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Mechwarrior 5: Mercenaries drops Steam and will be available exclusively on EGS [yes, please read STAFF POST]
- Thread starter Deleted member 8196
- Start date
MW2 actually did pretty well, that says nothing about the the meme, a large bunch of people in that group may have boycotted it. The series fell down the well after that.
The inciting incident usually has long term repercussions.
PC storefront excusivity moneyhats is kinda a new thing for the whole PC community. Also this conflict of Epic vs Steam is forming which is turning into a de facto platform war, which trolls have a field day with honing the flames.
Except quite blatantly, most of the arguing is PC users, having to explain what Steam and other services actually do consistently - to people who don't really care about that ecosystem at all, and like to platform war
Funny that.
Also this isn't "new". GFWL had tried the same, and to a large extent the same about UWP and PC gaming. Forum discourse was very similar!
Noticing any patterns!
Yes. Available on Steam and possibly GOG in December 2020.
as far as I recall back then in the gaming social groups I followed, the problem was the lack of dedicated servers and it resulted in Activision putting back dedicated servers the following year
Didn't follow the COD series that much. What happened?
anyway, I think the "boycott" of Mechwarrior 5 is neglible numbers compared to the larger picture. I have also read a lot of irrational whining with people throwing a tantrum. It's perplexing to see people turn so hostile over an understandable decision that still allows people to refund their game and keep the preorder content and the game coming to their favorite platform a year later.
Just to correct you here, COD didn't decline at all. Black Ops 4 had record sales for the franchise.
Is this a joke?
Because Call of Duty fell out of fashion on PC, to the point of being almost irrelevant... and isn't even on Steam anymore. Activision touted hard about the sales of the latest game on Battle.net last year too.
Because the last few games didn't even reach 1M copies sold on Steam. A franchise that easily sold 20M+, gone from a PC headliner to a few percents of the total sales.
CoD very much defined a generation of gaming! Of console gaming. It died on PC a long time ago.
And I don't believe for a second that the stupid boycott was the reason for it, but it sure as hell helped its demise on PC. Bad blood and negative publicity is a big deal.
Valve changed their curation when Impulse started getting traction?
It was dead and bought by Gamestop before Steam Greenlight even existed.
Without even talking about the "recent" updates to Steam, and all their work on VR and open source stuff... while they do, indeed, reign as uncontested market leader in their little niche.
Interesting nod to Desura, they did good with Linux support (who does that nowadays? Let me think...). Also, they tried to become popular with... offering free games. And, oh, they're dead. It was nice to focus on indies. Clearly, that didn't work so well for them.
Also, Valve takes a smaller percentage based on total revenue, not on developer.
But the cut is very telling: why aren't publishers flocking to Discord?
They only take 10%, less than Epic.
They are a juggernaut in the PC space, with oh so many active "customers".
Where are the games? Why isn't anyone bothering with them?
Weird, huh?
Yup.
Still no Games for Windows Live.
Still no paid online on PC. The console competition did a lot of good to that one, didn't it?
The Windows Store is still shit... and suddenly people come back to it when they try their hardest to get the customers back with excellent pricing and support!
Odd how they didn't just dump more money into the hands of a few publishers. And I'm sure they tried... but talking about Call of Duty, remember Infinite Warfare? That was on the Windows Store in 2016.
Good old generation defining Call of Duty, am I right?
You are quoting a refund rate of 6% on the first day the refunds were available. That is fucking huge! And only the first day.
the first and second day is usually the big ones, after that it drops drastically because the people who care about it have already checked out.
Fair enough. I am all for anything that makes me more right. hee hee
But I recall an article (maybe kotaku?) that did an analysis that normalized against the overall increase in the gaming populace. In that regard it is a decline. But it is also like saying "You made 3 million dollars instead of 4 million dollars this year"
PGI has been circling the drain financially, due to the horrible mismanagement of Mechwarrior Online. The game has hemorrhaged its player population because of gameplay decisions and lack of content development. PGI even admitted that profitability had them focusing on Mechwarrior 5.
It's a 100% fact that if MW5 bombs, PGI is washed, let alone with renewal of the license looming.
It's so easy to say you wouldn't do La Macarena when Epic takes advantage of your position and still slides a check with 3 commas across the table. There is a difference between selling your soul, and saving your life.
I can acknowledge this and I fucking hate PGI. The incompetence that has brought MWO so low, rests completely on the shoulders of the same people who are selling you that they can deliver on the rebirth of Mechwarrior.
PGI is jumping in with Epic because the leadership tore the business down around themselves, and has no choice left.
It is good to know that I ca refund the pre-order but keep the MWO stuff though. I guess the Epic check has them in fuck it mode.
