Microsoft joins group that would prevent lawsuits against companies causing climate change (With support from WWF).

CthulhuSars · May 2, 2019

OrdinaryPrime said:
People saying no one is reading the article, my issue is trying to gain immunity for past actions is a Ted Faro level of disgusting. Regardless of the carbon based stuff in here, you don't get to erase history.

It is bullshit but it is bullshit on a carrot to entice the larger companies to get on board. The problem is how the OP was created as a driveby shit post to do a quick burn on MS while leaving out major parts of the article such as why MS is backing this idea.

Hey Please · May 2, 2019

The impetus for MS joining CLC insofar as public disclosure it concerned seems admirable enough, MS playing the cunning hero trying navigate the bullshit of politics and degenerate republicans; it would naive to assume that that saving their own ass was not part of the reason as well.

Furthermore:

"Microsoft is throwing King county taxpayers under the bus by endorsing the Baker-Schultz-Exxon proposal that would void the county's lawsuit against Exxon, leaving King county residents on the hook for all the costs of climate adaptation," said Richard Wiles, director of the Center for Climate Integrity.

Putting a price on carbon is viewed by proponents as the most effective way of both slashing emissions and garnering support among Republicans who have refused to address the existential threat of climate change. The concept was bolstered last year by the Nobel prize committee, which handed its economics award to Yale's William Nordhaus, who has long called for a tax on emissions.

There is evidence that any carbon fee would have to be ratcheted up swiftly in order to change behaviour and transition the world away from fossil fuels. A landmark report by the UN last year estimated that governments would need to impose carbon prices of $135 to $5,500 a ton by 2030 to help avoid disastrous climate change, with this figure ballooning to $27,000 a ton by the end of the century.

I guess we will eventually find out how MS fares.

Bandage · May 2, 2019

I love that people think this was a console wars thread.
Sorry, Microsoft and all these companies dont magically get a pass for decades of fucking up the planet.
Every single one of them have known from their inception what harm they're doing.
They shouldnt be immune from past damages because the planet sure as shit isnt.
It's great that they're just now doing something but it doesnt change the past.

ForgedByGeeks · May 2, 2019

OrdinaryPrime said:
People saying no one is reading the article, my issue is trying to gain immunity for past actions is a Ted Faro level of disgusting. Regardless of the carbon based stuff in here, you don't get to erase history.

Yes, because causing humanity's extinction is on the same level as trying to protect a few companies that are now trying to save the world from past actions.

But sure, hyperbole is fun...

Detective · May 2, 2019

thekonamicode said:
That's a big YIKES from me. What the fuck are they thinking?

Resiverence said:
What the actual fuck microsoft????

Magic Mushroom said:
Gross.

armandojmendoza said:
Disappointing to say the least.

Crayon said:
If we're reading this quite right, that's ass.

Samaritan said:
Fuck off.

Yog-Sothoth said:
PS5, it is.

SturokBGD said:
They'll get away with it, too.

Retroarnold said:
That's really fucked up.

That would actually put me off buying any Microsoft product/service. Including the new Xbox.

Hours Left said:
That's fucking disgusting.

Unkindled said:
I can't get behind that.

Crayon said:
I got off that bullshit years ago because I didn't like their activities.

John Frost said:
Fuck off MS, or not.

NHarmonic. said:
Of course, this is microsoft. Who cares if the planet ends up a dead shell, as long as they earned and spent their fucking money.

Awful.

Kernel said:
So can we call them M$ again?

Wow

bsigg · May 2, 2019

Bandage said:
I love that people think this was a console wars thread.
Sorry, Microsoft and all these companies dont magically get a pass for decades of fucking up the planet.
Every single one of them have known from their inception what harm they're doing.
They shouldnt be immune from past damages because the planet sure as shit isnt.
It's great that they're just now doing something but it doesnt change the past.

You posted it in Gaming
You specifically called out not buying a gaming console

Where did you think this was going?

