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kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,350
We shouldn't make this bigger than it is though. Let's say Microsoft sold 17ish million games on Steam this year.
  • Age of Empires IV (1-2 million)
  • Psychonauts 2 (500k)
  • Forza Horizon 4 (2-3 million)
  • Forza Horizon 5 (2-3 million)
  • Sea of Thieves (2 million)
  • Halo Infinite (2-3 million)
  • Other games (AoE2DE, MSFS, Grounded, etc.) (2 million)
  • Bethesda games (3-4 million)
Means they made between 500 and 750 million dollars on Steam this year. That's less than 5% of their total revenue.
But it's mostly additive and without a lot of extra work. They are also growing fans of some of their series which can lead to bigger numbers with future entries. Obviously Steam is not a primary focus for MS but 500-750 million extra is pretty significant.
 
Feb 1, 2018
5,240
Europe
We shouldn't make this bigger than it is though. Let's say Microsoft sold 17ish million games on Steam this year.
  • Age of Empires IV (1-2 million)
  • Psychonauts 2 (500k)
  • Forza Horizon 4 (2-3 million)
  • Forza Horizon 5 (2-3 million)
  • Sea of Thieves (2 million)
  • Halo Infinite (2-3 million)
  • Other games (AoE2DE, MSFS, Grounded, etc.) (2 million)
  • Bethesda games (3-4 million)
Means they made between 500 and 750 million dollars on Steam this year. That's less than 5% of their total revenue.
Yeah well... since MS revenue is off the scale, 5% of that is still pretty impressive.
 
Feb 1, 2018
5,240
Europe
Well, having tried it for the very first time yesterday, I never got past the 'microsoft gaming services error. I tried for around three hours and never got anywhere. The service is simply unusable at this point.
Sorry this is bullshit, all of my PC friends are running it without any issues for the last 6 months. There probably are people with issues, but this doesn't qualify as "unusable" and "catastrophic". Like anything on PC, some PCs do not behave, it is a bit inherent to the platform.
 

Androidsleeps

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,583
Sony is porting 3-4 games /year without a porting studio. IMO if you are porting a game after releasing it, it is much easier to find a contractor and make a port by port deal.
Now if you want to port the game at the same time your studio is already developing it then having an internal studio is an almost necessity to create the necessary training and pipelines so that the port can arrive at the same time.


I can't see sony not releasing day one their games on PC in a couple of years.

Yeah, it wouldn't make sense otherwise. Sony didn't acquire a PC porting studio and stress their commitment to PC in multiple interviews because their plan is to only port old games that "dried up", especially when God of War is a game that still shows up in top PSN downloads and is coming to PC in a month. Horizon and GT7 are in the Nvidia leak as well, suggesting a much closer PC release window than what people may have thought. A simultaneous PS5 and PC release is probably happening in 1 or 2 years.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,508
Sorry this is bullshit, all of my PC friends are running it without any issues for the last 6 months. There probably are people with issues, but this doesn't qualify as "unusable" and "catastrophic". Like anything on PC, some PCs do not behave, it is a bit inherent to the platform.

C'mon it happens MUCH more at MS Store than Steam
 

Badcoo

Member
May 9, 2018
1,606
Not making any judgement of anybody's personal financial situation, but these conversations always seem to center on the cost aspect, and people seem to just not be able to understand that for some of us the cost aspect is not the number one factor in where and how we choose to buy our games. If the money is a concern, then GP is absolutely a great option, but some people value other things than just the raw cost of the games.

It's not about financial situation it's more about cost disparity. Assuming people are buying the games at launch MSRP, the difference is pretty big.
As a trial you can get gamepass for 3 months for $1. Pay monthly PC only, $10. MSRP on steam, $60. That's six months of gamepass PC where you also get access to other games.

Yes, the app is shit terrible and there's no excuse for that but there are ways to work around it.
 