It's a 100% fact that if MW5 bombs, PGI is washed, let alone with renewal of the license looming.
It's so easy to say you wouldn't do La Macarena when Epic takes advantage of your position and still slides a check with 3 commas across the table. There is a difference between selling your soul, and saving your life.
I can acknowledge this and I fucking hate PGI. The incompetence that has brought MWO so low, rests completely on the shoulders of the same people who are selling you that they can deliver on the rebirth of Mechwarrior.
PGI is jumping in with Epic because the leadership tore the business down around themselves, and has no choice left.
It is good to know that I ca refund the pre-order but keep the MWO stuff though. I guess the Epic check has them in fuck it mode.
I wonder if PGI got a license extension or if a release on another PC platform falls outside of that. I don't think we have a specific date when the MW deal is up but I believe the one for Shadowrun ended closer to the middle of the year rather than the end.
I think they'll get money from MW5 even when their rights to the Mechwarrior license expires in 2020.
Russ actually mentioned this in today's AMA. He said that everything rides on MW5.
I don't think everyone or even a majority of people are gonna ask for refunds. In fact I think the majority of Battletech and MW fans will get the game or EGS or buy it later, but you're pulling this out of your ass now.
"usually"
How often does a game company money hats a game into being an timed exclusive after it was being sold on other platforms to the point that people need to ask for refunds cause that's not why they preordered or backed a kickstarter? These days it seems to mostly involve EGS.
Oh, I don't doubt that. HBS still sells their Shadowrun games even after that deal ended.
I mean that PGI is going to publish a "kinda" new release really late in 2020 when it seems the deal ends before that.
MWO isn't a decent product. It's an awful F2P game that relies on nostalgia to get older MW fans to dump their disposable income on absurd mech packages.
If you've ever spent time around PGI, their decisions, or their monetization practices, you'll find many reasons to dislike them
I estimate that the game will do fine and Microsoft will grant them the license again, but even if they didn't, the December release on Steam would probably be okay or something.
Yesterday was 700. Today was 500. It is only going to go down now. The people who has a problem with installing a software launcher will already have made their refund request by now, the rest don't care. PGI most likely won't end up with more than 2k refunds, which is 10% and does not compare to the beacoup bucks that Epic is forking over.
yeah, it's such a bad company huh? resurrected a franchise that microsoft doesn't care about, kept pushing when they didn't get funding in 2009 with smith & tinker's pitch for MW:3015, and ended up making a F2P game in CryEngine with Alex Iglesias as the mech artist, kept the lights on for 7 years (rare for F2P games), started MWO world championships, started an annual Mechcon for the first time in Battletech history, gave HBS all the 3D mech models to make a better Battletech strategy game, then took a stand against Harmony Gold and got the Unseen mechs back for all the developers, and now is making the first singleplayer mechwarrior game in 17 years. What a horrible studio with some awful people, huh.
That doesn't explain why you said "usually" like it's some factual thing that happens often enough that people should believe that's true.
I mean, that's what happens when there is outrage and people bring out the pitchforks no matter the cause. it starts out like an explosion and then peters out like a wet fart.
anyway, enjoy this new screenshot from the new EGS page for MW5:
So basically nothing to back up "usually" and then attempted distraction, which looks just like MWO so nothing new to see.
"They did the thing the license required them to do in order to continue to have said license" so they're beyond criticism? What a bizarre defense of a completely unforced error on PGI's part.
I do wonder about Russ' earlier comment about asking Microsoft about Game Pass and Xbox options for MW5. Maybe MS will become more involved in things going forward. They're certainly more interested in the PC space nowadays, I mean just look at the money being spent on Flight Simulator.
This one 2k is holding for announcement after they see if Borderlands 3 sold as expected. If they see no impact from EGS exclusivity (without considering the Epic guarantee) they will go all out with it and like Ubi, cash in on EGS' willingness to pay for exclusivity.
Your examples are... dubious. Valve added their social features in 2007, long before Twitch and Discord became popular. Desura and Impulse never gained traction, which is why they both died a long time ago and certainly had no influence whatsoever on Steam's curation system.
I know it's fun to suggest that Valve only improves their service because of competition but that narrative doesn't fit with reality. Valve has improved Steam based on feedback from its customers. Initially, Steam was highly curated which meant games were accepted and rejected based on arbitrary notions of quality. Indie devs complained that it was too hard to get on Steam so Valve created Greenlight which allowed customers to vote for the games they wanted on the platform. This worked pretty well but indie devs still complained that it was too hard to get on Steam so Valve lowered the requirements for being greenlit. Indie devs continued to complain so Valve replaced Greenlight with Direct and allowed any dev to put their games on Steam for a small fee. Then indie devs complained that it was too easy to get on Steam so their games weren't getting any exposure, so Valve has been working on discovery tools ever since, with the latest being Steam Lab.
