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if we are at that point then there isn't really a fix unless sony buy's out those 3rd party's or starts creating their own ips that appeal to japan.
Maybe someone else answered this. This is my take.
Think of Mario Party mashing 1, 2, 3, 4, DS, and 3DS, all together riding trains, and another game, Monopoly, and mash those two together.
Okay, it seems that basically PS5 will have a rough year on Japan until the next big game from the "Big Four", aka Capcom, Square-Enix, Bandai-Namco and Sega.
What surprises me is how, and why Sony decided to let Japan as a low-priority, not only this generation, but also the past generation with the PS4. Stock is always a factor, obviously, but I don't know... Every news, analysis and such paints the JPN market "Important to Sony", but "not important enough to support it properly", which seems to be a mistake.
I mean, it's easy to consider the PS5 a "failure" if we consider how sucessful the Switch is in Japan. But, not even on the Wii U days, I saw a company so disinterested on their own product that they barely released.
What surprises me is how, and why Sony decided to let Japan as a low-priority, not only this generation, but also the past generation with the PS4. Stock is always a factor, obviously, but I don't know... Every news, analysis and such paints the JPN market "Important to Sony", but "not important enough to support it properly", which seems to be a mistake.
I mean, it's easy to consider the PS5 a "failure" if we consider how sucessful the Switch is in Japan. But, not even on the Wii U days, I saw a company so disinterested on their own product that they barely released.
I said it before, the ony important thing for Sony from Japan are the big games that differentiate the console from the Xbox, that's it.
Correct, they are paying to get exclusive it in some of them.
For better or worse, i doubt they will make any move to please the Japan market and acordly to Toyama( i think it is name), i think Japan Studio is working on a big AAA title as well, so if there is any hope, is coming from them but is not enough to carry the console.
The only way Sony will start focusing there is, IF and that's a huge IF, Nintendo can start getting those games day and date, and sell similarly.
OP
OP
Wii U had 3DS to back it up despite never recovering in the end and helped Nintendo to maintain market share. PS3 had PS2 and PSP, PS4 had PS3 and PSV. Do you know what PS5 has? Nothing, PS4 is almost dead and is the only system PS5 can aim to fish audience.
PS5 launch is unknown waters for Sony and the transition from one system to the other won't be the same as previous ones.
Well these were Key Titles for PS4 in Asia this gen (If anyone knows what regions are counted let me know i think its JP + SEA)
Lets see how important role they will play in this gen
Data Below till 2019 (only) (credits El Manco) Source - PS
More than 4 million
Monster Hunter World (Capcom)
More than 2 million
Minecraft (Microsoft)
More than 1 million
Dragon Quest Heroes (Square-Enix)
Dragon Quest XI (Square-Enix)
Final Fantasy XV (Square-Enix)
God of War [2018] (SIE)
Grand Theft Auto V (Rockstar Games)
Kingdom Hearts 3 (Square-Enix)
Marvel Spiderman (SIE)
Metal Gear Solid Phantom Pain (Konami)
NieR Automata (Square-Enix)
Persona 5 (Sega)
Red Dead Redemption 2 (Rockstar Games)
The Last of Us Remastered (SCE)
More than 500,000 units
Ace Combat 7 Skies Unknown (Bandai Namco)
Battlefield 1 (Electronic Arts)
Bloodborne (SCE)
Call of Duty Black Ops III (Activision)
Call of Duty Black Ops IIII (Activision)
Call of Duty Infinite Warfare (Activision)
Call of Duty WWII ( Activision)
Dark Souls III (From Software)
Devil May Cry V (Capcom)
Dragon Quest Builders (Square-Enix)
Dragon Quest Heroes II (Square-Enix)
FIFA 17 (Electronic Arts)
FIFA 18 (Electronic Arts)
FIFA 19 (Electronic Arts )
FIFA 20 (Electronic Arts)
God Eater 2 Rage Burst (Bandai Namco Entertainment)
Gran Turismo Sport (SIE)
Horizon Zero Dawn (SIE)
Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu 2016 (Konami)
Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu 2018 (Konami)
Monster Hunter World Iceborne (Capcom)
Nioh (Koei Tecmo)
One Piece Pirate Warriors 3 (Bandai Namco Entertainment)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2018 (Konami)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2019 (Konami)
Rainbow Six Siege (Ubisoft)
Resident Evil 2 Remake (Capcom)
Resident Evil 7 (Capcom)
