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Dec 11, 2017
2,502
The Xbox hardware has become and will appear more Surface-like as time moves on.

Microsoft ideally want you buying a Surface and experiencing Windows (and Xbox!) in what they see as the ideal environment. Once you're in with the hardware then the services flow on from that. Office. Edge use. Game Pass PC and maybe some cloud streaming. With all that, though, they know they can't bank on you buying a Surface. So they offer their services everywhere they can. Windows for ARM. Office in the cloud. 365 at work. They have some nice iOS apps, right? In the end they'll be happy that you're using their stuff.

The same rules apply to Xbox. The Series consoles are the ideal environments to experience Game Pass. But they're going to make it as easy as possible to play Game Pass elsewhere and work to improve that experience as things progress.

PC. Mobile. TV. Streaming stick. I'm not sure they give a shit, as long as you're paying for Game Pass and happy with the gaming experience and content.
 

Boogolo

Member
Nov 1, 2020
492
In my country (and, honestly, most of Europe) almost no one played Xbox (it has always been Sony and Nintendo). We also don't even have Game Pass or Xcloud (in the entire region), and probably won't have it anytime soon. I love it when someone says "you can play it on a phone". No, we can't.
I'm not sure what country you are in but xCloud and gamepass is available in quite a few countries in Europe. I think the current list of European countries for xCloud is Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,328
I'm not sure what country you are in but xCloud and gamepass is available in quite a few countries in Europe. I think the current list of European countries for xCloud is Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom

Yes, most of these are some of the most developed countries in the world. It is not available in my country (Serbia), also not available in Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Albania and even EU countries like Croatia and Slovenia. These are all European countries. I know a lot of people don't care, but it's still a lot and if Microsoft has the resources to buy something like Activision|Blizzard, they have the resources to expand to these areas as well. I understand that Microsoft has priorities, but how Era users (especially those from US and UK) sometimes ignore the rest of the world when commenting is sometimes hurtful.
 

Boogolo

Member
Nov 1, 2020
492
Yes, most of these are some of the most developed countries in the world. It is not available in my country (Serbia), also not available in Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Albania and even EU countries like Croatia and Slovenia. These are all European countries. I know a lot of people don't care, but it's still a lot and if Microsoft has the resources to buy something like Activision|Blizzard, they have the resources to expand to these areas as well. I understand that Microsoft has priorities, but how Era users (especially those from US and UK) sometimes ignore the rest of the world when commenting is sometimes hurtful.
I'm in the same boat when it comes to xCloud in my country(but we do have a local Microsoft store with regional gamepass pricing). I think a major issue is that xCloud runs out of azure data centers and those tend to be in countries where there is the highest demand for those products. I also don't see cloud native gaming becoming mainstream for most people for atleast five more years. It does work well for some if they have a good connection and the server is close enough to them. That's only going to improve as Internet infrastructure improves and more data centers open up with xCloud blades
 

Irrotational

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,149
Yes, most of these are some of the most developed countries in the world. It is not available in my country (Serbia), also not available in Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Albania and even EU countries like Croatia and Slovenia. These are all European countries. I know a lot of people don't care, but it's still a lot and if Microsoft has the resources to buy something like Activision|Blizzard, they have the resources to expand to these areas as well. I understand that Microsoft has priorities, but how Era users (especially those from US and UK) sometimes ignore the rest of the world when commenting is sometimes hurtful.
Yes we do, sorry :(
 

Frieza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,850
Yes, most of these are some of the most developed countries in the world. It is not available in my country (Serbia), also not available in Macedonia, Montenegro, Bosnia, Albania and even EU countries like Croatia and Slovenia. These are all European countries. I know a lot of people don't care, but it's still a lot and if Microsoft has the resources to buy something like Activision|Blizzard, they have the resources to expand to these areas as well. I understand that Microsoft has priorities, but how Era users (especially those from US and UK) sometimes ignore the rest of the world when commenting is sometimes hurtful.

