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Mike Nelson (of MST3K fame) is a conservative POS (and so is the person who created Earthworm Jim)
- Thread starter Lonewolf
- Start date
You cannot tell me the typical USA perspective is to look at things from USA perspective. I am talking about generalizations about people.
It didn't, but people are dogpiling me because I said we shouldnt make generalizations based on skin color.
But you're literally saying "It's typical of you people to generalize people."
You can't see the hypocrisy there?
it did, though, thanks to you. why are you in this thread anyway? you even said you don't know who the subjects of the thread are.
I don't think anything is concrete yet, but on the last tour Joel just kind of unceremoniously introduced a new lead riffer named Emily. Then on a recent livestream event, she was the one who took lead again. It seems like Joel is replacing Jonah, out of nowhere after two seasons. As someone who thought Jonah was a perfect host for the reboot, I'm pretty bummed out about it.
oh god damnit, the one famous person from my hometown (other than my classmate Niykee Heaton, which, the less said the better) is down the drain
She was good on the tour but I've never seen/heard her riff.
Probably less "the boot" and more "without Netflix money we can no longer afford him".
I don't think there is any creative differences or the like... Just little money while they try and figure out how they'll reboot things.
Part of the problem is Joel didn't give her a proper introduction whatsoever nor explained what happened to Jonah and the rest of the cast. We didn't even find out MST3K was canceled until some random crew member posted about it on Facebook.
It was all handled so poorly.
It's not even close. Mike era is vastly funnier than Joel era. I wish this was a thread breaking the old internet taboo of Joel vs. Mike instead of a support group coming to grips with a fantastic entertainer being a monsterous shithead.
Kevin and Bill have done a few Rifftrax on their own without Mike. Alien springs to mind (and maybe Saw). I'm pretty sure that Mike owns the brand though.
Before he destroyed his career, didn't Louis CK have a bit that was more or less exactly this? I remember hearing it and being pretty sickened by it. I would bet money that Doug heard that specific bit and took it as direct justification.
Edit: this (I've hidden behind spoiler because it's frankly nauseating):
More sure now than before that Doug saw this specific bit as direct justification for continuing to use the slur.
Also very much in the vein of Chris Rock's infamous routine, which he retired specifically because he realized racists were seeing it as justifying their use of the slur.
In a 2005 60 Minutesinterview, Rock said: "By the way, I've never done that joke again, ever, and I probably never will. 'Cos some people that were racist thought they had license to say [slur], so, I'm done with that routine."
Niggas vs. Black People - Wikipedia
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While he was a great host, Mike has always struck me as a smug, prickly, pompous person and it never felt like a coincidence that after Joel left the jokes on MST3K became gradually much more mean spirited and bitter (especially in the Sci-Fi era as great as those episodes are). I also remember years ago somebody on Satellite News posted that they had met Mike on two separate occasions at a Con and that he was rude and unfriendly to them each time.
Not that it would surprise me at this point given the topic of the thread but Mike has made racist comments too? Do you have any examples?
Not that it would surprise me at this point given the topic of the thread but Mike has made racist comments too? Do you have any examples?
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This is really fucking disappointing to hear. I knew that he was a conservative republican but didn't mind it because he kept his politics out of his work, but knowing that he is this awful as a human being is really fucking sad.
Guess I'm off the Rifftax wagon. Been a big supporter of their stuff on Kickstarter and on their site in general, but this leaves a dirty taste in my mouth. Love Bill, will continue to follow him on Twitter, but can't support a company that would employ a guy with these sorts of personal views.
Never got into MST3K, only just heard about it as references from others but good thing I didn't get to be disappointed. Sucks for the fans.
Mike owns Rifftrax. So if he steps away I think it will just die.
Let's hope that Bill will fix this.
In Bill we trust.
I agree, I just don't think they will go back into hiding. The jack is out of the box, they smell that they can be assholes again, and it's not just in the USA, it's.. EVERYWHERE including in Asian countries and South American Countries. But it also is a good thing, now we can identify and go after them. Not let them crawl into hiding like they did after the Second World War. Where they started to hide behind laws and secret gatherings (if your in Europe) or just claiming other bull shit about "equal but apart" in the USA (or whatever these fucks thought off while dressing up in bed-sheets to kill people!).
If they are out in the open, we can hunt them. And this time we just need to be really thorough. Sad as it may be, since these fucks will abuse anything to get what they want (from "it's just a joke" to "I wanted to get out"), it does mean it'll be a lot harder to get well meaning people that want out of the cult.. out. And yes it is a cult, they even make sure you cannot leave very easily. Under the threat of violence and alienation. It is also why they don't care about acting like they are "wanting to get out" when they aren't. It further alienates those that DO wish to leave, that DO not agree, as they get fearful for the people that wish to help them.
