MW2 actually did pretty well, that says nothing about the the meme, a large bunch of people in that group may have boycotted it. The series fell down the well after that.I also think the Modern Warfare 2 boycott meme sucks ass, but looking at the data above, not a lot of fans are boycotting Mechwarrior 5 because of this decision.
PC storefront excusivity moneyhats is kinda a new thing for the whole PC community. Also this conflict of Epic vs Steam is forming which is turning into a de facto platform war, which trolls have a field day with honing the flames.
MW2 actually did pretty well, that says nothing about the the meme, a large bunch of people in that group may have boycotted it. The series fell down the well after that.
The inciting incident usually has long term repercussions.
And it still kept on dyingas far as I recall back then in the gaming social groups I followed, the problem was the lack of dedicated servers and it resulted in Activision putting back dedicated servers the following year
- The boycott(s) did jack shit to CoD. But a few years later console players also realized listen servers are bullshit and there was the push toward ensuring that there were (publisher controlled) dedicated servers for most games. And now it is a point of pain for folk who want to play MP on Nintendo consoles. As for an overall "decline": That has happened all around. It is rare that a single franchise dominates all of gaming for a decade, let alone close to two.
Is this a joke?You mean the "boycott" where a significant percentage of the boycott group was playing MW2 on launch day?
And how the games continued to be popular on Steam for years to come and Call of Duty largely defined a generation of gaming?
Valve changed their curation when Impulse started getting traction?And we see the same thing happening with storefronts. Valve cranked up their social and community stuff because of Twitch and Discord. They changed their curation system as a result of seeing things like Desura and Impulse start getting traction. They even started to adjust how much of a cut they take from games last fall. And it stands to reason that if they don't think "Ewww, fuck EGS, eww" will continue that they'll adjust their cut to the non-AAA devs too.
Yup.But hey, gamers gonna rise up and boycott everything. It clearly worked in the past.
Didn't follow the COD series that much. What happened?
anyway, I think the "boycott" of Mechwarrior 5 is neglible numbers compared to the larger picture. I have also read a lot of irrational whining with people throwing a tantrum. It's perplexing to see people turn so hostile over an understandable decision that still allows people to refund their game and keep the preorder content and the game coming to their favorite platform a year later.
You are quoting a refund rate of 6% on the first day the refunds were available. That is fucking huge! And only the first day.
Fair enough. I am all for anything that makes me more right. hee heeJust to correct you here, COD didn't decline at all. Black Ops 4 had record sales for the franchise.
I wonder if PGI got a license extension or if a release on another PC platform falls outside of that. I don't think we have a specific date when the MW deal is up but I believe the one for Shadowrun ended closer to the middle of the year rather than the end.
I don't think everyone or even a majority of people are gonna ask for refunds. In fact I think the majority of Battletech and MW fans will get the game or EGS or buy it later, but you're pulling this out of your ass now.the first and second day is usually the big ones, after that it drops drastically because the people who care about it have already checked out.
I think they'll get money from MW5 even when their rights to the Mechwarrior license expires in 2020.
Russ actually mentioned this in today's AMA. He said that everything rides on MW5.
K.Jack why do you hate PGI so much? MWO has been online for 7 years now, a F2P game at that by a smaller studio, that to me is a sign of a somewhat decent product.
And if anything, the decision to go to EGS for a year is a sign of good leadership.
Oh, I don't doubt that. HBS still sells their Shadowrun games even after that deal ended.
I mean that PGI is going to publish a "kinda" new release really late in 2020 when it seems the deal ends before that.
I don't think everyone or even a majority of people are gonna ask for refunds. In fact I think the majority of Battletech and MW fans will get the game or EGS or buy it later, but you're pulling this out of your ass now.
"usually"
How often does a game company money hats a game into being an timed exclusive after it was being sold on other platforms to the point that people need to ask for refunds cause that's not why they preordered or backed a kickstarter? These days it seems to mostly involve EGS.
MWO isn't a decent product. It's an awful F2P game that relies on nostalgia to get older MW fans to dump their disposable income on absurd mech packages.