BigDes

Knows Too Much
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,791
It's just weird to me cuz you could literally just play these three games for a fraction of the cost. But people just really don't want to leave the Steam bubble.

Edit: the line about the steam bubble was purely about people who never even consider it as an option, not about valid reasons like the various issues some people have experience with install/SSD issues or just purely wanting to own all your games. It was specifically inspired by people I personally know who bought Halo Infinite despite not really being able to afford it.
You've been piled on for this post and I don't want to add on but one thing worth noting is that a number of the games here, Forza, Age of Empires etc have strong mulitplayer components to them and it is often cheaper in the long run to just buy the game up front.

For an RTS like Age of Empires IV for example people will, if the game is good, likely end up playing the multi for several years as their main/only rts game, e.g Starcraft still having a large online community. So it ends up cheaper to just buy the game up front rather than spend £10 a month
 

Mocha Joe

Member
Jun 2, 2021
9,315
Sorry this is bullshit, all of my PC friends are running it without any issues for the last 6 months. There probably are people with issues, but this doesn't qualify as "unusable" and "catastrophic". Like anything on PC, some PCs do not behave, it is a bit inherent to the platform.
There are tons of issues and plenty of people on Era alone that run into issues. Hell, even MS publicly acknowledged it. Don't act like it isn'ta big deal because it is for some.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
Sorry this is bullshit, all of my PC friends are running it without any issues for the last 6 months
I don't think they were speaking for your friends when they said they tried it and couldn't use it.

Not sure why Game Pass needs to be brought up so much in this thread anyway. Maybe it's a big reveal to some that people still buy games despite the service existing, which is cool if it is but like move on. It's not a big deal
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,093
Hull, UK
It's not about financial situation it's more about cost disparity. Assuming people are buying the games at launch MSRP, the difference is pretty big.
As a trial you can get gamepass for 3 months for $1. Pay monthly PC only, $10. MSRP on steam, $60. That's six months of gamepass PC where you also get access to other games.

Yes, the app is shit terrible and there's no excuse for that but there are ways to work around it.

This is true, but it's the assumption that's the issue. Because yeah, if you're buying AAA titles at launch then the price disparity is at it's highest, but there's no real need to buy AAA titles at launch to experience the best of gaming these days. I mean, sure, if that's what people want to do and how they want to experience the hobby, then more power to them, but games drop in price so rapidly these days and get so many post launch patches and content updates that it's almost universally better to wait a bit to get a better deal. And there's always better deals available, there's always free games being offered, or deep discounts available somewhere.

Don't get me wrong, I totally get the value of saving pennies and cents on games. Hell I had £6 to last me this week for food. But overall, unless you're desperate to play a AAA title at launch, it's almost always viable to wait and look for good deals, because those will be coming, to platforms or methods of paying that you appreciate more.
 
Jul 7, 2021
3,076
Ms is a publicly traded company right? When do they release their numbers? I guess we'll see how well pc is paying off for them then?
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,327
You can't tell me they wouldn't have sold more without Gamepass. I would have bought Halo and FH5 myself if not for GP.

But sure, it makes no difference for MS because they get their money either way.

This always comes up.

Gamepass subscribers are a small fraction of the market. Who's to say that whatever sales are lost to Gamepass aren't massively offset by the sales gained from being available on more storefronts and increased word-of-mouth?
 

Deleted member 93062

Account closed at user request
Banned
Mar 4, 2021
24,767
We shouldn't make this bigger than it is though. Let's say Microsoft sold 17ish million games on Steam this year.
  • Age of Empires IV (1-2 million)
  • Psychonauts 2 (500k)
  • Forza Horizon 4 (2-3 million)
  • Forza Horizon 5 (2-3 million)
  • Sea of Thieves (2 million)
  • Halo Infinite (2-3 million)
  • Other games (AoE2DE, MSFS, Grounded, etc.) (2 million)
  • Bethesda games (3-4 million)
Means they made between 500 and 750 million dollars on Steam this year. That's less than 5% of their total revenue.
How much revenue did Sea of Thieves, Forza Horizon 4/5, and Halo Infinite make in micro transactions? A lot of the time MTX generates more money than actual game sales. $1BN+ is around 1/13 Xbox's total revenue (all the games that are sold on Xbox, Xbox Live Gold, microtransactions for third party games [don't have numbers for Xbox but this accounts for ~40% of PS revenue. It's massive.], etc…). Not bad for just first party software on one platform.

