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Matthewmatosis - The Last of us Part II Review
- Thread starter ASilentProtagonist
- Start date
- Spoiler
Will watch when I get to work tonight. I loved the game but have been seeking other opinions since I finished and really respect Matthewmatosis, so I'm looking forward to finding out how we compare/contrast on the game.
Yikes. I hate saying that someone probably "missed the point," but this is one context where I feel it applies. The theme of the story is diminished so much if Ellie killed Abby.
Like I can 100% understand if Abby didn't work for people, but feeling the ending should go another way kind of surprises me.
Classic era. Boohoo person talks my fav game bad *fingers in ears* lalalalala I cannot listen to anything.
I think this one deserves a chance and I'm saying that as someone who loves the game. I didn't agree with all of it myself and I know there's a lot of nonsense out there with this game's discourse, but I think this one is actually worth your time and if Naughty Dog were to only listen to one of these critical video essays, this is the one.
He is thorough and gives his opinions in detail. He is good at conveying his viewpoint.
its just he has some really weird ones .....
saying "flashbacks are bad design"
saying Ellie killed all kinds of people and didn't know if some people were mothers or fathers "why would she let abby go?"......
People can give their opinions right?
we can review a reviewer
I agree. Even tho Ellie killed dozens before she got to Abby in the end, there's context to it. I think Ellie's reasons for hunting Abby in beginning are entirely different for her reasons in the end. It isn't so much about duty, purpose, or loyalty to Joel at the end. Its more about peace and her finding some sort of bandage to her mental and emotional wounds.
Her sparing Abby to save her humanity is the most anti nihilistic thing she could do. Hell the whole purpose of the game is about empathy and breaking cycles of vengeance. Not really nihilism is the slightest
There's a particular moment which I disagree with for which he describes as contrived " The lights, open windows, etc" which in the scenario of apocalyptic world shouldn't really happen, but it's been established throughout the game that Ellie herself is completely out of her depth. She's been sheltered most of her life by someone or Jackson, particularly Joel in more recent times who unlike say Joel went through some extreme times so knows what to or not (It's a reason why Jessie get's angry early game as well because Ellie and Dina do something stupid on patrol). For this reason, isn't completely surprising. Throughout the game, she tries to mimic Joel in particular what he thought he'd do but her inexperience is why she completely botches something in a pivotal moment so something basic as lights, open windows after a traumatic event as well along with a whole lot of other things makes it easy to to believe it. It's part of why he likely has a huge issue with the game because Ellie is not meant to be Joel, there's meant to be inconsistencies between the first and second for which why Joel can do what he can while Ellie might not. Ellie hasn't really thought through the consequences of her actions early game but slowly coming to the realization. The pivotal moment is also illustration because it's clear why these experiences have a greater affect to Ellie's personal Journey that to Joel. It's also a massive thing as to the ending game that all these things mount up for which she was never meant to follow Joel's path as well and why people are bothered by some not understanding why Ellie was never meant to kill Abby. All of this is kind of basic stuff, made clear by the fact that Ellie and Joel aren't even the same people even if they shared similar experiences for a while.
If you disagree with his view point after having watched the full video and how he motivates his feelings about it, then that's fine, my post doesn't apply to you.
It's called disagreeing. And yes that's fine but what's embarassing is the instant jerk reaction of a couple people here of skipping ahead instead of actually listening to the thing and thinking through the perspective he lays down. That just seems extremely dumb. If you have no interest in the video that's fine too! But then no need to give your shitty no substance take on it.
One thing I think Matt seems to fundamentally misread is the reasoning why Ellie leaves the guitar behind. His read on Ellie sparing Abby and their duel at the theatre feel off to me as well. Those were my biggest disagreements.
I agree that the plot has way too many contrivances that feel forced. Ellie forgetting the map being the worst one.
I agree that the plot has way too many contrivances that feel forced. Ellie forgetting the map being the worst one.
I think part of the problem here is that while in cut scenes Ellie isn't Joel, she absolutely is as much of a killer when we're playing her, ruthlessly slitting the throats of hundreds of people without breaking a sweat.
