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Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,922
BTW, George W. Bush is absolutely going to be known in the history books as a war criminal. Aside from a few centrists who have tried to rehabilitate his image, he is despised by most Democrats, and by his own party even more so. He was a worse president than Donald Trump has been so far.
I have no interest in defending GWB. But the bolded is false.

He had a 61% approval rating as of last year, largely driven from his approval rating with Democrats jumping from 11% to 54%.

www.cnn.com

George W. Bush's favorable rating has pulled a complete 180

George W. Bush has turned his unpopularity upside down
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
The line is now set at May 13, 2023.

Reason for moving the line:
- Three bets on the over
- The hilariously stupid implication that pointing out the ridiculousness of our hyperbolically negative opinion on Michelle Obama is "taking the deaths of 1million Iraqis as a joke." That stretch of the imagination alone is worth at least 6 months to the over. Michelle Obama was first lady and her Husband oversaw a CIA drone program and was president during two wars, but that does not make her guilty of "deaths of a million people," despite that her and her husband did likely have sex at least once.
- Mouth-agape, saliva-dripping retort of "lol triggered snowflakes" has adjusted the over by 9 hours.
Actually, now that I think about it the odds of AOC and Ted Cruz having lunch together and being seen is more likely in the next few years, but I'm still committed to the over.

I'm real glad the mockery of leftist is so important to you that you will make "gotchas" for daring to...*checks notes*...wanting Michelle to not say "Our values are the same" with a War Criminal.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,371
Yea, I do considering it's been the recent view of a mod that Trump hasn't been a disaster for the world and was literally spouting "Donald the Dove" propaganda, which in the recent context of people calling Obama a fucking war criminal is starting to look extremely suspect.

I'm actually pretty interested on where this whole "Obama is a war criminal" thing started. Cause like six months ago it was pretty much fringe and would have been laughed out of a thread, now it's like anyone who wants to be seen needs to say it.

I thought that US presidents being guilty of/complicit in war crimes, especially since the Iraq war, is a pretty uncontroversial stance tbh. Obama may have been better domestically than Bush, but that doesn't really change what happened abroad.
 

Moff

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,786
I already said this in the Degeneres thread and it's the same here.
The sad truth is people don't care about brown people. Killing and torturing them in the hundreds of thousands is not seen as a bad thing, they are not even seen as persons. They are - at best - seen as expected collateral damage in the pursuit for oil. That is the sad truth.
That's why W. Bush is getting away with it and why Degeneres and Obama are getting away with being friends with him. They would not get away with being friends with other terrible people and people would not bother to looks for excuses for them.
 

Madison

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,388
Lima, Peru
You guys really can't stand when someone who you admire says some dumb shit huh
this is what happens when you become so attached to a political party that any harsh criticism of it makes you go "But if they bad then am I bad?" and they instantly freak out and lash out before actually taking it with nuance. And to be somewhat fair to libs, ive seen tankies react in similar ways before.

Albatross is probably one of the better posters on this website, the only one trying to be witty and failing is you
this says so much about you
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
Lemme know when AOC starts saying her and W share the same values and I'll call her out on that shit too.

You guys really can't stand when someone who you admire says some dumb shit huh

This is supposed to be the easiest slam dunk "cancellation" (no one's asking for this) lol

"oh you like Dubya? Well fuck you too!"

instead

"well there's a lot of nuance to be made..... what about AFRICA...... FIRST BLACK LADY...."
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
Now we're on to the lowkey identity politics complaints. Where have we heard this before? Dreams-Visions wasn't so far off the mark because these convos always veer in that direction. Don't gotta agree with the poster, but brushing it off like that is just as off putting.
I have to brush it off because in context it's nonsense.
I say this as someone who is black.(for the third time in this thread....)

I understand the line of thinking there, but come on, they literally came in to poison the well with that post.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,038
I see you are more preoccupied trying to be witty

Trying to be, probably failing for most, but that's okay -- the sheer stupidity of people trying to look really deep into Michelle Obama's heart-of-hearts on the basis of throw-away comments in People Magazine and thus deciding she's garbage-trash-eat-the-rich-boomer or whatever other bottom barrel finger twitches are masquerading as commentary drives me to sarcasm.

