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Michel Ancel (Former Ubisoft Director) responds to management accusations.
- Thread starter Deleted member 7217
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Ok, you just spin the shit outta my question like no other lol.
Was Ancel accused of any sexual harrassment and abuse? I am increasingly frustrated by both the Kotaku article and folks here being pretty vague. I find the behavior abhorrent regardless, but the magnitude and way to respond changes a lot.
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What? I didn't say that. It was used to discuss planted news stories. In my experience, it was a term mainly used by leftists. "This is fake news" is something I read back at the old place a lot of articles pre-2016, mainly from leftist people. After Trump started using it, that flipped. I don't disagree with you? I disagree with the idea that calling something fake news means you're a Trump supporter. Cause that's intellectually lazy as hell.
Like genuinely, does anyone here read French? Can you read the article and let us know what's going on, make a proper edit to the OP, you know that kinda thing?
Cause at the moment all people have to respond to is, "He said Fake News, that bad dur dur". And like I'm totally on the side of criticizing poor decisions but the lazy commentary is so annoying. Maybe we could dig into his work practices and actually discuss what makes them toxic? lol nah he said fake news
"I come to you today to announce that I am throwing off my worldly endeavors and will withdraw into nature with my forest companions. I cannot ignore the demands of my heart and soul any longer."
"Also those fuckers are lyin' about me."
"Also those fuckers are lyin' about me."
Anything sexual?
I don't think there's anything like that against Michel Ancel (or I missed something).
The allegations at Ubisoft go way deeper than just sexual misconducts though.
Michel Ancel is basically accused of being a very lousy boss, nearly criminally so.
It's not confusing if the OP is Ancel!
[Libération] Exposé on Michel Ancel’s brutal and demoralizing management style at Ubisoft (depression, burnout, and more)
Cario & Chapuis are back with a bunch of articles about the development of BGE2, including an interview with Ancel showing a distinct lack of empathy from the creator of Rayman. https://next.liberation.fr/images/2020/09/25/jeu-video-les-coulisses-effarantes-d-un-blockbuster-geant_1800522...
www.resetera.com
I mean, yes, absolutely
But what the poster meant is that in his own head, Ancel isn't the bad guy.
Bad leaders are practically never aware of how bad they are.
Ah, I see.
Doesn't mean they don't deserve to be held accountable for their actions, though.
The term fake news existed before Trump, so I can't hold that against him. But have people from his teams backed him in large numbers? Because that's what it's going to take to sway my opinion.
Theres a translation in the other thread thats worth a read. To be clear, no, he is not accused of any sexual misconduct, which is good. But, it does sound like he was a reallly bad/toxic manager and the game (and the team) sufferred greatly as a result, which is still pretty damn bad. There are some parts of the article that seem questionable (seems to imply that all the gameplay was bullshit, but they have provided updates and live demos), but I believe there were many, many complaints about the guy from across the team.
Thanks I didn't realize there were two threads about it, and I got pretty disoriented. It sounds like some horrible behavior.[Libération] Exposé on Michel Ancel’s brutal and demoralizing management style at Ubisoft (depression, burnout, and more)
Cario & Chapuis are back with a bunch of articles about the development of BGE2, including an interview with Ancel showing a distinct lack of empathy from the creator of Rayman. https://next.liberation.fr/images/2020/09/25/jeu-video-les-coulisses-effarantes-d-un-blockbuster-geant_1800522...
I do think the article attempts to draw parallels between Ancels behavior and the earlier oustings at Ubisoft, and it doesn't provide any justification for that. I personally find that upsetting as I do not think that a toxic work environment is of the same importance as sexual harrassment and assualt. I do find that the article drawing parallels between the two situations is problematic at best.
I understand, I just read through it thanks. Yeah it seems like some pretty bad stuff, I would agree.
I think I responded the way I did because I found the vagueness pretty upsetting. I think it's helpful when you come out and say "This person assaulted people", and find it upsetting when that's just implied. I ain't trying to defend no one, but it really rubbed me the wrong way. Like these accusations should stand on their own, they shouldn't need analogizing with a different one. Idk.
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I mean the parallels are that in both case upper management was aware and did jack to curtail the issue and even encouraging the bad behavior in some case.
If Ubisoft management was willing to let sexual misconduct fly, it seems rather normal for them to be ok with other toxic behavior.
In that light it seems suspicious to not draw parallels between the 2 types.
I'm gonna try breaking this down, just for my own sake:
You're accused of abuse. Fuck the game, what about the people who worked for it? Their well-being? Where's the acknowledgement of that?
Am I missing something or am I just too emotional?
Horrific start. Immediately, I take everything said with skepticism, because I know who uses this phrase and how it's being used.
You, sir, left in the middle of all this mess. If you're a high ranking creator that happens to be under investigation and you decide to leave, that's not on the article publisher, that's on you.
