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Matt Booty (Xbox): Our titles for the next year or two will not be next gen exclusive
- Thread starter spam musubi
- Start date
He said "over the next year, or two" so if we take that to mean max 2 years from January 2020 which would be January 2022, that's basically like a year and a few months at most
FWIW I shared these thoughts in the other thread.
After thinking about it more and talking to some people who are probably more level headed than me. I don't really think this is anything to be concerned about. In reality we're looking at this only applying to titles within the first year. With their focus on creative independence, I would think they'd work with their studios on what they are cooking up and whether or not those visions can be supported on current gen hardware. So basically if the XBO can support what a studio would like to do, and their schedule can fit within the 2021 year, then it can be a cross gen game. Their incubation process works without the need for approval, so it's not like Booty or Spencer can kill a game idea just because the XBO can't support it if they don't even know what the devs are cooking up initially.
I think once people see how good the games look and run, regardless if it's cross gen or not, this will be a non-issue for most people. There were few innovative games for most of this generation and consoles sold fine. Regardless of how I felt or feel about this approach, I don't see this as any sign of conceding sales to Sony in any way. Everyone here keeps saying that games are most important. So if they provide quality games that look and run amazing on next gen systems, it will be an incentive to buy one of these systems. BF4 was available on the PS360 but that was still the one game I got around launch on the PS4 because I wanted the prettier graphics, faster frame rates, and larger player counts. There's nothing stopping the same thing from happening here.
To me, outside of the scope of some games, the majority of games this gen seem to be pretty versions of what we got last gen with more solid frame rates. MGSV was one of the most innovative games this gen in terms of gameplay, not level design mind you, but the sheer options in how you can approach a mission but it was also cross gen. The fact that it was also cross gen didn't seem to kill any excitement leading up to launch. RDR2 is one of the few instances where it truly felt innovative with the world, AI, etc. even though the gameplay itself could have been replicated on last gen hardware.
Were looking at this approach applying to their games for the first year, max. There's nothing to say we have seen the end of innovation with current hardware and we don't know if they would limit any major advantages on next gen hardware. Groups of enemies can possibly be larger in Halo Infinite for example. If Forza 8 is at launch and cross gen, physics can be more advanced, damage more realistic, etc.
[/QUOTE]
I think you have a limited view on how some games can scale.
Exactly, I at least try to elevate to a 15 year old youtube commenter. =p
After thinking about it more and talking to some people who are probably more level headed than me. I don't really think this is anything to be concerned about. In reality we're looking at this only applying to titles within the first year. With their focus on creative independence, I would think they'd work with their studios on what they are cooking up and whether or not those visions can be supported on current gen hardware. So basically if the XBO can support what a studio would like to do, and their schedule can fit within the 2021 year, then it can be a cross gen game. Their incubation process works without the need for approval, so it's not like Booty or Spencer can kill a game idea just because the XBO can't support it if they don't even know what the devs are cooking up initially.
I think once people see how good the games look and run, regardless if it's cross gen or not, this will be a non-issue for most people. There were few innovative games for most of this generation and consoles sold fine. Regardless of how I felt or feel about this approach, I don't see this as any sign of conceding sales to Sony in any way. Everyone here keeps saying that games are most important. So if they provide quality games that look and run amazing on next gen systems, it will be an incentive to buy one of these systems. BF4 was available on the PS360 but that was still the one game I got around launch on the PS4 because I wanted the prettier graphics, faster frame rates, and larger player counts. There's nothing stopping the same thing from happening here.
To me, outside of the scope of some games, the majority of games this gen seem to be pretty versions of what we got last gen with more solid frame rates. MGSV was one of the most innovative games this gen in terms of gameplay, not level design mind you, but the sheer options in how you can approach a mission but it was also cross gen. The fact that it was also cross gen didn't seem to kill any excitement leading up to launch. RDR2 is one of the few instances where it truly felt innovative with the world, AI, etc. even though the gameplay itself could have been replicated on last gen hardware.
Were looking at this approach applying to their games for the first year, max. There's nothing to say we have seen the end of innovation with current hardware and we don't know if they would limit any major advantages on next gen hardware. Groups of enemies can possibly be larger in Halo Infinite for example. If Forza 8 is at launch and cross gen, physics can be more advanced, damage more realistic, etc.
[/QUOTE]
I think you have a limited view on how some games can scale.
