Microsoft responds to Sony's claim that Call of Duty is unrivaled & unique (Claims Sony is paying to block games from Gamepass)

[Tigerfish419]

It would be the only way I'd engage with their ecosystem. As is, my PS5 collects dust between big titles.

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I think they would actually make more money offering sub service than charging $70 for their games, I would even argue they could probably even charge more than Game Pass and still grow faster and have more users, their titles are big enough for it. That's the thing but it would be a big risk to just jump in the pool like that so I can understand why they are going slowly. I guess they probably worry about getting into that sort of fight with Microsoft too.

Anyway I don't think Nintendo, Playstation or Xbox are going anywhere no matter what happens. Sony could buy out the entire industry and I still think Xbox and Nintendo will be ok and vice versa.

 

[Mass Effect]

well this thread turned out like everyone expected

 

[Toriko]

The funny thing is I'm willing to bet the house on, if Sony did day and date games in PS+ Premium they would get to 50M within a year on that plan.



If Sony made a new one, that would be them competing and would be a good thing that came from the deal, that's the thing. If we suddenly get a shooter from Sony it's going to be because they know they need to plug that gap in their lineup and this deal is going to speed that up even though Call of Duty is most likely not going to be exclusive.

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If COD is not going exclusive Sony are not going to give a shit lol. They will continue minting money from COD. Gamepass has been a thing for 5 years now and its not like Sony has responded in any meaningful way.

 

[Tigerfish419]

If COD is not going exclusive Sony are not going to give a shit lol

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I highly doubt that, they wouldn't be paying for marketing rights if that was the case.

 

[riotous]

GTA doesnt release every year like COD does. As for FIFA it still sells far less than COD each year despite still selling well

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FIFA has had 20+ million sale releases (really 25+ million in FIFA 18.)

It's fair to say it sells less on average than COD but in the last decade there are years where it was really damn close and years like 2017 where FIFA stomped all over that years COD release (COD WW2.)

 

[Sky87]

It's a net loss. I argued that the loss of access to millions is worse than some missing and delayed content that doesn't exist in perpetuity.

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I'd argue the game will be even more accessible in the future if it ends up on GamePass. Soon enough, most TV's will have a GamePass/XCloud app, which will make it available to more people than ever before.

Yes, it won't be the same pure experience as on a dedicated console, but i'm addressing the loss of access claim.

 

[Toriko]

I highly doubt that, they wouldn't be paying for marketing rights if that was the case.

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Microsoft has had marketing rights for a lot of games that still end up selling better on Playstation including Battlefield. If its not going exclusive I dont think they care too much tbh. Maybe having it on gamepass might make a dent to the community but honestly I dont think it will be substantial. Or at least as substantial as going exclusive.

 

[Oddhouse]

Thank you OP for taking the time. Really interesting read.

 

[Iztok]

GTA doesnt release every year like COD does. As for FIFA it still sells far less than COD each year despite still selling well

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Yeah, I mentioned that.
Putting up qualifiers like "doesn't release every year" is kind of meaningless when a game sells 150+ million. Or 200+ like Minecraft.
Or is free2play yet *everyone* plays it like Fortnite was for a while.

When you have to narrow down the parameters so much to prove a point, it's not a very compelling point.
Sure, COD is huge. But their argument is it's its own genre and market. It's just plainly not.

 

[RedRum]

Microsoft has had marketing rights for a lot of games that still end up selling better on Playstation including Battlefield. If its not going exclusive I dont think they care too much tbh. Maybe having it on gamepass might make a dent to the community but honestly I dont think it will be substantial. Or at least as substantial as going exclusive.

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CoD doesn't even need to go full exclusive to make a huge dent. Day 1 on GP and PC w/ marketing rights while taking over all the exclusive shit that Sony had wrung out of CoD and Gamepass subs go up by the tens of millions.

 

[TheBrightestSun]

Microsoft has had marketing rights for a lot of games that still end up selling better on Playstation including Battlefield

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Sony had almost 2:1 market share difference. Funnily enough PS sales did not skew 2:1. It is like Fortnite revenue where despite 2:1, the revenue diferent was 1.7:1 split according to Epic.

