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Matt Booty (Xbox): Our titles for the next year or two will not be next gen exclusive
- Thread starter spam musubi
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"It's for core console players.... They care about making Games... attractive enough that you join the ecosystem via the device of your choice".
Missing the point of contention here, ZhugeEX. What Booty said is effectively that xbox series x is going to be no more than an xbox one x mark 2 for at least a year. Next gen? It's on hold. Maybe that's good enough for some people, but I doubt it as it's not what we expect from a new gen. We only just had a console that plays xbox one games but better 2 years ago. Who really wants more of that for the first year or two of a new gen? No exclusives? That's wack.
Next gen excitement is all about experiencing new things, impossible things you couldn't before, you want your mind blown with things that make you throw money at the screen for the next 12 or 18 months. Same games but shinier ain't why people jump to next gen. Can't look at this cold like some some statto all by the numbers, spreadsheets and box ticking don't tell you why people hunger for a successive generation. These new console got bags of potential for all of this with proper CPUs at long, long last and crazy fast SSDs as standard... factors that open up all kinds of doors in designing new experiences and offering new possibilities. It doesn't have to be *every* 1P game, but how does anyone come to the conclusion that you don't need even a single exclusive there at launch, one or two more in the window, and a few more filling out the first year. Is Matrick back at Microsoft or something? 'Cause this seems backwards and self-defeating af.
Graphics scale well, great, that's nice. But new gen, new hardware, new possibilities, new games... new exclusive games for the new box.
Not the speed of the ps4, but the speed of the worst possible case HDD the game might be installed on. Games are designed within the limits of the lowest common denominator. On ps4 devkits, there's a "shit HDD" mode. It doesn't even replicate the worst performance of a HDD Sony had installed in their machines at the factory, but the worst one someone might have bought and installed as a replacement themselves. The game was designed in a way that it had to be as performant on an OG ps4 with one of these piss poor HDDs or a pro with an SSD. Same game, same experience for everyone. Certainly nothing to do with the physical dimensions of a city, that makes no logical sense, it's all about pulling data from storage and being able to use it quick enough to realise the game on screen. This is absolutely where next gen games can and will blow away this tired old gen 8.
I'm a Xbox fanboy, invested into the Xbox 'ecosystem'. But... if Series X doesn't deliver and I'm gonna be screwed for two years with all that jaguar cpu crap I'll jump ship without hesitation. I want games to get advantage of the new tecnology since day one, not all of them, but give me some incentives, not just more resolution or fps.
Besides a better pixel count, I have a hard time seeing how other gamers on the PS4 Pro and PS4 have issues taking each other online. The experience is the same regardless of hardware SKU. Otherwise I feel like this industry would have put this on the spotlight 4 years ago. Same with the One/S/X!
Have low-end PCs held back PC gaming? It's a natural progression. Booty even says he's talking about the next 1-2 years, which for cross-gen games and minor-at-best gaming leaps is pretty par for the course. People who share the same concerns as you for some reason only seem to share them re: Xbox, yet games are far more likely to be "held back" by low-end PCs without SSDs given the rumours about PS5s/XSXs SSDs being a big deal.
I'd also wager the majority of the concern shown shares a large overlap with the majority of users on this forum being PS-leaning, so I'm not sure what they're worried about given what MS chooses to do with exclusives won't impact PS exclusives. If you're all so gung-ho about new exclusives pushing the limits forward, great, PS exclusives can do just that as they're under no obligation to release on PC or prior consoles. The same argument can't be made for third party as they've always had to cater to the lower end for PC anyway in most cases.
As Zhuge says, it's all about Gamepass now. MS could see no discernible increase in console sales over last gen and not really care so long as GP subs are on the rise, and given they now have a plethora of studios that in a year or so will allow them to pump out at least a first party game every ~3 months or so it's not an unfair guess to say subs will likely grow.
So many people can't imagine what a jump in tech should bring anymore because we've been so dulled and numb to new games for the last decade. Nothing interesting happens anymore.
That is supposed to change with next-gen hardware. New possibilites, new scopes, new appreciation for how great games can be. Nope, here's your 4K toggle on your new system. Welcome to next-gen.