Steam has always been a customer-centric service and that's the reason for its success. Conversely, EGS isn't customer-centric at all. Instead of trying to earn customers through superior service, it tries to force people to use it through timed exclusives. Mechwarrior 5 is just another example of that.
Also, Steam's scaling cut isn't exclusive to AAA devs. Any game, indie or otherwise, gets a larger cut based on their revenue. At $10+ million, their cut is 75%. At $50+ million, it's 80%. There are many indie and AA games on Steam that have achieved that.
i'm going to pass on this game everywhere then.
at least there's still the clan invasion ks.
(epic can't exclusive that..or can they?)
perfect. real LOL in such an intense discussion.
at least there's still the clan invasion ks.
(epic can't exclusive that..or can they?)
perfect. real LOL in such an intense discussion.
I mean, that's what happens when there is outrage and people bring out the pitchforks no matter the cause. it starts out like an explosion and then peters out like a wet fart.
anyway, enjoy this new screenshot from the new EGS page for MW5:
That looks great.
The amount of money that would be required to secure RDR2 would probably be much larger than the titles they've been picking up. Not saying they wouldn't or cant do it, but thinking about the numbers is fun.
I've managed to avoid EGS thus far. Have only used it twice for review code but have yet to make a single purchase. My backlog is large enough that it's easy to ignore.
I suppose it's the success of Fortnite that has created this situation.
I don't think it's about the cut. Epic is buying these games and, in some cases, effectively paying for the entire development. They're throwing serious cash around. More than you might think too. A lot more for certain games.
I suppose it's the success of Fortnite that has created this situation.
I mean, that's what happens when there is outrage and people bring out the pitchforks no matter the cause. it starts out like an explosion and then peters out like a wet fart.
anyway, enjoy this new screenshot from the new EGS page for MW5:
You must have a lot invested in EGS and PGI.
User Warned: inflammatory accusations
Almost very shill like at times.
Uh no it's pretty much straight-forward with these things - the initial wave is the largest and then the boycott drops in numbers.
lol all of these things that PGI has done for Mechwarrior are not mandated by the license at all. That is them going above and beyond to keep Mechwarrior alive and successful.
I'm not sure that inflammatory statements like "one of the worst F2P whale fishing games of all time", or "these people don't deserve your money or the license. " or "an awful F2P game" or "you'll find many reasons to dislike" the company" are sensible at all given the many reasons I've given you. In fact, I find the comments of yours very toxic and illustrative of dumb gamer rage.
No, not really. I just saw the news and have been watching MW5 on the sidelines. Then this incredibly hostile and toxic reaction over a smart business decision that even allows players to get their money back and keep their MWO content has simply made me perplexed and ultimately appalled by how childish, immature, toxic, and abusive gamers are over this thing. It is just sad to see the level of vitriol and toxicity against PGI despite how much they do for the community and for their customers and this deal doesn't sound bad at all.
Microsoft doesn't care about their Mechwarrior IP at all, so I'm not surprised.
Wow, that's not very nice.
I'm not being toxic, abusive, or the like but I get why people are upset. I understand why the developer did what they did not many would not take the cash.
Does not mean me as a consumer has to like Devs getting in bed with EGS and forcing me to have less choice and now having to wait a further year for something I have been keen on for years.
This splintering of the PC with exclusive bullshit has been nothing but shit for customers and the PC space.
Btw PGI threating people with losing beta access is pretty poor too.
I didn't say you were toxic, I am talking about the gamers and fans. Go look through Russ Bullocks' mentions, it's deplorable.
PGI hasn't threated people with losing beta access, that's someone lying or misrepresenting.
I don't think people should attack anyone so I won't say that's the way to deal with this but people should be allowed to disagree with the deal they took?
His twitter is where I read this I may be reading into it but it reads like a threat.
They should honor beta access regardless since they are the ones choosing to screw over customers.
I am sorry but that is not a threat, that is telling you that if you cancel your preorder, you miss out on the beta.
Also, I have seen PGI getting a lot of abuse online yesterday and today.
Like I said it's how I'm reading it so I'm happy to be wrong but they should give beta access to those who refund regardless given this situation imo.
They will (sadly) get abuse because people are upset which sucks but it's also not unexpected I know you like to downplay the issu and think it's coming from nothing.