 

[Tigerfish419]

Microsoft has had marketing rights for a lot of games that still end up selling better on Playstation including Battlefield

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That tends to happen when you sell more consoles and are the market leader.. that shouldn't be a big shock to anyone.

If its not going exclusive I dont think they care too much tbh. Maybe having it on gamepass might make a dent to the community but honestly I dont think it will be substantial. Or at least as substantial as going exclusive.

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I think they care, because they cared enough to spend cash on it to have their controller be the exclusive controller of the esports scene for cod and they wanted the playstation advantage trailers, their iconic button prompts on every trailer and their logo on everything marketing related. I think any company spending money to market a 3rd party game care about that game, but that's cool if you think differently.

I agree game pass is the bigger fish here, they would without a doubt care about not being able to have it on PS+ Premium

 

[green cube]

I can't wait for this shit to go through

 

[Trup1aya]

This reads like a legal mic drop from MS. Sony's argument is filled to the brim with BS.

I do understand why they'd want to stand in the way of COD landing on GamePass, but their "anti-competitive" argument makes no sense at all.

 

[RedRum]

That tends to happen when you sell more consoles and are the market leader.. that shouldn't be a big shock to anyone.



I think they care, because they cared enough to spend cash on it to have their controller be the exclusive controller of the esports scene for cod and they wanted the playstation advantage trailers, their iconic button prompts on every trailer and their logo on everything marketing related. I think any company spending money to market a 3rd party game care about that game, but that's cool if you think differently.

I agree game pass is the bigger fish here, they would without a doubt care about not being able to have it on PS+ Premium

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I just don't understand from everything we've read from these reviews, and from even Sony themselves, that the takeaway would be.. "They won't care much.."

 

[Tigerfish419]

I just don't understand from everything we've read from these reviews, and from even Sony themselves, that the takeaway would be.. "They won't care much.."

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Call of Duty is unmatched, in a catagory of it's own after all and no company even if they had the time and resources could match it. (Yes I know they are blowing smoke saying this to get the deal blocked for a thousand reasons I am just joking)

 

[Prine]

Isn't Era like one of the most capitalist-critical gaming-oriented spaces on the Internet?

Why is there such a tacit celebration of the American supergiant literally personal data-selling company Microsoft buying everything and undercutting every competitor to bleed the competition to death?

I swear I feel like I'm being gaslit by the entire planet; surely someone can see through this bullshit?

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Will applaud anyone that pools its money into making games more accessible to people as part of its business model. The fact your having a hard time comprehending that might reflect how narrow your perspective maybe.

 

[MrWindUpBird]

Isn't Era like one of the most capitalist-critical gaming-oriented spaces on the Internet?

Why is there such a tacit celebration of the American supergiant literally personal data-selling company Microsoft buying everything and undercutting every competitor to bleed the competition to death?

I swear I feel like I'm being gaslit by the entire planet; surely someone can see through this bullshit?

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It's console wars. That's literally all it is. Xbox is in a good position compare to when the Xbox One generation started so now you've got the old veterans coming out to defend the company, just like Sony has for multiple years. Era is capitalist critic on the surface, nothing more.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Microsoft being large has no bearing on Xbox. Hell, there were calls from shareholders to shut down Xbox in 2014.

These deals should absolutely be seen from the perspective of Xbox and not Microsoft. At least when it comes to console exclusivity. Of course Activision also includes Blizzard and King which is more a play on PC/mobile and is more an initiative by "Microsoft Gaming" than Xbox.

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It absolutely has a bearing on it. Unless Xbox isn't leveraging any of the resources or technology of Microsoft at large. Their whole play is integrating Xbox with the greater Microsoft environment which is why Phil Spencer is a VP of Microsoft Gaming and not VP of Xbox. Microsoft is buying Activision with Microsoft money. What is the Xbox perspective in all this?

 

[Taleboules]

Yes. Resident Evil Village has a deal of the sort in place

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In this case, it's a win-win deal. 3rd party games sell really poorly on Xbox these days if you're not on the Game Pass. For indies, it's worse, either you're on GP Day One and you cash your check from Microsoft or you won't exist at all on release.

