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Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
I don't think it's too great a leap. He published the review not knowing how to do combos. That's what the tweet says. Hence he released his final thoughts on the game having never used or seen the combo system and not really understanding it. I think as a professional reviewer he should have gone the extra step and learned about it, not to give the game a pass on it, but because I feel that is part of his job and his obligation as a professional reviewer of video games. Now Ybarra might have totally misread it or might be misrepresenting the review(or it might not even exist in the first place), but based on all the evidence I think the reviewer did a poor job.
You are just straight up making things up to make your point though?
Ybarra said the reviewer said they didn't know how to do combos. Meaning
1) They knew combos were a thing but in playing through the game never learned them either due to the games bad design or his own incompetence (presumably if it was the second part in his eyes they would have excluded them from their review entirely)
2) They didn't need them for to finish the game. (Something others have mentioned, including Patrick Klepek in this very thread!)

You are jumping to conclusions about the quality of the review by making things up that we have literally no knowledge about.
 

scaryrobots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,130
Doing Robot things
giphy.gif




come on mike.........a paid streamer. You have to think better than this

or you can watch people who aren't sponsored to play it. I mean, there's a lot of them. lol
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,365
He's not just any man though is he? Are you telling me that if Shaun Layden came out during Days Gone reviews and streams telling reviewers this and belittling their work compared to streamers that it wouldn't get ripped to shreds too? Come on...

There are some things that people in power shouldn't wade into.

Well i have never been in a position where my opinion on something would be picked apart and turned into a whole discussion thread for people to dogpile on so i can't imagine the concept of having to keep quiet but it's an interesting thing to debate i guess. Should someone who works for a company in a certain industry not be allowed to comment on it? At what level of seniority does it become ok to discuss or give their opinion on something? I totally get the argument behind the whole "every tweet must be corporately vetted lest you speak out of line" thing but isn't that basically fucking up the idea of free speech? Personally i can't think of anything more depressing than every single person who works in gaming having zero opinions on anything because of the wrath of Resetera etc.
 

Navid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,021
(Psst, you don't even need to understand combos to beat the game on normal. That's pretty weird!)
Isn't this trying to be a Diablo-like loot game where you are incentivised to continue replaying missions on harder and harder difficulties for better loot..?

I for one haven't played it and probably wont pick it up but wondering how fair it is to dismiss a mechanic simply due to it being not necessary on the normal difficulty. For example I went through normal difficulty in Diablo 3 by just using basic attacks and abilities and didn't need to delve deeper into it's systems and potential build styles until harder difficulties.

Do you think this might apply to Anthem or am I giving it too much credit?
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,666
So... what if all the streamers I watch don't like it, and I played the demo and didn't like it, and all my friends don't like it... AND all of the "reviews" didn't like it, either... are we still wrong?
 

Rei no Otaku

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,346
Cranston RI
So today we side with the press only to shit on them the next time some hilariously bad Gameplay videos like Polygon's Doom Gameplay come out?
Anthem is the current whipping boy so it's OK to side with the press on this. Now let's say a review criticizes a new From Software game or a Nintendo game. You'll see a very different story around here.

Btw, I don't care about Anthem. In fact I selfishly hate that it exists because I want Bioware to make old style Bioware games again. Still doesn't mean reviewers don't frequently misrepresent games.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,210
Greater Vancouver
Sorry, I poorly phrased that.

If you're reviewing a game you should have an understanding of the mechanics. If the game poorly explains those mechanics then definitely criticise that - a reviewer should still learn those mechanics before fully reviewing the game though.
How would they be expected to know that a mechanic even exists if, as Patrick Klepek describes, he only noticed it mentioned in an item description?

If it's not tutorialized, either by gameplay necessity or explicit messaging, just how important is it?
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
The guy asked HIM for a review of the game. He said he doesn't do reviews. He said HE doesn't do reviews. He suggested the guy try a demo or watch a streamer. Non issue.

