It's really unbelievable, but I better not say anything else, I don't wanna join him.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
- Status
Although I do agree that there a tonal issue with how some of us speak to others in here. Sometimes it's "sub tweeting", others it's pointed accusations, while the rest can be pretty passive aggressive.
But I think the issue is two fold and I hope the mods don't just see it as a one sided issue.
But I think the issue is two fold and I hope the mods don't just see it as a one sided issue.
I just hope Chris doesn't leave Media Create threads because he provides good insight and analysis. He's basically the heart of these threads and without him, they would lose their appeal imo.
Are MC sales threads or are they threads to discuss the latest villains in the Japanese videogame industry?
It's also incredible to see people complain about moderation after bullying Oregano for having a slightly different viewpoint in this very thread.
It's also incredible to see people complain about moderation after bullying Oregano for having a slightly different viewpoint in this very thread.
User banned (1 day): antagonism towards another member
Thank you for the input, user with a low post history despite being created at the site's founding that only posted in an MC thread once the entire time.
Wait, so if what Chris did was trolling then what was this, I'm genuinely curious.
Pretty much. While I appreciate the contributions of Tbone, Vink and others, as mostly a lurker for more than 15 years I appreciate Chris' posts the most.
Guidelines on posting
Official Staff Communication
Lately, there has been an uptick of reported posts and disciplinary action related to the weekly Media Create threads. Many posters have complained of no longer having a voice in these threads because certain posters, including thread regulars, have replied in a hostile or condescending manner. This needs to stop. Please keep the following advice in mind when participating in these threads, regardless of how long you've been part of this community. Failure to do so could result in action being taken.
- Sales threads should always be about that — the sales data itself. They should not be used as a guise for port begging, console/platform wars or other forms of trolling that wouldn't be allowed elsewhere on the forum.
- In general, sales threads should focus on business and economic elements, i.e. comparing past and present data, observing trends, or making educated guesses.
- While these threads do focus on Japan, it is not against the rules to discuss worldwide sales trends in the context of Japanese sales. It is OK to compare data from Japan to other countries, but like all posts, it needs to be done in good faith.
- Do not be snarky, passive aggressive, condescending or otherwise disrespectful towards other users that you don't agree with. Not everyone has the same knowledge of sales and business, and if you feel someone is incorrect in their interpretation of data, constructively correct them (in as much detail as possible) instead of mocking them. Make yourself useful, not disruptive.
- Sales data should never be weaponized or used to justify racist rhetoric, such as generalizing, mocking or trivializing the interests of another country, such as Japan or China.
- Accusations that companies or creators/developers are showing favoritism for or bias against certain companies (i.e. Nagoshi, Harada, Nihon Falcom, etc. for Sony/against Nintendo) are not allowed unless there is evidence supporting such accusations.
- Drive-bys and other inappropriate commentary are not allowed. (i.e. no-substance single word/sentences responses like "bomba").
- If you're posting any kind of data, please post a link or source for transparency going forward. This not only includes sales data, but also information gleaned from retail blogs or Twitter accounts.
- If you're posting about information that originally appeared in a non-English language such as Japanese (or a language you don't necessarily understand), please be confident as to the accuracy of the translation. If you're not confident, say so and reach out to the community to get an accurate reading.
Last edited:
Those are all great points. Hope people follow the guidelines going forward. People can disagree without being jerks. I think we're all capable of it.
Read the guidelines and still don't know how this thread is as moderated as it is/was.
I also still don't really understand the whole CC2 thing that was started by a mod and wasn't shared by a lot of people and didn't really disprove anything, while inviting even more hostility towards the community.
I also still don't really understand the whole CC2 thing that was started by a mod and wasn't shared by a lot of people and didn't really disprove anything, while inviting even more hostility towards the community.
If someone dares to say this, they better have a very compelling argument.
I guess some users finally got what they wanted and been working towards the last couple weeks, of course the ToA release and another CC2 release was gonna do it. That's disappointing, you really can't make this up.
Hope moving forward that user than continue to participate in this thread do better.
Hope moving forward that user than continue to participate in this thread do better.
I mean this just goes along with reading trends of certain companies/individuals. Discussion around developers and PS4/5/Switch support is pretty relevant to the market.
Me being bitter about these threads unironically going on and on about Harada for pages? I've largely checked the numbers and then dipped for the past year because the cyclical discourse is bizarre.
