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Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Harm I can understand but getting mad that someone wants to humiliate the ghouls is just so asinine. Although, I remember the liberals getting mad when Rep. Waters advocated for direct action against the people who were putting kids and families in cages.
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
Oh come on. I know you're better at interpreting context and intention than that
Not when it comes to literally anything left leaning or even worse, leftist media which he finds all of it to be utterly abhorrent and evil and stupid.

He's also wrong IRT the Chapo reddit, they're on "thin ice" due to a week long shitposting attempt to showcase the hypocritical nature of the reddit admins who banned a moderator on their sub for posting a "kill every slave owner" thread with a gif from the Chappelle's Show (to which the punchline literally is "I guess killing a slave owner is only funny to me and Neil").
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,657
This is precisely the reason why Chapo sucks. (and also why their subreddit is on thin ice re: advocating violence.) He actively wants to harm or humiliate his political enemies. He is not denying this, he is openly admitting to it.
To be fair, at a certain point it's not really about politics, it's about racists and sexists, people who regardless of their political ideologies socially want to drag us backwards at the expense of everyone who doesn't share their gender or skin color or sexuality or whatever else they see as different.
 

Deleted member 4367

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,226
I just can't see a path to victory for the left through violence.

Like what specific acts of violence do you see helping?
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
If your choice of fascists to beat to a pulp begins with Douthat then you have a limp imagination. Maybe these two dorks got in a fight over the last slice of pizza. They should just get on with their hair pulling and ineffectual slap fight
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,752
I just can't see a path to victory for the left through violence.

Like what specific acts of violence do you see helping?
it really isn't possible in the US because

a) government armed the pigs with DOJ surplus
b) things are not bad enough for the majority to join in

Give it 2-3 generations and it will be inevitable.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Oh come on. I know you're better at interpreting context and intention than that
Yes, I can interpret context and intention. And it's plainly laid out.
I really hate Ross. A lot of people don't hate him, I hate him. I hate him deeply. I hate 'em all, I really do, I hate the trad-caths…my hate is pure, in the Alexander Cockburn sense, I really do hate them all. I can't not hate them. Like, I look at them, I read them, and I don't feel that kind of like "oh, this guy's funny cause he's stupid", I just, I hate 'em. Maybe that's bad, I shouldn't hate them, maybe that proves that there's some sort of dark heart within me, y'know…I'm like Lenin, y'know, give me control of the state and I'm going to start doing purges, and, y'know, creating the fuckin' cheka…but I don't think that's true, these people do genuine harm to the world, and me wanting to kill them, or at least see them deeply humiliated, is me standing up for humanity. I think…I hope.
"These People" is Ross Douhat, in response to Douhat disliking both May and Corbyn. If this was an antifa style thing in response to actual violence I'd at least understand the desire to go "ok if they want to use violence we must respond as a necessity" I'd totally understand. But this isn't that.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
That is the monstrousness that I can't abide! To think that there are people in this world who accept that, and think that's how it should be! That you should condemn people, in millions, and billions, to torment, and agony, and death, and fear, and loneliness, because you need to have everything, because you were born with everything! The vile maxim…the vile maxim…Adam Smith's vile fucking maxim. ["All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind." — Adam Smith]
Yeah this is me basically.
This notion that violence is somehow abhorrent and should never be used is so infuriating, when your opponents use it every fucking day against you.

Black people suffering at the hands of law enforcement and the justice system is violence.
People dying from lack of healthcare is violence.
People losing their jobs and homes is violence.
Condemning people to a life of debt and wage slavery is violence.
Women dying from back-alley abortions is violence.
Destroying the fucking planet, is violence.

Conservatives are literally and actively killing off poor people and ruining the earth for profit. If ruining billions of lives is somehow more acceptable to you than an emotional response by the common man, maybe rethink your priorities.
And this. "Violence is wrong, except the banal, every day violence perpetrated by the capitalist order and the global market, that's normal and shouldn't be changed." People have an understandable distaste for personal violence but no comprehension or cognizance of systemic violence.
 

Suiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,931
This thread is making me want to quit posting with a community i've been with for over 15 years.
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
Yes, I can interpret context and intention. And it's plainly laid out.

"These People" is Ross Douhat, in response to Douhat disliking both May and Corbyn. If this was an antifa style thing in response to actual violence I'd at least understand the desire to go "ok if they want to use violence we must respond as a necessity" I'd totally understand. But this isn't that.
Dude holy shit like how do you not draw the byline from "I hate 'em all, I really do, I hate the trad-caths"

And not recognize that is clearly the primal direction of the vitriol to his point. Which is like, a central tenant of their program, their visceral hatred of the Bush and WASP subset of slow witted monsters who go glassy eyed when thinking about anything other than nuking Iran.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
And this. "Violence is wrong, except the banal, every day violence perpetrated by the capitalist order and the global market, that's normal and shouldn't be changed." People have an understandable distaste for personal violence but no comprehension or cognizance of systemic violence.
The banal ones are alright since they are means tested
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
He's not talking about actual evil. He's set off on a rant about how much he hates someone and wants to harm and humiliate them because the other guy doesn't like Jeremy Corbyn, The motivation isn't about fighting evil, it's about a desire for dominance.

He is talking about actually evil. Like Bronx-Man said, we are witnessing the rise of fascism, again. They are putting children in cages. They are treating women as less than human. They are talking about "white genocide" and shooting up mosques, shooting up synagogues, killing people in the streets.

And you and your ilk are too fucking prissy to be bothered, too hung up on civility and maintaining the status quo to really act. Your liberal incrementalism, your unwillingness to change the systems that are accelerating these atrocities, are enabling fascism to win. And it is winning as of right now.
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
This thread is making me want to quit posting with a community i've been with for over 15 years.
Then do it.

If you're going to make a point to draw attention to yourself to do it then just do it. If you dislike socialist voices at the table that much then don't participate, nobody is making you and if it makes you that uncomfortable then walk away.
 

Suiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,931
User banned (3 days): mod whining, history of similar behavior
Libshit opnions like this is one of the reasons we're fucked until it gets so bad that actual revolutions have to happen.

People they rail against already advocate for violence and cause it with their policies.

So, this deserves only a SINGLE DAY ban?

What the fuck is wrong with this forum?
 

Ortix

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,438
Dude holy shit like how do you not draw the byline from "I hate 'em all, I really do, I hate the trad-caths"

And not recognize that is clearly the primal direction of the vitriol to his point. Which is like, a central tenant of their program, their visceral hatred of the Bush and WASP subset of slow witted monsters who go glassy eyed when thinking about anything other than nuking Iran.

He's not saying that about nazis, he's saying that about anyone who disagrees with any of his opinions. He's a moron at best, and seeing people openly expressing their admiration on here is just very concerning.
 

Sou Da

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
4f2f29a1-9b13-48ba-8965-3d622bf1cd3f.png
 

Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
Liberals would rather have fascism than abandon the systems of inequality, racial, economic, and gender-based, which give them their privilege. My god we are fucked.
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
He's not saying that about nazis, he's saying that about anyone who disagrees with any of his opinions. He's a moron at best, and seeing people openly expressing their admiration on here is just very concerning.
If you've ever listened to, IDK, literally anything else the guy has said about this topic then you'd be able to parse pretty clearly what he's talking about and why. You're launching attacks at any leftist media outlet, political personality, and journalist PRECISELY proving the point illustrated here because there is a dedicated contingent on ERA that does precisely that constantly.

And moreover, even if it is "anybody who disagrees with me" that's LITERALLY politics and the way we move forward in society. You either get the people who disagree with you to go away or you humiliate and debase and attack them until you win.