The largest team of individuals I managed was 25. You know what? I'm still responsible for anything that happens underneath me. That's how leadership works. You get credit for the flaws and the team gets credit for the successes. You're accused of abuse. You, specifically, not them. Why would they speak to them when the people were specifically complaining about you?
Let's buy his fucking theory. Your managers suck then. If you, the lead, are directly making demands and they aren't following them, they need to be coached. Period. I'm still not seeing you saying how you're not an abusive asshole, yet.
Where's the part that excuses the abuse of your employees?
This, right here, is bull shit. The primary thread in the article, at least what I took from it in recent content that's been published about the greater company, is that Ancel is part of a greater issue of abuse throughout Ubisoft. That's the point. You, Ancel, appear to be an abusive asshole and didn't once say the phrase "I'm sorry for behavior that may have made my team feel uncomfortable." No accountability. No reasonability.
You're accused of abuse. Fuck the game, what about the people who worked for it? Their well-being? Where's the acknowledgement of that?
Am I missing something or am I just too emotional?
They absolutely do, when your job is organizing you don't get to say "i didn't know"
But hey, Yves apparently believes he does, so evidently the culture at Ubi is like that.
Yeah, a damn shame too, since I like many of the non annual Ubi games. But they're not getting another nickel from me
Anybody that uses the term "fake news" NOWADAYS, especially as a singular phrase gets the side-eye. A lot of people are aware of how it was used in the past, but nowadays I'd hope those people were smart enough to rephrase it in their everyday talk and SURE AS FUCK when they are writing/typing something (and you are given ample amount of time to THINK before you put something out there).
I don't like drawing parallels because while abuse and toxic management perpetuate themselves similarly, businesses are often able to justify short-term toxicity for long-term capital gain. I don't agree with this decision but it is a common one. For me analogizing them means businesses would be willing to excuse assault and harrassment as just another example of toxic behavior neccessary to "get shit done" or whatever.
Differentiating them as distinct issues allows us to address assault and harassment without addressing every single toxic manager because even though all harassers are toxic, I don't think eliminating toxic management is anywhere near as feasible.
I don't see these things the same way. This seems to be one of those optics arguments where it's wrong to use the phrase because of its common connotations. I agree wholeheartedly for other things, but I don't think it works in this case. And I don't understand why you're so antagonistic about it? Like if someone said fake news (sarcastically or not) in a room I was in, I wouldn't think they need to "THINK because THEY"RE SURE AS FUCK they can be smart enough" or whatever. Like just cause Trump used it doesn't mean the phrase is poisoned or something. Like what does that even mean, they get the side eye? Like do you genuinely give them a dirty look or something?
Like I disagree with Ancel too. I just think "Oh he's using the Trump words, naughty naughty" looks really silly.
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I mean I get your point and your view but it's absolutely not shared by Ubisoft and the corporate world at large.
Businesses WILL absolutely justify short-term toxicity and will handle sexual harrassment that way too.
Especially in France as well.
You should be under no illusion that Ubisoft would treat both situation differently and they have shown that they are willing to treat them similarly even.
They probably shouldn't be conflated but considering the management we're talking about, they don't bat an eye doing this and will absolutely try to use plausible deniability in their favor.
As soon as he announced he was going to be with nature and work with animals I thought about how quiet they have been with BG&E2 this year and it just struck me how this guy has 2 large games that have been in development for 5+ years (and especially in light how many times different BG&E has "leaked" before the 2015 announcement) I couldn't help but think that something like this was coming - I did not expect the depth of the problems though
You are aware that "the earlier oustings at Ubisoft" included toxic management, screwing up of employees and partners along the sexual harassment and assault, plus that article is a follow up from the same newspaper that broke the news of sexual harassment and assault in the first place right
I disagree. I think corporation are extraordinarily willing to make action and make large changes on these issues. There are a lot of people, both on the board and in high ranking executive positions, who share your opinion and sentiment, but wish to enact it while making as much money as quickly as possible. This means the way we talk about these topics is increasingly important, as companies look to appeal to the public by answering these questions, they will try to do so in the most quick, easy, efficent, and lazy way possible. Holding them accountable on those aspects is how we achieve meaningful change rather than empty promises and half-hearted gestures.
Yes I am aware and that is why I find it frustrating. The article could choose to mention the extent of Ancel's activities in relation to the activities of others, while drawing specific parallels and differences. Instead they just draw a single line and "hope" their readers do the hard work. That was entirely the point of my post. This is the paper who wrote the article on sexual harrassment. They should easily be able to distinguish the differences and elaborate upon them in full. But I do feel that the article works to conflate toxic management with sexual harassment in a way that I find unhelpful.
Corporations do not give a fuck about the wellbeing of their employees.