"Despite all the nihilistic shit that goes on along the way, there's a nice message here about how helping people leads to happiness in a way that revenge doesn't. Even if you don't believe the world works this way it's good to see stories that encourage us to transcend the emotions which sometimes hold us back."
I disagree with his take on the ending but his points holds solid, I wouldn't argue against it. It's going to depend on what kind of read on the story you have and my perception was different.
Excellent work as always from the best critic in games.
Excellent work as always from the best critic in games.
No that's not it at all, lol.
I've seen plenty of reviews by people who are simply too emotionally invested in fictional characters (compared to myself). After a lot of reviews i'm kind of done with that. Shame he is so late with it.
it sounds more like you are the person you are describing here.
Damn, can't believe The Last of Us Part II is actually Guardians of the Galaxy
Great video, as usual. Anyone who knows Matt's channel knows how critical he can be of games he doesn't like (see: God of War 2018); how he complimented the TLOU 2 is no faint praise.
Regardless of anyone's thoughts on the narrative of the game, and the technology that drives it, it's nice to see a review that goes in depth into the gameplay and why it is so good. It often gets lost in the shuffle and it's in my opinion (as a 'gameplay first' kinda guy) one of the strongest part of the game that is sadly overlooked
Other than some minor complains about lack of player agency and gameplay emergence due to how heavily scripted the game can be, he really liked it and praised several aspects of it, and considers it to be vastly superior to the original.
Regardless of anyone's thoughts on the narrative of the game, and the technology that drives it, it's nice to see a review that goes in depth into the gameplay and why it is so good. It often gets lost in the shuffle and it's in my opinion (as a 'gameplay first' kinda guy) one of the strongest part of the game that is sadly overlooked
Other than some minor complains about lack of player agency and gameplay emergence due to how heavily scripted the game can be, he really liked it and praised several aspects of it, and considers it to be vastly superior to the original.
Gotta say that wasn't one of his best Reviews imo. He is way too hung up about the Flashbacks and seems not to be able to take them for what they are. They are used as a tool to question the Players believes but also to present the similarties between Abby and Ellie. The Zebra Scene for example was a juxtaposition with the Giraffe from the first Game and he kinda just skipped over that.
His Reasoning that you don't care about what is happening in the Flashbacks because you know that Joel is already dead is soo bizarre man. The Review was also weirdly structured because for the most part it was this clear distinction between Gameplay and Story, which is something he doesn't normally do at all. His God of War Analysis was a good Example for that.
Also his Take on the Ending was something...
His Reasoning that you don't care about what is happening in the Flashbacks because you know that Joel is already dead is soo bizarre man. The Review was also weirdly structured because for the most part it was this clear distinction between Gameplay and Story, which is something he doesn't normally do at all. His God of War Analysis was a good Example for that.
Also his Take on the Ending was something...
Why would Ellie killing Abby violate the themes of TLOU2? Ellie is a psychopath who has no redeeming qualities. Her killing Abby, going back home and still feeling like shit, and then shooting herself probably fits better with the character and world.
I am going to have to give this a watch later. I am interested to hear what he has to say on TLOU2.
Considering how you conducted yourself in a number of TLOU2 discussions, I am not sure you are on firm enough footing to call people out on bad faith arguments...
Considering how you conducted yourself in a number of TLOU2 discussions, I am not sure you are on firm enough footing to call people out on bad faith arguments...
You should watch the video even if you disagree.
It's almost like it takes time and thorough contemplation to properly review a 23-hour-long game with a complex story.
Alternatively it might be like watching The Dark Knight and thinking "So wait this billionaire that goes around beating poor people likely putting them in hospital for months, that goes around creating quite significant amounts of destruction everywhere he goes, that takes the law into its own hand, that is willing to use a system that spies on everyone, and that has just spent a good chunk of his time going after a mentally unstable person, draws the line at not killing said mentally unstable person?".
