Yes. We will keep trying as long as we can to fight for our freedom and our country, it is not clear wether we failed this time or not. I, along with tens of thousands of Venezuelans will be on the street tomorrow, and if we fail we will stills try again and again. You are right about that
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Military uprising taking place in Venezuela (See Staff Post)
- Thread starter Noodle
- Start date
Yes. We will keep trying as long as we can to fight for our freedom and our country, it is not clear wether we failed this time or not. I, along with tens of thousands of Venezuelans will be on the street tomorrow, and if we fail we will stills try again and again. You are right about that
Lopez is in the Spanish embassy
Outcome so far:
Translation: Lopez inChilean (since confirmed Spanish) embassy, 25 militaries refuged in Brazilian embassy, 57 people treated at the hospital. Her follow-up tweet: In the morning we thought this would be Paraguay scenario, now it looks more Turkey-type.
Outcome so far:
Translation: Lopez in
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This coup attempted was ill prepared. I cannot even see it compared to the failed Turkey coup. I mean in Turkey you had a large part of the Army involved including several high profile generals. They seized some TV station, some key strategic points like bridges and they tried to take over the Parlament.
I don't know what Guaido was trying to do here, that's was very weird and amateurish. I think that rather to have the means to pull out a coup, I think he tried something more along the lines of Arab spring demonstrations that led to several regime changes after the Army stepped in. Recently we had two more example in Sudan and Algeria. Thet's the only parallels I could see.
He is still calling for more demonstrations, not sure how the turn out will be after yesturday events.
So breaking news in earlier of the day but it seems the head of the secret police joined sides with the rebellion, this thing isn't over. Pretty sure Maduro was the one saying they lost but it's just begun, I saw an emotional vid of a military guy switching sides and was being hugged by his loved ones, they know that they've had enough and for a better future, change needs to happen.
Imagine being called an amateur at coup attempts, lol.
Is this a category for most people? Hugo Chavez failed with his first attempt too. Does that put Guiado at the same level as Hugo? In any case we (who are paying attention) know Guiado is really working under the ditect guidance of Leopoldo Lopez.
Is this a category for most people? Hugo Chavez failed with his first attempt too. Does that put Guiado at the same level as Hugo? In any case we (who are paying attention) know Guiado is really working under the ditect guidance of Leopoldo Lopez.
Figuera's note started to circulate 20hrs ago giving support to the theory that they pushed forward the uprising while still negotiating with key military - but did not get enough support/deals in place.
I wonder if springing Lopez played a part. One would imagine that's difficult to keep Maduro and co from finding out about, and it rather obviously signals that something is about go down. So it may have added a pressure to move up the timetable even though the actually necessary parts weren't in place.
I trust what Mely Reye's reported - they got a tip that Guaido was about to get arrested so they needed to push forward, getting Lopez out with help of secret police was part of the operation but was also pushed forward. Unfortunately it looks like momentum is gone for now.
good news in all of this is that incredibly there's only one reported death and AP reported that in Caracas of the 60 or so in hospital 30 of those were treated for rubber bullets, 16 sustained bodily trauma, three reported difficulty breathing from tear gas and one was shot with a firearm but not in critical condition.
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"Operation Freedom"
Because doing nothing was working out so great for Venezuela.
Doing something worked out great for Iraq, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Haiti, Vietnam etc etc
Being taken over by oil companies (that have no qualms whatsoever with oppressive dictatorships as long as they're on the US' side) is going to be such an improvement instead
Guaido is just another Blaise Compaoré
One of the greatest issues in American foreign policy is seeing a fucked up situation and thinking "we have to do something"
Also, anyone who keeps mentioning the US is gong to invade because of oil needs to never, ever talk about foreign or domestic oil production ever again rofl
Or foreign policy in general
No, they didn't but where is your positive argument for doing nothing about Maduro? This isn't simply about what the US does or not.
Why are you ignoring the fact that right now Russia and China own Maduro and are perfectly fine with the status quo? And unlike the US Russia has shipped soldiers and military vehicles there.
Again, this is about the US - this doesn't explain how leaving Maduro is going to help anyone there. He's there regardless of what the US does.
If it means getting basic necessities like food, water and electricity back, then yeah, it would be an improvement.
Guatemala currently is doing a lot better than Venezuela's lol
By nothing you mean crippling the country with sanctions and backing a coup?
I'm simply not particularly interested in picking a side between rival imperialists
If you were interested in the well-being of the population you wouldn't cheer on the Americans stepping in
the sanctions didn't cripple the economy, that was all on Maduro. Stop supporting this Russian/Maduro narrative. Go away if you don't know what you're talking about. Thank you.
The sanctions were very recent, Maduro was destroying the county long before that occurred. Maduro is illegitimate, he's the one pulling a coup.
All members of that population here have supported Guaido (or anything to get rid of Maduro). I think they know best. Not even responding to the fable that the "Americans are stepping in".
Some of you guys are going to be in for a shock when you learn the US gets involved in other foreign affairs when there isn't any oil involved and the world doesn't revolve around 2003 memes
When all you have is hope, watching your leader bumble-around ineffectually trying to crowd-source a military coup on YouTube is not helpful.