I have always argued that cloud gaming isn't where it needs to be to viable it doesn't work in most countries and even in those countries it does work in it's usually in only mega cities. I live in a decently sized city in Canada and have fast internet yet Xcloud doesn't work at all. So for people to ignore countries like yours and act like xcloud works everywhere is stupid .
 

BBboy20

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,007
They would be batshit insane to take their games off of Steam. They are selling extremely well there and it has a massive install base.
Steam is the reason I am even intrested in whatever exclusives they might have. I wouldn't have played Halo Infinite if it wasn't on Steam.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,328
Steam is the reason I am even intrested in whatever exclusives they might have. I wouldn't have played Halo Infinite if it wasn't on Steam.

You're not alone in this viewpoint, but that is just weird to me. Like, I completely understand why one might prefer Steam to some other launcher, but at the end of the day, it should be about the game, right?

Some people here say they are PC gamers while, in fact, they mean they are Steam gamers. The loyalty to Steam is fascinating.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,365
True, but no one (but the "fanboys") is saying that what Sony is doing with the exclusivity of FF7 is "good for players". So why defend Microsoft then?

Also, this is at a whole different scale. It's not even close.
Well i was really just specifically responding to that other persons frankly laughable assertion that Sony's timed exclusive nonsense was objectively better than Microsoft's spending habits. Let me be clear, I have reservations about the way the industry is going into full consolidation mode as well. I just look at it from this simple perspective: Sony spends money to make other platforms worse off, Microsoft spends money to make their own platforms better off. My own feelings on which of these is the more contemptible are pretty obvious.

I'm old enough to remember when there was far less consolidation. One of the biggest tragedies in gaming was when EA bought Bullfrog and when Sony bought Psygnosis. both for the same reason: They ground these iconic gaming companies into dust and irrelevance. Also sidebar, remember when Peter Molyneux actually made good games? There was a time when Bullfrog was releasing just one incredible game after another and a time where the Psygnosis owl logo was a ubiquitous beacon representing quirky and interesting Amiga games. Consolidation often destroys rather than empowers.

So I do have that in the back of my mind when i see Microsoft greedily gobbling up all these companies, big, small and now vast. However Microsoft does seem to be basically buying them and letting them get on with things which is a hopeful sign and a far cry from what lead to the demise of Lionhead which was Microsoft forcing that developer to make a game that they maybe didn't want to make or knew how to make.

But as with Disney and their shocking stranglehold on that particular industry consolidation is the way we seem to be headed. And as i said, of the "big three" gaming companies if Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft are gonna buy someone i'd rather it be Microsoft because they really are the lesser of the three evils if you look at an acquisition taking something away from a group of players simply because of the sheer amount of options someone has to play their games. Of the "big three" they also release the most games on competing platforms. Only Microsoft would have let Moon Studios release Ori on Switch and it's telling that when MS bought Mojang Sony's first question was "Are you taking Minecraft off of Playstation?" because that is exactly what Sony would do, and yet here we are with Minecraft continuing to be supported on competing platforms and Minecraft Dungeons being released on everything.

Surely I don't need to spell this out. If Nintendo buys someone? Well get a Switch or get fucked, basically. If Sony buys someone? Get a Playstation or hope that they eventually toss out a PC port 3 years later when they decide to throw PC gamers a bone. If Microsoft buy someone? Well if you're reading this post then you own at least one device, and you probably own more than one that has the ability to play their games. Take accusations of me being a console warrior or fanboy out of it if you can and i think maybe you can agree that objectively speaking if a gaming company is going to be purchased from a pure availability perspective Microsoft is the obviously best possible outcome for the most people.
 

Laver

Banned
Mar 30, 2018
2,654
I'm old enough to remember when there was far less consolidation. One of the biggest tragedies in gaming was when EA bought Bullfrog and (...)
-Westwood [RIP]
-Origin [RIP]
-Pandemic [RIP]
-Maxis [RIP]

The fact they manged this feat not with one, but five iconic and extremely successful studios is flabbergasting. Maxis of all. Just how.
 

kobayashimaru

Member
Dec 1, 2021
24
You're not alone in this viewpoint, but that is just weird to me. Like, I completely understand why one might prefer Steam to some other launcher, but at the end of the day, it should be about the game, right?