Exactly, I at least try to elevate to a 15 year old youtube commenter. =p
1 year technically if we take the quote as a real cut off point. As the interview was held in Nov 2019
I think their past deeds draw a better picture of their business plan rather than the idealistic hopes of consumers.
People will still be able to play their PS4 games on the PS5, that doesn't change with selling remasters. And early adopters (people who can afford a $500 console at launch) will want something as a showcase of their system - it doesn't make business sense to give that away for free.
That being said, I don't know how my focus got so narrowed on remasters in this topic, haha.
Your post seemed to suggest that this will change as a consequence of this news that Microsoft will be doing crossgen games for a year or two.
But it won't. It'll be because third party publishers will be seeking to maximise revenue. Which isn't news.
Or MS wants to take the time to replace the blades in their data centres for Series X blades, due to the price of these decreasing. When that has happened, they can switch Xcloud to Series X streaming, which makes the Xbox One still able to play the newest releases, just with xCloud. Giving people the option to play the games on an Xbox One via streaming or by buying a new console.
People still thinking they're personally out witting Phil Spencer.
I gotta agree with this. People are worried about MS doing such PR moves. Most games will be cross gen again, and Sony doing Sony is fine. I think Xbox Series X will just be like an ultra version of games for third parties for a year or two.
I may be wrong here but look at the Spiderman PS5 demo. Let's say you want to design a next gen game based on super fast traversal of complex cities. You can't have the current gen version being slower or not allowing the same things, so i guess you'll have to downgrade it to a point where a traditional hard drive and current RAM can allow the same ? So PS3 graphics maybe ? Or what about a game designed on super complex physics for destruction etc..
But 3rd parties did offer limited ps3/360 -> ps4/XB1 programs via vouchers included with the retail games and discounts offered on the digital stores for owners of the last gen versions. Some charged $10 for the upgrade (BF4, CoD, ACBF[?]) while others were able to offer the upgrades for free (FFXIV, Destiny). Sony could have done the same with TLoU if they really had wanted to, the ps3 version already had a voucher tied to it due to the mp pass. But instead they went in hard on full priced remastered versions.
It's very conceivable that they do something similar again next gen and justify it as a 4k high res texture/ray tracing tax with bc available for people who don't want to pony up the cash for the upgrade. I really think it'll depend on how 3rd parties and MS want to handle cross gen licenses going forward, cause I don't see the current Sony leading the way to something more consumer friendly but I can see them conceding their approach if 3rd parties force their hand with the help of Microsoft.
you bring a very valid point here actually, I can see this being the case. I'd be a lot better if it was like that at launch tho.
On one hand, this could mean that all of their games during that time will run at 60fps, which is amazing of course.
On the other hand, this will absolutely have a negative effect on the scale / complexity of their games, because they have to run on weaker consoles. For example, all that talk about how SSDs will change game design, because characters can move faster (Spider-Man), or that there will be no more elevators to hide loading, all those things likely won't be in the first Xbox exclusives.
And it also leaves Lockhart in a weird place imo. Wasn't this the point of Lockhart, to deliver next-gen experiences for an affordable price? If you take away some of those next-gen features, then what's the point of Lockhart? Will be interesting how this will play out.
On the other hand, this will absolutely have a negative effect on the scale / complexity of their games, because they have to run on weaker consoles. For example, all that talk about how SSDs will change game design, because characters can move faster (Spider-Man), or that there will be no more elevators to hide loading, all those things likely won't be in the first Xbox exclusives.
And it also leaves Lockhart in a weird place imo. Wasn't this the point of Lockhart, to deliver next-gen experiences for an affordable price? If you take away some of those next-gen features, then what's the point of Lockhart? Will be interesting how this will play out.
That's what I'm wondering though, if platform holders aren't in a rush, 3rd parties certainly won't be, so how long will that cross-gen period be is the only real worry I can think of. I wonder even if it result in less games going for that seemless/no loading screens approach and just have load screens, as that would be best for next gen consoles/SSD PCs, as the loading isn't being hidden by level design/movement speed.
What if that Bluepoint project was Halo Infinite on Xbox 360
Fucking lmao
This is incredibly worrisome news. Essentially MS is gonna let their new hardware be shackled down by standards set in 2012. Being able to do 4K 60fps Ultra on those is all fine and dandy, but the PS5 will not have a 2 year waiting period. I wonder how they will stack up against a full fledged PS5 GoW 2 or Horizon 2, interesting times.
I like that Sony has a clear cut start and end to a generation. One of the reasons they get my $.