Fascism arises because of the collapse of institutional legitimacy of liberal institutions. That's how we got trump and that's what we're gonna get what's coming next after him, that's gonna be even worse, because if you think that there's not gonna be more ecological and economic catastrophes in the future that liberalism is wholly unsuited to fucking deal with and that that failure is not gonna lead to fascism filling that fucking hole, you've got another thing coming. And that's what these guys are. These guys who marched in Charlottesville, these are the people who are aware of the unspoken premise of the sort of zombie neoliberalism that we're living in which is that we're coming at a point that there's gonna be ecological catastrophe and it's going to either require mass redistribution of the ill-gotten gains of the first world or genocide. And these are the first people who have basically said, "Well if thats the choice I choose genocide." And they're getting everybody else ready, intellectually and emotionally, for why that's gonna be ok when it happens. Why they're not really people. When we're putting all this money into more fucking walls and drones and bombs and guns to keep them away so we can watch them die with clear consciences because we've been loaded with the ideology that these guys are now starting to express publicly. On the other side of them you have people who are saying in full fucking voice, "No, we have the resources to save everybody, to give everybody a decent and worthwhile existence," and that is what we want, and that is the fucking real difference between these two. And you can tell that to the next asshole who says they're two sides of the same coin.


*looks at primary polls*

Yeah, seems like it.
I mean at some point we call a horse a horse here.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Like I don't know how you read all that and think "this is clearly about his beef one guy and not the gestalt of his attitude and perspective about justice and equality in the world."

It digs deep into some fundamental philosophy with regards to the human condition most people don't think about in their lives, which is that no one chooses how they were born and who they become is strongly influenced by who and where they were born. This is a basic absurdity of life, that we should condemn people to death and suffering because they were born to the wrong parents in the wrong place.
You're shot out of oblivion, into consciousness, and you will either be cursed or blessed based on the whims of genes and geography. And that is that.
a world where every life that is brought into being without its consent

In some ways this is a vaguely spiritualist interpretation of birth, maybe motivated by whatever religion he has had, the idea that "we" exist in potentia in some out-of-world dimension, and we are ripped out of that and forced into a body without our "consent". He's talking about souls.

This is actually really close to my philosophy as well so it's very familiar to me.
 

corasaur

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,988
This rant reads like a gateway drug for tankiness. "Gulags are ok because the right people are being brutalized."

I guess chapo really is smoldering garbage
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
Yes, I can interpret context and intention. And it's plainly laid out.

"These People" is Ross Douhat, in response to Douhat disliking both May and Corbyn. If this was an antifa style thing in response to actual violence I'd at least understand the desire to go "ok if they want to use violence we must respond as a necessity" I'd totally understand. But this isn't that.

Did you watch the video? He clearly breaks from the angry rant into a tangent. He likely includes Douhat as part of the problem but he's speaking on a much bigger topic.

If you actually listened to chapo they've wavered on support for Corbin so I doubt it's entirely about that. Even if it is you're focusing on the least important part of the video and making a judgement on that.

How do you feel about the rest of the video if the Douhat intro was removed?
 

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Chapo's main brand is catharsis, they're not as insightful as genuine news discussion podcasts like Citations Needed but they are specifically a strike back at the notion that politics still has to be polite when your leaders are locking children in concentration camps. They're mainly focused on the parasocial aspect of it, a way to ensure leftists don't feel utterly alone in their ideologies. And it helps that they're genuinely very funny.

And they've managed to do all that while creating a fanbase and subreddit that is the exact opposite.
 

Ortix

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,438
what do they want then? because as far as I can tell they are perfectly ok with letting the right run us over as many times as they like.

They want to improve the living situation of millions of underprivileged people. They want to fight for women's rights, lgbt right and racial equality. Someone not vowing to send political opponents to the gulag doesn't take anything away from that.
 

Sai

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,622
Chicago
I don't understand seeing this as beautiful, a good thing. or any sort of recommendation for the trash that is Chapo Trap House.

This is precisely the reason why Chapo sucks. (and also why their subreddit is on thin ice re: advocating violence.) He actively wants to harm or humiliate his political enemies. He is not denying this, he is openly admitting to it.

He gets angry at Douhat because Douhat believes Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn are awful. This should not be a controversial opinion - both have well-documented issues. But to him, rejection of a guy like Corbyn is tantamount to blasphemy, and sets him off on this rant about how much he hates Douhat and how he wants to see him purged from the planet or humiliated. That is the base impulse that is driving his motivations here. He talks about a "racial holy war" but this guy wants to have a different kind of holy war where the non-believers are all forced to bow before his ideology.