Silky · May 2, 2019

Garbage decision

Fuhgeddit · May 2, 2019

It's kind of hilarious at the reactions. I have to admit, I was one of them this time that was like eh microsoft. Practice what you preach I guess, read the article.

Josh378 · May 2, 2019

Thread not backfire....thread is redeemed. Corporations trying to get off of Jail free card after fucking up the planet for decades. They should be liable for damages AND create an law for environmental protection for each corporation.

Jerm411 · May 2, 2019

Bandage said:
I love that people think this was a console wars thread.
Sorry, Microsoft and all these companies dont magically get a pass for decades of fucking up the planet.
Every single one of them have known from their inception what harm they're doing.
They shouldnt be immune from past damages because the planet sure as shit isnt.
It's great that they're just now doing something but it doesnt change the past.

...............................

Bandage said:
Makes the decision to not buy their next console really easy.

Detective · May 2, 2019

Bandage said:
I love that people think this was a console wars thread.
Sorry, Microsoft and all these companies dont magically get a pass for decades of fucking up the planet.
Every single one of them have known from their inception what harm they're doing.
They shouldnt be immune from past damages because the planet sure as shit isnt.
It's great that they're just now doing something but it doesnt change the past.

Oh please don't try to sugar coated now.
You left out information
You posted it in gaming
You said you ain't gonna buy their console.

Just the the L and move on.

Yog-Sothoth · May 2, 2019

Detective said:
Wow

I have a limited data plan, so I trusted OP's extract. My fault :p

Locust Star · May 2, 2019

why was this moved to etcetera? Microsoft is a videogames company.

Deleted member 8561 · May 2, 2019

This site is embarrassing on a regular basis.

Locust Star said:
why was this moved to etcetera? Microsoft is a videogames company.

It has nothing to do with the gaming division and the actual content of the OP was greatly mis-represented.

Ascenion · May 2, 2019

Bandage said:
I love that people think this was a console wars thread.
Sorry, Microsoft and all these companies dont magically get a pass for decades of fucking up the planet.
Every single one of them have known from their inception what harm they're doing.
They shouldnt be immune from past damages because the planet sure as shit isnt.
It's great that they're just now doing something but it doesnt change the past.

You didn't put ANY of this in your original OP. You basically wrote a hit piece and framed it around not buying an xbox. The way the thread played out is 100% on you. Plus you posted it in gaming side where it doesn't belong.

Microsoft · May 2, 2019

Please don't hurt me.

LegalEagleMike · May 2, 2019

Locust Star said:
why was this moved to etcetera? Microsoft is a videogames company.

because it has nothing to do with gaming. Would you like all google related news to be on gaming side now?

Hyun Sai · May 2, 2019

Locust Star said:
why was this moved to etcetera? Microsoft is a videogames company.

Is this sarcasm ? I can't tell anymore...

Deleted member 4260 · May 2, 2019

This thread should honestly be closed if it's just gonna be shitting on other users here.

Crayon · May 2, 2019

Detective said:
Wow

Wow what? Did I say something out of line or are you over sensitive about any company in particular.

Locust Star · May 2, 2019

TheLostBigBoss said:
This site is embarrassing on a regular basis.

It has nothing to do with the gaming division and the actual content of the OP was greatly mis-represented.

LegalEagleMike said:
because it has nothing to do with gaming. Would you like all google related news to be on gaming side now?

Hyun Sai said:
Is this sarcasm ? I can't tell anymore...

Microsoft's practices towards sustainability has a lot to do with gaming. Where do you think Xbox Live is coming from? The manufacturing of their consoles? Microsoft's stance towards trying to escape its culpabitlity in climate change is very much related to videogames.

Unless you are some of those "keep my politics out of my videogames" type of people.

Cipherr · May 2, 2019

super anime man 64 said:
This thread should honestly be closed if it's just gonna be shitting on other users here.

Nah, if you jump to conclusions and embarrass yourself you gotta hold the L. We all are guilty of it at some point or another. The thread move is fine though, this belongs on etc, and was clearly being used as some fanboy console war nonsense before it backfired anyway.

