Which has what relevance exactly? They all sold millions of copies regardless. Are you suggesting Guitar Hero would still be alive if it had controller support?
The amount of contradiction in this single post is quite extraordinary.
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So you're telling us when we play a game like Wipeout VR for example(plenty of others), that the 40+ people or so that I've demoed aren't actually completely blown away by the quality, namely the visuals and experience? Their wowed reactions and phone calls after they leave my house asking how much it is are all an act? These are mostly gamers too. It's literally the closest thing to an amusement park ride in my house. 10 years ago it would have felt like a $50+k setup with a massive machine powering it, that's no exaggeration. It's literally head and shoulders above the TV version, not even in the same fucking universe. Seems like hyperbole and I'm glad, because I can actually play it and every single time I'm blown away.
You're actually right, the VR breakthrough will never come. VR sales have shown to increase slowly every year, but most people still haven't tried it so how would it have a breakthrough. Hardly anyone just orders something that's $200+ that they have zero experience with. Anyway, VR doesn't need 50 million sales, not even close. It would be nice, but VR gamers buy games at a higher rate than normal gamers, so that's why you will see more headsets coming out and in development for the rest of your life. It can sustain itself as is. With better tech like wireless(which is already a thing) and big games coming, it could be faster than expected though, but I don't see a breakthrough coming. Slow and steady.
Isn't the expression of ideas inherently subjective? I think designing games for your fanbase, but then not supporting the controller that you made them buy along with their console would be a shitty thing to do. I've explained this several times. Not much else I can do. Take from it what you will.
They didn't win the GOTY with Halo 3/Mass Effect, Gears 2/Fable 2 and Halo Reach/Mass Effect 2, Gears 3 wasn't even nominated, all of them were games above the 89 MC
What makes you think that they will win with Gears 5 or Halo Infinite?
The relevance is that they were all gimmicks, fads, flukes. They had their run and they were done. Ever notice how the ONE constant and consistent way of playing games and the best games at that has been with a controller?
There's no contradiction at all. Makes no sense to port a PC game to a console if you don't allow those who play on a console with a controller to the same for that game. Do you play Xbox One games with a mouse and keyboard? Is that how you're going to play Crackdown 3 or Gears 5? Maybe on PC you will but on a console? Why even own and play on a console? But whatever, it's just how I look at it.
I'm interested in Gears Tactics and want to play it but if I can't play it with a controller then it's the same exact thing as if it doesn't come to the console to begin with because it's of no interest to me then. I'm just hoping that I can play the game with the controller on Xbox One. I don't believe that im asking for a lot at all especially when so many other strategy RPG's that are also on PC allow you to play with a controller on consoles.
The requirement to have a keyboard and mouse for some games really isn't any different from requiring move controllers, PSVR, Kinect, Wii Pro controller, motion plus, guitar controllers, etc.
Some games require certain accessories. It's nothing new and if it means having a wider variety of games on the system, it's a great move.
Some games require certain accessories. It's nothing new and if it means having a wider variety of games on the system, it's a great move.
Why can't you play them? It is you who refuses to use a device you're using now as we type. They are releasing 3 Gears games, one is Mobile, one is Xbox and one is designed for PC. Microsoft made other PC games in the past like Age of Empires. I don't see why you'd be salty at all given another regular Gears game is still coming. This is a bonus as I see it.
Exactly.
I'm using my phone. I don't own a desktop computer. I have a laptop, but I'm not about to try and use a trackpad to play a video game.
I don't think CD3 will do under 1 million copies.
I also don't think it will do (review wise) as bad as people think it will.
I can see it's NPD numbers surprising everyone, just like State of Decay 2 did this year.
But the two aren't mutually exclusive. Which has been explained to you several times.
Halo Infinite isn't going to be designed around a mouse and keyboard.
AOE4 is, because it's primarily (pretty much exclusively historically) a PC game and franchise. It always has been, therefore this isn't negatively affecting the Xbox fanbase and it's actually respecting the AOE fanbase. Then we have a choice - either it therefore never comes to console at all, or it does because said console has mouse and keyboard support.
In your world, the Xbox port of AOE4 should never exist because it couldn't support controller due to its inherent design, and it therefore shouldn't exist on Xbox because "reasons". But that is taking away options for others who own an Xbox and would like to play the game but don't want to do it on PC, and would have no issue using a mouse+keyboard to do so. So be kind and let those people have their game.
??? No you'd use whatever that game has been designed for, which is all anyone is suggesting.