Not that Ellie has ofc any connection with some insane person that goes around creating massive amounts of violence and leaving destruction in its wake only to then come to the end and leave the person that they were really after "alone", after all unlike Ellie, at least batman technically didn't kill anyone.
Great to hear in that regard. I find the combat encounter design to be excellent.
Sad to hear he disagrees with me about the story though. I truly thought the game managed to top the first in regards to narrative.
It's not even a negative review. There are many elements he praises, but his big problem was that major story beats didn't work for him. They did for me, and as such I'm holding the game in higher regard than he does. But I enjoyed watching this as much as the more postive takes from the likes of Girlfriend Reviews, Just Write and Noah Caldwell-Gervais.
Jokes aside, a Guardians of the Galaxy type of game from Naughty Dog would be kind of awesome, wouldn't it?
Either that or Cowboy Bebop, these are the only types of sci-fi I'm willing to accept from them, a Mass Effect style space opera would be such a waste.
So weird that people comment on videos they haven't seen, yet take one sentence summations of their themes for granted.
or the opposite with people who didnt like the game skipping to the end of reviews hoping reviewers are on their side
i didnt love the game and stopped engaging with the content/reviews a while ago, but im surprised literally nothing has changed in the weeks since. also surprised reviews are still being posted right now where it just feels late to me, would make more sense a few months down the line when feelings have settled and maybe they've revisited the first game over and really mulled over the two
Did you watch his review to hear his explanation or are you hung up on YouTuber's wishing ellie killed abby because abby killed joel?
Ah yes, the mortality of Ellie, murderer of hundreds without batting an eye.
My dude this thread has people openly saying they didn't watch the video in full but still had to share how bad the take in the video was and then additionally there is people that didn't watch the video at all and took those comments at face value to also agree how bad the take in the video was. And yes I'm making fun of that cause it deserves to be made fun of given how toxic it makes review threads with people doing the same with written reviews and scores. It's 100% people butthurt that someone dares to have a negative/opposite view on a piece of fiction.
I'm arguing for people to either not watch the video cause they actually have no interest and thus will have nothing of value to contribute or watch the video in full then disagree. What are you arguing for sir?
i have not played the game yet so i can't say anything about it specifically, but can people not find different themes and messages in games than others do, including ones not intended by the designers? otherwise criticism itself would be rather pointless.
Pretty much where I'm at.
I know some fans of the game here are vary of video essays of this game, I totally get that. There's so much garbage out there that's poisoned discourse for this game. But this is an incredibly fair review that respects the developers and their intentions, even if he doesn't agree with all of it. And its also short and not some three-hour barely edited "video essay" that has become the bread and butter of videogame analysis on youtube.
And honestly its a lot more positive than I expected considering how critical Matt can be. If you want to see how critical he can be, the God of War one was actually brutal.
It would certainly be interesting. Whatever the Naughty Gods work on next, I'm 100% on board. Well, that would be the TLOU2 multiplayer, but the thing after that too! :)
Wether you agree or disagree with his take on the game and the story (I personally agree with some of it and disagree with some of it), immediately dismissing one of Matthew's videos, when he's one of the few Youtubers that constantly delivers incredibly well put together Essays/Analysis/Reviews, is...really fucking weird, in my opinion.
Disagree with his take on the story and the player's involvement in it and the take on the ending but fair review overall. Matthewmatosis is always a good watch.
Love the game but some of yall need to quit being so dismissive, there are an endless amount of shitty, gamergate reviews where that energy is better spent.
This isn't even a negative review lol
Love the game but some of yall need to quit being so dismissive, there are an endless amount of shitty, gamergate reviews where that energy is better spent.
This isn't even a negative review lol
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Well, actually i don't have to do anything.
But i might give it a try tomorrow. Go to sleep now 🥴
In fact: i'll watch it tomorrow. Promise.
Certainly agree with this.
Matthewmatosis: around 10 mins of complex thoughts on why Ellie not killing Abbey didn't ring true for him personally.
Posters who haven't watched any of said minutes: Obviously he didn't understand the game.
Posters who haven't watched any of said minutes: Obviously he didn't understand the game.