Sekiro Shadow Die Twice (From Software)
Super Robot Wars V (Bandai Namco Entertainment)
Sword Art Online Lost Song (Bandai Namco Entertainment)
The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt (CD Projekt RED)
Uncharted 4 A Thief's End (SIE)
Uncharted The Nathan Drake Collection (SIE)
Yakuza 0 (Sega)
Yakuza 6 The Song of Life (Sega)
Lets see how important role they will play in this gen
Data Below till 2019 (only) (credits El Manco) Source - PS
More than 4 million
Monster Hunter World (Capcom)
More than 2 million
Minecraft (Microsoft)
More than 1 million
Dragon Quest Heroes (Square-Enix)
Dragon Quest XI (Square-Enix)
Final Fantasy XV (Square-Enix)
God of War [2018] (SIE)
Grand Theft Auto V (Rockstar Games)
Kingdom Hearts 3 (Square-Enix)
Marvel Spiderman (SIE)
Metal Gear Solid Phantom Pain (Konami)
NieR Automata (Square-Enix)
Persona 5 (Sega)
Red Dead Redemption 2 (Rockstar Games)
The Last of Us Remastered (SCE)
More than 500,000 units
Ace Combat 7 Skies Unknown (Bandai Namco)
Battlefield 1 (Electronic Arts)
Bloodborne (SCE)
Call of Duty Black Ops III (Activision)
Call of Duty Black Ops IIII (Activision)
Call of Duty Infinite Warfare (Activision)
Call of Duty WWII ( Activision)
Dark Souls III (From Software)
Devil May Cry V (Capcom)
Dragon Quest Builders (Square-Enix)
Dragon Quest Heroes II (Square-Enix)
FIFA 17 (Electronic Arts)
FIFA 18 (Electronic Arts)
FIFA 19 (Electronic Arts )
FIFA 20 (Electronic Arts)
God Eater 2 Rage Burst (Bandai Namco Entertainment)
Gran Turismo Sport (SIE)
Horizon Zero Dawn (SIE)
Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu 2016 (Konami)
Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu 2018 (Konami)
Monster Hunter World Iceborne (Capcom)
Nioh (Koei Tecmo)
One Piece Pirate Warriors 3 (Bandai Namco Entertainment)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2018 (Konami)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2019 (Konami)
Rainbow Six Siege (Ubisoft)
Resident Evil 2 Remake (Capcom)
Resident Evil 7 (Capcom)
Sekiro Shadow Die Twice (From Software)
Super Robot Wars V (Bandai Namco Entertainment)
Sword Art Online Lost Song (Bandai Namco Entertainment)
The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt (CD Projekt RED)
Uncharted 4 A Thief's End (SIE)
Uncharted The Nathan Drake Collection (SIE)
Yakuza 0 (Sega)
Yakuza 6 The Song of Life (Sega)
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Sony's decline in Japan has nothing to do with portables being popular. It's because Sony offers a triple A box without appealing triple A games in Japan. It's like trying to sell an electric car to a market where there is a huge electricity supply problem. You can have the best car in the world but it won't help sell you cars in that market.
Even if that happens, Sony is not gona shift their studios efforts to try to please the Japan Market, so either they buy studios there or they will just let it happen.
OP
OP
PS4 has at least one more year of respectable software sales with the view for where market is leading being clear since at least 2019. If Kondo is in position to operate Falcom focusing only on PlayStation ignoring all trends in Japan I can't blame anyone else for someone with access to a much larger potential audience being unable to get in times because he can't find alternatives.
It's not Sony's fault or Japan's fault or bad luck to greenlight and release a Vita game in 2020 when even a random clueless poster here would say this is financial suicide.
i haven't heard of that did they actually release a vita game in 2020?
The japanese videogame market is there for every hardware maker, that Sony is declining on its own (or failing to improve) is irrelevant and that argument is ridiculous.
Considering your bad faith arguments I don't think there's any point discussing though, have fun warring on your own
Nothing in your post suggests you were talking about only Sony's hardware and software declining-
Your post was discussing a "market" not one platform holders' sales in a market.
I think it's wrong to frame it was "why did Sony decide to de-prioritize Japan" when the decline we've seen in Japan is the result of enormous success everywhere else in the globe. They were crushing it and decided to double down and now it'd require a lot of work and some risks to regain market share.
falcom is a rare japanese-focused playstation-only company. i'm talking about the ones that transitioned to ps4+nsw where ps5+nsw isn't gonna cut it.