I like that Sony has a clear cut start and end to a generation. One of the reasons they get my $.
"Patches" LOL oh my sweet summer child, Sony is not gonna waste any opportunity to sell you the PS5 "Remasters".
When do these theoretical games start development and when do they release?
Is Horizon 2 coming out on PS5 for launch or 1-2 years after? That's just the same as what Booty said. You are getting Last of Us 2 etc. which started develpment years go and releasing on the PS5, uber versions probably, and hey that's just like Halo Infinite.
People are underestimating development time and release. Next gen only games are being made but they probably won't be soley based on next gen until 2021+ even then, it's probably suspect that they are taking full advantage of the new tech in interesting ways.
I would say Assasins Creed won't be next gen only until maybe 2022 but the new cross gen version will be shit hot on PS5 and Series X. Devs can't work magic in short time, they are talented and will have amazing ideas using the new tech but they won't pull it out their arse in short time for you to play day one or day 365.
Good,
Invest in an ecosystem and not to one particular hardware.
I think Nintendo will be next.
Invest in an ecosystem and not to one particular hardware.
I think Nintendo will be next.
by the time PS4 runs out of support there will be enough PS5s out there. Early adopters are much eager for software, too, so that'll offset sales on the smaller install base, too.
MS' move is just a good indication of how slow the transition will be. 3rd parties have always seeked maximum revenue, didn't stop them transitioning over somewhat quickly every other gen, 18 months - 2 years for most of the major stuff, I'm fully expecting that to double for next gen at this point.
Every single PS4 Pro improvement has been free, not sure why it would change for PS5 when it's doing the exact same thing as the Pro
Well it's my believe that when you plan to release a new hardware you make sure some of your big teams are allocating ressources on projects soon enough that you have some things to make people hard when it launches. If the strength of that generation is going to be CPU and SSD, you better have ambitious teams ready to showcase that and i believe they'll do (Talking about Sony cause i'm more familiar but i would have expected Microsoft to do the same).
Let me take an exemple that goes against the "first years games are not really pushing the hardware" theory.
_Drive Club was basically a case of "let's use all the more modern tech we have, even if that means 30fps" That global illumination and dynamic volumetric sky was 100% the team being all like "we can have fun now, fuck ps3"
_The order was basically a tech demo built to impress visually and was not really topped after that, with crazy material shaders, lights etc..
I mean even that city flight in Kill Zone Shadow Fall, it was pushing and doing every tricks in the book to look miles ahead of PS3.
So yeah, launch software should, and will (if they want to sell some of those consoles) push everything they can to showcase new possibilities.
In 13 and a half month there were 53* titles next gen only.
Source
*I skipped entries if there was, a, not a individual page available or b, there was no info what systems it came out for.
PS.
This was only a one time thing and I'm never going to do it again. That was really boring.
OT:
Kind of sad that games are going to be hold back by the CPU, HDD. Expect no innovation in game design from MS first party studios.
Source
*I skipped entries if there was, a, not a individual page available or b, there was no info what systems it came out for.
PS.
This was only a one time thing and I'm never going to do it again. That was really boring.
OT:
Kind of sad that games are going to be hold back by the CPU, HDD. Expect no innovation in game design from MS first party studios.
Mum! The internet meanie called me a 12 year old!
But yeah. I've observed shocking levels of ignorance on Era. From a complete lack of understanding how games are developed (or how much effort is required to implement even seemingly "easy" features), to ridiculous pseudo-scientific claims peddled as genius insight. There was a guy who claimed that a black hole beyond pluto was "canceling out" the Sun's gravitational pull and keeping the planets "in balance" so they didn't fall into the Sun.
That said, I feel that posters on Era are on average a lot more socially aware than other communities I've been a part of. So that makes Era enjoyable for me. The fact that we're all hard-core videogame nerds is pretty cool as well.
Yeah I expect a lot more cross gen stuff and for longer into the gen than ever before.
I'll probably just play those and hold off for a while since I'm still on 1080p anyway. As long as performance is ok anyway.
I'll probably just play those and hold off for a while since I'm still on 1080p anyway. As long as performance is ok anyway.
Technically the quote is from last year, but I agree with your overall point.
What was so special about those games other than graphics? That's scale which could be applied much the same next gen don't you think?
Do people really think there is a difference between
Horizon 2, Spiderman 2 compared to Fable and The Intiative IP, time frame wise.
