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Knight613

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,668
San Francisco
Ofcourse no denying that. But him being a developer or executive is irrelevant in this case because in this context he is a gamer. He is expressing his opinion about a 3rd party game. People coming in here with their own terrible hot takes about co-marketing and console bundles conspiracy is what I am calling out. His tweet could very well have be an era post.
You're being pretty disingenuous if you think people on here making that kind of post would have anywhere near the same kind of reach an Microsoft executive would have in making it.

You can pretty much guarantee that rabid fanboys will be using those tweets as some sort of go ahead sign to harass reviewers that give scores they don't agree with. Whether intentional or not.

It's not about whether he's a gamer or not. It's about the position he's in and being responsible about it.
 

Deleted member 50969

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 17, 2018
892

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,093
That's not what that user is referring to. They're talking about the "It comes out on Friday" tweet and all of the responses in this thread that it's been out since last Friday. When it has not for Xbox.
He made that tweet responding to someone saying it was rushed out, as he's saying the game isn't even out yet. But the game is out already, and EA deemed it ready for review.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
And this is exactly the problem. Not all executives in the industry are out of touch non-gamers who only care about profits though those types certainly do exist. Why cant they be gamers and enjoy games like us ? Because they make a ton of money ?
Of course they can. So why didn't he just say that?

I think an executive can say he's enjoying a game without calling someone a whiner or embarrassing.
 

Lyrick

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,818
Criticizing them unfairly actually which is the point of this entire thread.

How is showing saying how easy it is to do a combo then calling out an unnamed review for literally publishing their inability to do one within their review unfair?

It's unprofessional given his position, and you can piece together bad optics given some outside circumstances, but that section of the review should be called out.
 
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Luckydog

Attempting to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
636
USA
And this is exactly the problem. Not all executives in the industry are out of touch non-gamers who only care about profits though those types certainly do exist. Why cant they be gamers and enjoy games like us ? Because they make a ton of money ?

Also just fyi i find that tweet totally unprofessional. :)

Because it is so much easier to tear down someone you dont know, without a shred of proof, because they said something you dont like. And if they are an exec of a game company, even better. An exec of MS....hot diggity dog start the fires!
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,019
He made that tweet responding to someone saying it was rushed out, as he's saying the game isn't even out yet. But the game is out already, and EA deemed it ready for review.
I don't have a horse in this race so I'm not getting into it, but the user you quoted was correcting people with incorrect information. That's it.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
i haven't played anthem so i don't know if not knowing how to combo or whatever is a valid complaint.

Maybe if you read the last page of this thread you could see that an actual journalism chimed in and showed that it isn't a valid complaint.

but I do know is that the thread title mentions him calling all critics of anthem whiners, where in fact its just one unnamed review, so i am guessing people are not reading the actual tweet?

There are multiple tweets actually. But again, you'd have to read the thread to figure this out.

seems innocent enough, I too would like people that get paid to review games to be as informed as possible.
[

Are you a VP of Microsoft though? Again, it's a common theme with these "oh what he says makes sense" type comments is you don't put any context behind the fact that what he says and what you or I say are not the same thing. Also to reiterate, Ybarra is wrong about this as well.

anyway nothing to get worked up about. the man is entitled to his opinion.

I'm reading the tweets and it's incredible that you and others cannot apply this same exact logic to Ybarra himself.

And as for his take on the modern review or whatever, I agree with him. i myself base my purchasing decisions on watching gameplay and recommendations from friends who know my tastes in games. i haven't read a written review in years and a suspect a lot of people are the same way. i see some people twisting these tweets into something else entirely, that is what I find amusing.

Except streamers are not reviewing the games at all. In some cases they're getting paid to play the game. Relying on streamers to present the game accurately when it's clear that some of them are getting paid by the companies that are releasing the games is some weird ass logic in and of itself. I'll also say anyone who has watched a stream of Anthem (I've watched KingGothalion play it quite a bit) and thinks this game isn't a gigantic fucking mess is delusional. No one is saying you can't enjoy the game or like it but that doesn't mean the game isn't a fucking mess too.
 

Masagiwa

Member
Jan 27, 2018
9,899
Streamers don't miss anything! It is virtually impossible! Their understanding of games is completely thorough, inside and ou--



...oh.


giphy.webp
 

NitX

Lead Developer
Verified
Aug 20, 2018
158
You're being pretty disingenuous if you think people on here making that kind of post would have anywhere near the same kind of reach an Microsoft executive would have in making it.

You can pretty much guarantee that rabid fanboys will be using those tweets as some sort of go ahead sign to harass reviewers that give scores they don't agree with. Whether intentional or not.

It's not about whether he's a gamer or not. It's about the position he's in and being responsible about it.

Not being disingenuous at all. The reach of that person has nothing to do with the tweet. Should he have been more professional and worded that differently ? Absolutely. Its a terrible take and i am guessing he is going to get a visit from a MS PR rep soon.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
So people should be selective with their criticism?

I'll be honest I really have no idea why anyone would ask this question.

How is showing how easy it is to do a combo then calling out an unnamed review for literally publishing their inability to do one within their review unfair?