 

[Infinity Times Two]

Microsoft claims Sony pays for “blocking rights” to keep games off Xbox Game Pass

The claims were made in legal documents to a Brazilian regulator.

www.theverge.com

Microsoft has claimed Sony pays for "blocking rights" to stop developers from adding their content to Xbox Game Pass. The explosive claims are part of documents (Word doc) filed with Brazil's national competition regulator and part of a review of Microsoft's acquisition of Activision Blizzard.

"Microsoft's ability to continue expanding Game Pass has been hampered by Sony's desire to inhibit such growth," claims Microsoft in an August 9th filing to the Administrative Council for Economic Defense (CADE), as translated from Portuguese. "Sony pays for 'blocking rights' to prevent developers from adding content to Game Pass and other competing subscription services."

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[vestan]

Insightful read, OP. Thanks again for doing these.

It is not part of Microsoft's strategy to remove content from players

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It's probably to give regulators ease of mind but it's good they continue to stress this.

They also point out that the use of exclusive arrangements has been at the heart of Sony's strategy to strengthen its presence in the gaming industry. MS says that in addition to owning exclusive first-party content, Sony has also entered into agreements with third-party publishers to secure other forms of exclusivity with respect to certain games, such as marketing exclusivity or exclusivity rights with respect to downloadable content.

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Everyone else has already said it but Sony doesn't really have a leg to stand on here. Neither do MS. That's just business. I don't want to come off as a corporate apologist but much of what MS is currently doing (acquiring publishers, timed exclusive deals) isn't entirely unknown to Sony. The latter has practically been Sony's MO to bolster their content portfolio for decades.

The reality of the situation is that gaming has become more lucrative than ever and Microsoft have correctly identified that they have to play ball in this incredibly competitive environment in order to stay relevant, hedging their bets with subscription services, cloud gaming, mobile gaming and a whole lot more. Their ambitions don't start and end with the console anymore. Companies are going to play dirty to gain the edge, especially one as large as Microsoft. It is what it is.

MS also says that this complaint to services such as Game Pass also reveals Sony's real concern: "The fear that an innovative business model that gives consumers access to high-quality content and lower up-front costs threatens its position as leadership in the gaming industry, with Microsoft moving away from a "device-centric" business strategy (in the sense that gamers must buy expensive PCs or consoles to have access to the best quality games) towards a more consumer-centric ("gamer-centric")."

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[Toriko]

Explosive claims lol.

"Amazon prime has marketing rights for a few movies which are banned from being added to competing services explosive claims say"

 

[ThisIsBlitz21]

MS basically crushed Sony's argument here.

For a long time now Sony has buying out third party content to be exclusive, to hurt the competition. Anti gamepass clauses especially are quite petty.

Edit: I hope this goes through because having Activision Blizzard's catalog on game pass would be really cool.

 

[Lobster Roll]

The anti-moneyhat has been an open secret since like the dawn of time.

 

[PeskyToaster]

Call of Duty is unmatched, in a catagory of it's own after all and no company even if they had the time and resources could match it. (Yes I know they are blowing smoke saying this to get the deal blocked for a thousand reasons I am just joking)

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Yeah that's all this back-and-forth is. Sony is blowing smoke to puff up Call of Duty's importance (though it is important) and Microsoft is downplaying themselves hard. "Pity us, regulators, poor tiny Microsoft with its wimpy last place Xbox console. Oh how can we hope to compete!" is what it reads like in some places lol.

 

[Deleted member 93062]

It absolutely has a bearing on it. Unless Xbox isn't leveraging any of the resources or technology of Microsoft at large. Their whole play is integrating Xbox with the greater Microsoft environment which is why Phil Spencer is a VP of Microsoft Gaming and not VP of Xbox. Microsoft is buying Activision with Microsoft money. What is the Xbox perspective in all this?

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When we're talking about market share, Microsoft being the parent company absolutely has no bearing. You cant just shrug off Sony nearing 50%+ market share in the console space with "but Microsoft is a bigger company", thats silly.

The same reason we wouldn't say Stadia and Luna are bigger than PlayStation.

 

[NutterB]

In this case, it's a win-win deal. 3rd party games sell really poorly on Xbox these days if you're not on the Game Pass. For indies, it's worse, either you're on GP Day One and you cash your check from Microsoft or you won't exist at all on release.

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I need receipts of this claim of third party games selling really poorly. You don't know this.