Even then, it's less about how much revenue Microsoft made from this and more about how big of a PC publisher they are already. Can't imagine when they're releasing 4-5+ large games a year. They will be the biggest PC publisher period.
 
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PixelatedDonut

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
Philly ❤️
I did.
I even had some issues after migrating to w11, but managed to solve it in 30-40 minutes.
It should be improved for sure, you should at-least have the option to choose per game on which drive you want to install.
But it is still way better than it was a few years ago (horror stories with downloading FH4 multiple times).
I'm guessing you've haven't heard anyone's problems in years because there where no exclusive FH4 problems. There's still download problems, there's still problems with games never uninstalling or disappearing, a games having to be redownload over and over. None of that stopped with FH4, and it didn't start with that game either.
 

SolidSnakeUS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,594
PC was always critical to Xbox strategy, they are one and the same audience. Glad they are now treating it as a primary platform too.

This is helped by good and functional versions of their games on Steam, while GP versions are usually behind everything else and are sometimes problematic in terms of functionality. And MS hasn't really fixed it either in the years that the Windows store has been around.

Really glad they are on Steam, but man do I wish MS would give a real effort to fix their shit with GP on PC.
 

Dis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,937
It's not about financial situation it's more about cost disparity. Assuming people are buying the games at launch MSRP, the difference is pretty big.
As a trial you can get gamepass for 3 months for $1. Pay monthly PC only, $10. MSRP on steam, $60. That's six months of gamepass PC where you also get access to other games.

Yes, the app is shit terrible and there's no excuse for that but there are ways to work around it.

You know there is a not small amount of pc gamers who refuse to use the epic store because it's absolutely awful for features and other reasons compared to steam right?

A literal store where they're giving away free games every 2 weeks and 1 a day for 2 weeks at Xmas, as well as allowing people to outright take $10/£10 off any game over $15/£15 right now even those on sale and there are still people who wont do it because they don't feel epic and/or their store deserves their business while the store is in it's current state.

People are actually chosing to pay $10/£10 more per game in the steam sale right now than they could get it in the epic store at the same sale price and an extra $10/£10 off. There may in fact be a case where plenty of people don't care about the savings gamepass can offer, and that could be for any number of reasons. One reason could be that if the gamepass app is broken, then they may not want to support gamepass until it's fixed so microsoft gets the message.

Now that's one example of a reason but there are any number of reasons people decide everyday to pay more just to avoid certain things. I said it earlier but people decide to avoid amazon or other stores for any reason they may want to even if it means they pay more for a product. People buy digital games on consoles at launch despite the fact that they can get disk copies cheaper in a lot of places purely because they like the ease of digital. Not everything comes down to the price and no matter how much you value gamepass for its price, others may not care.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,971
Canada
We shouldn't make this bigger than it is though. Let's say Microsoft sold 17ish million games on Steam this year.
  • Age of Empires IV (1-2 million)
  • Psychonauts 2 (500k)
  • Forza Horizon 4 (2-3 million)
  • Forza Horizon 5 (2-3 million)
  • Sea of Thieves (2 million)
  • Halo Infinite (2-3 million)
  • Other games (AoE2DE, MSFS, Grounded, etc.) (2 million)
  • Bethesda games (3-4 million)
Means they made between 500 and 750 million dollars on Steam this year. That's less than 5% of their total revenue.
Yeah sure if you ignore microtransactions from Sea of Thieves and Halo Infinite and the fact that Forza Horzion 4 and 5 both have $100 ultimate editions that were super popular. (Forza 5 had 24.6k CCU on steam when the minute Early Access ended, this was entirely Ultimate Edition players 5 days after release on a monday night). Steam also decreases dev cut after a game makes $10m and $50m in revenue, Which most of their big games have no doubt long since passed.