In earnest, no sarcasm, I like Michelle Obama. I think her husband had flaws but was, largely a good president.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
Yup, it's funny seeing a bunch of white people cancel the Black First Family. Fuck outta here. She's friends with him, what's the big deal?

I think it's even funnier seeing the black First Family being just as callous about brown lives in the Middle East as the white presidential families before them. If you're a black American and you can't take our experiences here with being dehumanized and apply them to the American policies towards people of Iraq, or Palestine, or Yemen, then you are a soulless golem.
 

Bonafide

Member
Oct 11, 2018
936
Now we're on to the lowkey identity politics complaints. Where have we heard this before? Dreams-Visions wasn't so far off the mark because these convos always veer in that direction. Don't gotta agree with the poster, but brushing it off like that is just as off putting.

nope, he's way off here. it has nothing to do with either of the obama's being black and everything to do with them normalizing not even just what GWB has done but the abuses our state cause everyday.
 

TheRuralJuror

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,504
I have to brush it off because in context it's nonsense.
I say this as someone who is black.(for the third time in this thread....)

I understand the line of thinking there, but come on, they literally came in to poison the well with that post.
I've seen your posts saying that, so please don't think I was implying otherwise. Most of us remember each other lol. Just criticizing that one bit and you are free to feel that way.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,277
I think people who can be friends with people they may not agree with (up to a point of course) are always more interesting and real people. Both share the crucible of having been in the White House for 8 years and all the shit that must have entailed.

Her being friends with Trump would be weird, her being friends with any Bush or even Melania I could understand.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
I thought that US presidents being guilty of/complicit in war crimes, especially since the Iraq war, is a pretty uncontroversial stance tbh. Obama may have been better domestically than Bush, but that doesn't really change what happened abroad.

Go to any person and say "Obama is a war criminal" and you'll get laughed at. It's extremely controversial, in fact I would say it's not "controversial", because that means it has some grounds in popular thinking and is just unpopular. I would say it's "fringe on-top of fringe" and is a by product of the ERA feedback loop of such a line of thinking becoming more prominent in day to day postings while still being uber-fringe politically.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
I have no interest in defending GWB. But the bolded is false.

He had a 61% approval rating as of last year, largely driven from his approval rating with Democrats jumping from 11% to 54%.

www.cnn.com

George W. Bush's favorable rating has pulled a complete 180

George W. Bush has turned his unpopularity upside down
Yeah this is why comments by Michelle like this are dangerous, just a willful ignorance to learn from history and criticize our country's own actions.
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
I have no interest in defending GWB. But the bolded is false.

He had a 61% approval rating as of last year, largely driven from his approval rating with Democrats jumping from 11% to 54%.

www.cnn.com

George W. Bush's favorable rating has pulled a complete 180

George W. Bush has turned his unpopularity upside down

That's a temporary "Trump is uncivil" bump based on the attempt of the media and political establishment class to rehabilitate Bush's image by comparison. Once we've moved beyond Trump that will fade.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
this is what happens when you become so attached to a political party that any harsh criticism of it makes you go "But if they bad then am I bad?" and they instantly freak out and lash out before actually taking it with nuance. And to be somewhat fair to libs, ive seen tankies react in similar ways before.


this says so much about you

Uhhh, ok? Not sure what that says but I've always enjoyed Albatross popping into threads.
 
Dec 12, 2017
4,652
I think it's even funnier seeing the black First Family being just as callous about brown lives in the Middle East as the white presidential families before them. If you're a black American and you can't take our experiences here with being dehumanized and apply them to the American policies towards people of Iraq, or Palestine, or Yemen, then you are a soulless golem.
You're right. But I can admonish what he's done, and want my black children to look up to him for what he's done domestically.
People are upset over a puff piece in People magazine at a moment when she was talking about raising a family.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
That's a temporary "Trump is uncivil" bump based on the attempt of the media and political establishment class to rehabilitate his image. Once we've moved beyond Trump that will fade.
Or it'll just continue to rise for Trump after he's gone too because people can't help themselves from whitewashing some of the worst people in American history.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,038
I'm real glad the mockery of leftist is so important to you that you will make "gotchas" for daring to...*checks notes*...wanting Michelle to not say "Our values are the same" with a War Criminal.