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

Checkmate I would say. Super interesting read, thank you OP.

 

[Theorry]

Sony walked into that one.

 

[00Quan[T]]

Microsoft claims Sony pays for “blocking rights” to keep games off Xbox Game Pass

The claims were made in legal documents to a Brazilian regulator.

www.theverge.com

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I remember people saying that RE Village contract was fake lol.

 

[BabyDontHurtMe]

When we're talking about market share, Microsoft being the parent company absolutely has no bearing. You cant just shrug off Sony nearing 50%+ market share in the console space with "but Microsoft is a bigger company", thats silly.

The same reason we wouldn't say Stadia and Luna are bigger than PlayStation.

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Is Xbox really on the same scale as Stadia or Lune though? Didn't you say yourself that Microsoft would be the biggest publisher after this deal would close? I think that's pretty notable tbh.

 

[Jmdajr]

Fun times.

 

[Tigerfish419]

Era > Internet > Era

Microsoft responds to Sony's claim that Call of Duty is unrivaled & unique (Claims Sony is paying to block games from Gamepass) Activision/Blizzard

INTRODUCTION Well, here we go again :p Microsoft is acquiring Activision Blizzard and the transaction is under review from multiple competition regulators around the world. One of them is the Administrative Council for Economic Defense or CADE in Brazil. Back in July, CADE asked 11 third...

www.resetera.com

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To be fair this is all public knowledge, no offence to the work the legend Idas is.

Yeah that's all this back-and-forth is. Sony is blowing smoke to puff up Call of Duty's importance (though it is important) and Microsoft is downplaying themselves hard. "Pity us, regulators, poor tiny Microsoft with its wimpy last place Xbox console. Oh how can we hope to compete!" is what it reads like in some places lol.

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Yeah both are obviously pushing their side, which should be no shock to anyone. The things Sony say are funny though with what they've done now and in the past and Microsoft trying to downplay how big cod is, that's funny too but I do agree with Microsoft more on it not shuttering down Sony if it went exclusive or not, Sony is too big, though it would hurt them money wise which they want to protect which is perfectly fine and would be dumb if they didn't try protect it.

 

[Deleted member 93062]

Is Xbox really on the same scale as Stadia or Lune though? Didn't you say yourself that Microsoft would be the biggest publisher after this deal would close? I think that's pretty notable tbh.

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Biggest publisher doesn't automatically give them console market share. Sony will still probably be the largest console manufacturer this generation by a country mile.

 

[Azerth]

Microsoft has had marketing rights for a lot of games that still end up selling better on Playstation including Battlefield. If its not going exclusive I dont think they care too much tbh. Maybe having it on gamepass might make a dent to the community but honestly I dont think it will be substantial. Or at least as substantial as going exclusive.

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having the marketing for cod is a big deal. they will be able to have console bundles, exclusive access or content(i dont think they will do content), then there the gamepass vs $70

 

[Tigerfish419]

I remember people saying that RE Village contract was fake lol.

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This is a indirect way to confirm it was probably real.

 

[platocplx]

When we're talking about market share, Microsoft being the parent company absolutely has no bearing. You cant just shrug off Sony nearing 50%+ market share in the console space with "but Microsoft is a bigger company", thats silly.

The same reason we wouldn't say Stadia and Luna are bigger than PlayStation.

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This is quite honestly some of the most intellectually dishonest arguments here.

COD doesnt get bought if they dont have the parent company money. Xbox alone did not have 70 billion+ in cash just earmarked for themselves. You cannot just in one sentence separate xbox as its own thing and in the same breath says sony with whole company is the only one with the market share when its SIE which is also apart of a larger company sony. There is zero firewall between xbox and having access to the massive cash reserves they have other than the CEO saying yes or no.

there is no regulator in the world just going to evaluate just on the market size alone when xbox and MS are operating from the same exact bank account.

 

[00Quan[T]]

This is a indirect way to confirm it was probably real.

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Oh for sure, that document came out when Capcom was hacked into space.

 

[nolifebr]

Does anyone really doubt that Sony adds Game Pass/Service clauses in their contracts?

I guess pretty much every game Sony pays to have the marketing rights has some sort of "game needs to come to PS Plus before other services" or "game can't appear on other services until X months".