Agreed. We have the quote from the old SQEX CEO about the Japanese market being all behind the winner, some devs being scared of Nintendo monopoly, and Nagoshi's comments about the people "graduating" from handhelds and all that.
Like I said before, the context changes every week with new releases and Bamco's number of releases decreasing every year to the point of being below Konami. This is a weekly thread so there will obviously be some repeat conversations as we discuss trends and changes in the market. I don't think it's fair to call out discussions because they discuss similar topics each week.
This seems like such a weird rule. People don't just randomly start doing that for shits and giggles. They're conclusions that are pretty natural to reach after the decisions some companies have made over several years. I could understand stressing that it shouldn't be aimed at individuals, but to include Falcom as an example is extremely bizarre. You need a written letter from the company expressing bias to suggest as much?
In general this is not the direction I was expecting this to go lol. There are people who post in these threads every week who are not very subtle at all about their bad faith posting and trolling and I guess I thought that was going to be the target of the rules. Didn't expect to go in the opposite direction. You guys had a whole thread of people rallying around low NMH3 sales for console war reasons and didn't give a single shit.
I feel the evidence portion is too strict in that what counts as evidence from person to person. For some people it's a long standing pattern, for another it's direct quotation. Discussing very real patterns among corporate decisions within Japan can be treated by some as entirely circumstantial and be reported as propping up a narrative they don't want to see.
Happened a lot over the last dang year mate where you been.
I don't really disagree with those bullet points. But I still have issue with Chris being banned for a day, and even warned for hostility in reply to Caiops, who has been trolling these threads for months now. Reporting clearly doesn't seem to be doing anything either.
MC threads had an issue with Kerotan in the past who would always post innocuous posts which were bad faith, and why he was permabanned on VGChartz. I could never state as such though I knew out of fear of being banned for offsite drama, but their gone now, and it wasn't being bad faith in an MC thread and causing disruption and derailment. Just like Psycho Mantis was never dealt with for years until he was banned for console warring outside the thread, despite all the console warring they would do in the Mc threads.
So what is going on? Will these rules actually apply? Will the MC threads be more actively moderated? While I cite a couple of examples, there's far more of the same old same old of drive-bys and trolls that come in and are never dealt with for months until their banned elsewhere for the issues people report them for in these threads.
I don't participate much, I mostly lurk, and have lurked since at least the Wii U era and seen the pot boil over time and time again like today because reports are clearly not being listened to.
MC threads had an issue with Kerotan in the past who would always post innocuous posts which were bad faith, and why he was permabanned on VGChartz. I could never state as such though I knew out of fear of being banned for offsite drama, but their gone now, and it wasn't being bad faith in an MC thread and causing disruption and derailment. Just like Psycho Mantis was never dealt with for years until he was banned for console warring outside the thread, despite all the console warring they would do in the Mc threads.
So what is going on? Will these rules actually apply? Will the MC threads be more actively moderated? While I cite a couple of examples, there's far more of the same old same old of drive-bys and trolls that come in and are never dealt with for months until their banned elsewhere for the issues people report them for in these threads.
I don't participate much, I mostly lurk, and have lurked since at least the Wii U era and seen the pot boil over time and time again like today because reports are clearly not being listened to.
And another reason to talk about the same topics and industry heads each week is to see if they will or try to predict their next move when numbers related to financials come out. For example, we saw Spike Chunsoft finally bring Danganronpa to the Switch when only the PMD side of the company was supporting Switch.
I heavily disagree that being "too cyclical" is a bannable offense.
I heavily disagree that being "too cyclical" is a bannable offense.
Wait Chris got banned for a day for that? Hope he comes back… Could we like thread mark the useful news and links? While discussion is nice sometimes, I really couldn't care less about most of it due to the repetitive subjects.
Would acklowledging their actual output be enough evidence or do we have to source the dumb shit he says in IR meetings and Famitsu interviews every time someone like, say Kondo, comes up? We can do the latter just fine but it seems like an overreach and it'd get tiring when the platform loyalties (in direct spite of market realities) are sort of self evident and pretty well documented already?
Nice that we have clear rules now, hope they're well enforced. Gotta say, some of the evidence ones seem rough and won't help some regulars like Anihawk when sharing info.
Can't really understand the point of Chris' 1 day ban though, was it just some power move?