It's not diminishing returns. It's prioritising things that can be scaled - like resolution. Instead of cool new amazing shit. NOT RTX shadows ffs.
It's like they don't want to make those new amazing games but keep pumping out the same old style of games.
That is supposed to change with next-gen hardware. New possibilites, new scopes, new appreciation for how great games can be. Nope, here's your 4K toggle on your new system. Welcome to next-gen.
It's not diminishing returns. It's prioritising things that can be scaled - like resolution. Instead of cool new amazing shit. NOT RTX shadows ffs.
It's like they don't want to make those new amazing games but keep pumping out the same old style of games.
I like the idea, but they are limiting themselves and what 3rd parties can do. They are going to have to work within the boundaries of the previous gen when creating games. Its not that the One X is a weak machine, its just that they wont be able to really lean into the new features (whatever they may be) or increased power if they are making ALL games compatible with old hardware. I appreciate that they want to make sure that non early adopters dont feel left behind.... but this seems like a bad dev plan for a new console.... specially when they have so much to make up for from the previous gen mistakes and lack of content
This is smart if MS can pull of thier games with them scaling well, which j imagine they've done. PC has shown that next gen games are not held back due to hardware. So the same can apply for consoles if the mechanism for that is already in place.
Well, you could definetly argue that they have. Look at games like LoL, Dota, Blizzard-Games etc. They all go for a scalable, artistic engine instead of full on horsepower like Star Citizen. Because in China, Russia etc. there are more Low-End PCs and the userbase is way higher due to that. If everybody had a 4000$ PC at home, many PC games would definetly look better nowadays.
Yes...but just like pc you can pay for the better experience.
Everything can be watered down but this means it would have to literally develop an entirely separate port akin to how SW Force Unleashed had two parallel developments for PS360 and Wii version.
Given the data loading and the streaming benefits brought on by SSD, which presumably is the single biggest game changer (aside from RT whose frequency and magnitude of usage is an unknown atm), I do not know how they will design levels for last gen systems with 5400RPM 32MB cache HDD. This would result in a fundamental schism in terms of designing levels with traversal in mind.
A great example is Star Citizen and how it uses SSD for streaming and how it is severely compromised when running on HDD. Thus, I do not see a straight port of games from the new Xbox series back to the One S/X unless the games are being designed around the weakest link's specification (Xbox One S).
This is an old fashioned and quite close minded view. People will buy new consoles if they intend to use the system for over 2 years. If not, they'll end up buying it later, MS still gets that user.
I think Sony will be successful no matter what. I dont think it means microsoft wont be successful if they take this approach.
I'm sure they will both be fine.
I dont know where you've been for previous gens but launch titles, hell the first year of next gen games are average to good at best. Sure there has been some outliers in the past but it's extremely rare.
I'd rather take a current gen finely tuned titles with a large budget and investment at 60 fps and extra bells and whistles than a killzone shadowfall or knack.
Look at my previous posts. Users will realize they get anything + much MUCH more from a PC and will invest more if they are really interest to stay in the ecosystem for multiple years. PC has 0 downsides anymore compared to an xbox EXCEPT the higher price upfront.
Couldn't agree more. Designing cross gen holds things back...it just does. This has been a loooong generation...it's okay to cut the cord and make games that won't run on 7 year old systems and older PCs...
I don't get the concern on this. Next gen is basically: optimize for performance. That's the appeal of next gen. It's so easy to make these games next gen under that approach
This is false, PC is more complex and is more prone to errors.
They better make a deal with Nintendo to bring it to the Switch.
And that's a pretty substantial downside. You're not gonna find a PC with the specs of the XSX (provided everything said is true) for $500. A lot of people would also prefer not to have to deal with the hassle of building a PC whereas with the XSX they can just buy it, plug it in, and play.
This just made me think of something, what if there are threads begging for a Xbox Series X patch (I keep typing Xbox One X) like they ask for Playstation Pro and Xbox One X patches. Something to really take advantage of the system.