Halo Infinite is a game designed primarily for consoles, but will be playable on PC with a keyboard. It's a one way road. That's shitty.
If a game requires a keyboard and mouse, I can't play it becauss I don't have the required materials. Having spent $1,000 on Xbox hardware ($150 of it due to controllers that I have no choice but to buy) it kind of irritates me that I have to buy even more stuff to do something that I should be able to do with my controller.
But Halo Infinite doesn't need its gameplay and design changing to accommodate mouse and keyboard, like AOE would in reverse. That's why it's a one way road. What would be even more shitty is if AOE4 doesn't come to console at all simply because you're bitter about it not being able to magically support a controller.
Controller is 14 buttons and two sticks. That can be easily mapped to a keyboard and mouse. Many two-button functions on controller can (and are) exploded out to seperate keys.
Moving the other way is COMPLETELY different. It CAN be done in some cases, sure, but it isn't always user-friendly at all.
Your argument is basically that moving from a three-storey house to a condo should be as simple as a condo to a three-story house. It's a matter of space and resources.
I don't know why we're talking about AOE4. My example is Gears Tactics (the game that started this whole conversation). You're telling a turn based strategy game can't work on controller? Because there's a myriad of evidence that it does.
Age of Empires and Gears Tactics are PC games. Built for pc gaming.
Microsoft has traditionally built games for both PC and Xbox. But since their PC games (Age of Empires, Rise of Nations, Age of Mythology, etc.) don't translate very well to controller play, people with consoles don't know them very well. KB+M support gives console fans the possibility to enjoy legendary pc gaming series on their home console. I don't see the problem with it.
And while they are doing that, they are making Gears Tactics with the best possible controls, M+KB. Which doesn't mean that controller support isn't coming down the line, but it's built for KB+M first.
You've spent $150 on additional (optional) controllers and whatever else to get up to $1,000 but can't afford $10-20 for a mouse+keyboard?? Did you forget the old days of having to buy memory cards? And again, the point is that AoE wouldn't even be on Xbox if it were not for the m+k support so you are literally not losing a damn thing.
I'm talking about AoE4. So you're fine with AoE4 coming to Xbox with m+k support only? Well no issue then.
Ruining a game, just so you don't have to buy a KB/M would be a terrible move on the part of the devs.
Sure. I'm sure they can make it work with controller. Plenty of games have shown that it's possible. And nobody knows if it's coming to console with controller support.
Just saying that Microsoft can port games for pc to Xbox more easily now, because of KB+M support.
It's not the cost, it's the point. I've already given Microsoft shitloads of my money, but apparently that's not enough. I need to buy more stuff to play the games they make.
How would it ruin a game? There have been tons of PC games that come to console and work just fine.
They are not competitors. Netflix, Prime Video, Spotify... you don't buy movies/songs from them.
In XCloud you'll be able to play the games you own (and thus have bought) and it's when you buy things that the storefronts get their cut. See what happened with the Steam game streaming app and Apple
You're assuming all people think like you, and while I agree there might be some, there's also people that would rather play a game on PC with K&M but if there's the option on Xbox they might play them there instead, also, they plan to have a unified platform between Xbox and PC, that will never happen if there's no possibility of having K&M only games
If all this is because of Gears Tactics having K&M support, no one has ever said it won't have controller support too and I'm pretty sure it'll have because MS won't want the backlash because there's already plenty of examples in the genre (XCOM, Mutant Year Zero, Chroma Squad...) so they know people won't accept it.
Turn based strategy games are perfectly apt to be played with a controller, but real time no. AoE, Starcraft... those games would be infinitely frustrating with a controller (no, Halo Wars doesn't count because 1) it's infinitely better with K&M and 2) that's as simplified as it gets for a real-time strategy game, I'm talking "the full rts experience")
+1
M/K only games will probably be digital only which has easy refunds and the store will make it clear to the end user what inputs are required. Retail will probably still require controller input.
Seems perfectly fine. Consumers are not 5 year olds that can't think for themselves. It will be fine.
Seems perfectly fine. Consumers are not 5 year olds that can't think for themselves. It will be fine.
I don't understand why someone would complain they can play their PC games on their home console for the first time ever. Microsoft has just given people more options.
And there are tons of games that have never made it to console because a controller as input would be awful.
Making AoE4 playable on controller would ruin the game. There's no way you can reasonably play that game on a controller, so they'd have to fundamentally dumb down the game, just to make it possible. Dumbing down the game, would ruin it.
If Gears Tactics has controller support then I'll STFU because that's all I care about.
