I was pleasantly surprised to see how well virtual desktop worked.
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Microsoft's current approach to VR is incoherent
- Thread starter tulpa
- Start date
I was pleasantly surprised to see how well virtual desktop worked.
They have talked about the fact that the current PSVR is backwards compatible and the front ports on the PS5 are obviously set up for a PSVR2 plugging right into the console.
And that's an acceptable amount of communication that shows you it's going to be a focus for them?
You ain't wrong. They seem to have vita'd it. Every time I see a mad deal on PSVR I'm only ever a bawhair away from buying it regardless. Wish I could connect quest to PS4.
There are several reasons why its valid to not mention PSVR.
- It's a platform of it's own, which needs it's own focus.
- They aren't yet ready to show off their next generation headset.
- Their next batch of PSVR games are still in development and are probably either not ready or shouldn't be unveiled until a PSVR2 announcement.
And listen, I'm speaking as someone who owns a PSVR. I just am not confident that Sony themselves are confident in their plans for it/VR on console in general.
Hey, if they come out in two weeks and show a huge focus on it then what I've said will be moot. Until then I'm skeptical
I've heard pretty good things, although I've also heard that the latency is definitely noticeable in faster paced games...that can add to the already existing problem of VR sickness. But yeah, that's what I mean when I say we're close. I don't think streaming is quite ready for prime-time or being fully integrated as an official solution, but it's good to see it works pretty well. I think we'll start to see some integrated wireless PC/console headsets in the next couple of years. Hopefully PSVR2 has that, although keep in mind that it's a balancing act of cost effectiveness and therefore may be an optional upgrade.
It's not quite ready that I entirely agree with. The latency isn't too bad from my experience but it also is far from flawless and being wireless you are always waiting for something to interrupt the signal and make everything unplayable.
I always thought instead of missing E3 last year they should have went with VR. Maybe not as big but go and show what you have, what you're working on.
OP
OP
How am I cherrypicking? I'm trying to include all of Spencer's statements about VR and any Xbox console-related marketing statement concerning VR.
Oh come on. Don't misrepresent what I said. I never said the demand for VR on console was insane. I said it's fairly consistent across console and VR. They're both expanding but still relatively small markets. It's also not true that Sony has said nothing about PS VR. They've made it clear that the current headset is compatible with PS5 and that told people to wait for more details about VR on PS5 as they get closer to launch. They literally just released a big PSVR exclusive Iron Man game. It's not surprising if they're not massively trying to move the current headset if they're preparing for a second gen of VR as most people seem to think they are. It's pretty ridiculous to suggest that Sony isn't supporting VR moving forward.
I mean, it's still in R&D. Look at how long it took for Sony to publicly acknowledge the name of their next-gen console. Same for the logo. Same for the console itself. They're just not overly forthcoming these days. What statement of intent we do have is that they "won't just stop with PS4", as far as converting users to PSVR.
You'll hear more when:
- The next batch of PSVR games are ready to show.
- Sony is ready to announce their next-gen headset and controllers.
- Insomniac Games announces their next VR title.
One of the key pillars for PS5 is "immersion"... I mean go figure on that one.
Yeah the xbone X was supposed to be the VR beast, but then they pretended like they never talked about it lol
Since the Series X is pretty powerful it'll be weird if it doesn't support VR in some form.
Since the Series X is pretty powerful it'll be weird if it doesn't support VR in some form.
I know it's a PS4 game, but Dreams just got its VR patch, and it's been really well received so far.
Wait, is this true? The break-out box for PSVR is built directly into the PS5?
VR I'm general is starting to feel that way. We are in a quarantine and I can't get any vr sporting events? What's happening?
Also I think VR games in general still need a lot of work. Most games or experiences that I have had are completely jarring. Maybe Microsoft hasn't really committed because they are aware of those things.
Also I think VR games in general still need a lot of work. Most games or experiences that I have had are completely jarring. Maybe Microsoft hasn't really committed because they are aware of those things.
The breakout box was needed to proccess some things like the 3D Audio and the Cinema Mode for games since the PS4 needs as much power as it can going into the games. PS5 has a dedicated audio chip and more than enough power, so the likely scenario is that PSVR2 will connect over USB-C like the Oculus Quest does.
I'm not really into sports, but there have been some incredible VR concerts and expos during Covid.
