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Millennials are the new lost generation (Atlantic article)
- Thread starter Pooh
- Start date
It never existed. Not for people of colour. Not for woman. Maybe for the working class for a very brief window following the new deal.
The housing market is one of biggest factors in causing untold misery on younger people around the world (obviously this being a US based article there are other factors that might not apply to other countries too). Governments around the world have pinned their economies on something that should be a basic human right, something which is easily achievable - to own a home of your own. Instead we now have a situation where less and less young people can afford to even move out of their parents home and are less likely to have the experiences their parents did by doing that, those who do go out and rent or buy with long mortgages are just propping up a market which is taking huge percentages of wages from people and leaving them with very little to actually spend elsewhere.
It is now too late for most countries to fix that problem without causing too much economic damage, governments stepping in and building large amounts of new homes to sell cheap to first time buyers should happen but it won't. I imagine the vast majority of millennials and beyond would be happy to see the entire system implode given the current situation.
It is now too late for most countries to fix that problem without causing too much economic damage, governments stepping in and building large amounts of new homes to sell cheap to first time buyers should happen but it won't. I imagine the vast majority of millennials and beyond would be happy to see the entire system implode given the current situation.
My parents aren't narcissistic, they just think that their life experiences can apply to me.
I don't even live in the same country as them now and they've enjoyed one of the hottest real estate markets in the world for the last 20 years. Meanwhile, my property value has declined 10-15% in the last 2 years. Needless to say with low interest rates for at least the next decade, throwing more money into a declining asset is not necessarily the best investment strategy even if it is down-paying cheap debt.
Building wealth is easy if it just means paying your mortgage, I am not of the opinion boomers are trying to screw over younger generations. Ultimately, they were lucky they grew up in an era where building wealth was relatively easy. It often didn't require strategy or forward thinking, it simply required putting a roof over your head and watching the value explode. Given that, if we go through a sustained depression their wealth may be just as fragile as the rest of us without an income and lack of a diversified asset base, so no one really should be banking on an inheritance to somehow make up for your shortfalls in income.
These things are so short sighted too. Millennials and Gen-Z's having no economic prosperity, job security, benefits, etc. is only the tip of the iceberg. The extreme decline in birth rates in these groups (due to no economic future) is going to put the US on a worse trajectory than Japan is today within 30 years. The countries population demographics will be extremely top sided and if we don't improve our health care systems or become more receptive to immigration, the entire system can collapse as we won't have actual workers to support the aging millennials who not only have no financial security to help them, but also no labor force or children to actually take care of them. It's a ticking time bomb.
I think you're missing the point I was making. My point in those examples was only that the reality that eventually presented itself isn't one that was predicted. We don't know what we don't know and history has shown that while we can predict some things generally (automation) others can end up changing in ways that seemed highly improbable.
It really isn't about how many streamers make as much as an NBA player (which... seems an odd comparison considering most of the country doesn't and won't ever make as much as an NBA player...) but how many influencers regardless of medium have been able to make a living. As in make enough of a wage as to pay rent, eat, afford utilities, and have a few optional comforts. That is what I would consider a "viable" career path within the context of today. When we start talking about 6 figures... that's roughly double the median income for the country.
So while.. a Gen Z-er's college debt won't be less than that a Millenials, a Gen Z-er has a known optional career path that wasn't considered viable for Millenials at the same comparitive age and stage in life. And it's likely that we'll continue to see those kinds of changes as time goes forward. These changes won't all be positive and even the positive ones will likely offer their own potential pitfalls. But we can't just say "Things will continue the exact way we're experiencing them now" because that's not how things have worked out. The comparative Value to Debt of the average Collegiate Graduate in 1970 wasn't the same as that of the average Collegiate Graduate in 2006. The quality of life available to the average Blue Collar worker in 1950 wasn't the same as the average Blue Collar worker in 2015. If you told the average person in the year 2000 that there would be a thriving sub-genre of entertainment that consisted of people recording their group of friends playing tabletop RPGs like DnD, you'd have been outright laughed at.
Millenials without a college degree have had a rough time and with this new recession are guaranteed to continue having a rough time. Gen Z-ers without a college degree are having a rough time but have more years in their "prime" working ages to adapt to whatever changes come. Whether that means the time to seek re- or alternate education to fit the changing workforce or it means finding career paths that either don't currently exists or aren't fully viable. That doesn't mean that they are guaranteed to be better off, only that they have more time as a generation to adjust. It isn't reasonable to project the outlook that things will only get worse for them even if a lot of the current societal problems aren't fixed.
I think there are just too many fundamental issues with how the government and economy is being administrated right now in America to suggest there's any path in which Z-ers will be better off than millennials. During the Clinton years with the advent of free-trade and expanding telecommunications infrastructure, increasing globalization, the international supply chain, you could argue that the 2000s were set to be a more prosperous time where people took advantage of access to global markets and tech. What are we doing now that suggests we're going to see a boom over the next decade? Where is the optimism?