But we must clean this shit. We allowed them to fester, we allowed them to come back.. and we allowed ourselves to forget and not teach stuff to kids as it was "uncomfortable" to talk about. We allowed the right to play with these Monsters, which they thought they could contain, when clearly they cannot.
So no, let's not hope they keep them to themselves, let's hope we can either clean it all up, and educate those that we can safe. It going back into "hiding" is not a solution! They'd still get into politics and harm minorities of all kinds with their poison if we allow that. We cannot go back to what was considered "Normal", for those that were privileged. Until that same normal of the privileged can be for everybody and not just their group.
Sorry for my rant, I just feel very strong about this.
Mike started Rifftrax with Legend Films, but apparently Mike, Bill, Kevin, and a fourth party bought out LFs stake.
i couldn't say who owns what percentage of Rifftrax tho, id assume Mike has a majority ownership
Yeah, I didn't actually realize this was "official" until I caught up with the Satellite News rundown of the live event from a month ago. It flat out says if there is a Season 13, the folks on that live stream will be the ones handling the voices for the bots and Emily will be the new host.
I brought it up back in November (omg I can't believe it's only been seven months, feels like seven years) but I talked to Jonah when he came to Bloomington IN and he really wanted to do one more season with Hampton and Baron. He wanted to go to something like Shudder because he saw the success of Joe Bob Brigg's show and thought MST3K could have success there, too. The fact that he and the gang won't be able to do that really, really bums me out. Joel seems to be betting that MST3K is successful due to its formula instead of heavily successful due to its leads. I also wonder what it means for the writers room (is Eliot Kalan coming back?). Also, given Hampton intimated (if not outright said) that he didn't do the second tour due to money, I wonder if the decision has been made more so due to funding than to personal decisions.
I'm definitely willing to give Emily and the new gang a shot, but I really loved Jonah, Hampton, and Baron almost immediately (Cry Wilderness is one of my all time favorites), so this totally sucks.
Joel replies to a fan. Interestingly, he says the person is wrong about his talent and importance to MST3K's history, but doesn't address the podcast.
Mike is incredibly talented. He's a miserable piece of shit, but it doesn't mean that his work wasn't good.
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i mean, he's right in that one can't just omit mike's role in the show. he was head writer for a majority of joel's episodes anyway. and he was (is? idk) at the very least a very funny guy. but he is of course also a shitty person. it's unfortunately complicated.
Joel's response is interesting because it rides that line of defending Mike's tenure on MST3K while also not commenting on his affiliation with Audio Mullet or Mike's personal beliefs. He's also probably very defensive of the MST3K product, so he'll defend Mike's tenure for (possibly) personal reasons because he knows Mike, but also for business reasons, as he doesn't want folks to turn against MST3K, which is his "baby" of sorts.
This is a weird fuckin response. I get it for the same reason as the replies above mine but a weird fuckin response all the same.
Bill Corbett seems legitimately surprised and upset by this on Twitter. Not good folks. I'm starting to feel uneasy about the future of RT.
I find it hard to believe that he didn't know. Most of the old MST3K fans know that Mike was always this Wisconsin Republican aw shucks guy.
Bill seems like he was aware of Mike's politics and aware that he was on this other podcast, but unaware of some of the language being used. Maybe kind of a fence sitting response but he does seem to be genuinely struggling with the information.
They may have assumed he was an old school Republican without realizing he has gone full alt-right MAGA.
I'm just making the point that older fans have been aware of Mike's conservative politics since like a decade ago or more. He never really hid it. There is no doubt in my mind that people he shared a writing room with wouldn't know or cannot connect the dots. I like Bill well enough but I think he's putting on a bit of a show so to speak.
Overall I think they knew about Mike having shitty views but just put it aside because they are old friends or know they have to work with him in some professional capacity for Rifftrax/MST3K. Now that it's out in the public square they have to do this very visible and convenient soul-searching.
Trump being elected really rev'd up conservatives, where they were maybe cruising at 5 or 6 and now embolden to punch it to 10.
Joel doesn't need to comment on Mikes politics but a dude doesn't have to "well Mike wasn't talented" as though that has anything to do with his politics either.
Joel doesn't need to comment on Mikes politics but a dude doesn't have to "well Mike wasn't talented" as though that has anything to do with his politics either.
It's strange cause Mike has never had issue poking fun at conservatives in his jokes and jabs on the shows at Republicans.