Russ would've waited longer to reveal this whole situation if not for a mistake in updating the FAQs. So that's already cause for getting annoyed - last minutes whoopsies despite knowing before the MWO preorder stuff ended aren't nice. *irrational*
No guarantees of cross play if you choose to buy now and want to play with people who want to wait for the Steam release. *irrational*
Paying the same for less client features BUT getting 3 localisations wich aren't exactly a priority compared to big picture, steamimput, friendlist, cloudsaves[might be doable on EGS now], workshop and whatnot. *irrational*
But keep passiveaggressively handwaving people's legitimate complaints as toxic and irrational
Jarl's list link? Can't think many people who actively play MWO, even in the last few years, would say it's competently managed. Whales for a niche franchise loved by people with loads of disposable income are what kept afloat the game by dropping 100+$ each month, certainly not Russ' business sense.
This is the bottom line for me. Steam is as successful as it is because it has been customer focused almost since the beginning. Their philosophy is that if their store is focused on the customer, there will be more of them for developers to market to.
EGS' philosophy is fuck the whiny consumers, they're all pirates anyway, we only care about the publishers.
This might get them some sales at the beginning, since they are preventing popular titles from hitting Steam, but's it's not going to last. And it's not something I, as a consumer, will ever support.
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I would much rather get
1. a much more polished game with a better narrative
2. French German and Russian localization at release
3. a big marketing push to help make it successful and more mechwarrior in the future
than some cloud saves (lol) or my friend list for a singleplayer game.
and I am not calling people's "people's legitimate complaints" toxic and irrational, I am calling some people's insults and harassment of PGI toxic and irrational. It's just a software launcher and it'll come out on Steam later, chill the fuck out .
To be honest, it's not even "fuck the consumer". They didn't even factor the consumer in the equation in the first place. It's a complete disregard of what a customer wants or needs. The reality is, it's the attitude that customers are just cattle who will happily install dozens of garbage apps on their PC to play a myriad of different games.
While there's the fact that too many exclusives will hurt the PC as a platform, especially if the tactic begins to work, my main objection to EGS really comes down to service. EGS is barely more than a glorified downloader. In fact, I've seen torrent clients and free browser download managers with more functionality than the Epic launcher (and that's in no way me endorsing piracy - just highlighting that many instances of piracy are a service issue), and with their minuscule cut there's really no incentive for them to build out the client with quality of life features to make it worth using in any speedy way. At their current pace, ten years from now EGS still won't match Steam feature-for-feature in 2019, which in my view is a major degradation in quality of the PC as a platform.
I'm not even a "Steam only" guy - I buy where the best deal is. That's not necessarily on price, but many times it is. "The best deal" can also be a DRM-free version, and as such I will be buying Cyberpunk 2077 and Bloodlines 2 on GOG. It also helps that GOG are working hard to improve their (completely optional) client, and have done more to build out the second major version of their client, including QA and such which is ongoing, than Epic has done for their own client since it launched -- and that's because GOG understands that to win customers they need to provide a quality service.
EGS is as much an attitude problem as anything else. If Epic had decided to build out their store with free games, start adding features and then a year or so down the line when they have something that vaguely resembles an acceptable piece of software in 2019, then began paying for exclusives, the backlash wouldn't be even half as fierce.
Microsoft hasn't had a lot of luck with PC gamers, but at least they're finally starting to learn. I still can't believe they're putting Halo on Steam.
You keep parroting that "just a software launcher" bullshit so how about you just give me the €300 for Win10?
And really curious that you will play the game in French, German and Russian. All at the same time or multiple playthroughs?
Nothing you said here makes much sense. If you want to argue it would make more sense to make an actual argument.
uh I was talking about the people harassing and insulting the people at PGI over twitter and facebook and reddit and how they should "chill the fuck out" with that gamer rage over a 1-year exclusive software launcher
You think harassment against a small studio is okay? Because that what was I was complaining about
You still used that shitty launcher talking point when that is simply not true for some people.
And you used additional stuff that gets now added due to the deal (e.g. localization) as a bonus but said Steam features are worthless. Like yeah, maybe for you but just accept that isn't true for everybody. Some people (myself included) get shafted, just so Epic can prop up their store.
I'm specifically referring to the chat overhaul to make it more in line with "modern chat clients" and the like
And yeah, indie devs complained. And then clients like Desura and even Impulse started to provide an option for indie devs. Greenlight was apparently started in 2012. The prime of Desura and the like were the 2009-2013 range (shockingly hard to find data).
And what do we have now? Valve pushed a system to make themselves more favorable to AAA developers (a direct response to stuff like UPlay, BethesdaNet, modern Battle.net, etc) that favors high selling games. Indie devs said "what the fucking shit?". EGS make that their banner to wave and other outlets (like Humble) quietly remind people they have better cuts as well.
And time will tell how Valve responds.
You can still get the game a year later though? Is your preference for cloud saves and Steam friend list more important than the success of a small studio betting on this project? Besides, you get the game in a much better state than at launch thanks to patches and mods at that point. :-)