I understand that we can't know what we don't know, but I was around in the 90s, and people weren't pessimistic about the next decade the way we are now. Wage stagnation and inflation is out of control now, in a way that didn't seem possible because of very real growth back then. Not even the stock market is growing now. Wages aren't growing. The debt isn't falling like it was under Clinton. There needs to be some sign of some sort of growth or development coming from the Trump white house and there is just not.
I'm not suggesting that a boom is very likely or even likely at all. Just that there's the possibility that Gen Z will generally have a better time of it than Millenials have. I.E. The Greatest Generation > The Silent Generation > Boomers. There is a very specific set of circumstances that led to that historical generational development and I'm not suggesting that history will repeat itself in the same way. Just that with the way things change in general it's too soon that say it's a forgone conclusion that Gen Z-er's are doomed.
This is a false choice. In reality you are lucky to get paid a living wage for doing soul crushing office work vs getting paid less than a living wage to do soul crushing service jobs. Most people simply can't make a living "following their passion".
You're missing the point.
Doing exactly this is the 60s, 70s or 80s would still enable you to buy a house, pay off your debts, have job security.
Millennials cannot do it because these jobs and opportunities have been destroyed, i.e. turned into internships and saturated markets based on wasted, debt ridden college degrees. Millennials exist entirely in late stage capitalism which is a crumbling system where only old money truly exists and carries influence.
Fear the old wealth
I don't think I've ever hated someone as much as the author of this article.
These Entitled Millennials Are Cheering for a Housing Market Crash
Millennials are actually cheering for a housing market crash on Twitter so they can afford a home. It seems the very image of entitlement.www.ccn.com
While incomes have not increased at a rate paired with inflation. You are mistaking that the primary cause of these problems are neo liberal policies driving up costs.
Health Care: should have gone full socialists but the party's Union, trial lawyer, and health care worker base rebelled at the thought of lower incomes. Obviously the GOP is more guilty on this, but at least Ryan's plan called for removing health care from employment.
College: cheap loans and administrative requirements have drastically increased the cost of a 4 year degree in blue states. The administration apparatus is basically the beneficiary of all additional revenue from the cheap loans.
Housing: baby boomers in partnership with the left have basically made it impossible to build new housing in in-demand regions (but amazingly easy to buy the unit or building next door and combine them), preserving views, traffic, and home values. Meanwhile the left through the insistence of impact studies, arbitrarily high wages, impact fees. The cost of construction and affordable unit in CA is now approaching $1 million per home. AOC got elected on this stupidity.
Food, transportation, technology, and even utility costs are cheaper than ever. Incomes have not increased with productivity or inflation, but the biggest detriment to millennials had been healthcare , housing, and education in that order.
Is it really wrong though? For every boomer that has made a fortune on property, there are equally indebted newer home buyers. There are a lot of home owners that aren't 60 or older.
No one should be cheering for a housing crash, you want housing to plateau or reduce slightly and become less of a speculative investment.
Every housing market is different in every location but seeing a large portion of your population have more debt than their property is worth has major flow on effects throughout the rest of the economy.
Should it be cheered for those who spent 10-15 years saving for their first home to see 30-50% of the value wiped within a few years of purchasing? It may make it easier to purchase a home but it'll sure as hell also impact the amount of money being spent in your retail and service industries, ultimately hurting many aspirational home owners in the process.
It's not all hopeless. Through technology, our quality of life is so much higher now that I'd rather be renting now than be owning in 1970. There are tons of free self-learning courses on the internet to empower the individual. The internet has also made living in more remote or suburban areas much more palatable. So while the middle class cannot afford Manhattan apartments, they can still buy further out and be able to enjoy a high QoL. Is it nearly the same as having the correct economic and health policies? Absolutely not. Is owning a home the end-all be-all of being successful or the only path to retirement? Also absolutely not.
Hell, at the pace we're going we'll be the first generation to have really immersive VR in our old age. That's something that would be worth the world to the elderly who cannot even enjoy the fruits of their wealth anymore.
While I agree with this in principal, what it really translates economically to is "raise the level of competition in all entry-level employment" which translates to "depressed wages for lower-tier workers/more productivity for corp/shareholders". Can an individual win the rat race? Yes. But the race is more intense now than it has ever been, and it not need be.
Perhaps in the short term. But in the long term, the more educated public will benefit.
Yup. Aspiring entertainer here (1993) and had plans to get signed in Hollywood this year. That's not happening now. Still living with my parents.