You also have to take in account "Xbox revenue" includes hardware, xbox live gold subs and Minecraft revenue. The minecraft marketplace alone is a massive money maker.
 
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Zaku3

Banned
Mar 20, 2019
689
Indeed, I still have that old copypasta list of all their travails in the Games for Windows Live era.

PC Game Pass has worked alright for me, and I certainly wasn't upset about paying £1 for three months of it recently, even if all I've done with it is play Halo Infinite's single player campaign. If/when DLC or the co-op mode comes out for that, I might reup the subscription or buy in on Steam, knowing that it'll probably be on sale at that point. Either way I'm happy and Microsoft makes a sale, win win.

Turns out options are good!

Imagine if instead of dropping PC gaming like a bad habit this was their business model from day 1 with the OG Xbox.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,949
There are tons of issues and plenty of people on Era alone that run into issues. Hell, even MS publicly acknowledged it. Don't act like it isn'ta big deal because it is for some.

Its gotten a lot better in terms of being functional. At least in my case, as I was one of the ones with issues during my last promo experience. I'm sure some people are still having problems, but I don't think it's still as bad as it was.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,088
Pakistan
It's just weird to me cuz you could literally just play these three games for a fraction of the cost. But people just really don't want to leave the Steam bubble.

Edit: the line about the steam bubble was purely about people who never even consider it as an option, not about valid reasons like the various issues some people have experience with install/SSD issues or just purely wanting to own all your games. It was specifically inspired by people I personally know who bought Halo Infinite despite not really being able to afford it.
The big reason is that Gamepass on PC isn't anything like the seamless xbox console experience. Its riddled with bugs and issues. The common man/woman would not deal with these and just either play these games on console gamepass or just buy them on PC.

This is aside from the reason that people on PC when it comes to PAID games, Majorly buy and play on STEAM. There are other platforms but they're very specific to their few set of games or not even close to being as big as STEAM revenue wise.

Paid PC gaming is STEAM.

Thats been the perception for some years now for people who aren't old PC gamers since the early 2000s..
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,088
Pakistan
I don't think Minecraft Dungeons did all that great on Steam.
Yep it didn't. But then again the actual minecraft is a whole different beast as compared to minecraft dungeons...an isometric linear game?
Unfortunately its very bad for a lot of people. If you're an era regular you'll see frequent trouble shooting threads regarding WIndows Store or Gamepass PC. I also don't have good experiences with the xbox ecosystem on PC.
 

Stowaway Silfer

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
32,819
I dream bigger. I hope Nintendo takes notice. I concede that I'm living in Fantasyland.
I am in fantasy land with you! Like with Sony, each successful PC release of a console-manufacturer's game increases the chances of more ending up on PC. Admittedly those chances with Nintendo are extremely, extremely tiny for various reasons and will tick up very slowly but they go up nonetheless lol.

It's not that long ago that the idea of Sony releasing God of War and Uncharted on PC would've been laughable and here we are.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,088
Pakistan
Sony will release their games on PC day one by the end of the generation.
Its possible but unlikely IMO.. but yeah definitely possible since its the 'end of the generation' with the way they're going with it.
My point is if Sony can accomplish the balance of consistently generating a significant amount of revenue from PC ports of their first-party games while maintaining them being Playstation launch exclusives then they will likely figure that out than for them to decide to launch them on PC Day One.