Because the game does a TERRIBLE job showing how to do combos itself? It's buried in like two levels of some codex?
 

Games

Member
Oct 27, 2017
452
Look, the concept of "some abilities set up combos and other abilities trigger them" is self-evident just from playing the game -- the Storm's starting abilities do exactly that, so at least with that javelin it's hard to miss..

From what I have played of the game so far (three of the four javelins) Storm is the only one in which you have obvious combo skills equipped by default. If I didn't play Storm first, I'd have absolutely no idea how combos functioned.

This entire thread is embarrassing anyway. Stop defending the unprofessional asshole. The challenges suck, the combo system is obtuse when combined with the current terrible UI, and the tutorials are almost nonexistant. I've had waypoints disappear, I've been warped around, I've been warned about not being in the combat area while definitely being in the combat area (I had to fly backwards and exit the instance in order to prevent it from constantly warping me back to the entrance of the instance I was supposed to be in), I've entered quests I've never completed half way through, the revive system has broken completely for me multiple times, and finally, I had to play the final mission in the game four times just to get the gates to function properly.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't expect anyone to know anything about this game. I wouldn't assume they have seen any tips they're supposed to see, because it's all broken.

EDIT: Just to add to this, the combo system doesn't even matter. You don't need to use it at all throughout the game, you can still have fun with your abilities, you can still shoot monsters in the face. Failing to know a combo system exists would not affect a review in the slightest.
 
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Kage Maru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,804
Criticizing them unfairly actually which is the point of this entire thread.

I think the point of the thread was lost when people start trying to drag other people from the company through the mud.

And this is exactly the problem. Not all executives in the industry are out of touch non-gamers who only care about profits though those types certainly do exist. Why cant they be gamers and enjoy games like us ? Because they make a ton of money ?

Also just fyi i find that tweet totally unprofessional. :)

I get what you're saying and agree to an extent. He's only human and a gamer, so he can make the same mistakes any one of us can make. That is completely true and why I think some of the posts in here are a bit much. However he, and every other person in the industry, holds some level of influence and should be aware of what their words or actions may cause. While his tweet was in poor taste and will anger or annoy reviewers, that part will blow over eventually. It's the gamers, or fanboys really, who will hold onto words like this to justify their harassment of journalists. That's where the big issue is IMO. Hopefully he is more mindful of that in the future.
 
Jun 22, 2018
2,154
I do agree that reviewers should establish a better than average knowledge of the game they are reviewing. That way it can be reviewed from the point of view of being an expert on the subject rather than just some random kid with a blog spouting their opinion.

I also agree that watching streamers or friends play a game is often much more meaningful than just looking at metacritic review scores.
 

Knight613

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,668
San Francisco
Not being disingenuous at all. The reach of that person has nothing to do with the tweet. Should he have been more professional and worded that differently ? Absolutely. Its a terrible take and i am guessing he is going to get a visit from a MS PR rep soon.
The amount of people that a tweet reaches should definitely give the tweet more criticism.

He's not just a random guy screaming fake news. He'd be more like Mitch McConnell screaming fake news.
 

mas8705

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,497
He's entitled to his opinion, but given his position, I don't think he should have posted this.

It almost seems like irony at this point of how some people who are higher up on the branch don't really pay notice to the words they say and the impact that can bring. It almost reminds me of the whole, "Well for those who can't afford and Xbox One, we have another system they can enjoy called the Xbox 360," mess that came and how a few choice words and ideas caused them to stumble out of the gate at the start of this gen.

As for Anthem itself, I'm holding off judgment myself until I get it this Friday. Regardless of the good or bad things said, I can wait for me to have my personal thoughts on it.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
And you wonder why we have ridiculous day 1 review embargoes and publishers are now trying to fleece gamers to buy 1~2 weeks "early"?

They scream bloody murder and run for their pillows to hug if there is some basic critical feedback, the most fragile of industries.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
And this is exactly the problem. Not all executives in the industry are out of touch non-gamers who only care about profits though those types certainly do exist. Why cant they be gamers and enjoy games like us ? Because they make a ton of money ?

Also just fyi i find that tweet totally unprofessional. :) [/QUOTE]




I don't really care if he's a real gamer or not , either way he is a well compensated agent of a global multinational and his public facing statements ought be judged from that perspective. I'm just glad you agree it was unprofessional. Did not really get that sense from your previous posts.
edit:
especially since you didn't respond to the part where I pointed out it was disingenuous at best to claim that he doesn't have skin in the game because it's not an internal ms product, like you had to cut that out of my response to you.

idk why it won't let me delete the quote tags in edit (shakes fist).
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,605
You mean the ones MS have paid to 'review' it?

There are thousands of streamers who are just regular ass dudes/girls from even this very forum who stream games. Just click on a game, go to the bottom of the list and those guys with like 0-100 viewers are where you're going to get an honest takes/impressions.
 

NitX

Lead Developer
Verified
Aug 20, 2018
158
The amount of people that a tweet reaches should definitely give the tweet more criticism.