Deleted member 1003 · May 2, 2019

Obviously the protection from lawsuits is troublesome, looking at the companies and groups involved, as well as the people, I find it hard to believe that group is invested in destroying the planet.

Deleted member 8561 · May 2, 2019

Locust Star said:
Microsoft's practices towards sustainability has a lot to do with gaming. Where do you think Xbox Live is coming from? The manufacturing of their consoles? Microsoft's stance towards trying to escape its culpabitlity in climate change is very much related to videogames.

Unless you are some of those "keep my politics out of my videogames" type of people.

I really do enjoy people trying so hard to impress random internet people that they don't even skim through a four page thread or read the mod edits!

MS is a company with gaming as a fraction of their business. This decision has nothing to do with gaming and the topic of climate change and policy/carbon tax/fees quite literally is what OFF TOPIC was designed to hold.

Do you really think Microsoft would be held legally liable for housing data centers? The goal is to get major oil companies and sectors of the economy to join in an alliance to reduce emissions via a tax on carbon with the legal protection of not being prosecuted. That's actually worthy of debate, but MS is pretty clearly joining the group to lobby for a price on carbon. Major environmental groups are backing this idea of getting as many companies to join via offering legal immunity. Maybe you should read up on why they are doing such a thing instead of bashing your face against a keyboard?

Chick3n · May 2, 2019

Bandage said:
Sorry, Microsoft and all these companies dont magically get a pass for decades of fucking up the planet.

If they're all guilty you'll be quitting gaming entirely then?

Deleted member 12352 · May 2, 2019

Yikes

I figured I had to be misunderstanding the thread title somehow but nope, it's just as fucked up as it sounded.

Get fucked MS. This is straight evil.

Hours Left · May 2, 2019

Detective said:
Wow

Hi! I did read the article and stand by what I said.

Thanks for the drive by shaming though~ 👍

Deleted member 4260 · May 2, 2019

Cipherr said:
Nah, if you jump to conclusions and embarrass yourself you gotta hold the L. We all are guilty of it at some point or another. The thread move is fine though, this belongs on etc, and was clearly being used as some fanboy console war nonsense before it backfired anyway.

People posting "LOL ERA HIVEMIND" gets fucking annoying. Like, you post on this website too.

DopeyFish · May 2, 2019

Wolfman said:
Yikes

I figured I had to be misunderstanding the thread title somehow but nope, it's just as fucked up as it sounded.

Get fucked MS. This is straight evil.

what in the everloving fuck are you talking about

Kendall · May 2, 2019

Josh378 said:
Thread not backfire....thread is redeemed. Corporations trying to get off of Jail free card after fucking up the planet for decades. They should be liable for damages AND create an law for environmental protection for each corporation.

Almost every corporation in the United States that is older than a few decades and the government itself would be liable. We didn't know better back then. We can pursue laws that give people better working conditions and not spank the corperations working to limit their impact on their own accord, or make the corporations pay big time because of mistakes made by what were probably different management teams entirely

Deleted member 8561 · May 2, 2019

Kendall said:
Almost every corporation in the United States that is older than a few decades and the government itself would be liable. We didn't know better back then. We can pursue laws that give people better working conditions and not spank the corperations working to limit their impact on their own accord, or make the corporations pay big time because of mistakes made by what were probably different management teams entirely

Yes we did.

The concept of global warming due to emissions was being explored in the 40's and basically well understood by oil producers in the 60's and beyond.

It only became a general public field of topic in the early 90's and into the mainstream by the early 2000's

LegendofJoe · May 2, 2019

Kendall said:
Almost every corporation in the United States that is older than a few decades and the government itself would be liable. We didn't know better back then. We can pursue laws that give people better working conditions and not spank the corperations working to limit their impact on their own accord, or make the corporations pay big time because of mistakes made by what were probably different management teams entirely

Exactly, going for vengeance/justice right now is a waste of time.