If you've ever spent time around PGI, their decisions, or their monetization practices, you'll find many reasons to dislike them
That doesn't explain why you said "usually" like it's some factual thing that happens often enough that people should believe that's true.Yesterday was 700. Today was 500. It is only going to go down now. The people who has a problem with installing a software launcher will already have made their refund request by now, the rest don't care. PGI most likely won't end up with more than 2k refunds, which is 10% and does not compare to the beacoup bucks that Epic is forking over.
That doesn't explain why you said "usually" like it's some factual thing that happens often enough that people should believe that's true.
So basically nothing to back up "usually" and then attempted distraction, which looks just like MWO so nothing new to see.I mean, that's what happens when there is outrage and people bring out the pitchforks no matter the cause. it starts out like an explosion and then peters out like a wet fart.
anyway, enjoy this new screenshot from the new EGS page for MW5:
yeah, it's such a bad company huh? resurrected a franchise that microsoft doesn't care about, kept pushing when they didn't get funding in 2009 with smith & tinker, ended up making a F2P game in CryEngine with Alex Iglesias as the mech artist, kept the lights on for 7 years (rare for F2P games), started MWO championships, started an annual Mechcon for the first time in Battletech history, took a stand against Harmony Gold and got the Unseen mechs back for all the developers, and now is making the first singleplayer mechwarrior game in 17 years. What a horrible studio with some awful people, huh.
I estimate that the game will do fine and Microsoft will grant them the license again, but even if they didn't, the December release on Steam would probably be okay or something.
This one 2k is holding for announcement after they see if Borderlands 3 sold as expected. If they see no impact from EGS exclusivity (without considering the Epic guarantee) they will go all out with it and like Ubi, cash in on EGS' willingness to pay for exclusivity.Pshhh, Mechwarrior?
Come on Epic give me already the thread to end all threads with "RED DEAD REDEMPTION 2 PC COMING EXCLUSIVELY TO EPIC GAME STORE (READ STAFF AND THREADMARK POSTS BEFORE COMMENTING)".
And we see the same thing happening with storefronts. Valve cranked up their social and community stuff because of Twitch and Discord. They changed their curation system as a result of seeing things like Desura and Impulse start getting traction. They even started to adjust how much of a cut they take from games last fall. And it stands to reason that if they don't think "Ewww, fuck EGS, eww" will continue that they'll adjust their cut to the non-AAA devs too.
I mean, that's what happens when there is outrage and people bring out the pitchforks no matter the cause. it starts out like an explosion and then peters out like a wet fart.
anyway, enjoy this new screenshot from the new EGS page for MW5:
This one 2k is holding for announcement after they see if Borderlands 3 sold as expected. If they see no impact from EGS exclusivity (without considering the Epic guarantee) they will go all out with it and like Ubi, cash in on EGS' willingness to pay for exclusivity.
I don't think it's about the cut. Epic is buying these games and, in some cases, effectively paying for the entire development. They're throwing serious cash around. More than you might think too. A lot more for certain games.And we see the same thing happening with storefronts. Valve cranked up their social and community stuff because of Twitch and Discord. They changed their curation system as a result of seeing things like Desura and Impulse start getting traction. They even started to adjust how much of a cut they take from games last fall. And it stands to reason that if they don't think "Ewww, fuck EGS, eww" will continue that they'll adjust their cut to the non-AAA devs too.
I mean, that's what happens when there is outrage and people bring out the pitchforks no matter the cause. it starts out like an explosion and then peters out like a wet fart.
anyway, enjoy this new screenshot from the new EGS page for MW5:
Almost very shill like at times.
So basically nothing to back up "usually" and then attempted distraction, which looks just like MWO so nothing new to see.
"They did the thing the license required them to do in order to continue to have said license" so they're beyond criticism? What a bizarre defense of a completely unforced error on PGI's part.
I'm more shocked it's skipping the Windows Store. I would have thought MS would include a W10 release in their licensing agreement
Uh no it's pretty much straight-forward with these things - the initial wave is the largest and then the boycott drops in numbers.
lol all of these things that PGI has done for Mechwarrior are not mandated by the license at all. That is them going above and beyond to keep Mechwarrior alive and successful.