Jonah keeps talking of MST and seems to want to keep doing it if possible at some point even after the live stuff happened with the "new" host and team, he's talked of it and that he would return, but it's clear he doesn't want to be involved with the smaller scale live stuff anymore as he's got lot of stuff on his plate with so many projects, committing to long tours isn't going to happen and also said main reason he didn't do the live tour was the 7+ month schedule.
I think they simply don't want to write out or dismiss Jonah and company at all cause they would want to return to them if possible at some point, while the new crew is there budget crew willing to do the live tours and such. They don't want to say the new girl is replacing Jonah.
Jonah keeps talking of MST and seems to want to keep doing it if possible at some point even after the live stuff happened with the "new" host and team, he's talked of it and that he would return, but it's clear he doesn't want to be involved with the smaller scale live stuff anymore as he's got lot of stuff on his plate with so many projects, committing to long tours isn't going to happen and also said main reason he didn't do the live tour was the 7+ month schedule.
I think they simply don't want to write out or dismiss Jonah and company at all cause they would want to return to them if possible at some point, while the new crew is there budget crew willing to do the live tours and such. They don't want to say the new girl is replacing Jonah.
I mean, ignoring that he doesn't make any comments about the podcast, he's right about Mike and MST. You really can't just pretend Mike doesn't exist in relation to the show; even if you ignore all of the episodes with him as the host, he was a writer from the very early days and was head writer for a majority of the show's run (I think from season 2). You can't really separate MST from Michael J. Nelson because he was such a huge part of the show for most of its run, even behind the scenes.
I think people forget that 8 years of Bush really emboldened general American jingoism and also helped normalize the warped views of the modern conservative, all of which set the stage for someone like Trump to really pump the gas pedal later. This is why I don't buy this whole "Bill didn't know" stuff. It was always there, they just chose to put it out of mind until it became impossible to ignore.
No, it's the greatest TV show of all time. Google it, watch a couple of episodes on the official MST3K YouTube page, then go from there.
I like Bill a lot, but he had to be willfully ignorant to not notice this before. People were definitely tagging him in stuff prior to the current tweet thread blowing up and he just wouldn't respond. I mean, I get it. I work with conservatives too, and it's fine as long as they stay professional in the workplace and we have nothing to do with each other outside. But Mike's using his fame as a platform for hate, you can't just let that slide.
I won't be supporting Rifftrax anymore because of this, and honestly hope the partnership dissolves and Bill and Kevin move on to something else. But it's sad, they were doing incredible work. I think because of Bill and the other talented writers they bring in the comedy hasn't felt like it's gone anywhere near the standard conservative bullshit of "it's just jokes" meaning "it's just jokes... that always have the same targets."
While I'd buy that Mike only went full asshole conservative post 9/11, I'm pretty sure even during the MST3K days he'd mentioned how central his Christianity was to his life. He was just able to separate his personal life from his professional career in comedy. And for what they do, it shouldn't be that hard, especially when you're working with a variety of different voices. But at some point assholes can't keep the hate inside and gotta spread it around.
I won't be supporting Rifftrax anymore because of this, and honestly hope the partnership dissolves and Bill and Kevin move on to something else. But it's sad, they were doing incredible work. I think because of Bill and the other talented writers they bring in the comedy hasn't felt like it's gone anywhere near the standard conservative bullshit of "it's just jokes" meaning "it's just jokes... that always have the same targets."
While I'd buy that Mike only went full asshole conservative post 9/11, I'm pretty sure even during the MST3K days he'd mentioned how central his Christianity was to his life. He was just able to separate his personal life from his professional career in comedy. And for what they do, it shouldn't be that hard, especially when you're working with a variety of different voices. But at some point assholes can't keep the hate inside and gotta spread it around.
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If Mike owns a big share of RiffTrax, does it matter? Couldn't the others just start "MovieSlamz" or something? There's nothing proprietary lost except Nelson himself.
From a standpoint of purely "could someone set up another riffing site that does exactly the same thing, just without Mike being involved" then I don't think there's an issue. I mean, lots of people have replicated the MST3K formula over the years without having to get permission.
My guess is the obstacle would first be the difficulty in starting up a new brand and it being financially viable. Like if the audience splinters can you still pay the bills? Licensing the movies, paying additional writers, all the tech involved and billing systems, etc-- all are pretty big costs if you don't have enough paying customers. What they do isn't as simple as something like a streamer starting a patreon or something.
Also, who knows what their contractual agreements look like. Are all of the guys prohibited from starting a rival riffing site? Is there a morals clause that could dissolve the agreements? Would Mike even be in violation of those agreements if what he actually said on the podcasts aren't as bad as the descriptions or quotes from his cohost? My guess is it's a lot more complicated to end a business like RiffTrax than simply walking away. But it also seems like ignoring it isn't an option anymore, too.