I don't have PC games. I don't game on a PC. Giving people options is exactly what I'm calling for. Give me the option of using a controller.
You won't be playing League of Legends, Age of Empires or StarCraft on a controller. Trust me.. ;)
Are any of those other types of games you listed available on consoles? If not, I can understand it and would understand it for Gears Tactics if there weren't already a bunch of turn based strategy RPG's on consoles for decades using a controller. Kingdom Battle worked great with the Pro controller. Mutant year Zero worked great with the Xbox One controller and is on PC.
That's where my argument is. All these other games that are literally the same genre can play great with a controller but for some odd reason, Gears Tactics can't? It simply makes no sense to me.
Halo Wars can be played with a controller. Doesn't mean every rts can be played with a controller.
I don't know what the developers of Gears Tactics intend. We don't know anything about that game. You are still worried about it because I once said; ''Hey, I can imagine Gears Tactics having no controller support at all (at launch).'' :P
You wouldn't play them regardless, but you still want MS to force the devs to ruin the games, just so you don't have to buy a KB/M?
I fully understand that majority of gamers who play on PC use a mouse and keyboard while the vast majority if not well, everyone plays games on a console using a controller. Now think about this. Every PC game from now on ONLY allows you to play using a controller but NO mouse and keyboard. See my point in regards to Gears Tactics having a controller option on Xbox One?
PC games give you the primary option to play with - a mouse and keyboard.
Console games give you the primary option to play with - a controller.
Now imagine that you're forced to play games that aren't the primary way that everyone plays. Can't believe that no one sees or understands my point of view.
The only game I ever mentioned was Gears Tactics. You guys are the ones that made it about AOE. Plus, Microsoft doesn't make League of Legends or StarCraft. My point was they shouldn't make games that alienate and segregate their customers. Esspecially when their efforts lately have been to unite everyone.
Gamers have long come to terms with the fact that some console games require different accessories for input. Very few people will be upset about this. It's been happening since at least the NES days.
Look, PC gaming just gives people more options. If MS wants to unite the platforms, they'll need to support the same input methods. Some games just can't be made to support a controller.
If MS ever puts AoE4 on a console, it won't have controller support. Don't think that's unreasonable.
About Gears Tactics; we don't know if it'll have controller support. We only know it will support mouse and keyboard. If Splash Damage designed this game for KB+M only, that's their decision. I do agree that a turn based strategy game should support controller. But in the end it's up to the developer.
What I do know, is that KB+M gives console players way more options in terms of which games they can play and how they can play those games.
The reason why Steam was declined was because they had a storefront inside the application.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/5/17430532/apple-app-store-rules-valve-steam-link-game-streaming
Nope, sorry, you've lost me at the hypothetic scenario of all games on PC requiring controller and no K&M support because I can't see the link with having a few games that would be borderline unplayable with controller requiring K&M if they are to come to Xbox
Not the same case but there's games on Switch that can only be played in handheld mode because of touch controls and people seem to be ok with it (yeah, touch controls don't require buying anything, but a K&M costs peanuts nowadays)
I get being salty because you have to buy an accessory to play a game, but if it's in the game's best interest from a quality standpoint to limit your input options like that, I kinda have to say them's the breaks. Tactics I think could probably have controller support - XCOM managed it, after all - but something like Age of Empires on controller would be a totally different, arguably inferior, game.
Just like XCloud will because if not that would require people to own a console or PC to buy the games they want to play on their phones/tablets
Sorry going to strongly disagree with this. It's not really any different than a game coming out in a genre you don't like. Some people don't play racing games. In that case Forza doesn't count? It's not the same thing as never coming out on the platform. You are getting a choice. It's just a choice you don't prefer. Dealing with this same argument with Steam gamers who say that if Microsoft releases a game that only comes to Microsoft store and not Steam, they are not really been given a choice...when they are.
Keyboard and mouse games expand the brand and further integrate the platform to get it ready for a more mobile platform in the future. It's a very good thing. Even if this isn't a choice you like, it's an option that long term expands the net of consumers Microsoft can reach which will help fund more of the games you like. Can't look at these things so narrowly.
Please age of empires should never be playable with a controller, as a big fan of the series, I want to see it on xbox and on gamepass but it should never be playable without keyboard and mouse, it's just part of the dna of the series and it wouldn't be the same game if it was playable with a controller.
100%.
Halo Wars is a fun little rts, but it doesn't compare to a full blown M+KB rts game.
Just like kindle people will just use their mobile browser to purchase then the app to experience.
Apple can't block that.
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