Now this is some old fashioned nonsense. PC is not more prone to erros for YEARS now and is not more compley. The xbox App even restricts you to go into the folders of games. So you could literally start a Windows 10 PC (preinstalled 99% of the time) and open the xbox app and just play games. Nvidia had automatic driver managers for years now and nothing else really matters for simple PC gaming.
That's not next-gen, that's a mid-cycle refresh.
They're literally delaying next-gen, just giving you some more pixels.
And on-top of that they're knifing next-gen in the back with Lockhart.
The only thing console makers needed to take from PC was backwards compatibility. That's IT. But no, they don't want to invest millions into new amazing game experiences so we'll give you the same level of games you've already been playing for the last 2 decades with some sharper and shinier colouring.
They're basically just polishing turds for next-gen.
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And this is where the arguments stops making sense for me. People say that "core" gamers will buy a new xbox for better graphics and fps. But the thought of investing a little bit more is a substantial downside. Even though you get way more games, cheaper games and many many other benefits with it. PC gaming with Steam or the Xbox App is definetly not something that is too complex for even the most casual user anymore.
Differentiation seems to be the goal here.
We can all weigh up the pro's and con's.
Its good to have the big players in gaming gouging out their own landscape.
We, as consumers, will choose.
Choice is good.
That choice is now being made clearer for gamers, whether it be based on cost, technical prowess, exclusive titles, services, etc.
Sony, Nintendo and MS know there are enough gamers to go round. Have fun y'all.
I'd honestly love to see xCloud come to every platform where it makes sense. Besides Microsoft, I think Sony would be the biggest obstacle, I mean they blocked EA Access for years just because it competed with PS Now and Sony also kept Minecraft: Bedrock Edition of their platform for a couple years because it required an Xbox account to log in so I can't imagine Sony being the biggest fan of a service that required both an Xbox account and competed with PS Now. Who knows though, both EA Access and Minecraft: Bedrock Edition are now on PS4 so its not entirely impossible, in fact I could even see Sony being all over it because they would literally have every game on Xbox and Playstaion on one platform.
Honestly, this approach makes sense but it's not terribly appealing to me. Hope it works for them, though.
Enthusiasts, yes. I have a 2080 Ti/9900k/32 GB DDR4 rig. I would build a high-end rig over buying a console. Your average gamer? No. Most PC gamers play at 1080p. Price/performance is huge in PC gaming and the XSX would be incredible value compared to a similarly built rig, especially when you don't even have to worry about building it yourself.
And I never said PC gaming is complex, but consoles are certainly more convenient in regards to plug n play. At least in my experience.
I have news for you & anyone else that thinks the PS4 and Xbox One did well in 2013-2014 due to Killzone, Infamous, Forza 5, and Sunset Overdrive rather than graphically improved versions of Call of Duty, NBA, Madden, and FIFA. 😬
This is pretty much the best of both worlds. Games will still look like big generational jumps over the older consoles, while at the same time devs won't have to take huge risks in only supporting small userbases.
But you average gamer also won't see the benefit to pay 500$ to have acces to the same games they had before, just because the resolution is now 4k (which they need a TV for anyways). I can gurantee you if I would tell many average gamers now that they don't need a PS5 to play Horizon 2, GoW2 or Spiderman2, many wouldn't bother upgrading. But the issue will only exist until 2022, so lets see how it impacts the XSX sales until then, if at all.
Next-gen promises larger levels, improved AI, larger amount of unique assets, meaningful physics, ...etc. I don't see these things scaling with graphic settings - so games would still be designed for the Xbox One SKU since it's going to have to run on that. That is a big limitation. I'm a bit disappointed, even though this is what I expected.
I would say xbox would love to. But I doubt nintendo and Sony want them to. Hey play xcloud on a ps5 with game pass and not spend money in our store on third party games we get a cut of because instead your playing them on gamepass which your paying MS for..... sony and Nintendo are the obstacles here lol
I think that is a big mistake. New consoles need exclusive games that are not available on the previous generation machine.Will that stop me from buying an Xbox Series X? Nope. I'll get that and PS5 at launch. For me, it's not about which console I buy. I always buy the hardware. It's always about which games I buy for each platform. I know Xbox Series X will be worth owning, as will PS5. and the next piece of Nintendo hardware (be that Switch Pro or a nextgen Switch 2).