So he just put reviews in quotation marks for no reason? Come on, this is where I'm talking about either you're playing dumb or your reading comprehension just isn't there.
 

gabdeg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,962
🐝
If publishing average-ass games with the hopes that enough people get roped in by streamer positivity and highly cherry-picked demo content is Xbox's idea of "modern gaming" then I'm out tbqh.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,583
Oh my god won't someone think of the poor reviewer. Shut the front door.

On one hand the comments from Mike are rather groan worthy but on the other hand I like to see a VP of a gaming company actually playing games as a "hardcore" gamer.

You think he said it because he's a hardcore gamer and not because of the marketing deal?
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,495
It genuinely baffles me every time this site reminds me that participating in system warring is still a thing people care about.

So today we side with the press only to shit on them the next time some hilariously bad Gameplay videos like Polygon's Doom Gameplay come out?

No, you shouldn't do that either.
 

Deleted member 5864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,725
So today we side with the press only to shit on them the next time some hilariously bad Gameplay videos like Polygon's Doom Gameplay come out?
There's a difference between criticizing reviews and reviewers, especially coming from the audience they are serving (consumers, not publishers if you were wondering), and the corporate VP of a platform holder straight up dunking on the press for a review of a product your company is co-marketing with "Gamurz rise up" tier tweets.

Like, a chasm sized difference.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,579
so that is everything game journalist do? just reviews?

the only ignorant post here is yours.
No? Depends on the journalist/critic/content creator.

But if a site doesn't get a review out until a week after the embargo lifts they aren't going to get any clicks, and thus won't generate ad revenue for that content. These are businesses.

"They're just rushing reviews out for clicks" is such a dumb statement. Like yeah, that's what their business is.
 

Deleted member 8777

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
You are just straight up making things up to make your point though?
Ybarra said the reviewer said they didn't know how to do combos. Meaning
1) They knew combos were a thing but in playing through the game never learned them either due to the games bad design or his own incompetence (presumably if it was the second part in his eyes they would have excluded them from their review entirely)
2) They didn't need them for to finish the game. (Something others have mentioned, including Patrick Klepek in this very thread!)

You are jumping to conclusions about the quality of the review by making things up that we have literally no knowledge about.
That's part of my point tho. If he knew what combos are why didn't he just go the extra mile and find out how to do them before publishing his review? Isn't that what a good reviewer would do, you know try to see every aspect of the game even if they are poorly explained just so he can include them in his review?
 

Patrick Klepek

Editor at Remap, Crossplay
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
669
Near Chicago
Isn't this trying to be a Diablo-like loot game where you are incentivised to continue replaying missions on harder and harder difficulties for better loot..?

I for one haven't played it and probably wont pick it up but wondering how fair it is to dismiss a mechanic simply due to it being not necessary on the normal difficulty. For example I went through normal difficulty in Diablo 3 by just using basic attacks and abilities and didn't need to delve deeper into it's systems and potential build styles until harder difficulties.

Do you think this might apply to Anthem or am I giving it too much credit?

I think that's maybe what Anthem wants to be, but it's not quite there yet. Maybe it will be. The frustrating part of the combo system is that when you understand how it works, it's pretty cool and a neat wrinkle to the combat system, but the game's tutorial never explains how it works, you only pickup on its existence from item descriptions, and you need to dig through a menu to find out a proper explanation (or look up a YouTube video). How does that happen for something so critical to high-level competent play?? Whether or not a reviewer should/shouldn't put all that together, the way Anthem doesn't even acknowledge one of its own combat systems is highly indicative of other design oversights.
 

Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,488
Anthem does such a poor job of introducing the idea of "combos", that I didn't know combos were a thing until I played a Stronghold (I'd been playing solo prior to that) and threw a cluster grenade into a group of enemies frozen by a Storm.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,977
Yeah, they hypocrisy regarding the cancellation of scalebound from users who also say Crackdown should have been canceled is a perfect example.

