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Microsoft filed a statement in support of Epic's request to keep access to the Apple SDK for its Unreal Engine
- Thread starter dex3108
- Start date
I think Epic doing this on purpose to add to their arguments to show an example to the public of how Apple's monopolistic terms of service can really screw a company, especially smaller companies who don't have enough money to sue Apple. I wouldn't be surprised that on the 28th that they does restore the store to their previous state and keep their lawsuit and use this as an example in their lawsuit against Apple in front of the judge.
Nothing like showing the judge how Apple's terms of service can really be anti-competitive by showing in real-time what happens.
Nothing like showing the judge how Apple's terms of service can really be anti-competitive by showing in real-time what happens.
This isn't a debate. Apple wrote it in their argument against the TRO. It would go both against Apple's own terms, their own legal arguments and strengthen any suit against Apple alleging antitrust behavior.
If you think Epic is this calculated and forward thinking you haven't read the emails that Tim sent Apple. He even referred to Apple's OS as Android. He was also shocked that Apple would have their legal department involved in conversations with him regarding contractual issues.
Do you mean you think Epic might have baited Apple into an approach far more compelling to an anti-trust suit?
I'd thought it kinda funny that the result was worse than the original point Epic we're making, but I'd not considered this was their game.
when did i say i used spotify?
did you.... google my username to see if it had a spotify account?
The fact that Epic is fine in using their engine customers on IOS as hostage in this fight tells me Epic is a scummy company that doesnt deserve a single penny from me.
Whatever you may think of Epic and Tim in particular, there's 0 reason to believe they aren't fully aware about what they got themselves into legally and financially speaking.
I'm just going to disregard that super disrespectful last line and refocus on the fact that we're not discussing the issues enough because of "Apple vs Epic."
Imagine still not understanding the issue.
Nobody over the last few pages is "taking Epic's side." Anyone in this thread at all?! There is clearly a group of people who are well-informed on these issues and understand long-term consequences of monopolies and anti-competitive practices. The hope is that Epic, or better yet a larger group of developers (big and small), or even better yet legislative bodies will cause Apple to change it policies which are detrimental to consumers and various industries.
I'm not so sure about that. Tim Sweeney is exceptionally stupid.
you literally made a thread about using Spotify 4 months ago here on Resetera dot com. it's not a big deal, unless you want to keep suggesting that people should be picking best payout on the market for devs over their user experiences.
How do you find new music?
I used to be good at being active in scenes and actively pursuing new music, but since being in self isolation I've really come to notice how little I actually do that anymore and how much I heavily rely on Spotify Discover to lead me to new bands and songs. But being at home has also kind of...
www.resetera.com
To be more clear then, I don't believe Tim Sweeney was able to do this as a lone wolf move. This went through, at the very least, a massive review of their legal team.
Even if that is true, Epic winning the case could lead to the opening of the IOS environment - and Android for that matter. So even if your sentiment of Epic being here for their own money is true, the precedent this will create before the law is far more important to us users.
oh so you just went through my post history. still pretty weird my guyyou literally made a thread about using Spotify 4 months ago here on Resetera dot com. it's not a big deal, unless you want to keep suggesting that people should be picking best payout on the market for devs over their user experiences.
How do you find new music?
I used to be good at being active in scenes and actively pursuing new music, but since being in self isolation I've really come to notice how little I actually do that anymore and how much I heavily rely on Spotify Discover to lead me to new bands and songs. But being at home has also kind of...
and it also does not really have anything to do with my argument at all? i'm saying that a user having to download a free app is not comparable to a company having to give up 30% of their revenue
that's not even close to being the same
maybe dig back further through my posts maybe you'll find the contradictory gotcha post you're clearly looking for
Either make your post history private, or be ok with people having the ability to comb through the archive you've chosen to make public.
people can still see your posts if you make your profile private and having an open profile is not an invitation to have people trawl through your post history to try to get a one up on you
FOH with this
I don't see how the Fortnite issue has to do with dev tools. There's already precedent with companies entangled in a legal battle on one issue but continuing to be partners on other things. When Apple sued Samsung and took them to court over phone design issues, Samsung didn't retaliate and stopped producing screens for iPhones or stopped supplying RAM chips. The Fortnite iOS conflict doesn't justify this type of retaliation IMO. It just seems childish to me. Specially when it has the potential to impact other devs and even Apple themselves in the long run with certain games just not being available on their platform.
I know this is the Internet, but it's ok every once in the while to say, "yeah, good point, I should have expected them to do that". That said, that's a good point, I also don't like people trawling through posts for a one-up. Thus, I make my shit private.
what?
they literally didn't make a good point?
also your post history is still visible even thought your profile is private. you just need to hover over your username and then click the number of posts and you can still see the entirety of your post history
Who knows, but up to this point the risk for Epic was pretty modest relative to the reward.
Consider Apple's stance on this: reverse the payment change and you're back on the store and in the dev program. The most recent data I could find in a quick search was from 2018 (though Fortnite isn't less popular now by any means), but at that time Fortnite on iOS was $1.23M a DAY. Apple gets 30%. If its only still meeting those numbers despite increased distribution and popularity thats $134M a year for Apple. They might be worth trillions now but they didn't get there by passing up hundreds of millions.
Meanwhile Fortnite players who already had the app are still playing and paying, just directly to Epic and at only 20% less than full freight, i.e. Epic is netting 10% more per purchase.