Almost sure that MS does the same with all those indies they pay to have Day 1.

 

[BabyDontHurtMe]

Biggest publisher doesn't automatically give them console market share. Sony will still probably be the largest console manufacturer this generation by a country mile.

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Consoles are just one part of the gaming industry. We all know Microsoft has a massive platform through windows that easily dwarfs PlayStation. Microsoft themselves embraces the multiplatform model with Minecraft and soon Call of Duty. I seriously question the logic of MS being an underdog just because they're slightly behind in one sector of gaming, especially when they own massive IPs that Sony could kill to have.

 

[--R]

Does anyone really doubt that Sony adds Game Pass/Service clauses in their contracts?

I guess pretty much every game Sony pays to have the marketing rights has some sort of "game needs to come to PS Plus before other services" or "game can't appear on other services until X months".

Almost sure that MS does the same with all those indies they pay to have Day 1.

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Every company (Nintendo, Sony, MS) does it, it's widely known industry-wise. I'm surprised people didn't realise this until now.

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

If only Sony got half as the shit Epic gets in this forum when they have been the main offender at paying to keep games out of other platforms..

 

[YuyoMoriarty]

Ms: they do bad

Also ms: lets buy everything

 

[Deleted member 93062]

This is quite honestly some of the most intellectually dishonest arguments here.

COD doesnt get bought if they dont have the parent company money. Xbox alone did not have 70 billion+ in cash just earmarked for themselves. You cannot just in one sentence separate xbox as its own thing and in the same breath says sony with whole company is the only one with the market share when its SIE which is also apart of a larger company sony. There is zero firewall between xbox and having access to the massive cash reserves they have other than the CEO saying yes or no.

there is no regulator in the world just going to evaluate just on the market size alone when xbox and MS are operating from the same exact bank account.

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Lol… this isn't what the original context of that was. The whole point was someone suggesting that Microsoft "could still buy Sony" as a way to dismiss someone saying that Microsoft just wants to compete with Sony who is #1. Not that Xbox couldn't buy ABK without MSFT. But keep calling stuff you dont even know the context to, disingenuous…

 

[Tigerfish419]

Does anyone really doubt that Sony adds Game Pass/Service clauses in their contracts?

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I can guarantee you there are people who probably still doubt it.

Almost sure that MS does the same with all those indies they pay to have Day 1.

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The only time I'm ok with any sort of exclusive stuff is with indies because it can help fund their development most of the time. I don't think Microsoft is blocking Sony from having games in their service. Wasn't it just announced all the Yakuza games going into PS+ and they're on Game Pass right now and only recently returned IE signed a new deal so there didn't seem to be any sort of deal there.

 

[platocplx]

Every company (Nintendo, Sony, MS) does it, it's widely known industry-wise. I'm surprised people didn't realise this until now.

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People knew this way back when with the capcom leaks, im sure every single media deal on the market have these exclusive deals if they are paying real money to market, develop etc said product, its a risk mitigation clause to ensure they have a return on their investment.

 

[Deleted member 93062]

Consoles are just one part of the gaming industry. We all know Microsoft has a massive platform through windows that easily dwarfs PlayStation. Microsoft themselves embraces the multiplatform model with Minecraft and soon Call of Duty. I seriously question the logic of MS being an underdog just because they're slightly behind in one sector of gaming, especially when they own massive IPs that Sony could kill to have.

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Consoles are the biggest part of the equation especially when we're talking about Call of Duty. Sony isn't talking about Candy Crush when they talk about how Microsoft even having them (not even making exclusive) is anti competitive.

 

[SimplyComplex]

I still think CW was the start of the decline, MTX sales might have been high but unit sales is a better metric because there could be 1M people who all spend $100 each which gives a big number compared to 5M who spend $5 each for example. But I do agree Vanguard was the main reason, "the last nail in the coffin" the famous term people love to say for COD lol.

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Cold War joined the top 20 best selling games of all time in the US after just 2 months. It was a breakaway success which is why Treyarch supported it for so long.

Vanguard definitely dropped the ball but it's really no different than when Infinite Warfare was at its lowest point.

 

[00Quan[T]]

Ms: they do bad

Also ms: lets buy everything

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"Everything"
People really need to realize how massive the industry is.