The only upshot of everything is that maybe, just maybe, our royally fucked generation will do things differently down the line. Covid shows up so many inconsistencies in how we live and work and the monetary system that is a cage for all but the ultra elite. Maybe we will finally do something revolutionary. Hence why those with the money and power are ramping up authoritarian policies to quash the people. Hopefully we all revolt one day.
Its not that I don't think society benefits from free knowledge, more that I find the phrase "empower the individual" is a nice, capitalistic euphemism for "bootstraps". Instead of bootstrapping yourself through a factory gig/trade apprenticeship, you can bootstrap yourself with a free coding bootcamp where you can learn the Bootstrap framework!
That was just bullshit fed to millenials by boomer parents/teachers/guidance counselors.
I saw this on the first page, and not sure if someone responded to this already but no one I know has mobility or personal fuffilment. Everyone in my entire millenial social circle bar one person is either clinging to dear life on a dead end job or unemployed doing their best on some gig economy shit.
And what of other countries, with public healthcare and education (feel like housing is a global problem...) where millenials are still fucked?
You must be unfamiliar with the new economy friend. The only way to get a pay raise is to change jobs
Eh, I think saying that the individual can be empowered != everyone else should be ashamed and suffer because they didn't do it themselves.
I think that this applies to a lot of countries outside the US. I'm 26, so I'm in the tail end of the group to be considered a millennial.
I'm lucky to be able to hold down a job for now, but while the salary's not bad the cost of life has increased so fucking much that no matter how much I save up the idea of getting my own place to live is not an option. Even if I rented, I probably would make it to the end of the month with the account in a zero due to bills and groceries so I just live with my mother - cheaper for both of us and thankfully I get along well with her (plus if I didn't help her financially she wouldn't make ends met, either, since social security sucks unless you're in a welfare state).
The college degree (and the debt associated) is tons of times the minimum to get a low paying job, which is freaking insane. The high school diploma has almost no value now. I've know people that if they pay their student debt they can't pay rent or eat that month since wages are so fucking low, so we're stuck in a vicious circle in that sense, too. Study and get debt for alow paying job, or don't study and not find a job.
I'm lucky to be able to hold down a job for now, but while the salary's not bad the cost of life has increased so fucking much that no matter how much I save up the idea of getting my own place to live is not an option. Even if I rented, I probably would make it to the end of the month with the account in a zero due to bills and groceries so I just live with my mother - cheaper for both of us and thankfully I get along well with her (plus if I didn't help her financially she wouldn't make ends met, either, since social security sucks unless you're in a welfare state).
The college degree (and the debt associated) is tons of times the minimum to get a low paying job, which is freaking insane. The high school diploma has almost no value now. I've know people that if they pay their student debt they can't pay rent or eat that month since wages are so fucking low, so we're stuck in a vicious circle in that sense, too. Study and get debt for alow paying job, or don't study and not find a job.
I wouldn't say that it's about following your passion, it's just that choices are driven with greater value put on work/life balance and sense of purpose. Maybe your job doesn't really interest you, but you find a position that allows you more free-time to pursue your interests on an extracuricular basis, and don't fall into positions that will routinely demand your attention outside of the 9-5.
If you're just going to write off any and all office work as "soul-crushing" then yeah prospects are going to seem pretty awful. If you refuse positions in the retail/service/hospitality sector as well, there's not much left to do but trades, civil service, or research.
What are the quality jobs that have been destroyed or eliminated?
I applied for like 60 jobs, both from my industry (it support/webdev) and random industries last month and didn't get a call back from one. Most jobs, according to the site I applied on had 100 other applicants minimum.
My girlfriend busts her ass in game dev everyday and got her hours cut because a sister company fucked up and lost a contract.
The issue is not that choosy millenials are picking lazy cushy jobs.
So I'm curious. Does anyone here think that maybe boomers had less to spend on? Do you think millennials (I'm a millennial) just overspend on things outside of saving for a home? Or is that just a product of just having no hope to save enough because everything is so damn expensive?
Finally. Thank you. I already reported 2 disrespectful people.
I am 32 and yeah got fucked over just after High School and going to be fucked over this. Gen Z is pretty much experiencing what we dealt with back in 2008.
Nah shit is just more expensive and wages/salaries have not matched the increased price of goods. It is pretty hard to save a whole bunch. I am currently lucky and have some decent savings stored away. But I know a ton of people who essentially live paycheck to paycheck.
i make a good wage, but not in NYC. It's brutal. Feels like I'm also living paycheck to paycheck sometimes.
Time to move somewhere cheaper. I lived in NJ for the first 7yrs of my career. I sometimes joked that I saved so much money with the 2hr roundtrip commute that my career was only my 2nd highest paying job.
Yeah this is all kind of a side point but I think it's extremely defeatist when people talk about how the only viable careers come across as "soul crushing". If someone is working a job and feeling that way then I would encourage them to speak to some kind of career counselor or coach and try to figure out some sort of plan of action to get out of that rut.
