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Matt Piscatella, “ The great PC distribution platform wars of 2019 did not do consumer spending on PC content any favors”
- Thread starter Arthands
- Start date
It's the equivalent of having to load up a different UI on your PS4/XBO and then suddenly no longer having access to your PSN/Xbox Live friends lists, trophies/achievements, the guide, etc. That would surely be annoying no? When you play a PS4/XBO game, you just expect to have all those features as standard as they're integrated in to the console UI/OS. And it's the exact same with Steam - it has all those featues as standard in every game on their store as part of their Steam integration. Suddenly if a game is exclusive to another launcher, you lose all that stuff and you're in a different ecosystem.
As a couch PC gamer who uses Steam Big Picture Mode, it makes things less plug and play. But luckily I can add games from other launchers to steam using SteamGridDB Manager and UWPHook, but it's obviously a little more hassle than if everything was just on Steam itself.
You have separate friends lists on every app for multiplayer and have to keep up with lots of accounts. Additionally the Game Pass app comes with extremely restrictive DRM that restricts access to the game folder which prevents modding.
I can't help thinking that PC is now more closely aligned to the console cycle than ever before, so more likely to be affected by the down part of the cycle. There are just so many interlocking factors now.
its a lot of upkeep between different storefronts since none of the services are unified. sometimes gaming on one service prevents you from playing with people who have a different version on another storefront. sometimes mods are configured to work with this version of a game on a storefront, but not the other. things like family share and controller support are hugely absent from other storefronts. there are a lot of things that make you question if having your games strewn across different services is worth the hassle. I have at least 8 launchers on my gaming pc. this is the kind of experience that pushes people back to piracy. its not convenient, at all.
But what about games like Red Dead Redemption or Control, that I want to buy, but since its (or was) exclusive to EGS I'm not buying any time soon?
Free games are amazing but 1)most are indies; 2) Old games; 3) Not the ones I want.
In 2019 I spent much less than 2017/2018. It was thanks to Gamepass and EGS moneyhats
Lmao if insulting a nebulous "someone" by implying they're stupid is ableist, everyone on this forum is ableist. Maybe you're reading too much into it, my dude.
The drooling mouth breather is not a stand in for someone who is intellectually disabled, though it's interesting that's where your mind went.
Console game sales are down too, makes sense. EGS had a pretty good year so it's not a problem.
I see GamePass reducing the amount of sales though. I sure don't buy games that are on GamePass (and I would have otherwise bought fantastic titles like Forza Horizon 4).
I see GamePass reducing the amount of sales though. I sure don't buy games that are on GamePass (and I would have otherwise bought fantastic titles like Forza Horizon 4).
I'm shocked that so many on era like this narrative and decided to accept it based on zero evidence. Shocked!
(Someone's going to reply to this about sales being down. I know they are. You just can't possibly know every reason for that and I'm not really interested in hearing you conjecture)
(Someone's going to reply to this about sales being down. I know they are. You just can't possibly know every reason for that and I'm not really interested in hearing you conjecture)
This is the first clear indication that a) contrary to popular belief, customers didn't blindly "follow the games" and b) customer backlash against Epic isn't originating from a small minority of hardcores that complain on forums but is in fact large enough to cause a noteworthy platform-wide drop in consumer spending.
This is an intellectually dishonest take I see a lot around here:
Free games is competition.
Exclusive deals are competition.
Taking a lower cut is competition.
They're all measures taken to gain stronger control of the finite market that them and their competitors operate it in. They're also measures that aren't unique to gaming.
You might not like the way they do it and thats fine, but saying they are not 'competing' is completely wrong.
I would say at this point EGS has reached an acceptable level of features that I would consider it a perfectly fine place to play your games. Its big downside at this point is the lack of linux support. I think steam has around 500k linux users so that's shutting out a lot of people.
I think Gamepass is being overstated for this reason. I don't really see the value on PC. I can understand ultimate on console but on PC, it dilutes this further.
EGS isn't even on my radar other than the Fortnite launcher with free games.
Steam primarily continues to be a super robust piece of software which makes my life so much easier.
Something which some might consider minor but.....
I was letting one of the kids play Gary's Mod (Murder/Prop hunt) and while he was playing, I was on my phone on the workshop page subscribing to mods and immediately had the notification in the game as they were downloading.
EGS isn't even on my radar other than the Fortnite launcher with free games.
Steam primarily continues to be a super robust piece of software which makes my life so much easier.
Something which some might consider minor but.....
I was letting one of the kids play Gary's Mod (Murder/Prop hunt) and while he was playing, I was on my phone on the workshop page subscribing to mods and immediately had the notification in the game as they were downloading.
