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Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
If it wasn't for video games and game development I wouldn't have a windows PC that's for sure.

Aside from games I don't know why you would choose this

Not sure if you're unaware that Linux is actually pretty good for gaming these days, thanks to Proton.
Why not make the jump if windows irks you this much?
 

Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
This is much larger than I expected. The store supporting any tech developers want to bring pretty much solves a lot of issues gamers had, the new openness with commerce not locked to Microsoft is crazy, and is a shot at Apple. I really liked the android app integration, the improvements to display handling, and direct storage coming (Which was known). It was nice to see actual time given to gaming as well.

Yet biggest thing for me is what Satya Nadella had to say at the end with 'Sovereignty for creators and agency for consumers.' leading to: "Windows just isn't a OS, it's a platform for platform creators. Today the world needs a more open platform, one that allows allows apps to become platforms in their own right. Windows is the platform for things bigger than Windows to be born. That's our aspiration with Windows 11, to be the platform to be the next web, the next transformational software category, the next personalized content business. A platform can only serve society if it's rules allow to this foundational innovation in category innovation." They're not fucking around.
Windows has been pretty open for a long time. Yeah it has its issues but I can always find software that does what the big software does and install it without hurdles. Yeah sometimes I have to just hit yes to install cause it's not from a "trusted" source but that's a security and safety feature which is fair.
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
I didn't have to enable anything. I just installed it right over my Windows 10. That being said, you can go into the BIOS and enable it.
Yeah i didn't see anything about TPM in my Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero X570 mobo's BIOS. I have UEFI Secure Boot active.
 

TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,823
Seems like it will be easy to ward off Windows 11 until people are comfortable upgrading. Just don't enable TPM 2.0 and you are good. I don't see how they win that war though if they want the vast majority of people to upgrade since most people will never venture into their bios.
 
Nov 25, 2017
159
It's a fragmented mess of a system made out of ideas from the 90s with an inconsistent UI and tons of bugs I have to deal with all the time.

Sure it's fragmented a bit, but it works, and is very customizable to what you need.
The inconsistent UI is true, cleaning up some of the old things would be nice, my problem is the new UI is too dumbed down, I say go back to the old control panel. But, on the other hand, something like MacOS is consistent but it's like using Windows 3.1 . I use it for work and I HATE it. Everything takes more keyboard keys (most shortcuts are like 3 key presses vs 2 in windows). No built in windows snap (like, what year is this).

Just out of curiosity, what kind of bugs do you see regularly?
 

F34R

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,990
That checking tool isn't very accurate at all lol. It's telling me my PC won't be able to run Windows 11, even though I have been running Windows 11 lol. I know it has to do with the TPM stuff being enabled, etc., but still made me laugh.
 

eddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,741
If you're in the insider programme, that "PC Health Check" thing is DOUBLY useless, since the settings page will tell you if your system is compatible.

QuUZZ3e.png
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Shameful that they can't deliver tabbed file explorer after promising that years ago. What have they been doing?
 

flyinj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,953
This is much larger than I expected. The store supporting any tech developers want to bring pretty much solves a lot of issues gamers had, the new openness with commerce not locked to Microsoft is crazy, and is a shot at Apple. I really liked the android app integration, the improvements to display handling, and direct storage coming (Which was known). It was nice to see actual time given to gaming as well.

Yet biggest thing for me is what Satya Nadella had to say at the end with 'Sovereignty for creators and agency for consumers.' leading to: "Windows just isn't a OS, it's a platform for platform creators. Today the world needs a more open platform, one that allows allows apps to become platforms in their own right. Windows is the platform for things bigger than Windows to be born. That's our aspiration with Windows 11, to be the platform to be the next web, the next transformational software category, the next personalized content business. A platform can only serve society if it's rules allow to this foundational innovation in category innovation." They're not fucking around.

This doesn't fix the major issue with the store: AppX UWP apps are broken and corrupt themselves making themselves unuseable and locking their corrupted files into a directory that you can't delete them from. All I heard is there is an option now for developers to use win32, but the standard still seems to be UWP. Definitely for first party.

I haven't heard a single thing about them fixing the UWP app corruption issue. They have never even acknowledged it.
 

delete12345

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
19,690
Boston, MA
CW1Su3B.png


www.microsoft.com

Meet Windows 11: Features, Look, Benefits & More | Microsoft

Meet Windows 11, the newest Windows version from Microsoft. Upgrade your PC to Windows 11, or explore which devices come equipped with Windows 11 features.
I'm doubting that the storage space being 64 GB is minimal. It should be more like 128 GB, considering that you will have "Windows.old" folder being created before the user gets to delete that folder for more storage space.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,079
Trusted Platform Module, it's a security chip.