Some people here say they are PC gamers while, in fact, they mean they are Steam gamers. The loyalty to Steam is fascinating.

The Windows Store & XBox app are such an unadulterated shitshow that I'm not surprised people prefer Steam. Microsoft needs to get their launcher fit for purpose first.
 

diablogg

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,269
You're not alone in this viewpoint, but that is just weird to me. Like, I completely understand why one might prefer Steam to some other launcher, but at the end of the day, it should be about the game, right?

Some people here say they are PC gamers while, in fact, they mean they are Steam gamers. The loyalty to Steam is fascinating.

There's really a ton of legitimate reasons to prefer Steam over other launchers (for me it's mostly for all the controllers Steam supports), and while I generally try to avoid other launchers if possible they at least generally function how you would expect a launcher to function. In regards to the Windows / Xbox App... The Xbox app is literally busted. Like it can break itself, your game install or gobble up hard drive space at any moment. So at least with GamePass and the Windows Store, it's not just about the game:
www.resetera.com

Gamepass PC is a ticking time bomb that results in permanently lost HDD/SSD space unless you nuke windows Microsoft - PC - Tech

EDIT: Also, almost all games that can't be uninstalled can not be reinstalled again even if you somehow manage to delete their data making that game completely unplayable. I had an issue with Wasteland 3 not being able to install about 4 months ago. What happened was I had the game installed...
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,153
You're not alone in this viewpoint, but that is just weird to me. Like, I completely understand why one might prefer Steam to some other launcher, but at the end of the day, it should be about the game, right?

Some people here say they are PC gamers while, in fact, they mean they are Steam gamers. The loyalty to Steam is fascinating.

It should be about the game, yes. But the Windows store is so bad it actively hurts your ability to play the games. For example, for me whenever there is a new patch for a windows store game it fails and I have to redownload the whole game. I do not have that issue on steam. So steam legit let's me play my games more.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
Surely I don't need to spell this out. If Nintendo buys someone? Well get a Switch or get fucked, basically. If Sony buys someone? Get a Playstation or hope that they eventually toss out a PC port 3 years later when they decide to throw PC gamers a bone. If Microsoft buy someone? Well if you're reading this post then you own at least one device, and you probably own more than one that has the ability to play their games. Take accusations of me being a console warrior or fanboy out of it if you can and i think maybe you can agree that objectively speaking if a gaming company is going to be purchased from a pure availability perspective Microsoft is the obviously best possible outcome for the most people.

Gamepads works on Android phones?

Kidding aside, I do own a PC but it is not at all gaming spec. It will do fine with a multitude of indie games but I'm sure it would choke on a big name title.
 
Last edited:

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,742

Just says what I said. Until all the agreements expire it will remain and after that it's probably only gonna be Warzone. Btw they're not leaving all that money if they don't publish it, they want growth of their own platforms which would come from cutting off PS from yearly releases.
 

aevanhoe

Slayer of the Eternal Voidslurper
Member
Aug 28, 2018
7,328
The Windows Store & XBox app are such an unadulterated shitshow that I'm not surprised people prefer Steam. Microsoft needs to get their launcher fit for purpose first.

There's really a ton of legitimate reasons to prefer Steam over other launchers (for me it's mostly for all the controllers Steam supports), and while I generally try to avoid other launchers if possible they at least generally function how you would expect a launcher to function. In regards to the Windows / Xbox App... The Xbox app is literally busted. Like it can break itself, your game install or gobble up hard drive space at any moment. So at least with GamePass and the Windows Store, it's not just about the game:
www.resetera.com

Gamepass PC is a ticking time bomb that results in permanently lost HDD/SSD space unless you nuke windows Microsoft - PC - Tech

EDIT: Also, almost all games that can't be uninstalled can not be reinstalled again even if you somehow manage to delete their data making that game completely unplayable. I had an issue with Wasteland 3 not being able to install about 4 months ago. What happened was I had the game installed...