They literally don't, we have (a long and bloody) history to back that up too.
It's the number 1 reason we have laws restricting behaviors of employers and having them police out toxic behavior.
All these laws and stuff about toxic behavior and harrassment are there because at some point someone sent his/her company to court over an untenable situation and lawmakers took notes.
It's the very fabric of worker laws, they are made after the fact to protect employees.
It's kinda like why OSHA exists in the US, if there was worker pushbacks there would be no protection for them at all.
If they could get away with it companies would absolutely want to use the cheapest possible labor at the worst possible cost for anyone but themselves.
What? I ain't saying anything different about the quality of companies. Like please, read what I'm saying. I'm probably about as anti-corporate as you. Bringing up the bloody history of worker's rights is accurate but the sentiments of the people in charge have changed.
It's not like corporations run themselves. They're run by people. People with really nice sentiment and the urge to do good and change the world. Companies do change, their worker practices change, and they change as a result of both law and culture. People inside the company will often push for changes that improve their employee's wellbeing, that improve work practices, or that improve work life but they are often solely motivated by profit. Improving your employees lives improves profit after all. Profit motive is the big difference between inside the company and out.
Like if you want a thinker real quick. There are leftists in those meeting rooms. There are leftists everywhere in that company otherwise nothing would have happened. There are also conservatives, and there are also centrists. And every one of them is being pulled by the profit motive. Together, being pulled by the profit, they do evil, but the individuals inside the company can still enact good things because (and excuse the tribalism), they can be "one of the good ones". Events like these give leftist individuals in the company the opportunity to make change because they need a solution for a PR problem. The profit motive is PR, so they have latitude to accomplish more change.
So the idea is you show those leftists the ways you want change to happen because by default they will tend towards the most profitable direction or the thing that makes the least amount of waves, when you can influence their direction to be increasingly more nuanced and precise by acting the same way with your criticism.
I'm not sure why this is news to be honest. Assuming the allegations are true, it sounds like the guy was demanding and a bit of diva. That happens a lot - especially when people get elevated to some type of special status. I'm sure it sucked for the people working under him, but I don't want to live in a society where every person who's a bit of a dick and sucks at their job gets called out publicly.
OP
OP
How is it confusing? I linked the post and copy/pasted the thing and put quotation marks on it to indicate it's a quote.
I kind of agree i would like to think he is not like that but that phrase is definitely low key admitting somethings up.
Just a tip: if you begin your statement like Trump would do nobody is going to believe your ass.
He was a beneficiary of an incredibly toxic environment and he himself allegedly engaged in incredibly toxic and abusive management. He was also regarded by fans as a French equivalent to Shigeru Miyamoto for his work. He's as big a creative name as Ubisoft could possibly have.
He also dipped out of Ubisoft just recently in a surprise career shift to animal conservation, which was very likely motivated by investigations into his own behavior.
It's hard to read and we have tools for this. Do you not see the
[QUOTE] popping up each time you write a reply?Jam the text you want to quote in-between
[QUOTE] and [/QUOTE].The following post
Code:
[QUOTE]
This is a quote. I'm quoting
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It has additional options for giving a name and linking specific posts and members as well. Taking care to craft a readable and approachable topic post is one of the main jobs of the OP. It really does change the mood of a thread, no joke.
Actually. When you are in a level of high regard in a company like he was. Yes. He should be called out publically. This isn't like some random jackass on a project, especially when he had a bullshit ass sudden retirement. It stinks to high heaven when it's something like that. He STILL got to leave with some dignity and the people there suffered a lot in his tenure thats bullshit.
I mean it was very impressive and it's not like he's claiming that he developed/programmed it
I especially like the part where he just tries to put it all off on his subordinates.
"How can I even be toxic to people I don't even deal with people look at all these other people that I make deal with people on my behalf it must be their fault exclusively fake news"
This guy's toxic attitude is flashing in neon throughout his fucking post. I can only imagine the hell it must be to work for him.
"How can I even be toxic to people I don't even deal with people look at all these other people that I make deal with people on my behalf it must be their fault exclusively fake news"
This guy's toxic attitude is flashing in neon throughout his fucking post. I can only imagine the hell it must be to work for him.
I was looking for this gif. My man!
Yep if these things worked. He would've been dealt with a long time ago and/or his behavior corrected
I don't think anyone wants this. Ideally, we'd live in a society where every person who is a bit of a dick and sucks at their job can be reported through internal channels and be dealt with appropriately.
The public callout happens because the internal mechanisms for dealing with this are broken.
I'm shocked at how hard it was to find but I'm also on my phone. R.I.P Kanan
Definitely suspected something like this when he suddenly retired out of the blue right after all the other Ubisoft stuff came out.
The framing is, and I don't say this lightly, cringe as fuck but this bit is just gross
Come the fuck on Ancel.