You need to check the manual of your motherboard on how to activate a firmware-based TPM (there's also a hardware based one, but that requires a separate processor - all motherboards support both methods).
Thanks
 

Bufbaf

Don't F5!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,654
Hamburg, Germany
Shameful that they can't deliver tabbed file explorer after promising that years ago. What have they been doing?
I honestly feel like they communicated pretty much nothing actually new lol. Is windows 11 "just" a new taskbar and 2-3 features i'll barely use (snap stuff)? I would love to see if there's a new explorer, what the settings look like, if there's any improvements on the destop itself, stuff like that.
 

Green

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,410
Sure it's fragmented a bit, but it works, and is very customizable to what you need.
The inconsistent UI is true, cleaning up some of the old things would be nice, my problem is the new UI is too dumbed down, I say go back to the old control panel. But, on the other hand, something like MacOS is consistent but it's like using Windows 3.1 . I use it for work and I HATE it. Everything takes more keyboard keys (most shortcuts are like 3 key presses vs 2 in windows). No built in windows snap (like, what year is this).

Just out of curiosity, what kind of bugs do you see regularly?

On Mac there's just barely support for keyboard-main users. There's some shortcuts here and there, sure. But for example I wiped and installed Big Sur the other day on an older mac for a friend. Didn't have an extra mouse lying around, but figured what would I need a mouse for, really? Turns out, there's several screens during the install process that cannot be navigated with keyboard only. No tab, no space, enter. Nada. You MUST use a mouse when installing and setting up Mac. Silly thing to complain about, but it was a pain. Little things like that around Mac make it less usable. Unlike Windows, it's just not an OS designed with keyboard primary users in mind.
 

Watership

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,118
Windows has been pretty open for a long time. Yeah it has its issues but I can always find software that does what the big software does and install it without hurdles. Yeah sometimes I have to just hit yes to install cause it's not from a "trusted" source but that's a security and safety feature which is fair.
This will definitely give a lot of smaller developers a platform for getting their apps safely to users, with their own commerce engines and free to use any technology or packaging they want.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,587
Yeah i didn't see anything about TPM in my Asus ROG Crosshair VIII Dark Hero X570 mobo's BIOS. I have UEFI Secure Boot active.

With AMD, you're looking for something called 'fTPM' for the built-in TPM.

But like people say, the TPM requirement might end up being dropped, as getting non-technical people to go rooting round their firmware settings to toggle an obscure setting is a recipe for disaster.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,728
USA
Mandatory MSA on the home install just screams anti-trust. Governments didn't like it when Microsoft had Internet Explorer as the installed browser. Imagine what they'll think when you need an account from Microsoft just to setup your new laptop.
 

Acetown

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,297
Centering the taskbar like that is stupid as hell, that's one of the many flaws of the MacOS dock.
 

Charpunk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,628
TPM 2.0 being required for people who would want to upgrade that have perfectly fine older machines that don't support it.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,006
Mandatory MSA on the home install just screams anti-trust. Governments didn't like it when Microsoft had Internet Explorer as the installed browser. Imagine what they'll think when you need an account from Microsoft just to setup your new laptop.

The world was different back then. If the same antitrust positions would exist today, Apple would be fired into the sun.
 

LordRuyn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,909
With AMD, you're looking for something called 'fTPM' for the built-in TPM.

But like people say, the TPM requirement might end up being dropped, as getting non-technical people to go rooting round their firmware settings to toggle an obscure setting is a recipe for disaster.
While they might change course, unless they remove the requirement from the checker app ASAP no machine, except business ones that have it enabled by default, will be deemed eligible. That's a big fuckup on Microsoft's end, most users will see their PC is not compatible right now.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,292
Germany
Sure it's fragmented a bit, but it works, and is very customizable to what you need.
The inconsistent UI is true, cleaning up some of the old things would be nice, my problem is the new UI is too dumbed down, I say go back to the old control panel. But, on the other hand, something like MacOS is consistent but it's like using Windows 3.1 . I use it for work and I HATE it. Everything takes more keyboard keys (most shortcuts are like 3 key presses vs 2 in windows). No built in windows snap (like, what year is this).

Just out of curiosity, what kind of bugs do you see regularly?
I just hate that MS starts building new stuff, redesign everything all the time and now we get the next layer of paint on top of the current one that's not even full applied yet. It's infuriating imo. I stumble across all this all the time and can't believe 80% of Windows looks and feels like it does.