I don't see Sony deciding on PC day one releases until something dramatic has occurred in the marketplace where they feel they need to or it makes sense to their business model.
I mean if hypothetically day one PC versions don't hurt console PS sales by much why wouldn't sony do day 1 PC versions? Majority play on either console or PC and there is little overlap in comparison to PC or console only owners.. They only care about how much cash they're making so if they don't lose that many sales from PC versions releasing in close proximity with their console versions they will definitely do day 1.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,675
USA USA USA
Not making any judgement of anybody's personal financial situation, but these conversations always seem to center on the cost aspect, and people seem to just not be able to understand that for some of us the cost aspect is not the number one factor in where and how we choose to buy our games. If the money is a concern, then GP is absolutely a great option, but some people value other things than just the raw cost of the games.
Understanding anyone else's point of view is far beyond a lot of people sadly.
Sorry this is bullshit, all of my PC friends are running it without any issues for the last 6 months. There probably are people with issues, but this doesn't qualify as "unusable" and "catastrophic". Like anything on PC, some PCs do not behave, it is a bit inherent to the platform.
well shit if your friends didnt have problems guess its all made up
 

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
16,761
Wow, what a surprise that this thread turned into "why not use gamepass tho?!?!1"

Anyway, this is always nice to see. Turns out when you put good games on good (usable) platforms, they tend to do well. Wild.
 

Deleted member 93062

Account closed at user request
Banned
Mar 4, 2021
24,767
Sony will release their games on PC day one by the end of the generation.
Agreed. I think that's why they're chilling out with third party exclusives as well. Deathloop, Forspoken, FF16 is only 6 months, FF7R was able to hit PC before Xbox.

Think they're testing the waters on releasing day and date. Jim Ryan's statements about being "frustrated" that their games only sell 10-20 million because they don't have as much reach as they could have, further hint at that. I think the only way they don't go day and date by end of gen is if Jim Ryan is replaced with a more protective CEO.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,154
Indonesia
It's just weird to me cuz you could literally just play these three games for a fraction of the cost. But people just really don't want to leave the Steam bubble.

Edit: the line about the steam bubble was purely about people who never even consider it as an option, not about valid reasons like the various issues some people have experience with install/SSD issues or just purely wanting to own all your games. It was specifically inspired by people I personally know who bought Halo Infinite despite not really being able to afford it.
Despite your edit, you're still missing the point. Steam is available worldwide, Game Pass is not. It's that simple.

The ones that really need to get out of their bubble are people who still think that gaming is all about NA/EU. Accessibility and convenience are important.
 

Mass Effect

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 31, 2017
16,761
Sorry this is bullshit, all of my PC friends are running it without any issues for the last 6 months. There probably are people with issues, but this doesn't qualify as "unusable" and "catastrophic". Like anything on PC, some PCs do not behave, it is a bit inherent to the platform.

None of my friends nor I have Joycon stick drift either. So I guess it's fake news.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,949
As long as Sony and Nintendo are in the console selling business, their big exclusives will stay that way at launch. I can make any avatar bet it will not happen at the end of this gen.

I'm sure a year ago you would've made an avatar bet that Sony wouldn't bring their big PlayStation franchises to PC as well.

PC day and date is inevitable. Especially at the rate they're cranking out ports.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,275
But you might be right that the majority of PlayStation users won't give up their console.

I think they're right. The reality is that anyone at this point is that a lot of PC-only people will never buy a console. We're up to the PS5 now, if Sony hasn't gotten them to buy in, they won't. And PC gamers with rigs to play things like the new GoW who also own PS5s aren't that many consumers. So who do you really lose if you launch these games on PC? If you sell a million Steam copies, surely your revenue is now higher than it would be on the thousands or so PS owners who might sell their console.
 

litebrite

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,832
I mean if hypothetically day one PC versions don't hurt console PS sales by much why wouldn't sony do day 1 PC versions? Majority play on either console or PC and there is little overlap in comparison to PC or console only owners.. They only care about how much cash they're making so if they don't lose that many sales from PC versions releasing in close proximity with their console versions they will definitely do day 1.
Because Sony's traditional method has been incredibly successful.

It's apparent they are willing to open it up but unfortunately, it will likely be slow and step by step.
 