I don't think most people who are sharing strong negative opinions are really leftists, but just reactionaries. "Leftists" is giving them far too much credit. Leftists have an ideological base by which they can measure things that are important and unimportant, and at least find nuance before widely condemning an otherwise admirable person for ... *checks notes* a throw-away feel good segment from PEOPLE MAGAZINE.
 

Anomander

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,469
Yea, I do considering it's been the recent view of a mod that Trump hasn't been a disaster for the world and was literally spouting "Donald the Dove" propaganda, which in the recent context of people calling Obama a fucking war criminal is starting to look extremely suspect.

I'm actually pretty interested on where this whole "Obama is a war criminal" thing started. Cause like six months ago it was pretty much fringe and would have been laughed out of a thread, now it's like anyone who wants to be seen needs to say it.
Yup, you got us. We're Russian trolls.
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
Y'all calling them the first Black Family like they fucking royalty is hilarious. Please stop using their blackness as a crutch!
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
I don't think most people who are sharing strong negative opinions are really leftists, but just reactionaries. Leftists is giving them far too much credit. Leftists have an ideological base by which they can measure things that are important and unimportant, and at least find nuance before widely condemning an otherwise admirable person for ... *checks notes* a throw-away feel good segment from PEOPLE MAGAZINE.

You're one to clarify who and who isn't a leftist here, now are you?
After the shit you just pulled in the last page?

The gall to even suggest that the negative opinions being shared here are done by reactionaries.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
I don't think most people who are sharing strong negative opinions are really leftists, but just reactionaries. Leftists is giving them far too much credit. Leftists have an ideological base by which they can measure things that are important and unimportant, and at least find nuance before widely condemning an otherwise admirable person for ... *checks notes* a throw-away feel good segment from PEOPLE MAGAZINE.
If you don't see a fundamental problem with the upper class rehabilitating actual war criminals that then influences other people to think "hey Bush isn't that bad cause Michelle likes him!" then idk what to tell you
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I don't think most people who are sharing strong negative opinions are really leftists, but just reactionaries. "Leftists" is giving them far too much credit. Leftists have an ideological base by which they can measure things that are important and unimportant, and at least find nuance before widely condemning an otherwise admirable person for ... *checks notes* a throw-away feel good segment from PEOPLE MAGAZINE.

Look, I'm sorry I care more about the millions of dead Middle Eastern civilians than the friendship between two rich people.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,339
Not surprising at all. She can't pick and choose the war criminals she approves of since she's married to one. Obama is the best president many Americans have had in their lives, but my god can we do better for ourselves and the world.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,038
You're one to clarify who and who isn't a leftist here, now are you?
After the shit you just pulled in the last page?

The gall to even suggest that the negative opinions being shared here are done by reactionaries.

Oh, the gall!! Sorry, but I don't think that "Eat Michelle Obama" is so much a "negative opinion" as it is brain-death-nerve-reaction.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,371
Go to any person and say "Obama is a war criminal" and you'll get laughed at. It's extremely controversial, in fact I would say it's not "controversial", because that means it has some grounds in popular thinking and is just unpopular. I would say it's "fringe on-top of fringe" and is a by product of the ERA feedback loop of such a line of thinking becoming more prominent in day to day postings while still being uber-fringe politically.

Tbh all this tells me is that American politics largely disregards the actual impact it has on foreign countries, which I guess isn't surprising but still upsetting.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,818
I cannot believe we've somehow gotten to "Not wanting Michelle to humanize Bush is racist!". Not only that but people in here are literally whitewashing the entire thread by saying only white people are complaining.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,043
Trying to be, probably failing for most, but that's okay -- the sheer stupidity of people trying to look really deep into Michelle Obama's heart-of-hearts on the basis of throw-away comments in People Magazine and thus deciding she's garbage-trash-eat-the-rich-boomer or whatever other bottom barrel finger twitches are masquerading as commentary drives me to sarcasm.

In earnest, no sarcasm, I like Michelle Obama. I think her husband had flaws but was, largely a good president.
I think some things can't be ignored, being a war criminal is one of them, couldn't be friends with one, not because its a difference of opinion, but because its something I can't ignore, its something vile and goes against my most basic beliefs, one of them being life is valuable. Being friends with someone like that and vouching for them is only possible if your beliefs don't clash too hard with them, at least on my eyes, not to mention it normalizes that persons actions. So Michelle being able to be friends with him and go out of her way to normalize him in peoples eyes is worthy of criticism. If they don't want people discussing their relationship then don't promote it publicly
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
Tbh all this tells me is that American politics largely disregards the actual impact it has on foreign countries, which I guess isn't surprising but still upsetting.