I think incoherent is a touch dramatic but it is a bit confusing how soft their approach has been wrt WMR headsets and unless I missed out on something Flight Sim is their first published title to get VR support period. Frustrating to see them locking headset exclusivity too as much as I'm interested in the G2 for myself. It made more sense with Oculus doing it at the start of the CV1 launch because they were launching an entirely new ecosystem and storefront specific to the Oculus platform, with several high quality titles available at launch. Microsoft clearly seems hesitant to dip their toes into VR and given their current 2d first party showings of late I'm not surprised. Outside of Ninja Theory I'm not sure what other devs they have with VR experience, and Sony has been doing VR R&D with a successful product in PSVR for a minute now. Sony and Oculus have built up some impressive libraries already, and MS may or may not be willing to play catchup. I don't have a lot of confidence in them investing fully like the other two parties this next gen. It seems like a no brainer given their properties (VR Halo would do quite well I think), we'll just have to see where they're going with it.
What was "total bullshit"? Are you saying that the Xbox One X couldn't do VR, but the PS4 Pro can?
I mean they didnt have any real plan for it. It didn't even make any sense. How could you be releasing VR games for just the X and not the original one?
Pretty sure the current stance from Xbox is they are waiting till the hardware isn't annoying and I couldn't agree more. I own the PSVR and love it so much Astro Bot blew me away on levels that replicate how I felt playing Mario 64 for the first time. Hooking that thing up sucks and making sure distance and lighting is right is even worse.
Microsoft's current approach to a lot of things is incoherent. It is very disappointing but what are you gonna do.
Again, I think if Sony was happy with the performance of VR and excited about its future they would talk about it a lot more.
Like, I fully expect that Sony will release a PSVR2, but I do not expect that they're investing heavily in it. My personal expectation is that PSVR2 is going to be a mild update of PSVR with somewhat better resolution and inputs, but with the overall focus being affordability. I think product development on PSVR2 started with "what can we deliver for $199?" rather than "how can we make the best PSVR possible?" It's less about making another big investment in VR, and more about what they can do to leverage their existing investment.
For me, I cannot ignore the difference in general interest in VR in 2015 compared to now. It felt like at that time VR was almost all anyone could talk about. It seemed like everyone was announcing VR titles and lots of people were trying to get into the VR hardware game. Facebook bought Oculus for $2B. Imax was getting in the game by opening VR theaters where people could pay to play VR. And then suddenly everyone stopped talking about it. Giant Bomb used to do VRodeo content regularly, but by the time Covid rolled around they hadn't done anything in a year. And a big part of that is the lack of compelling titles coming out (which is again an indication of a lack of investment in new games).
And again. Another "E3" came and went without any buzz around VR. Even after HL:A supposedly inspired a huge surge in HW adoption, I don't see any difference in buzz around VR. Where's the excitement? And like, you say Dreams VR is a game-changer right? Where's the game changing? I'm not seeing it. The enthusiasm around it isn't any different (well, other than being less) than the enthusiasm that was around Google Tilt Brush. That was supposed to be "next-level" and "the literal future" shit. But the game didn't change. It stayed the same.
Look, I have zero doubt in my mind that on some level VR *is* the future. But I don't think that this iteration of VR is what will take it to that level. And I don't think it's an issue of just needing higher-resolution screens or more powerful processing or even wireless. We just have to get to a point where we can move around in VR naturally, without warping or motion sickness or any weirdness. Until then things like Flight Simulator (and maybe this Star Wars Squadrons game?) will be really cool VR experiences, but they won't be enough to push the technology through.
Microsoft's approach is consistent. They find more value in VR and AR being a productivity/educational tool and NOT a gaming tool. There's a lot more opportunity in the productivity and education space for AR/VR than gaming.
His quote was that nobody is really asking for VR on Xbox, not nobody wants it period. PSVR had a less-than 4% uptake among PS4 owners last I checked, so there seems to be a lot of validity to that view. For perspective, Kinect sold around 35 million units in the end.
VR on PC is a different animal, and Microsoft have been more forthcoming there.
Honestly, I think they are taking the right approach. The only caveat I'd add, is that I think they'd be smart around 2022 to simply say "hey, here's a list of PC VR headsets that will just work with the Series X". Maybe have someone from Oculus or Valve walk out on stage, as the official "partner" for the announcement, alongside an announcement that some of their games will be coming to Series X in VR.
They'll be lauded for supporting consumer choice, they'll immediately get access to a massive installed base of PC VR headsets (and give those people all a reason to consider buying an Xbox), and they won't have much proverbial "skin in the game" if it doesn't take off this generation.
Sony have a lot of sunk cost and investment in the VR realm, so it makes sense for them to continue on regardless.
I think VR will be one of those things where they miss the right time to get on board, just like with phones.
Makes sense to focus on the core Xbox experience though, they are just building up the first party and there is no way they can stretch those resources even thinner.
Makes sense to focus on the core Xbox experience though, they are just building up the first party and there is no way they can stretch those resources even thinner.