I'm not big on conspiracy theories but I wouldn't be surprised if the view from Epic was that they had enough legal standing to test boundaries with limited risk and potentially a whole lot of reward, so why not see how Apple responds? Lo and behold we have this latest action, concurrent with Apple's WordPress snafu. While the later is resolved collectively they begin to build a worthwhile narrative that Apple is in fact engaged in anti-trust, just on such a level that most partners self-police so it never needs to be made explicit.
the dispute is with a company, Epic, saying they are now and in the future unwilling to comply with App Store rules, and since Epic maintains licenses across many other apps, they can't continue those services to other devs using the App Store.
Also you are wrong, Samsung went ham trying to kill iPhone entirely instead of just seeking a stop to a specific part or patent use in future devices
Samsung Seeks Ban on Apple Products Sale in U.S.
Samsung Electronics Co. said that it expanded its legal tussle with Apple Inc. by filing a complaint with the International Trade Commission seeking to stop the sale of key Apple products in the U.S.
www.wsj.com
Because he was ridiculously hostile in pretty much every post he made in this thread? Not sure how you missed it.
Ah, well there it is. I always figured everything was knotted up if you made it all private. I'm a big privacy dork, and I didn't know it was all viewable by clicking post count. Appreciate you letting me know, be well dude.
You guys are legit blind and only see what you want. There is a bigger picture but you guys have your blinders on.
Side note, while I didn't know about the "click post count" thing, seeing as there's a search function that lets you search for posts by specific usernames only, I would have assumed a practical lack of privacy either way
Are people really trying to pretend that Epic had no clue what was going to happen? That Apple are just being petty? Come the fuck on. I have no horse in this race but it's pretty obvious Epic knew exactly what they were doing and were trying to leverage both Fortnite's popularity with gamers and UE4's popularity with devs to force Apple to budge.
Sure, the guy who wrote a huge chunk of the renderer for the first Unreal engine games is "exceptionally stupid".
For sure there is a bigger picture. But While Apple are scummy, Epic too used a scummy way to go through this. Why can't you see that people just don't wanna side with Epic rather than it seeming to you like Apple to them is somehow not scummy overall. You can't expect others to empathize with a company or even think of them as trojan horse for a company that used such an underhanded and disgusting way to bait apple and now is using young minds to rally against apple with cringe skins in fortnite.
you can be inept at business navigations and public relations while coding great lol. they are not related. he's being stupid and the released emails prove it.
On point. Epic could have handled this much better. It's too much of a PR stunt.
MS recognizes that a disruption in the development of Unreal engine will affect their bottom line. That doesn't really help Epic's case.
Epic should remove the offending payment plans while they try their case. Whether you agree with their overall case or not, they are signaling that they are willing to sacrifice their business partners to be used as leverage for their own purposes. I would personally be incredibly wary of starting any project using Unreal until Epic resolves this issue and makes further assurances that they won't behave this way again in the future.
Epic should remove the offending payment plans while they try their case. Whether you agree with their overall case or not, they are signaling that they are willing to sacrifice their business partners to be used as leverage for their own purposes. I would personally be incredibly wary of starting any project using Unreal until Epic resolves this issue and makes further assurances that they won't behave this way again in the future.
they are like totally not related... different parts of the brain and all that.. you can be a genius at coding and a totally awkward at business and social interactions.
And that's why he now has a multi billion dollar company starting from a garage. Again, sure dude.
Don't forget the guy built up a multi billion $$$ company
ResetERA loves to hate on the guy though, and often misrepresents things he says.
Oh well.
Never ever ever equate intelligence in one area of life with intelligence in another.
Makes sense, Microsoft needs to demonstrate ways that they are opposed to other companies' potentially anti-competitive actions as part of their own anti-trust investigations. Plus the longer Unreal is in limbo for Mac and ios the more money they stand to lose as collateral damage.
Apple's TOS clearly state that, if you violate their guidelines, your developer accounts can be suspended or terminated.
Epic willfully violated the TOS.
When you sign up to use middleware, rather than develop your own tools, you are jumping into someone else's boat, rather than building one yourself.
This is fine in most cases, and it saves you the time and trouble of building a boat.
However, if it's your own boat, it'll only sink if YOU mess up.
When you're in someone else's boat, it might sink for reasons beyond your control, and if it does, you're screwed.
Apple is right in the fact that this entire situation was created and orchestrated by Epic. If they are willing to sacrifice all of their iOS developers just to try to get a bigger piece of the pie, that says something about their business, and I hope it impacts the number of developers looking to harness Unreal Engine in the future.
the dispute is with a company, Epic, saying they are now and in the future unwilling to comply with App Store rules, and since Epic maintains licenses across many other apps, they can't continue those services to other devs using the App Store.
Also you are wrong, Samsung went ham trying to kill iPhone entirely instead of just seeking a stop to a specific part or patent use in future devices
Samsung Seeks Ban on Apple Products Sale in U.S.
Samsung Electronics Co. said that it expanded its legal tussle with Apple Inc. by filing a complaint with the International Trade Commission seeking to stop the sale of key Apple products in the U.S.
But Samsung tried fighting back within the same issue Apple were suing them for: Alleged design copying.
Apple is fighting Epic by hitting them with some other unrelated issue. One thing has nothing to do with the other.