It's not like Sony hasn't been making games for the PS3/4/5 PSP/PSV in Japan, it's that they haven't been good at it in a decade and a half. No new franchises that really took off or even lasted past the middle of the PS4. Perennial hits like Everybody's Golf are gone. All of the new franchises they tried out on the PSV died there.
Obviously we are not talking about Final Fantasy because that will be on XBox too.
The point is these games could migrate to Nintendo. If Nintendo continues to be succesful in the west there is no reason to stay with Sony (exclusively).
Nintendo has multiple advantages:
1) Strong sales in Japan but also good sales in the west
2) Less AAA releases. AA games from Japan stand out more.
3) Visuals and cinematics are not as important as on Playsation systems.
4) Coverage from Nintendo (Directs)
5) Nintendo has exclusive IP like Xenoblade and Fire Emblem to kickstart an userbase.
6) Success stories like "Momotaro Dentetsu".
You see it in this thread. We are talking about the next Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest. There is already competition between Sony and Nintendo. Nintendo could take advantage of Sony's poor performance.
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Maybe it could be due to them increasing game's speed by ~20-30%?
At least, this is what's generated my hype the most.
Rumpestump
don't come in to a sales thread and ignore every point that doesn't go to you argument's advantage. there is evidence that home consoles are still popular, there is evidence that non-Nintendo companies are doing well (see momotaro), and there is evidence that the overall market has grown, why do you still insist that it has declined the only thing that has declined is PlayStation and it's fanboy developers, almost everything else has improved, the Japanese indie scent is finally starting up, console sales to rival the DS and much more have happened in the past year that showcase the growth of the industry and that's not even mentioning the fact the the best selling game of all time in japan came out 9 months ago.
also i would still like to ask you, why do you think Nintendo's games bare almost no trademarks of "Japanese games" i still have no idea where you got that from, even if it doesn't relate to sales i really want to hear the reasoning behind that.
don't come in to a sales thread and ignore every point that doesn't go to you argument's advantage. there is evidence that home consoles are still popular, there is evidence that non-Nintendo companies are doing well (see momotaro), and there is evidence that the overall market has grown, why do you still insist that it has declined the only thing that has declined is PlayStation and it's fanboy developers, almost everything else has improved, the Japanese indie scent is finally starting up, console sales to rival the DS and much more have happened in the past year that showcase the growth of the industry and that's not even mentioning the fact the the best selling game of all time in japan came out 9 months ago.
also i would still like to ask you, why do you think Nintendo's games bare almost no trademarks of "Japanese games" i still have no idea where you got that from, even if it doesn't relate to sales i really want to hear the reasoning behind that.
OP
OP
I'm talking for the same, if PS5+NSW isn't gonna cut it you had all time to try to find alternatives and not continue to walk with closed eyes waiting for a miracle that somehow your sales will remain the same or not drop a lot.
in that case it would probably mean downsizing and scaling back software production. if you can, license out characters to bigger companies, or try and get a sliver of the mobile pie since pc isn't really a thing to lean on - at least as a replacement. if you can, team up with a publisher in the west or china to sell your ip abroad.
Are PS5 numbers going to be this bad for a while because of stock or lack of software to draw people to it? Seems lower than the lowest projections.
OP
OP
If scaling back software production means not releasing 10 games per year nobody cares about but focusing the resources on less IPs that have bigger sales potential I agree.
Labyrinth of Galleria wad this year's big release of NIS in Japan and somehow they managed to kill it.
You're right, I forgot about that but subconsciously I think that was definitely part of it. The trailer looked incredible.
I initially thought Rumpestump post was for PS and not the market but it can be interpreted both ways on what he/she meant.
Rumpestump Your follow up post is rude which was not needed
Rumpestump Your follow up post is rude which was not needed
This is going to be so fun to watch for the next year.
wii u:
week 1 - 308,570
week 2 - 130,653
week 3 - 122,356
week 4 - 76,760
week 5 - 70,662
ps5:
week 1 - 118,085
week 2 - 42,891
week 3 - 40,459
week 4 - 11,893
week 5 - 11,056
It sort of works if you think of their western focus being their big, single player, third person action games and their Japanese focus being one where they pick up a bunch of timed/console exclusives and marketing deals from the AAA third party developers. Now those deals are made primarily as selling points for the markets where they actually compete with PC and XBOX but also just so happen to aid them in Japan as well.