I'm not sure that inflammatory statements like "one of the worst F2P whale fishing games of all time", or "these people don't deserve your money or the license. " or "an awful F2P game" or "you'll find many reasons to dislike" the company" are sensible at all given the many reasons I've given you. In fact, I find the comments of yours very toxic and illustrative of dumb gamer rage.
No, not really. I just saw the news and have been watching MW5 on the sidelines. Then this incredibly hostile and toxic reaction over a smart business decision that even allows players to get their money back and keep their MWO content has simply made me perplexed and ultimately appalled by how childish, immature, toxic, and abusive gamers are over this thing. It is just sad to see the level of vitriol and toxicity against PGI despite how much they do for the community and for their customers and this deal doesn't sound bad at all
I'm not being toxic, abusive, or the like but I get why people are upset. I understand why the developer did what they did not many would not take the cash.
Does not mean me as a consumer has to like Devs getting in bed with EGS and forcing me to have less choice and now having to wait a further year for something I have been keen on for years.
This splintering of the PC with exclusive bullshit has been nothing but shit for customers and the PC space.
Btw PGI threating people with losing beta access is pretty poor too.
I didn't say you were toxic, I am talking about the gamers and fans. Go look through Russ Bullocks' mentions, it's deplorable.
PGI hasn't threated people with losing beta access, that's someone lying or misrepresenting.
I don't think people should attack anyone so I won't say that's the way to deal with this but people should be allowed to disagree with the deal they took?
His twitter is where I read this I may be reading into it but it reads like a threat.
They should honor beta access regardless since they are the ones choosing to screw over customers.
I am sorry but that is not a threat, that is telling you that if you cancel your preorder, you miss out on the beta.
Also, I have seen PGI getting a lot of abuse online yesterday and today.
It's perplexing to see people turn so hostile over an understandable decision that still allows people to refund their game and keep the preorder content and the game coming to their favorite platform a year later.
K.Jack why do you hate PGI so much? MWO has been online for 7 years now, a F2P game at that by a smaller studio, that to me is a sign of a somewhat decent product.
And if anything, the decision to go to EGS for a year is a sign of good leadership.
Your examples are... dubious. Valve added their social features in 2007, long before Twitch and Discord became popular. Desura and Impulse never gained traction, which is why they both died a long time ago and certainly had no influence whatsoever on Steam's curation system.
I know it's fun to suggest that Valve only improves their service because of competition but that narrative doesn't fit with reality. Valve has improved Steam based on feedback from its customers. Initially, Steam was highly curated which meant games were accepted and rejected based on arbitrary notions of quality. Indie devs complained that it was too hard to get on Steam so Valve created Greenlight which allowed customers to vote for the games they wanted on the platform. This worked pretty well but indie devs still complained that it was too hard to get on Steam so Valve lowered the requirements for being greenlit. Indie devs continued to complain so Valve replaced Greenlight with Direct and allowed any dev to put their games on Steam for a small fee. Then indie devs complained that it was too easy to get on Steam so their games weren't getting any exposure, so Valve has been working on discovery tools ever since, with the latest being Steam Lab.
Steam has always been a customer-centric service and that's the reason for its success. Conversely, EGS isn't customer-centric at all. Instead of trying to earn customers through superior service, it tries to force people to use it through timed exclusives. Mechwarrior 5 is just another example of that.
Also, Steam's scaling cut isn't exclusive to AAA devs. Any game, indie or otherwise, gets a larger cut based on their revenue. At $10+ million, their cut is 75%. At $50+ million, it's 80%. There are many indie and AA games on Steam that have achieved that.