Platform Wars?
2019 was the opening scuffle, a brief skirmish. It was the declaration of hostilities and not much more. You think Epic and Steam are done taking potshots at each other?
Both are in this for the long haul. They're just getting started.
2019 was the opening scuffle, a brief skirmish. It was the declaration of hostilities and not much more. You think Epic and Steam are done taking potshots at each other?
Both are in this for the long haul. They're just getting started.
Ahhh ok. I get it. I just assumed all that stuff on PC could be done and was done through other apps. Didn't realise all those features were locked down depending on where you bought the game. That's stupid.
Mat: Here is a reason that PC sales are down this year.
Many people in this thread: There are other reasons!!
Many people in this thread: There are other reasons!!
Can you even talk with other people while you are playing different games in EGS now? And I mean easily from inside the game, not using Discord.
Unless I missed something, it was more like Epic ravenously screaming at Valve and banging at the gate with nary an acknowledgment or reaction from their side.
Valve did nothing, it was all on Epic. What Epic didnt expect was GamePass hitting PC, which is the real deal here.
Yes, but it was more than that. They were able to disrupt the scene by moneyhatting games requiring people to change where they normally purchase PC games. They stop a lot of discounts from various places until recently (GMG, keys) and then they started giving away free games on a monthly basis. Those games are free for us, but they come only due to backroom deals between Epic and the publisher/devs.
Valve did nothing, they just waited and they really didn't need to do anything. They are still the market. Epic is the newcomer, doing whatever they can to make waves, and they definitely have, but not enough for Valve/Steam to care.
Then MS jump in with the PC Gamepass, and stole quite a bit of their thunder. Tons of games, cheaply priced subs, especially if you jumped on the errors (.05$ a day) and more games coming every month.
Yeah, the PC gaming scene was really all over the place in 2019.
While everyone was fighting about Epic and Steam, Microsoft slipped in and introduced the best value in gaming.
Valve barely did or said anything directed at Epic while Timmy was shouting from the rooftops declaring himself the chosen one of PC Gaming and smearing them at twitter.
There are a couple of weirdo journalists and trolls who want to paint the situation as some kind of war going on between the two.
Valve is just trucking along doing their own thing.
Not surprised. EGS has been giving tons of big games away. Also for the past few years there have been far fewer great deals on digital games (especially on Steam). Many big titles are staying in the $10+ range or having 25-66% off sales instead of $5 and under and 75-85% off.
I only buy digital games because they're cheap, or it's the only way to play. All of my impulse Steam sale purchases were because the game went on sale for almost nothing. I'm simply not going to take a chance on games that don't go on deep discount. For example Gris looks interesting but there's no way I'd drop $10+ on it. That's a game I'd take a chance on for $5.
Luckily for now we have a good deal in Game Pass PC. In fact I waited and what do you know, Gris was just added to the catalogue. With the XGP deals I loaded up and for a reasonably cheap price I'll be able to ignore Steam and other platforms for another couple of years. Thing is, there will never be a make-up for those lost sales - unless it's a truly incredible game I want to own, I'm just going to play on Game Pass and never purchase.
I only buy digital games because they're cheap, or it's the only way to play. All of my impulse Steam sale purchases were because the game went on sale for almost nothing. I'm simply not going to take a chance on games that don't go on deep discount. For example Gris looks interesting but there's no way I'd drop $10+ on it. That's a game I'd take a chance on for $5.
Luckily for now we have a good deal in Game Pass PC. In fact I waited and what do you know, Gris was just added to the catalogue. With the XGP deals I loaded up and for a reasonably cheap price I'll be able to ignore Steam and other platforms for another couple of years. Thing is, there will never be a make-up for those lost sales - unless it's a truly incredible game I want to own, I'm just going to play on Game Pass and never purchase.
I slowed down on buying games this year but I think it was mostly due to having access to Gamepass and the plethora of free games given out this year.
I have EGS solely for the free games. I refuse to buy games on the platform but I will take the freebies.
I have EGS solely for the free games. I refuse to buy games on the platform but I will take the freebies.
I didn't buy some games like borderlands 3 in 2019 because of the Epic exclusivity, but now I don't even feel like playing it when it launches on Steam so I probably won't buy it at all or with a very steep discount.
I also haven't bought a handful of Indies because I didn't want to make another account on a different service. For me having multiple accounts is worse than another launcher.
I also haven't bought a handful of Indies because I didn't want to make another account on a different service. For me having multiple accounts is worse than another launcher.
This really is the wave imo. A lot of pc users tend to wait for deals (im talking out of my ass w only anecdotal proof so i may be completely wrong), and alternatives like game pass or (and this is a weird way of thinking to me?) the possibility that it may appear free on egs really just feels like an extension of this.