When these dorks in the opposition are the best that can stand against Maduro, there is little wonder as to why he hasn't been deposed yet.
You already did with your argument.
I'm not cheering America coming in (which they haven't), but something must be done. It's not like the left is offering another substantial, realistic option. Upthread a poster wanted further negotiation but it was explained that was done and went nowhere.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Inflammatory generalisations and dismissive commentary over a series of posts
You mean upper class (and most likely white) Venezuelans that could afford an education to speak English and posting on this board?
I'd like to hear what those below that threshold want too
Guaido has an ~80% approval rating for being active President and 60% overall approval raiting
It's one of those things where if it doesn't go really well the first time you try to you don't tend to get another crack at it.
You come at the King you best not miss and all that.
Holy shit. The mask comes off.
People who have been starved for 3 years are privileged people trying to ruin it for Dear Socialist Dictator. Christ, there's no reasoning with you.
100% you are more privileged and upper classed then they are.
Every dumbass can learn English, as evidenced by your racist ass post.
Are you trying to pull a "reverse racism" accusation because I implied white people don't get to speak on behalf of all of Venezuela?
This may be an exception where one shot is not the only chance. Maduro probably knows he can't hurt Guaido or the international community will launch reprisals.
This is the problem in this thread. That notion that this complex conflict is as simple a choosing between A and B is nonsense. This reminds me when George W Bush was saying either you're with Us or with the terrorists...
The Neocons had their eyes on Venezuela for years. And the fact that guys like Bolton, Pompeo or Elliot Abrams are all over this is enough for me to raise multiple red flags. Another US sponsored regime change ? No I won't support that and I'm not supporting Maduro either. I support negotiations lead by a credible brocker - not the US or Russia.
There are no negotiations to be made. Maduro just wants to keep power, and is backed by Russia who won't let him back down. This is a very stupid take.
I don't think most of the fence setters internally would be terribly heartened by Guaido's chances after today, but it's true he may have another go at it true, assuming Maduro doesn't arrest or kill him.
But you can pretty easily imagine a scenario where Guaido is dead or in exile in the near future.
The people I'm arguing with in this thread don't want sanctions, either.
Agreed.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Antagonizing other members over a series of posts, conspiratorial rhetoric, and downplaying dictatorship
Really interesting how enormously oppressive dictator Maduro is just letting Guadio waltz around after everything that he's tried to pull, including leaving the country and doing a tour of the US and openly calling for a foreign country to intervene
https://www.france24.com/en/20190209-venezuela-guaido-not-rule-out-authorising-us-intervention
really makes you think
Gotta laugh at the people jumping on you for that post. Class and ethnicity are hugely relevant to this conflict and many poorer (read: brown) voices aren't heard at all.
Youse should watch this mexie video, y'know
As a lot of people seem to be having difficulties grasping the situation, let's explain it with a fictional example.
Imagine Trump going full dictator in the US and sinking the economy to the point where supermarkets are basically empty. Imagine this going on until 2020, with the military backing him along with Russia and crushing any resistance. Imagine him blatantly rigging the elections, and declaring himself president again in 2020. Imagine Pelosi declaring that election unlawful, calling for him to step down and declaring herself interim-president, until new elections can be organised. Imagine European nations recognising Pelosi as the interim president, and calling on Trump to step down, despite Trump having absolutely no intentions to do so.
Now imagine all you fuckers saying "the UK backs Pelosi, so both are bad in this scenario!", "Trump is the president by law"', "even if Trump's not president, it should be Pence", "Pelosi's just a UK stooge, we can't back a UK backed coup", and so on. Because that is essentially what's happening here. A both sides narrative parroted, the same propaganda thrown in here that Maduro and his Russian backers have been shouting from the rooftops.
So yes, sincerely fuck off with anything that is not a full condemnation of Maduro, and recognition he has to go.
Imagine Trump going full dictator in the US and sinking the economy to the point where supermarkets are basically empty. Imagine this going on until 2020, with the military backing him along with Russia and crushing any resistance. Imagine him blatantly rigging the elections, and declaring himself president again in 2020. Imagine Pelosi declaring that election unlawful, calling for him to step down and declaring herself interim-president, until new elections can be organised. Imagine European nations recognising Pelosi as the interim president, and calling on Trump to step down, despite Trump having absolutely no intentions to do so.
Now imagine all you fuckers saying "the UK backs Pelosi, so both are bad in this scenario!", "Trump is the president by law"', "even if Trump's not president, it should be Pence", "Pelosi's just a UK stooge, we can't back a UK backed coup", and so on. Because that is essentially what's happening here. A both sides narrative parroted, the same propaganda thrown in here that Maduro and his Russian backers have been shouting from the rooftops.
So yes, sincerely fuck off with anything that is not a full condemnation of Maduro, and recognition he has to go.
Guaido just wants to take the power for himself, and is backed by America (GOP in particular) who won't let him back down.
Like in the Cold War, that the Russians were the villains didn't mean the Americans were the heroes instead just because they opposed them, in fact they were villains too.
Lmao are you serious, today's UK isn't even close to the oppressive superpower that the US is making your metaphor severely disigenuous