Can't really understand the point of Chris' 1 day ban though, was it just some power move?
I'd imagine Bamco's decreasing releases have a lot to do with trying to release more expensive (to develop) games, both in time, manpower and costs. Fortunately they haven't gone all in with trying to push next gen hardware or they'd release less games.
At least, for now, this works for them. If they believe they don't need Japan to be a very important market for most of their new releases, but they do well overseas, they'll be fine even with the increased costs of development, though obviously their relevance in Japan will decrease if they refuse to support the only console that can sell software decently, as the PS4 has no future and the PS5 doesn't seem like it'll be able to sell much.
Speaking of which, I hope that by 2022 the global supply has estabilized somewhat so that we can see the true demand in Japan.
At least, for now, this works for them. If they believe they don't need Japan to be a very important market for most of their new releases, but they do well overseas, they'll be fine even with the increased costs of development, though obviously their relevance in Japan will decrease if they refuse to support the only console that can sell software decently, as the PS4 has no future and the PS5 doesn't seem like it'll be able to sell much.
Speaking of which, I hope that by 2022 the global supply has estabilized somewhat so that we can see the true demand in Japan.
This bullet point concerns sales data only, such as charts. Some users complained that charts would be posted without a link to where they came from. For example, in the OP, there is no link to the actual Famitsu page. Please post a link if you can. (Some links update weekly, which is fine. Please post it anyway.)
Yeah I really hope this rule is stuck down or heavily amended. We have years of interviews, patterns, and comments about the Switch user base to make these claims. I mean can anyone claim Harada doesn't have some kind of bias against Switch after Bamco's output since 2019 and his interviews about budgets or western market comparisons?
Probably didn't help that the person he was making fun of is a mod.
Hopefully moderation on this thread is better but honestly the best approach for folks making bad faith arguments is just to ignore them. They'll keep making it for a while and nothing will happen for a while based on previous history.
I'm not a fan of the "stop saying certain developers are showing favoritism" rule. The reason folks bring it up is because we think it's a bad business decision in Japan. Yeh it can get repetitive but I would hate to get moderated for a reasoned argument on "why they do keep having titles disappoint due to weird business decisions".
I'm not a fan of the "stop saying certain developers are showing favoritism" rule. The reason folks bring it up is because we think it's a bad business decision in Japan. Yeh it can get repetitive but I would hate to get moderated for a reasoned argument on "why they do keep having titles disappoint due to weird business decisions".
While I don't agree with these rules entirely, framing what they say as "dumb shit" is what lead to this rule in the first place. Developers are painted as dumb dumb guy getting cozy with platforms instead of simply having a bias, preference, or comfort on preferring certain platforms based on their previous experience. It's irrational, but it's still a valid business decision (disregarding the results). It's tiring to read and lately provides no value to the discussion.
A lot of those were just memes about dinners and stuff, most of the serious stuff was in regards to his decisions on Sakura Wars and dev team consolidation.
Do users in other threads get banned when they accuse Jim Ryan of saying dumb shit? I can understand personally attacking him, but making a PS5 engine while claiming you doing have the resources to support Switch day and date is questionable to say the least. I mean are Parker not allowed to swear anymore? Feels kind of weird that this thread specifically is being held to unique standards.
Yeah I'm starting to get worried about how much longer the truly valuable resources we have will stick around. Remember when Mat Piscatella and actual insiders used to actually hang around here before being driven off by trolls?
User warned: mod whining, derailment
Wow banning Chris is like having the bad guys winning in the movie at the end.
Old place vibes, not a good feeling.
And also:
Old place vibes, not a good feeling.
And also:
How is that weirdly personal when it was just a result of his action and him putting all eggs into a single basket for no reason ? People been saying that it's risky and that there is no reason to skip or leave out a potential massive install base for your software yet he went ahead with that.
Should we now feel sorry for being proven right ? Let alone the incident with him calling out the PuyoPuyo playersbase in public. This wasn't a good look.
Seems like people want creators to be shielded from all kind of critism just because they make games we enjoy. On a business level its fair to call out some decision that have been made, this isn't personal.
Also this is an actual complaint I have. If you're going to accuse people of "mocking" Nagoshi or other people, then you have to show the receipts. I'm kind of tired if people painting these threads as some uninhabitable toxic wasteland by throwing around accusations like that.
- Status