It should be about the game, yes. But the Windows store is so bad it actively hurts your ability to play the games. For example, for me whenever there is a new patch for a windows store game it fails and I have to redownload the whole game. I do not have that issue on steam. So steam legit let's me play my games more.

Ok, I did not know that. I rarely play on PC (consoles mostly) and I actually never tried the Xbox App. That's a shame.
 

Decarb

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,642
In my country (and, honestly, most of Europe) almost no one played Xbox (it has always been Sony and Nintendo). We also don't even have Game Pass or Xcloud (in the entire region), and probably won't have it anytime soon. I love it when someone says "you can play it on a phone". No, we can't.
Yeah we don't have xcloud too, and probably won't have it for foreseeable future. I just laugh it off when someone says "you can play them on your phones too".
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
User Banned (1 Month): Inflammatory Commentary; History of Dismissive Commentary and Platform Warring

gothi

Prophet of Truth
Member
Jun 23, 2020
4,433
Lol seems like jumping the gun.
I think they're quite astute. If they're big into multiplayer games and not precious about Sony developed single player games then it makes a lot of sense to sell the PS5 whilst it's still selling above retail price, pick up a Series X and 3 years of Game Pass.

You'll have money left over and more multiplayer games than you can shake a stick at "for free" and in 2023/2024 you'll get the latest CoD "for free" whilst PS5 owners will be paying £70 if they get it at all.

Honestly don't blame then, makes a lot of sense if their play style aligns to the above.
 
May 14, 2021
16,731
Damn, one of my friends sold their PS5 today and another has put theirs up for auction. What is happening 🙀
If they're the average gamer who doesn't buy a lot of games, I can't blame them. The Xbox is just the better option for a lot of people. I need my PS5 for the occasional exclusive and to access my PS4 library, but the decision to make the Series X my main was a simple one. Game Pass + MS Rewards is unmatched.
 
Oct 29, 2017
3,006
I'm in the same boat when it comes to xCloud in my country(but we do have a local Microsoft store with regional gamepass pricing). I think a major issue is that xCloud runs out of azure data centers and those tend to be in countries where there is the highest demand for those products. I also don't see cloud native gaming becoming mainstream for most people for atleast five more years. It does work well for some if they have a good connection and the server is close enough to them. That's only going to improve as Internet infrastructure improves and more data centers open up with xCloud blades

I just don't understand how xCloud is touted as a usable product. Here in Easter Europe, with an absolutely bonkers connection, it throws me onto the Amsterdam servers and the latency is so fucking insane it is quite simply unplayable.

When somebody says "Play it on xCloud" I really can't take them seriously. Multiple tests showed that xCloud is one of the worst in terms of latency.
 

Witness

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,811
Hartford, CT
Damn, one of my friends sold their PS5 today and another has put theirs up for auction. What is happening 🙀

I mean the value proposition is off the charts, so if you aren't attached to Sony franchises and you can't afford, or just don't have time, for two consoles then I can't blame anyone for selling now when you can still get above retail price easily for one.
 

Dis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,946
I mean the value proposition is off the charts, so if you aren't attached to Sony franchises and you can't afford, or just don't have time, for two consoles then I can't blame anyone for selling now when you can still get above retail price easily for one.

Yep and hopefully a bunch of people panic selling over this will drive the prices down of used consoles and I and others can get a ps5 easily at a good price finally.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,648
I guess call of duty is that important to some people. Lol. And furthermore no one knows for certain if it's gonna be yanked off PS 100%. But here we are.

There are a lot of people who only buy their consoles to play CoD. Why even risk it at that point? If you're a CoD fanatic, why bother with the PS5 at all? Even if Microsoft DOES somehow keep releasing CoD on PS5 it's going to deliberately be positioned as the worst version of the game to convince people to switch.
 

LanceX2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,821
If MS were smart they would pull CoD til Sony stop buying timed exclusives.

Sony has been doing this every year for gamds whilr MS has mostly stopped esp since tomb raider.

fire with fire
 
Mar 6, 2021
3,767
Saint Louis
If MS were smart they would pull CoD til Sony stop buying timed exclusives.