nis had a lot of direction changes from 2011. first, they lost the og disgaea team, who went to make trillion: god of destruction for idea factory (which also killed the idea of collaboration between the two companies then and forever because this was a top ten anime betrayal). at the time the idea was that there needed to be a new major ip. but they also played around with the witch and the hundred knights team so much that those guys left too (this was that 2011-2012 'exodus'). the game was retooled as the witch and the hundred knight with one of the few 00s guys left still in charge. he went on to make labyrinth of refrain afterwards.
nis stuck to this 'gotta make a new major ip' strategy through witch and the hundred knight, and it included the likes of the guided fate pardox (hiring popular artist noizi ito), shin hayarigami - which had been a decently popular franchise in the 00s, and criminal girls. this was also the time when nis was specifically into the idea of games like criminal girls (such as great edo blacksmith). with the exodus and their franchise plans crashing and burning, they started to seek new talent internally. this is where the firefly diary, yomawari, and the liar princess and the blind prince all come from. these people could have been programmers, artists, and web designers, but they were given directorial control over new titles. they never built up any branding over this, somehow.
at the same time, budgets were being slashed except for disgaea, which had probably been in production since 2013 (disgaea d2 was the new team's test run). the idea here was that at least there could be one title that would break out and become a hit outside the indie stuff. and if it didn't, it would at least make its budget back. see: penny-punching princess, lapis x labyrinth, all their horror vns, and labyrinth of refrain.
labyrinth of refrain was a sleeper hit, their biggest new ip since the witch and the hundred knight, released in 2016 for ps vita, with a ps4 port in 2017 and a pc and switch port in 2018. because it was a sleeper hit, and because budgets were kept low, production was started on a sequel... on ps vita. and i think they really wanted it out in 2018, but delays kept pushing it further and further back. it became this sunk-cost fallacy of well, they put so much effort into a ps vita release that they basically had to release it. any further delay to port it to new consoles would risk reduced sales of the work they'd already completed. but... obviously at the point the game slipped from 2019 into 2020, it should have been turned into a switch game. and at the same time, a ps5 sku could have been tossed into the mix. as messy as releasing four skus simultaneously would have been, it would have been an better result than just sending it to die.
for what it's worth, i think they did the same thing to disgaea, and a similar fate awaits disgaea 6. poor management is the reason why there hasn't been a new game in the series in six years. they also don't do the crossover thing, basically ever, where it would make sense. they'll get the playstation mascots for disgaea 4, get adol and dana from ys viii into cladun sengoku, but not seek out some kind of crossover deal with the fire emblem folk at intsys/ncl. the management over there has been rudderless and flailing for a decade. it makes the 2000s seem like it was just a string of good luck.
So even without the WiiU SKU, this could very well be the best selling Pikmin in Japan (probably is with Japan). Amazing.
I think I remember from somewhere that NISA was helping to keep the company afloat. Was that the case? In general NISA has done a good job of diversifying when their own parent branch's games have been lackluster/sparse in release.
It hit 2000s era lol-random humor pretty well, and meshed with an RPG audience that was established on the ps2.
NIS as a whole had been with atlus since 1994. Their first game was released as Pieces for the super NES. They mainly made puzzle games and a couple licensed titles through the mid 90s. Niikawa pushed to make a game that would be more like the rpgs blowing up on the PlayStation and that was the first mark kingdom game. And they milked the shit out of it. They made two sequels, a cell phone port, and a couple spinoffs including a similar puzzle game like their 90s output and a mahjong game based on marl kingdom. Anytime you see one of those puzzle games, just assume it was at the behest of the owner of the company. He was the director of "Pieces" and has a soft spot for more traditional non video game games. That's just an assumption on my part though and I could be off base.
In the early 2000s, NIS was shopping around quite a lot. The first Marl game came out as Rhapsody in the US and didn't do super hot. Atlus may have skipped on the direct sequel because the ps2 was coming out and they didnt want to keep making ps1 games. That didn't stop Access Games from releasing a psx era nis puzzle game in 2002 though. But I think the reason atlus skipped the third marl game might have had something to do with how it's structured and calls back to the previous two games.
La pucelle is a spinoff of marl and maybe not taking the later two games soured the relationship with atlus or maybe they saw it as too close of a continuation to what didn't turn out to be a big hit in Rhapsody. But mastiff wound up with la pucelle and actually enacted some good ol fashioned early 2000s censorship on it. And maybe the religious imagery in that game was something atlus didn't want to touch.
Or maybe Atlus just missed out on la pucelle and grabbed Disgaea first. I think it fit their brand better anyway. That first Disgaea game kinda feels like an atlus title and they even put their own spin on it by paying for music that wasn't otherwise in the game, and the the prinnies saying "dood" turned them into nis's mascot when before it was the eryngi or possibly corner.