You're going to get shit hot bells and whistles, new things to the max in games that can be played on current hardware for a little while then as usual the big hitters come out swinging and are next gen only because that stuff takes time. It's the same.
So a few things: I don't like cross-gen, and I don't like the idea of no true next-gen exclusives. I feel this will potentially limit the design of these games. However, I also feel like maybe you guys are overestimating the impact this will have. Yes, it will potentially impose limitations on games that I'd rather were not there, but at the same time, don't you guys remember how much of a leap there was from cross-gen games? Games like Dragon Age Inquisition and Shadow of Mordor truly looked and felt like they were a generation apart.
It isn't going to be like going to Pro/X where the only difference is 4K and maybe a higher/more stable framerate. I'm sure that visually, something like Halo Infinite will still be a stunning tech showcase for Series X, and will probably look and run much worse on X1. I expect that to be the case for most of these games. Again, where cross-gen was a thing in the previous gen, there was an absolutely massive difference between versions. I still expect that to be the case here.
Yes, it's really disappointing that the early Series X games won't take the fullest advantage of the new hardware, and yeah, I'd prefer it if they did. But some of you guys are acting like the only difference will be resolution. I really doubt that will be the case, and I think we will still see absolutely stunning looking games on Series X that will compare favorably with PS5. PS5 exclusives will probably look better, but I feel like that's always been the case, and probably always would have been regardless. Teams like Sony Santa Monica and Naughty Dog are absolutely amazing at what they can do with PS hardware.
Also... does this guy mean a year or two from the start of next-gen, or a year or two from now? Because if it's the latter, that means we could be seeing true next-gen XSX games as early as January 2021, or as late as January 2022. Either case ain't that bad honestly. That would mean there'd only be a year, if that, before true next-gen Xbox games were being released after the launch of the Series X.
It isn't going to be like going to Pro/X where the only difference is 4K and maybe a higher/more stable framerate. I'm sure that visually, something like Halo Infinite will still be a stunning tech showcase for Series X, and will probably look and run much worse on X1. I expect that to be the case for most of these games. Again, where cross-gen was a thing in the previous gen, there was an absolutely massive difference between versions. I still expect that to be the case here.
Yes, it's really disappointing that the early Series X games won't take the fullest advantage of the new hardware, and yeah, I'd prefer it if they did. But some of you guys are acting like the only difference will be resolution. I really doubt that will be the case, and I think we will still see absolutely stunning looking games on Series X that will compare favorably with PS5. PS5 exclusives will probably look better, but I feel like that's always been the case, and probably always would have been regardless. Teams like Sony Santa Monica and Naughty Dog are absolutely amazing at what they can do with PS hardware.
Also... does this guy mean a year or two from the start of next-gen, or a year or two from now? Because if it's the latter, that means we could be seeing true next-gen XSX games as early as January 2021, or as late as January 2022. Either case ain't that bad honestly. That would mean there'd only be a year, if that, before true next-gen Xbox games were being released after the launch of the Series X.
People seem to be forgetting that we're still in January 2020. Supporting last-gen consoles with 1st party exclusives through the first full year of a new console generation doesn't seem particularly outlandish, especially since most of the games coming out in that window have likely been in development for quite some time.
Makes sense for the most part, but I'm a bit surprised it's going to be all of their games. I'd think they would want to have one on Series X only just to be like "hey look what we can do with this".
Wonder if Sony WWS are going to be developing anything cross-gen as well.
Wonder if Sony WWS are going to be developing anything cross-gen as well.
Microsoft is focusing on power with XSX, do you really think they don't want to show that power?
You mean to tell me that people who haven't owned an Xbox console in their entire lives aren't truly, deeply concerned for the future of Xbox? ;)
Because the PS5 is not a PS4, it's a PS5. And there's big money to be made from remasters, ultimate and Goty editions.
We have Halo and maybe another game at launch. We dont know what is after that really. And then its end of 2021 and support is "ending" if we take the exact quote timing,
Oh, well that makes people look even more stupid for their concern lol
I would hate to be you. Creating so many media files. Test versions: Xbox One, Xbox One S, Xbox One X, Xbox series S, Xbox series X, PC. and if your really unlucky and get Playstation with it. Oh boy, fun! PS4, PS4 Pro and PS5........the amount of work....
MS hires some absolutely amazing engineers, so I expect the games to do more that just boot up ;). I'm sure they will be great ports, but games that truly takes advantage of the ultra fast SSD streaming might have a wide visual quality gap between the systems.