My biggest problem with Windows is external screens and scaling. I have to fix that almost every time my ThinkPad goes to sleep. Rearrange everything, reset the scaling, IT'S TERRIBLE.
Scaling also sucks for lots of apps, and while I really thank MS for their efforts with WSL 2, it takes ages for them to fix stuff and add much needed features like the GUI support.
Recently the taskbar started bugging out, it just doesn't show anything anymore then or or or... my list is long and I don't feel like spending too much time on this haha

So I'll return to MacOS once the new M1x/M2 machines are out and my employer is in the mood of buying me one ;)
 
Nov 25, 2017
159
On Mac there's just barely support for keyboard-main users. There's some shortcuts here and there, sure. But for example I wiped and installed Big Sur the other day on an older mac for a friend. Didn't have an extra mouse lying around, but figured what would I need a mouse for, really? Turns out, there's several screens during the install process that cannot be navigated with keyboard only. No tab, no space, enter. Nada. You MUST use a mouse when installing and setting up Mac. Silly thing to complain about, but it was a pain. Little things like that around Mac make it less usable. Unlike Windows, it's just not an OS designed with keyboard primary users in mind.

I mean, I have a mouse, but, it's just so much quicker to do most things with your keyboard.
 

Cyclonesweep

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,690
I just hate that MS starts building new stuff, redesign everything all the time and now we get the next layer of paint on top of the current one that's not even full applied yet. It's infuriating imo. I stumble across all this all the time and can't believe 80% of Windows looks and feels like it does.

My biggest problem with Windows is external screens and scaling. I have to fix that almost every time my ThinkPad goes to sleep. Rearrange everything, reset the scaling, IT'S TERRIBLE.
Scaling also sucks for lots of apps, and while I really thank MS for their efforts with WSL 2, it takes ages for them to fix stuff and add much needed features like the GUI support.
Recently the taskbar started bugging out, it just doesn't show anything anymore then or or or... my list is long and I don't feel like spending too much time on this haha

So I'll return to MacOS once the new M1x/M2 machines are out and my employer is in the mood of buying me one ;)
Didn't they literally just say they are fixing external screen and docking so that when you replug in a device, it recalls exactly how it was when you unplugged it?
 

john2gr

Member
Oct 27, 2017
407
I never understood this sentiment. It's a free update. You can literally do this from Windows Update like any other thing that gives you features.

Take a good look at DX12 and its adoption rate (Windows 10 was also a free upgrade from Win 8/Win7). DX12 came out in 2015 and after six whole years we still have DX11-only games (so that they can run on more operating systems). By limiting DirectStorage to Win11, a lot of developers won't be using it (unless all DX12 gamers are using Win11 which will take several years).
 
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linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,689
Reno
With AMD, you're looking for something called 'fTPM' for the built-in TPM.

But like people say, the TPM requirement might end up being dropped, as getting non-technical people to go rooting round their firmware settings to toggle an obscure setting is a recipe for disaster.

And that's not even taking the business market into account. Not every company is going to want to upgrade their laptops if they don't support TPM 2.0 in order to run Windows 11.
 

Tmespe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,453
Mandatory MSA on the home install just screams anti-trust. Governments didn't like it when Microsoft had Internet Explorer as the installed browser. Imagine what they'll think when you need an account from Microsoft just to setup your new laptop.
Not remotely the same. I guess apple forcing you to have an apple ID or google forcing you to have a google account to use android makes you not use a smartphone then? There are a lot of advantages with using a connected account for sign in. You can set up a system for recovering passwords, you can use passwordless authentication, you can improve the customer experience of moving between devices etc. Microsoft's reasoning is sound.
 

LordRuyn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,909
Tried running the health tool provided.

Getting a "Your organization manages updates on this PC" message.

The fuck? This is my own personal computer.
If you used any software like Shutup10 to disable telemetry or you have edited group policies you are going to get that message. It means nothing in that case.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,587
Centering the taskbar like that is stupid as hell, that's one of the many flaws of the MacOS dock.

It'll 100% be an option. Although, because I use an ultrawide, I'm quite happy to be able to move icons to the centre.

Though I have to admit, I've never heard anyone ever complain about the macOS dock being centred and not fixed to the left...
 

MegaRockEXE

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,950
No expanded task bar looks lame. I don't use it as a launcher. I want to be able to switch to specific windows with 1 click not more. Still not sold on the Start Menu. Seems inferior in every way compared to the current one.
 

Symphony

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,361
I have no idea what TPM is, but my motherboard (MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC) manual says it has a 14 pin TPM connector and it seems MSI sells TPM plug in modules? Does this mean I'd need to hunt down some dumb obscure add-on that isn't sold in my country, is discontinued and will probably be out of stock in like 20 mins from now to upgrade? Because if so, all I can do is laugh.