Hours Left · May 2, 2019

Kendall said:
Almost every corporation in the United States that is older than a few decades and the government itself would be liable. We didn't know better back then. We can pursue laws that give people better working conditions and not spank the corperations working to limit their impact on their own accord, or make the corporations pay big time because of mistakes made by what were probably different management teams entirely

We certainly did.

samoyed · May 2, 2019

Nah, fine them to the ground then sink that money into reforestation and R&D for carbon capture technologies and climate change relief.

"We didn't know" isn't nearly good enough. Also, they did know, at least Exxon did.

From the late 1970s and through the 1980s, Exxon funded internal and university collaborations, broadly in line with the developing public scientific approach. From the 1980s to mid 2000s, the company was a leader in climate change denial, opposing regulations to curtail global warming. ExxonMobil funded organizations critical of the Kyoto Protocol and sought to undermine public opinion about the scientific consensus that global warming is caused by the burning of fossil fuels. Exxon helped to found and lead the Global Climate Coalition of businesses opposed to the regulation of greenhouse gas emissions. More recently it has expressed support for a carbon tax and the Paris agreement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExxonMobil_climate_change_controversy

Now that the oil gravy train is starting to dry up and they've already plundered it for all it's worth, they're magnanimously reaching out their hands saying "okay, now that I already fucked all of you over and got mine in the process, I'm willing to cooperate".

NO.

MatrixMan.exe · May 2, 2019

subrock said:
I read the article and now can confidently say - Shitty call, MS. They're trying to hide behind this saying "it's all about our support for a carbon tax" and then totally waffle on the question of legal immunity. If you support a carbon tax there are definitely other organizations out there not run but conservatives and oil companies that are far less problematic.

Good on you for reading the article. A lot of people aren't though, it's pretty obvious lol

Cranster · May 2, 2019

Hours Left said:
We certainly did.

No we really didn't, I remember growing up in the 90's and the biggest concern at the time was the hole in the ozone layer. It was not public knowledge like it is today.

Fisty · May 2, 2019

$15 per ton of carbon emissions? Is that right? Seems comically low

Deleted member 48897 · May 2, 2019

Yet again I ask, can it really be clickbait to someone who didn't read past the headline?

samoyed said:
This is a pretty naked attempt to preserve corporate power when they're liable to be held accountable for abusing that power and not a moment sooner.

Yeah, people are I think giving Microsoft (and all these other companies) a lot of benefit of the doubt here that I don't think they really deserve. This is them finally seeing the writing on the wall. They might be saying that they're not joining this because of the potential for protection against litigation for their actions, but anyone who believes MS would actively advocate against its own financial interests is kidding themselves.

Kendall said:
We didn't know better back then.

I don't know about "didn't know better" so much as "didn't care". First research on atmopheric chemicals / greenhouse effect was done in the 1800s. EPA is pushing on 50 years old.

Kyra · May 2, 2019

samoyed · May 2, 2019

Cranster said:
No we really didn't, I remember growing up in the 90's and the biggest concern at the time was the hole in the ozone layer. It was not public knowledge like it is today.

Exxon knew internally because they did the research in the 70s, they just never made it public.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...d-exxons-secret-1980s-climate-change-warnings

In the 1980s, oil companies like Exxon and Shell carried out internal assessments of the carbon dioxide released by fossil fuels, and forecast the planetary consequences of these emissions. In 1982, for example, Exxon predicted that by about 2060, CO2 levels would reach around 560 parts per million – double the preindustrial level – and that this would push the planet's average temperatures up by about 2°C over then-current levels (and even more compared to pre-industrial levels).

So did Shell, apparently.

The reason you didn't know in the 90s is due to lobbying efforts by Exxon and friends to suppress it.

Hours Left · May 2, 2019

Cranster said:
No we really didn't, I remember growing up in the 90's and the biggest concern at the time was the hole in the ozone layer. It was not public knowledge like it is today.

Your personal experience is meaningless in this context. It's been studied for decades.