He's not just a random guy screaming fake news. He'd be more like Mitch McConnell screaming fake news.

Right and I definitely overlooked the side effect of the rabid fanboys possibly harassing the reviewer which is obviously terrible.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
How is showing saying how easy it is to do a combo then calling out an unnamed review for literally publishing their inability to do one within their review unfair?

It's unprofessional given his position, and you can piece together bad optics given some outside circumstances, but that section of the review should be called out.
Corporate mouthpieces don't get to criticize critics, sorry.
 

Prime2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,338
I do find it hilarious to read the responses in here then see people say about " MS Paid streamers" same for the some of the journalists who replied to the original tweet. Seems kinda ironic to criticize the tweet and tarring of all reviewers to then tar all streamers with being paid off...
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
There's certainly "embarrassing whining" going on, but I don't think most of it is coming from the reviewers.
 

Deleted member 15440

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
I do find it hilarious to read the responses in here then see people say about " MS Paid streamers" same for the some of the journalists who replied to the original tweet. Seems kinda ironic to criticize the tweet and tarring of all reviewers to then tar all streamers with being paid off...
streamers do often get paid to play certain games on or near release. half the people i follow on twitch had #ad or #sponsored in their apex legends stream titles last week.
 

Lyrick

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,818
I'll be honest I really have no idea why anyone would ask this question.



Because the game does a TERRIBLE job showing how to do combos itself? It's buried in like two levels of some codex?
The "codex" is the menu
Then you go to Tutorials
Then you hunt for Combo

But you COMPLETELY ignored the posts paragraph that you're trying to use as evidence of something that's not quite the case
Look, the concept of "some abilities set up combos and other abilities trigger them" is self-evident just from playing the game -- the Storm's starting abilities do exactly that, so at least with that javelin it's hard to miss.
 

Prime2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,338
streamers do often get paid to play certain games on or near release. half the people i follow on twitch had #ad or #sponsored in their apex legends stream titles last week.

Yes they do which is generally seen in the twitch channel name for that time, but not all do and to tar them all as that is as bad as tarring all reviewers under the git gud thought
 

TinfoilHatsROn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,119
.


Did you read the second paragraph? The basic combo system is extremely obvious. Info on maximizing its potential is not.
Yes? Not sure what that has to do with my post. I'm sure everyone can stumble on 'basic combos' accidently since watching a YT video on Anthem shows the system in play. That doesn't mean the game explains it well or hell, shows how combos should work if you're not doing some aspect of it correctly. You wouldn't 'understand' basic combo systems since the game didn't explain that aspect. Which since it's a loot shooter I'd expect it to do. Plus the other classes don't seem to have basic combo systems set up in skills from what I read but who knows, I haven't bought the full game. Just here pointing out shallow criticisms against game journalists.
Also keep in mind that:
A. The Anthem devs themselves are literally patching in systems that explain how the combo system work for everyone and improving the user experience (apparently)
And
B. Patrick himself explained further in what he meant in this very thread
 

RedbullCola

Member
Oct 26, 2017
593
I just checked out Mike's Xbox profile (since he lists it publicly), he hasn't unlocked the achievement for Tomb quest which he tweeted about saying was "easy".
 

-Tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,560
The 'whole other part' of his tweet was wrong too.
Wrong about what?

it only seems like nonsense if you ignore the subtext that a guy who has a stake in the success of a product would try to send people somewhere they're much more likely to find sources that have been compensated for positive coverage of that product. it doesn't in any way imply that streams are an invalid way to gather information or form an opinion, and no one is saying that. they're just held to a lower standard of integrity, which in the context of this tweet, who is saying it, and why they're saying it, is a completely fair and reasonable point to make. so it seems weird that you put so much effort into defending him.

Does it look like I am defending him? I am defending twitch as a platform for "modern reviews", which it 100% is and a very good one at that.
 

Deleted member 15440

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
4,191
Yes they do which is generally seen in the twitch channel name for that time, but not all do and to tar them all as that is as bad as tarring all reviewers under the git gud thought
nobody is saying that all streamers are paid, but if your attitude when you get a critical review is "don't listen to those guys, go watch streams instead" when lots of the streamers have in fact been paid and are openly incentivized to promote the game, that's pretty scummy
 

Prime2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,338
nobody is saying that all streamers are paid, but if your attitude when you get a critical review is "don't listen to those guys, go watch streams instead" when lots of the streamers have in fact been paid and are openly incentivized to promote the game, that's pretty scummy

Actually looking through this thread and his original tweet a fair amount of the responses are saying exactly that..
 

Deleted member 11421

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,935
I just checked out Mike's Xbox profile (since he lists it publicly), he hasn't unlocked the achievement for Tomb quest which he tweeted about saying was "easy".

The PC Origin Access Premier is unlimited, I would assume he'd be playing on there rather than the 10 hour limit on Xbox and get locked out of beating it lol
 

OwOtacon

Alt Account
Banned
Dec 18, 2018
2,394
It's not a good game. Maybe attacking people who criticise the game your company has a big expensive marketing deal with is sketchy. Actually, remove the maybe.