It's only a matter of time before the prior generation gets dropped and games are released that will only be possible on the new hardware.
It's only a matter of time before the prior generation gets dropped and games are released that will only be possible on the new hardware.
The only scaling technique that would still make next gen games amazing is to have a link to a youtube playthrough of it running on a next-gen system.
Or a point & click narrative version on the older systems.
Not, here's the same exact game, one runs at 1080p and the other 4K. That limits things so fucking much. We're basically stuck on last gen.
It's nothing compared to what we could get if they didn't target 4K or have lockhart. This news just makes things even worse.
They've cheaped out on next-gen. Sacrificing amazing new feats in game development for a resolution slider.
Or a point & click narrative version on the older systems.
Not, here's the same exact game, one runs at 1080p and the other 4K. That limits things so fucking much. We're basically stuck on last gen.
It's nothing compared to what we could get if they didn't target 4K or have lockhart. This news just makes things even worse.
They've cheaped out on next-gen. Sacrificing amazing new feats in game development for a resolution slider.
I've said this before but it never ceases to amaze that a fan base that consistently expects and sits on the cutting edge of tech can be so resistant to change and have little to no ability to modernise their thinking lol.
I think we agree. But the point I feel most fervent about is that I shouldn't have to pay for the better experience if I want to play on console.
You're basically telling me hey man, you've been gaming on consoles for 20 years right? Well, that industry model is changing. You're going to have now upgrade within generations to play with other that will kick your ass in multiplayer scenarios. But, don't worry - PC has been doing this since its inception - and it works just fine.
The problem with that is many console gamers don't like the PC model, and that being one of the reasons.
Name those REVOLUTIONARY launch games people are always jumping to next gen for...
You really expect all of these things, or really even a few of these things, on launch titles?
I can confirm this, it's annoying to, you can't even add a ini file to Microsoft store games. Some say a developer can allow it by making their game install to a different folder, but when Obsidian doesn't even do it, a dev that is very ok with modding, there must be some strict rules.
Most people who buy consoles on day 1 are buying them to have access to the same games they had before because there's never many titles available at launch. It's a future investment. And once again, MS hasn't said they're never releasing XSX exclusives. They just said not in the first 1-2 years. And building a PC would pretty much guarantee the exact same thing that buying a XSX would because you're not getting PS5 exclusives on PC and third party devs aren't moving over exclusively to PS5 and XSX for at least a few years, so you're basically building a PC that will get you the exact same games that the XSX gets you except at a premium price point.
This is your best bet for 60fps across all games on SX actually.
This was known, I still don't like the sound of it.
Unless they throw performance and user experience out of the window completely for old consoles, there's no way this won't hold back SX.
I wonder, why then have a '1080p SKU' like Lockhart when those who are not interested in having the latest technology can just buy a One S for peanuts and play a less pretty version of the same games. Where does Lockhart fit in the whole lineup?
DF having to compare 4 (5 of you count One and One S as separate) different Xbox versions of Halo Infinite is going to be fun.
This was known, I still don't like the sound of it.
Unless they throw performance and user experience out of the window completely for old consoles, there's no way this won't hold back SX.
I wonder, why then have a '1080p SKU' like Lockhart when those who are not interested in having the latest technology can just buy a One S for peanuts and play a less pretty version of the same games. Where does Lockhart fit in the whole lineup?
DF having to compare 4 (5 of you count One and One S as separate) different Xbox versions of Halo Infinite is going to be fun.
And that seems to be doing great for google...right?
Thing is developers are not too happy having to make games for more than one version of a console. Lockhart, XBox one x, xbox one s not something that makes helps their development paths.
Targeting one console and developing for one spec helps them out so they can concentrate on those specs/features and fully customize the entire development around it.
This topic assumes that the first two years of XBSX games will run on XB1 - so I definitely hope to see improvements other than resolution/draw distance/frame rate/shaders in next-generation games.
Infamous: Second Son was an early PS4 game that really impressed me. I don't think this would have happened if it also had to have a SKU running on PS3.