Sony has been doing this every year for gamds whilr MS has mostly stopped esp since tomb raider.

fire with fire

they wouldn't do that given that be evidence that they have the power to strong-arm the competition and this prevents other companies from making competitive moves against them. That could lead to a block of the sale
 

LanceX2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,821
I just don't understand how xCloud is touted as a usable product. Here in Easter Europe, with an absolutely bonkers connection, it throws me onto the Amsterdam servers and the latency is so fucking insane it is quite simply unplayable.

When somebody says "Play it on xCloud" I really can't take them seriously. Multiple tests showed that xCloud is one of the worst in terms of latency.


xCloud is amazong and still infancy. Been playing Octopath on my phone for a week since it may disappear in April.
 

LanceX2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,821
they wouldn't do that given that be evidence that they have the power to strong-arm the competition and this prevents other companies from making competitive moves against them. That could lead to a block of the sale


Nothing will stop the sale. MS still is far from monopoly. Hell they arent top 1 or 2 of companies that own studios etc.

MS MAY have to honor current contracts but CoD 2024 2025 may not have to be on Playstation
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,045
I think selling your PS5 if you aren't super attached to Sony exclusives isn't that crazy, but there's also not a lot of reason to own a PS5 if you don't want those exclusives anyway.

That being said I'd buy a PS5 right this instant if I could get one for retail
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,809
I just don't understand how xCloud is touted as a usable product. Here in Easter Europe, with an absolutely bonkers connection, it throws me onto the Amsterdam servers and the latency is so fucking insane it is quite simply unplayable.

When somebody says "Play it on xCloud" I really can't take them seriously. Multiple tests showed that xCloud is one of the worst in terms of latency.

That's your mistake, to be in Eastern Europe. Or to just remember that Xbox exists.

(as an EE myself)

At least it is available. Game Pass was literally completely unavailable when I was back in Macedonia few weeks ago. Not the streaming service, the entire GP service.

Give it a few more years, maybe MS will learn that the rest of the world also exists.
 

LanceX2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,821
That's your mistake, to be in Eastern Europe. Or to just remember that Xbox exists.

(as an EE myself)

At least it is available. Game Pass was literally completely unavailable when I was back in Macedonia few weeks ago. Not the streaming service, the entire GP service.

Give it a few more years, maybe MS will learn that the rest of the world also exists.


MS wants it everywhere but in the infancy its all about infrastructure and obviously where the most sales are
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,648
I think selling your PS5 if you aren't super attached to Sony exclusives isn't that crazy, but there's also not a lot of reason to own a PS5 if you don't want those exclusives anyway.

That being said I'd buy a PS5 right this instant if I could get one for retail

This is why I don't own one right now. Outside of FFXVI the whole console is a goddamn wasteland. I can just keep playing XIV on the PS4 I have until it dies and then decide if next gen is worth it when XVI actually comes out.
 
Mar 6, 2021
3,767
Saint Louis
Nothing will stop the sale. MS still is far from monopoly. Hell they arent top 1 or 2 of companies that own studios etc.

MS MAY have to honor current contracts but CoD 2024 2025 may not have to be on Playstation

it doesnt have to be a monopoly for the sale to be stopped and revenue isnt a deciding factor. Dont get me wrong, I dont believe it will be blocked BUT the best argument for it is the potential of MS/xbox gaining enough leverage with the deal to essential stifle the competition in the upcoming subscription/platform based market thats going to begin booming in the next few years.

MS doesnt have the ground in the console market YET, but they would have control of the strongest previously 3rd party IPs in the current and future landscape. So when it comes to the sub market, MS potentially gains the power to dictate it. That is weird any argument of it getting blocked really has any form of grounds. Theres a reason any language used is vague and can mean 15 different things. Thats cause any claim of removal of those big IPs right now could be used against them.

That being said, the FTC is starved for staff and even with the push to pop big tech going on from them, I dont think they have the current forsight to look into it that far. Then you have the UK which tends to be a bit stricter so that will be interesting. Again, do I think it will be blocked? nope. Would I be foolish enough to claim there is 0 evidence that can be used as an argument against it? Nope
 
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