodles of time tweaking shadow map bias, making sure X amount of shadow res is available for a light, making sure the image probe lines up, and then having to place fill lights in scenes when you do not like how the real time plus ibl fills out the scene, or spending the hours for lighting to build, or....

Your example of how a movie lights certain scenes ^^ is really only relevant for a cutscene creation. A gameplay scene cannot, and will not have 85 watt bulbs falling around character heads to make sure the back side of them is lit properly.
And even then, cutscenes with rasterisation involve tons of iteration and figedting for lighting not because of artistic reasons, but because specific engine features have to be tweaked to make sure things work specifically only for cutscenes instead of relying on a unified simulation.

Lighting a scene in rasterisation requires you to think in abstracted terms and not thinking about how light actually works. Lighting a scene with ray traced lighting is using everyday logic and requires a lot less downtime and specific per-case workarounds.
 
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ohblahitsme

Member
Jan 20, 2018
46
Which version of Minecraft is this for? I bought mine on their website and downloaded it from the Windows store.

Also do you need a special gpu for this?
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
Recommend watching the DF video if people want a more detailed example of what this can bring to Minecraft and gaming in general.
 

Akela

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,849
I do not see that being the case at all. It makes lighting scenes arbitrary because you are not spending oodles of time tweaking shadow map bias, making sure X amount of shadow res is available for a light, making sure the image probe lines up, and then having to place fill lights in scenes when you do not like how the real time plus ibl fills out the scene, or spending the hours for lighting to build, or....

Your example of how a movie lights certain scenes ^^ is really only relevant for a cutscene creation. A gameplay scene cannot, and will not have 85 watt bulbs falling around character heads to make sure the back side of them is lit properly.
And even then, cutscenes with rasterisation involve tons of iteration and figedting for lighting not because of artistic reasons, but because specific engine features have to be tweaked to make sure things work specifically only for cutscenes instead of relying on a unified simulation.

Lighting a scene in rasterisation requires you to think in abstracted terms and not thinking about how light actually works. Lighting a scene with ray traced lighting is using everyday logic and requires a lot less downtime and specific per-case workarounds.

I suppose so. I just feel that any time saved because of workflow efficiencies is probably just going to be eaten up by more complex and ambitious lighting setups that weren't possible before, since that's usually how these things tend to go. More powerful gaming hardware has only really led to games having bigger and more complex scenes, and the end result is that artists and programmers still have to worry about performance like they've always had despite the hardware being orders of magnitude more powerful then they were developing for before. Andy and Bill's law, basically.

And I think ray tracing will probably afford games to have more cinematic approaches to lighting that ultimately becomes more time consuming in it's own way, with not only every cutscene having per-shot lighting, but even individual sections of gameplay having complex, Hollywood-style scripted lighting setups. But I guess the time will at least be spent making artistic decisions rather then fighting the game engine. I mean games will look shockingly good next gen, but I certainly can't see them taking any less time to develop.
 
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Stacey

Banned
Feb 8, 2020
4,610
The RTX build is now available via the insider app.

I got a constant (Pending) though so it may be getting hammered.
 

Deleted member 3038

Oct 25, 2017
3,569
This is probably the first time I've ever seen the xbox Insider hub actually freeze.
 

Deleted member 10612

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,774
That's no the reason.
The reason is that camera struggled with low lighting condition, bringing a lot of noise or bigger exposure time, while our eyes doesn't.
Full computal generate images doesn't requires that.
No, even in broad daylight the light on a movie or photo shoot set needs to be controlled. Bounce boxes, diffuser etc. You dont want half the face in harsh shadow and the other half bright as fuck.

Digital cameras, depending on shutter speed, can capture more "stuff" then the human eye.

On topic: this comparison is kind of ridiculous. The game had garbage lightning tech, by today's standards, to begin with. While the rtx version looks nice, I think the performance hit is not worth it. Everything here could and imo on next gen consoles will be mostly faked, like today. In a couple of years, on pc, things will become crazy good.
 
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gabdeg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,966
šŸ
Folks here we go.
minecraftscreenshot20u5jde.jpg


Just a heads up, you can't download anything from the marketplace with the trial so you won't get these RTX worlds unless you own the game. You can however make your own RTX resource pack or whatever.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
Xbox Insider App was working fine earlier today but now it simply won't connect, cannot change my settings to get the RTX beta... :/
 

Moebius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,395
RTX off looks horrendous. It will be great when all games have ray tracing, especially Dark Souls 2. Or any game with a torch for that matter. I love torches in games and this will make them so much more fun.
 

Pancracio17

ā–² Legend ā–²
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,786
Raytracing is an absolute game changer, especially for a game like minecraft where all its lighting is dynamic.

Raytracing is probably one of the biggest graphical jumps weve seen so far in gaming history tbh. Once it becomes commonplace we wont remember how we lived without it.
 

cmagus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
674
Xbox Insider App was working fine earlier today but now it simply won't connect, cannot change my settings to get the RTX beta... :/
You need to go into the marketplace and download the RTX maps. I don't think this beta lets you use your own at the moment or if it does I can't find where. That being said you can get the created maps and unlock them letting you build in them.
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
No, even in broad daylight the light on a movie or photo shoot set needs to be controlled. Bounce boxes, diffuser etc. You dont want half the face in harsh shadow and the other half bright as fuck.
That doesn't mean it is always used.
Computer Generated image are controlled environment by definition, stop comparing it with real life sets who needs to be controlled because working with sun light is a pain (and like I said, some still does it).