With options like this, the amount of units sold will drop for sure, but i feel like the the amnt gamepass/epic pay out is pretty opaque and would like to see how the devs/pubs are making out when participating in these things
But i gotta say i cant relate to the waiting for it to go free on egs thing, like that seems kind of nuts to me unless there is a pattern to it that im missing
Also, enjoy gris! I thought it was fantastic
I wonder how initiatives like EGS Free Games and GP "penny subscription" will affect consumer habits in a mid-long term.
I can understand the reasoning for them to take this approach and of course that consumers will take advantage of it but if they keep following this route longer I wonder how they expect to make consumers get back on spending track on theirs, or others, ecosystems when they got used to play good games spenting nothing or close to nothing for so long.
I can understand the reasoning for them to take this approach and of course that consumers will take advantage of it but if they keep following this route longer I wonder how they expect to make consumers get back on spending track on theirs, or others, ecosystems when they got used to play good games spenting nothing or close to nothing for so long.
^ i want to say it will inevitably shift towards the services; that just as the cd/mp3 have essentially died to streaming, so will ownership of games, especially as technology advances to deliver games more fluidly and on-demand. Ppl shit on stadia and it's unpreparedness, but i dont think google is worried; they know that they are situated at a certain point and while the tech/consumers arent rdy yet, they are still positioned for what's to come in 5-10 years.
Someone actually posted a clarification on this earlier in the thread:
His quote is not specifically referring to the EGS.
I already saw that tweet. What other platform would he be talking about?
Bethesda now has a launcher. Rockstar now has a launcher. Microsoft launched Game Pass. Google launched Stadia. EGS is now a thing. PC has far more places to buy and play games than it used to, and it's likely to only get more fragmented. Just Game Pass alone was likely highly disruptive.
Price isn't the only metric that benefits a consumer. Even then, giving away free games is nice, but new games that are exclusive to EGS are often more expensive because there are no competing storefronts to drive the price down. I don't have the chart at hand, but you can look at isthereanydeal to see this. The existence of services like GMG and GOG and humble bundle that all provide different deals on new games usually mean that you can get steam keys cheaper than the $60 you see on steam. Not the case with EGS.
Beyond that, price alone isn't always a given factor. Let me give you a very simple example that's the most extreme case to demonstrate the point. You own an Xbox because you prefer the controller layout. PlayStation announces a campaign where all new third party games are $1 off. Technically, it is a cheaper price. Would you switch over to PlayStation? Probably not, right? So maybe there are factors beyond pure price that affect buying decisions. Maybe features also matter. For example, Steam recently started offering a PC cafe program where Internet cafe owners can buy mass group licenses to games at a reasonable price so that they can operate.
Finally, another point. Instead of taking down steam, EGS is likely to hurt smaller stores like GOG. Steam can push back since they have a big war chest. Smaller stores, less so. The dumb "competition is always good for the consumer" argument is a capitalist free market buzzword that can end up with big players swallowing smaller competitors and in the long run reducing options for users. Sometimes it is a good thing because it dismantles a monopoly, sometimes it is not. People often complain that there are too many TV streaming services and they end up having to pay too much to watch the things you want. If you abide by the mantra, more services would mean it's always better for the customer, but thats clearly not the case. Too much fragmentation takes away options from customers in that case. It's a case by case basis, not a mantra to live by.
Every time, in every EGS thread, in almost every page, we get posts like this. Despite people explaining multiple times each page on each thread, people refuse to listen or learn. This always ends up detailing these threads, and moss almost never do something about it. No wonder the PC community is mostly gone from this site.
User banned (3 days): drive-by trolling, previously warned for same reason
"The great PC distribution platform wars of 2019" that was waged entirely by people with paper mache Gaben shrines in their closets against an imaginary enemy. Truly a battle for the ages.
They're more like Kroger or Safeway. Epic's still bigger and has the backing of a major tech company.
Honestly, I've shifted stance on valve. I used to be in the "what does valve do" camp, but I've been using features such as co op remote play and streaming to my iPad. Valve may be slow to do things, but there is value that no other storefront has.
We've seen what happened with TV and Movies. People went from buying ala carte with VHS, DVD, Blu-ray, etc. and now everything is pretty much a month access fee through Disney+, Hulu, Netflix, etc. Music also moved to this model as well. It's very likely we see a similar transition for gaming. When everything is digital most people would probably rather pay a monthly fee to access a huge library of games than to buy ala carte for a much higher price. Certainly it would be much more attractive for an audience that bought physical and then traded games back in to buy new games.