The adaptive controller is one thing, but I remember backwards compatibility being scoffed at here and othersite initially. Now that rumor has it the PS5 will have BC it is now a good thing. Microsoft is still almost exclusively singled out for payed online though.
People being indifferent to BC isn't proof "the entire site has an anti MS bias." I still couldn't care about the lack of PS3 BC on PS4 at this point for example, but I would probably skip the first couple years of PS5 with no PS4 BC. It has nothing to do with MS, it's just due to the fact the first couple years are usually shit for a console. After the good new gen stuff starts releasing, I'm back to not really caring about BC, though wouldn't complain about having the option.
 

test_account

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,645
Do you agree with him putting "Reviews" in quotes, suggesting reviews from game critics are not legitimate?

It's literally a fake news Tweet.
No, i dont agree with him in that regards, not at all. Thats why i said it might not have been the best choice of words. A review is basically just one (or several) guy's personal opinion about a game, so theres nothing right or wrong about it (assuming that there no factual errors mentioned in the review). Its more of a subjective thing. But i assume that hes referring to that its better to check out streams/videos and get a feel for the game that way instead. Personally, this is what i do for most games that i want to check out. But i didnt get the impression that he was dissing traditional reviews.
 

Mr Eric

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,141
Not A review. ALL reviews.

Read it again.


Can you point to the written review critique this tweet is talking about ? His "modern reviews" is clearly poorly worded, but the fact that today anyone can learn so much by watching someone playing, play a demo, have early access,... makes written review in some way "old fashioned". Don't you think ?

Sorry, I poorly phrased that.

If you're reviewing a game you should have an understanding of the mechanics. If the game poorly explains those mechanics then definitely criticise that - a reviewer should still learn those mechanics before fully reviewing the game though.

+1. If you are a pro reviewer it's IMO the bare minimum to understand and find out all of the game mechanics. If the said mechanic is hidden somewhere in a dark corner of the game, then just say it "this is something 99% of the players won't find, that's why the game is bad", but if you have a minimum of professionalism you need to find it and report it. DOn't just say "this game is shit" and then discover something new at the end of your review and say "see, I told you it's shit".
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,518
What an embarrassing thing to see.

Both those tweets and the people who feel emboldened by them to start rattling off their gaming journalism hot takes.
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,426
That's part of my point tho. If he knew what combos are why didn't he just go the extra mile and find out how to do them before publishing his review? Isn't that what a good reviewer would do, you know try to see every aspect of the game even if they are poorly explained just so he can include them in his review?

ok but not having the review in front of us means we can't determine in what context the not "know how to do a combo" was used which makes the entire discussion fruitless unless you want to keep making shit up like you just did again.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,316
Pencils Vania
No, not at all. Thats why i said it might not have been the best choice of words. A review is basically just one (or several) guy's personal opinion about a game, so theres nothing right or wrong about it (assuming that there no factual errors mentioned in the review). Its more of a subjective thing. But i assume that hes referring to that its better to check out streams/videos and get a feel for the game that way instead. Personally, this is what i do for most games that i want to check out. But i didnt get the impression that he was dissing traditional reviews.
His intent was deliberate. "Poor choice or words" is a bullshit defense of this if I'm going to be honest.
 

Puffy

Banned
Dec 15, 2017
3,585
I don't see the big deal. Probably should have been more slick with it tho. You gotta protect your investments, I get it. Can't knock the hustle.
 

TheRaidenPT

Editor-in-Chief, Hyped Pixels
Verified
Jun 11, 2018
5,949
Lisbon, Portugal
He mentions "modern reviews"... Yet none of what he said can be count as a review, since you could have friends who know nothing about gaming yet bought the game because of marketing.

Streamers? Same thing, how many of them are really natural towards games really 90% of them play what's hot because of views or if someone paid them to stream the game like certain games like guess what? Battlefield V and Anthem.