PSVR2 will most likely not require the box (it'll be USB-C and maybe an extra USB for power), but I think the current PSVR still will when used with the PS5.
I think it's reasonable for them to concentrate all their effort 100% on their new console's launch, then next year or year two we get a PSVR2 blowout.
If they were to make a big deal about PSVR2 right now, a lot of people would complain that they don't want VR, why is Sony focusing so much on VR, they want traditional games etc. Similar to how people complained that the Kinect was such an integral focus of the original Xbox One launch– it was a distraction from the core console.
Now really isn't the time for multi-pronged messaging, especially since they've been quite clear that they are going to continue to support VR for the foreseeable future and there has been multiple patents from Sony exploring what PSVR 2 might be.
When you think about it Sony, hardware wise, has announced:
1) A disc based PS5
2) A discless PS5
3) The Dual Sense controller.
4) New headset
5) New camera
And you want them to announce and cover PSVR 2, which isn't ready yet, on top of that? Just isn't the time right now. I expect you'll hear about PSVR 2 in about a year or two from now, about a year or so before the Pro version of the PS5.
The PC allows them to test pilot VR. If they said Xbox supports VR then Microsoft would have to push it like they did with Kinect which would not be ideal. I think they are too far behind to make money on VR, even Sony who is at least double the market leader only has about a 5% attach ratio, is that enough to really support on Xbox?
Flight Sim on PC allows them to tap into PCVR that's already established and I think they believe Xbox is a different market for VR.
Flight Sim on PC allows them to tap into PCVR that's already established and I think they believe Xbox is a different market for VR.
I really don't think Microsoft could just add VR support to their consoles and let third parties handle both the content and hardware aspects of it. The biggest strength of Sony's VR plans is the huge investment they've made in making high quality titles that show of their headset. This leads to third parties being confident enough to make games for the platform.
There are so many things Microsoft has to improve and get right with the Series X that I just don't see them putting money towards VR, which is still a niche market. PC is a much lower risk area where they can start to branch out.
There are so many things Microsoft has to improve and get right with the Series X that I just don't see them putting money towards VR, which is still a niche market. PC is a much lower risk area where they can start to branch out.
I don't think there are any mixed messages here. They just understand that VR is currently bad, and it'll take years (longer than the Series X's lifespan) before it's (maybe) workable and in-demand.
I think the biggest problem is they still have to prove to the gaming public that they can make must play games. They've been the butt of jokes for how long because they didn't have enough 1st party studios? Imagine the July event if they had to dedicate some of their studios to VR. People here love to talk about how bad they are at supporting the Xbox consoles. Imagine if those resources had to be divided with another platform?
Also PSVR is at around 5% attach rate right? Imagine that rate for Xbox. Now since they would probably put those games on steam they may recoup some of those losses but I feel like they need to prove they have the power to create great games and content for consoles before trying to provide for two platforms.
Also PSVR is at around 5% attach rate right? Imagine that rate for Xbox. Now since they would probably put those games on steam they may recoup some of those losses but I feel like they need to prove they have the power to create great games and content for consoles before trying to provide for two platforms.
The Microsoft that runs Xbox and the Microsoft that heads initiatives like WMR may as well be two different companies. And MS divisions are quite famously isolated and at times at odds with each other. Xbox's stance on VR is pretty clear cut.
There may be more long term potential, but current opportunity? VR gaming is what made current consumer VR real, and it is what continues to drive it.
And they made WMR for gaming; it just hasn't been very good compared to competitors.
I don't really think it's incoherent. It's emerging tech so they're exploring it and researching it because they're the largest tech company in the world, but not making it a priority for their gaming platform because it's pretty clear it's a very small, niche market right now. If that changes and it becomes a gaming powerhouse, they've done their homework and can translate that research into a competitive platform.
A VR dev posted a comment on an article on Roadtovr saying Xbox One is too weak for VR so Microsoft canceled it. They had a working prototype apparently. Hopefully Xbox adds VR when they faze out Xbox One and make Lockhart the base console. I'm thinking Lockhart will launch at a later date then Series X and I believe that's going to be the new base console within the Xbox ecosystem.
Fun fact. Early Xbox One X retail firmware detected windows mixed reality headsets and displayed an Easter egg on them. Support for VR on One X was clearly worked on internally for at least a time and not just something they talked about to the press.
I hope Microsoft do something with VR on Series X. Either windows mixed reality or Quest support (one single USB connection! ) seem like they would be relatively simple additions given the existing PC environments for both.
I hope Microsoft do something with VR on Series X. Either windows mixed reality or Quest support (one single USB connection! ) seem like they would be relatively simple additions given the existing PC environments for both.