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cowbanana

Member
Feb 2, 2018
13,670
a Socialist Utopia
Sony must be taking note. I live in a country with an abundance of PC players (PC is incredibly popular here) and zero PS5s for sale (Playstation is also very popular here). Imagine the revenue they're missing out on when they can't sell their shiny new games because of hardware shortages.
 

etrain911

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,807
I'm glad that they've started pushing towards Steam. I really hope they move gamepass over there too so I don't need to have a fragmented library and don't have to use the Xbox app.
 

MrBob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,668
Microsoft own data already shown that Gamepass isn't affecting game sales. In fact they are enhancing them. I'm guessing many people do the same thing as me with Gamepass on PC? Try the game out on Gamepass PC. If you like it and want it long term, buy it on Steam. I think a lot of people end up doing this.

I played Age of Empires IV on Gamepass, liked it. Decided I want to keep the game long term. So I bought Steam key from Green Man Gaming at 20% off.

I will buy Halo Infinite and Forza 5 when they go on sale on Steam. Steam Deck is coming. Want an easy way to play these games on it, without needing to install Windows.

Not to mention regionality. Gamepass PC is not everywhere. Steam is practically everywhere.

You know there is a not small amount of pc gamers who refuse to use the epic store because it's absolutely awful for features and other reasons compared to steam right?

A literal store where they're giving away free games every 2 weeks and 1 a day for 2 weeks at Xmas, as well as allowing people to outright take $10/£10 off any game over $15/£15 right now even those on sale and there are still people who wont do it because they don't feel epic and/or their store deserves their business while the store is in it's current state.

People are actually chosing to pay $10/£10 more per game in the steam sale right now than they could get it in the epic store at the same sale price and an extra $10/£10 off. There may in fact be a case where plenty of people don't care about the savings gamepass can offer, and that could be for any number of reasons. One reason could be that if the gamepass app is broken, then they may not want to support gamepass until it's fixed so microsoft gets the message.

Now that's one example of a reason but there are any number of reasons people decide everyday to pay more just to avoid certain things. I said it earlier but people decide to avoid amazon or other stores for any reason they may want to even if it means they pay more for a product. People buy digital games on consoles at launch despite the fact that they can get disk copies cheaper in a lot of places purely because they like the ease of digital. Not everything comes down to the price and no matter how much you value gamepass for its price, others may not care.

Discount difference really depends on the game. The Epic discount is bigger for some games, and not really bigger, or nonexistent, for other games. Because with Steam you can buy Steam keys off of third party sites. These third party sites offer lower prices than what you can buy the game on Steam itself.

For example, Biomutant is $19.99 plus tax on Epic Store right now. I can get a Steam key for about $23 from Green Man Gaming (don't pay tax here). Or Horizon Zero dawn is $14.99 plus tax on Epic, where I can get a Steam key for $19.95 from Green Man Gaming or Fanatical. It is still more, but really only a couple dollars. Heck, Square is offering an additional 20% off on a bunch of Steam keys right now at Green Man Gaming. In the $15-20 range is where the Epic coupon shines.

It is why I have always thought of Steam as more of a platform, than just a store. I use Steam as my main platform, but I'm actually a terrible Steam store customer. Because I would guess about 70% of my Steam purchases come from buying Steam keys from third party stores like Green Man Gaming, Humble Store, Fanatical, etc.
 
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Nov 2, 2017
2,275
Not MS revenue ofc, but Xbox revenue.
Revenue is also a terrible thing to use for arguing "shouldn't make this bigger than it is". For all we know MS games on Steam are the most profitable thing they have right now on the Xbox division. From a ROI perspective it probably is.

I mean they can sell 5 million XSX consoles and get 2.5 billion in revenue. How much money has that made MS? Potentially zero and at worst it has cost them money. Of course it's more complicated than that but my point is that revenue itself is meaningless. That 5% could be more lucrative than the other 95%.