And the success of Disgaea boosted la pucelle, which as the game Disgaea had actually spun off from, had similar mechanics and features. Two games doing so well at the same time, it's a no brainer to start your own branch.
And funny enough, Sony doesn't really care much since they make their money in CoDland and FIFAland.
I don't think PS5 is going to decline enough from PS4 to damage those publishers putting out games that are lucky to sell 100k copies in Japan - BUT if they're not really prepared for the possibility that it does then they absolutely should have some of the blame because for the most part they've had to be dragged kicking and screaming to supporting non-PS systems.
Nintendo has been dominating Japan for around 15 years and it was obvious since at least just after the PS4 launch that conditions were going to be tough for those developers as PS4 had a slow start and Vita had already failed.
Making an attempt on Switch(like NIS) was already trying to branch out a few years later than they should have, and NIS was actually one of the first to make the attempt. It took Sony literally banning their game for Compile Heart to do an inhouse port of one of their games, and they're still continuing to do PS4 exclusives with the occasional late port on Switch.
It's easy to say that the 3DS might not have been favourable, or even that there was doubts about Nintendo's future in consoles, but at the end of the day they stayed stuck in their ways and have now largely been left behind. Switch hasn't been the silver bullet for any of these publishers because their brands have already decayed so much that it's difficult to recover.
Nintendo has been dominating Japan for around 15 years and it was obvious since at least just after the PS4 launch that conditions were going to be tough for those developers as PS4 had a slow start and Vita had already failed.
Making an attempt on Switch(like NIS) was already trying to branch out a few years later than they should have, and NIS was actually one of the first to make the attempt. It took Sony literally banning their game for Compile Heart to do an inhouse port of one of their games, and they're still continuing to do PS4 exclusives with the occasional late port on Switch.
It's easy to say that the 3DS might not have been favourable, or even that there was doubts about Nintendo's future in consoles, but at the end of the day they stayed stuck in their ways and have now largely been left behind. Switch hasn't been the silver bullet for any of these publishers because their brands have already decayed so much that it's difficult to recover.
nisa takes a lot more risk. where nis will lower budgets and hope for a sleeper hit, nisa will invest in things that may not pay off, like funding the development of pc games or backing weirdo titles super, super hard to establish new relationships with creators. you get birthdays the beginning, touhou games, time and eternity, and hitmaker games on one hand, and gust games, if games (as much as i don't like them, they were pretty popular), and danganronpa on the other. nis in japan could do similar things from the west. spike chunsoft does - taking in popular western games and localizing them for japan. but the games they do take are similarly smaller (i think that 'yonder' game was the most recent example of a bigger western game they handled), and they don't seem built for being a 'publisher' as much as they are a 'developer' - where nisa is mostly a marketing team that operates similar to atlus.
Persona sells like FE on Nintendo systems, both in Japan and WW. Its hard to grow out of its expanded niche.
This is actually a very valid concern. If I'm planning to release a game that I expect it to sell 100K on a million user base, would I still want to release it on the same date when the user base is only at 500k? This also gets to the chicken and egg question. If there is no games released, there is no incentive for consumers to buy the system. If there is not enough system on the market, publisher will hesitate to release the game. This is why a strong first party software is important. The platform owner can still release the first party games in this situation to sell the systems while 3rd party is waiting.
Also, talking about Nintendo games that sell in Japan. You can find the common factor that it can be enjoyed by the whole family and all age groups/genders. Sony's system is already targeted at a narrower market with its price point combined with the type of games they develop. It's easy to see why it has a harder time to become a breakout hit in Japan.
This is totally happening since it happens every new gen launch like clockwork.
Maybe i was in the minority, but i wasn't expecting any PS5/XBSX exclusives from japan before 2023 regardless of how well or poorly the PS5 sold. There's no real incentive because 99.99% of japanese devs are not limited by last gen hardware.
Maybe Sony should have made the PS5 a hybrid. Doesn't look like the PS5 will successfully revive the home console market in Japan.
Vita was trying to be hybrid, look at TV port in vita 1.0 that they never use and later vita tv.
It was "sidelining" the prequel.
Being high spec machine for western market is right move, just let the Japan go. Told you guys fan not Sony anyway, Sony itself they let Japan go since ps3 or something.
It was "sidelining" the prequel.
Being high spec machine for western market is right move, just let the Japan go. Told you guys fan not Sony anyway, Sony itself they let Japan go since ps3 or something.