Fart Master · May 2, 2019

Kendall said:
Almost every corporation in the United States that is older than a few decades and the government itself would be liable. We didn't know better back then. We can pursue laws that give people better working conditions and not spank the corperations working to limit their impact on their own accord, or make the corporations pay big time because of mistakes made by what were probably different management teams entirely

We've known since the mid 60s

Kendall · May 2, 2019

TheLostBigBoss said:
Yes we did.

The concept of global warming due to emissions was being explored in the 40's and basically well understood by oil producers in the 60's and beyond.

It only became a general public field of topic in the early 90's and into the mainstream by the early 2000's

We had no idea the scope of the damage for a while and it didn't become a mainstream practice until years later.

If you want someone to blame, blame the government. Not companies that are left to do whatever they want unchecked all those years

Deleted member 8561 · May 2, 2019

Kendall said:
We had no idea the scope of the damage for a while and it didn't become a mainstream practice until years later.

If you want someone to blame, blame the government. Not companies that are left to do whatever they want unchecked all those years

Yes, we did.

Hours Left · May 2, 2019

Kendall said:
We had no idea the scope of the damage for a while and it didn't become a mainstream practice until years later.

If you want someone to blame, blame the government. Not companies that are left to do whatever they want unchecked all those years

You're incorrect again.

samoyed · May 2, 2019

Kendall said:
We had no idea the scope of the damage for a while and it didn't become a mainstream practice until years later.

Exxon's private prediction of the future growth of carbon dioxide levels (left axis) and global temperature relative to 1982 (right axis). Elsewhere in its report, Exxon noted that the most widely accepted science at the time indicated that doubling carbon dioxide levels would cause a global warming of 3°C. Illustration: 1982 Exxon internal briefing document

God you are literally parroting the corporate line and I don't know if you're even aware of it.

Nor did the companies ever take responsibility for their products. In Shell's study, the firm argued that the "main burden" of addressing climate change rests not with the energy industry, but with governments and consumers. That argument might have made sense if oil executives, including those from Exxon and Shell, had not later lied about climate change and actively prevented governments from enacting clean-energy policies.

America Corporatespeak 101: Blame the government and consumers

Cranster · May 2, 2019

samoyed said:
Exxon knew internally because they did the research in the 70s, they just never made it public.

https://www.theguardian.com/environ...d-exxons-secret-1980s-climate-change-warnings

So did Shell, apparently.

The reason you didn't know in the 90s is due to lobbying efforts by Exxon and friends to suppress it.

That still doesn't refute the fact that the majority of corporations had little to no knowledge. Microsoft included as they were a software company.

Inuhanyou · May 2, 2019

Pretty much what i would expect from a modern day corporation. They have dropped pretenses around good PR due to basically zero goverment oversight

PSqueak said:
Wait, what?

Does Bill Gates not have any say on this anymore? isn't he pretty pro environment and all about the climate change awareness?

Dont trust billionares who tell you they are good people

LegendofJoe · May 2, 2019

samoyed said:
Now that the oil gravy train is starting to dry up and they've already plundered it for all it's worth, they're magnanimously reaching out their hands saying "okay, now that I already fucked all of you over and got mine in the process, I'm willing to cooperate"

The people who run these companies and the politicians who gladly take their money are fucking scum. There is no doubt about that. But they still have way too much power and influence to slow action. So if we have to bribe these evil motherfuckers to get rid of political opposition in the short-term so be it.

samoyed · May 2, 2019

Cranster said:
That still doesn't refute the fact that the majority of corporations had little to no knowledge. Microsoft included as they were a software company.

So why are they providing cover for Exxon and Shell? If you want to give immunity to Microsoft, sure, go ahead.

If you want to package legal and financial immunity for Microsoft alongside the two biggest polluters and proponents of climate change denial in the 90s and 00s you're out of your fucking mind.

Microsoft joins group that would prevent lawsuits against companies causing climate change (With support from WWF).

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