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Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,121
Chile
I sincerely doubt most people are that nuanced in their thoughts. They conflate NATO with the US and things go downhill from there.

Well, the US is the biggest NATO member. Most of the mutual defense pact in fact would end up being pointless without the USA, for example, another superpower could easily roll through several NATO members, if not all of them, but with the US there as a threat, it makes the whole deterrence work. Which makes the NATO dependent on the US and well, which at the same times makes NATO look as not only a mutual defense pact, but also an organization that has an obvious interest in keeping the US happy.

Nuance basically doesn't exist online anymore anyway, so in that we agree.
 

Lionheart360

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,251
Would Putin really announce an invasion...prior to the invasion happening? I suppose the U.S. did a similar thing with Afghanistan and Iraq but still.
 

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
17,906
Afghanistan, sure, I can see how invoking article 5 on an organisation instead of a nation is at best a grey area.
Libya was UN-sanctioned.

UN-sanctioned doesn't inherently mean good. There can be a debate to be had whether it was good or not but just because it was UN-sanctioned doesn't mean it's good.
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,880
That wasn't a lot of time to deliberate. Almost like the conclusion was pre-planned.

Yeah, if it is happening then this is it. To anyone near the line of contact in Ukraine, it might be an idea to be packed and ready to get out of the line of fire. No matter what, please stay safe.
The only place out of the line of fire is going to be Uzhhorod in the far SW corner. That is the only place Iskanders will not hit on day 1. The opening day is going to involve hundreds of extremely large missiles impacting all over the country.
 

Jimmypython

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,533
That wasn't a lot of time to deliberate. Almost like the conclusion was pre-planned.

Yeah, if it is happening then this is it. To anyone near the line of contact in Ukraine, it might be an idea to be packed and ready to get out of the line of fire. No matter what, please stay safe.

This is how dictators operate...you either agree or die
 

Tangyn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,280
Fucking hell, I don't like the fact that I'm nodding along to a Tory here.
Its sickening right.

Also watching Russia Today is a fucking hoot, jesus christ. Is that what it feels like to watch the BBC from the outside?!

Edit - for the record i personally dont watch the BBC and hate it but errr you get my meaning
 

Maquiladora

Member
Nov 16, 2017
5,068
Would Putin really announce an invasion...prior to the invasion happening? I suppose the U.S. did a similar thing with Afghanistan and Iraq but still.

No this is going to be about the decision to recognize the "independence" of the occupied part of eastern Ukraine. It will probably go to a vote in the Duma tomorrow along with military authorization. I would not expect any assault to begin until after that happens.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
Yeah RT was clearly propaganda years ago. Like in the early 2010s I think people thought they were more reasonable but that was a long time ago.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,721
Its sickening right.

Also watching Russia Today is a fucking hoot, jesus christ. Is that what it feels like to watch the BBC from the outside?!
Russia Today was never known for good journalism. They've been a propaganda arm of the Russian government since their conception.
 

maabus1999

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,880
No this is going to be about the decision to recognize the "independence" of the occupied part of eastern Ukraine. It will probably go to a vote in the Duma tomorrow along with military authorization. I would not expect any assault to begin until after that happens.
Technically already done. Only military authorization hasn't been but really unnecessary until after the fact. The opening attack could be said to be "defensive in nature supporting the new republics" followed by a vote to support attacking all of Ukraine if they so choose.

www.rferl.org

Russian Lawmakers Approve Resolution To Recognize Separatist Regions In Ukraine

The Russian parliament's lower chamber, the State Duma, has voted in favor of sending a resolution to ask President Vladimir Putin to recognize two territories in eastern Ukraine held by separatists as independent states.
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
Moderator
Oct 31, 2017
8,121
Chile
Russia Today was never known for good journalism. They've been a propaganda arm of the Russian government since their conception.

Sadly they've been one of the few international outlets doing good covering in the last years of Latam's political perils. But that's been easy, it's factually a shitstorm AND it hurts the US sphere at the same time. Win win for them.
 

Maquiladora

Member
Nov 16, 2017
5,068
Technically already done. Only military authorization hasn't been but really unnecessary until after the fact. The opening attack could be said to be "defensive in nature supporting the new republics" followed by a vote to support attacking all of Ukraine if they so choose.

www.rferl.org

Russian Lawmakers Approve Resolution To Recognize Separatist Regions In Ukraine

The Russian parliament's lower chamber, the State Duma, has voted in favor of sending a resolution to ask President Vladimir Putin to recognize two territories in eastern Ukraine held by separatists as independent states.

They voted for an appeal for Putin to recognize independence. I think if Putin agrees then that must be voted on too. It's all theatre anyway. There's no real opposition to this in parliament.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,233
The pushback against leftists in this case is justified considering some of the most mainstream leftist politicians and leftist forums are happily pushing the Kremlin's talking points and in many cases actively defending Russian imperialism. Just go to /r/socialism or any other mainstream leftist forum or site.

Not that I'm surprised in any way. It simply reaffirms what I've known to be true for a long time.
 

Cass_Se

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,123
Jesus Christ I think its the first time I'm watching RT and its grnuinely terrifying. I mean, I knew its propaganda but hearing it, live , in English, is bizarre
 
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