LOL

*children being kidnapped from parents*
*abortion rights being stripped away*
*neo-nazis marching in the streets and KILLING people*

"I am in HORROR at the thought of wanting to harm and/or humilate our political opponents!"

We're fucking doomed, man.

 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
And they've managed to do all that while creating a fanbase and subreddit that is the exact opposite.
I hate that I have to play defense for this shit that I don't even like (don't really find them funny) that much simply because there's a subsection that's incapable of dealing with it's very existence.

If there was a decent Ancom comedy podcast tho
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,285
Motherfucker why don't I ever get drunk like that. I can hardly speak under the influence.
 

Cruxist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,820
Chapo is something I regularly listen to weekly but am pretty conflicted about it. There are times I feel it's unarguably valuable and times when I feel like it really hurts "the discourse," whatever that is anymore. I'm glad it exists, but damn, sometimes it frustrates me to no end.

Still, a pretty good rant overall.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
He is talking about actually evil. Like Bronx-Man said, we are witnessing the rise of fascism, again. They are putting children in cages. They are treating women as less than human. They are talking about "white genocide" and shooting up mosques, shooting up synagogues, killing people in the streets.

And you and your ilk are too fucking prissy to be bothered, too hung up on civility and maintaining the status quo to really act. Your liberal incrementalism, your unwillingness to change the systems that are accelerating these atrocities, are enabling fascism to win. And it is winning as of right now.
That people might not trust that the answer to an ideology fueled by a reactionary conservative response to the decline straight while male homogeny is a guy who's got an incredibly sketchy record (at best) on issues regarding a minority group should be understandable, not provoke a response of "All who oppose us should be destroyed."

This is driven by hatred, hatred of black people, jewish people, gay people. Hatred driven by their fear of the other. Hatred driven be mediocre men upset that they didn't get what they felt they deserved in a world where just being a white guy is no longer enough to guarantee you a middle class life if you don't fuck up. It's the fundamental dark heart of humanity that's driving this.

They are trying to roll back protections and establish dominance over those they hate. They need to be stopped. But that doesn't mean that mirroring their worldview where you need to make sure your favored group replaces the humans at Animal Farm is the answer.
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
They want to improve the living situation of millions of underprivileged people. They want to fight for women's rights, lgbt right and racial equality. Someone not vowing to send political opponents to the gulag doesn't take anything away from that.
Then it's a good thing that at no point in that rant does he ever say "I'd send them to the gulags". He uses the Lenin analogy to point that Lenin harbored a deeply rooted anger and hate towards the world that he used the purges to justify. He's not saying "I would murder my opponents" he's saying "Trad-Caths are vile people that do material harm to others in a tangible, verifiable manner, I don't think it makes me a bad person for having a part of me that wants to kill them or thinks they'd deserve to die at worst, but at least to be summarily humiliated". He then talks about how everybody deserves an equal chance.
i love how they've even turned their "yall cant behave" moment into a meme
Peak shitposting really, you have to respect the hustle.
 
Oct 27, 2017
492
Chapo is something I regularly listen to weekly but am pretty conflicted about it. There are times I feel it's unarguably valuable and times when I feel like it really hurts "the discourse," whatever that is anymore. I'm glad it exists, but damn, sometimes it frustrates me to no end.

Still, a pretty good rant overall.

Exactly how I feel too. I listen to it on and off a few times a month and it can be pretty cathartic to listen to them rail against whatever garbage the Trump administration has done recently. Its like I need it to purge all the frustration.

But I also find them almost unbearably snarky , to the point were I have to switch it off sometimes.
 

gaogaogao

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,679
They want to improve the living situation of millions of underprivileged people. They want to fight for women's rights, lgbt right and racial equality. Someone not vowing to send political opponents to the gulag doesn't take anything away from that.
they made abortion illegal in 2019.
 
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