I don't disagree with the notion that Boomers had it easier but that doesn't mean there's almost literally no one out there with a viable career that they enjoy most days.
I'd move to jersey over NY. At least homes can be somewhat affordable there.
COVID has exposed a perfect storm of bullshit that folks in their 30s have already been hip to.
- Gig-based job market where companies can push part-time rules to the limit to avoid giving employees full compensation packages and health benefits
- Shareholder value™ as defining corporate mandate means that gig-based job market persists in as mercenary a way as possible
- Massive C-level compensation packages that have increased 1,000% in the past 40 years while workforce salaries have stagnated, leading to CEOs making 278 times the salary of their average employee
- Very few negative consequences for high level greed and mismanagement that resulted in 2008 disaster
- The average job posting receives 250 applications of which 2% are selected for an interview, and the interview process takes over a month; we can do the math to figure out that thousands and thousands of potential qualified workers are being left out in the cold
- Rising expenses are not related to plateaued salary growth, so many people can't save and are a given month away from being unable to pay their bills
- Astronomical debt to pursue a higher education, which often doesn't actually lead to a job where you can pay back what you owe
- Low wages and debt lead to people living paycheck to paycheck into their 30s and 40s, which means they'll never sniff the true golden ticket of wealth: property ownership and asset acquisition
- This situation prices people out of not just home ownership and investments, but having kids, travel, even being able to buy healthy food
It sucks. I've been able to hustle and work my way through to be in a good position in life, but there was a good amount of luck involved. If something really goes wrong, I could be singing a different tune in two or three months.
- Gig-based job market where companies can push part-time rules to the limit to avoid giving employees full compensation packages and health benefits
- Shareholder value™ as defining corporate mandate means that gig-based job market persists in as mercenary a way as possible
- Massive C-level compensation packages that have increased 1,000% in the past 40 years while workforce salaries have stagnated, leading to CEOs making 278 times the salary of their average employee
- Very few negative consequences for high level greed and mismanagement that resulted in 2008 disaster
- The average job posting receives 250 applications of which 2% are selected for an interview, and the interview process takes over a month; we can do the math to figure out that thousands and thousands of potential qualified workers are being left out in the cold
- Rising expenses are not related to plateaued salary growth, so many people can't save and are a given month away from being unable to pay their bills
- Astronomical debt to pursue a higher education, which often doesn't actually lead to a job where you can pay back what you owe
- Low wages and debt lead to people living paycheck to paycheck into their 30s and 40s, which means they'll never sniff the true golden ticket of wealth: property ownership and asset acquisition
- This situation prices people out of not just home ownership and investments, but having kids, travel, even being able to buy healthy food
It sucks. I've been able to hustle and work my way through to be in a good position in life, but there was a good amount of luck involved. If something really goes wrong, I could be singing a different tune in two or three months.
Back in the 00's and 10's that is often at least how millennials were described in the myriad of articles about their place in the workforce -- they were less loyal to their employers, more likely to quit and move somewhere else, more interested in a job that gives them a sense of purpose, less interested in working themselves to the bone so they can make 15% more money. Even today you see them described as less materialistic, more interested in experiences and ideas than they are in possesions. Maybe it was all horseshit, I dunno. Sociology is not really an exact science and I've always been skeptical about drawing generalizations across a broadly defined demographic like age. It always gave me a certain affintiy and empathy for them though, since I always happily trade money for free time and would rather have a job I can at least tolerate over one that leaves me frustrated and stressed out. I don't think Millennials are looking for jobs that are "lazy and cushy", but I definitely think it's possible that their preferences in terms of work/life balance have probably been turned against them in the form of lower wages or more stagnant wages.
In America at least, I think people have a general tendency to just live slightly beyond their means. So no matter where you're at it feels like you are clawing and scraping and struggling for more. Which is not to say that Millennials don't have it hard (or harder than previous generations), but the perception of almost anyone in the middle-class or lower is that they're just barely getting by.
Articles that pooh-pooh labeled generations have been around for...well...generations. I've been reading them for that long.
Every generation since X has been called a "Me" generation. But unlike X, other generations have higher populations and thus voting power. So look forward and outward, not downward reading articles. At least with the pandemic, people are finally acknowledging that going "back to normal" is no longer possible.
Every generation since X has been called a "Me" generation. But unlike X, other generations have higher populations and thus voting power. So look forward and outward, not downward reading articles. At least with the pandemic, people are finally acknowledging that going "back to normal" is no longer possible.
It's projection by financial publications to justify a shitty job market by victim blaming the participants. Of course people are moving to other jobs (or trying to, don't think anyone is moving anymore) to try and make more money when their current job is fucking them in the ass and not given them mobility or a raise in years.