I mean, are you from America? Obama is extremely popular. He's even more popular outside of America in most nations that aren't being run by fascists.

This is a very easy thing to look up, people view Obama overwhelming favorably, mainly because drones aren't considered to be grounds for condemning an executive officer for committing war crimes.
 

MPrice

Alt account
Banned
Oct 18, 2019
654
User banned (1 week): insensitive and dismissive commentary
Damn, Surrender Dorothy wrote a post in caps. Almost as bad aa destroying a region of the Middle East and killing a million people. Glad to see that you're reserving your ire for people who aren't civil enough, as opposed to say War Criminals and those who defend them. Glad your priorities are straight.
Bush has apologized for Iraq/Afghanistan. I'm not holding a grudge over it. If you can't forgive him then that's on you. There's things that have been done to my people that I won't forgive either so I understand, you'd never hear me say stop being mad or "get over it" like they do with slavery.

But what people won't tolerate is the angry mob coming for them when we happen to be past a grudge that you are still holding on to. If you're mad at Bush go harass him. You come for me then I firing back. Simple as that.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
"We don't disagree on humanity, we don't disagree about love and compassion"

Estimating war-related deaths poses many challenges.[1][2] Experts distinguish between population-based studies, which extrapolate from random samples of the population, and body counts, which tally reported deaths and likely significantly underestimate casualties.[3] Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to over a million (per the 2007 Opinion Research Business (ORB) survey). Other survey-based studies covering different time-spans find 461,000 total deaths (over 60% of them violent) as of June 2011 (per PLOS Medicine 2013), and 655,000 total deaths (over 90% of them violent) as of June 2006 (per the 2006 Lancet study). Body counts counted at least 110,600 violent deaths as of April 2009 (Associated Press). The Iraq Body Count project documents 183,348 - 205,908 violent civilian deaths through April 2019. All estimates of Iraq War casualties are disputed.[4][5]


OK

Rich politicians in America are wild.
 

Jexhius

Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
965
At this accelerated rate of global condemnation I'm taking bets: What's the over-under for Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to be officially declared a garbage trash boomer nazi by our community?
You know I've seen this post format trotted out a few times by various posters, yourself included. It's a strategy of using a lot of words to say very little, all in the name of defending some status quo or centrist position.

Whether you write a hundred or a thousand or ten thousand words, you can't obscure the facts that Michelle Obama is being real shitty here. Nothing you've said hides that, despite your attempt to muddy the waters.

You're not being clever here. This is a serious topic. It's not a language game.

Just like Michelle Obama didn't need to defend a war criminal, you don't need to defend Michelle Obama defending a war criminal.
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
Trying to be, probably failing for most, but that's okay -- the sheer stupidity of people trying to look really deep into Michelle Obama's heart-of-hearts on the basis of throw-away comments in People Magazine and thus deciding she's garbage-trash-eat-the-rich-boomer or whatever other bottom barrel finger twitches are masquerading as commentary drives me to sarcasm.

In earnest, no sarcasm, I like Michelle Obama. I think her husband had flaws but was, largely a good president.

maybe if it was the first time

she putting in werk
 
Oct 28, 2017
27,132
I do like how everyone is just casually ignoring the post where someone says Obama is a war criminal, but "ironically Trump is not"

People sure do love to sprout "Donald the Dove" shit unironically around here recently.


I said it! I didn't say Obama, I said every president in our lifetime. And the point i was making about Trump is considering just how terrible he his, im surprised he isnt on this list as well. I not aware of any military action he has taken over the last 3 years that would fit the criteria. I'm not calling Donald Trump a dove at all.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
This thread is a perfect example of why it's so dangerous for people like the Obamas to cozy up to Bush. Suddenly you have a good chunk of a forum that prides itself on being progressive and about human rights actually defending war crimes.

This "love thy war criminal" bullshit is lame as fuck. Weird how "love they neighbor" went out the window when it came to declaring a pointless war.
 
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