Russ would've waited longer to reveal this whole situation if not for a mistake in updating the FAQs. So that's already cause for getting annoyed - last minutes whoopsies despite knowing before the MWO preorder stuff ended aren't nice. *irrational*
No guarantees of cross play if you choose to buy now and want to play with people who want to wait for the Steam release. *irrational*
Paying the same for less client features BUT getting 3 localisations wich aren't exactly a priority compared to big picture, steamimput, friendlist, cloudsaves[might be doable on EGS now], workshop and whatnot. *irrational*
But keep passiveaggressively handwaving as toxic and irrational
Jarl's list link? Can't think many people who actively play MWO, even in the last few years, would say it's competently managed. Whales for a niche franchise loved by people with loads of disposable income are what kept afloat the game by dropping 100+$ each month, certainly not Russ' business sense.
To be honest, it's not even "fuck the consumer". They didn't even factor the consumer in the equation in the first place. It's a complete disregard of what a customer wants or needs. The reality is, it's the attitude that customers are just cattle who will happily install dozens of garbage apps on their PC to play a myriad of different games.This is the bottom line for is. Steam is as successful as it is because it has been customer focused almost since the beginning. Their philosophy is that if their store is focused on the customer, there will be more of them for developers to market to.
EGS' philosophy is fuck the whiny consumers, we only care about the publishers.
This might them some sales at the beginning, since they are preventing some popular titles to hit Steam, but's it's not going to last. And it's not something I, as a consumer, will ever support.
The Windows Store is still shit... and suddenly people come back to it when they try their hardest to get the customers back with excellent pricing and support!
You keep parroting that "just a software launcher" bullshit so how about you just give me the €300 for Win10?It's just a software launcher and it'll come out on Steam later, chill the fuck out .
Nothing you said here makes much sense. If you want to argue it would make more sense to make an actual argument.You keep parroting that "just a software launcher" bullshit so how about you just give me the €300 for Win10?
And really curious that you will play the game in French, German and Russian. All at the same time or multiple playthroughs?
You keep parroting that "just a software launcher" bullshit so how about you just give me the €300 for Win10?
And really curious that you will play the game in French, German and Russian. All at the same time or multiple playthroughs?
You still used that shitty launcher talking point when that is simply not true for some people.uh I was talking about the people harassing and insulting the people at PGI over twitter and facebook and reddit and how they should "chill the fuck out" with that gamer rage over a 1-year exclusive software launcher
You think harassment against a small studio is okay? Because that what was I was complaining about
I'm specifically referring to the chat overhaul to make it more in line with "modern chat clients" and the likeYour examples are... dubious. Valve added their social features in 2007, long before Twitch and Discord became popular. Desura and Impulse never gained traction, which is why they both died a long time ago and certainly had no influence whatsoever on Steam's curation system.
I know it's fun to suggest that Valve only improves their service because of competition but that narrative doesn't fit with reality. Valve has improved Steam based on feedback from its customers. Initially, Steam was highly curated which meant games were accepted and rejected based on arbitrary notions of quality. Indie devs complained that it was too hard to get on Steam so Valve created Greenlight which allowed customers to vote for the games they wanted on the platform. This worked pretty well but indie devs still complained that it was too hard to get on Steam so Valve lowered the requirements for being greenlit. Indie devs continued to complain so Valve replaced Greenlight with Direct and allowed any dev to put their games on Steam for a small fee. Then indie devs complained that it was too easy to get on Steam so their games weren't getting any exposure, so Valve has been working on discovery tools ever since, with the latest being Steam Lab.
Steam has always been a customer-centric service and that's the reason for its success. Conversely, EGS isn't customer-centric at all. Instead of trying to earn customers through superior service, it tries to force people to use it through timed exclusives. Mechwarrior 5 is just another example of that.
Also, Steam's scaling cut isn't exclusive to AAA devs. Any game, indie or otherwise, gets a larger cut based on their revenue. At $10+ million, their cut is 75%. At $50+ million, it's 80%. There are many indie and AA games on Steam that have achieved that.
You still used that shitty launcher talking point when that is simply not true for some people.
And you used additional stuff that gets now added due to the deal (e.g. localization) as a bonus but said Steam features are worthless. Like yeah, maybe for you but just accept that isn't true for everybody. Some people (myself included) get shafted, just so Epic can prop up their store.