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Mass Hysterectomies at ICE detention facilities
- Thread starter TheHunter
- Start date
Is the presumption the hysterectomies were for sterilization?? If so, doesn't make any sense to me as there are much safer/easier/cheaper ways to sterilize... think I'll wait for confirmation from other outlets.
I'm kind of hoping this ends up being a prank. If this is actually true and outlets like New York Times and Washington Post end up corroborating this, it's going to create a pretty uncrossable line in the sand for people who support Trump and people who don't.
OP
OP
Was this practice done only during the Trump administration? How deep does this rabbit hole go? There needs to be hearings and investigations going on if we get a Biden administration and ICE def needs to be dissolved and let CBP take over their responsibilities in the meantime
It is reputable in that there is an IG report filed from a whistleblower. As others said, the Intercept has some sourcing on the other claims in the report. It may take some time to get anything else, but the report itself exists.
Fuck CBP too. Dissolve the entirety of the DHS. Modern Nuremburg trials for everyone.
As an Ob/Gyn there are a few things that stand out to me in this article.
First, it sounds like that doctor may be too trigger happy on the hysterectomy option, but it's hard to say without more context. There are a multitude of reasons to perform a hysterectomy from abnormal bleeding refractory to medication to cervical cancer to anatomic problems like prolapse and fibroids. It is one of the most common surgical procedures performed in the United States! It is not generally done for sterilization purposes, though it is certainly an important side effect. It is shocking to see in a headline because of that side effect, but it is a good surgery that improves the quality of life for many, many women and the surgery itself should not be demonized. I would like to know what the physician's rationale was for these surgeries. Maybe because he/she felt that it would be those patients' only opportunity to have such a surgery done they were more likely to do the be-all end-all gynecological surgery? I have met providers like that. Access to care in Latin America is even worse than it is in the US and you would be shocked by the medical conditions women in these countries live with because they have no alternatives. Honestly, I'd be more appalled if the whistleblower said the physician did a disturbing number of tubal ligations which are simple procedures purely intended for sterilization.
Second, a lot of these issues sound like systemic problems. Lack of double checking and shoddy translation is a recipe for medical errors, such as removing a structure on the incorrect sideMany of the patients I operated on in residency spoke only Spanish, so we had specialized medical interpreters and written consents in Spanish. You must be very careful in addressing the language barrier and Google is not at all sufficient. The patients complaint:
All this being said, it is gratifying to see that these women are receiving at least some medical care while in custody. Immigrant women usually have no medical safety net whatsoever and experience significant barriers to medical care. Typically incarcerated women in the US do have excellent access to care however, so in a way I am glad that they are receiving care at all. Obviously their surgical center and hospital need some work and these allegations must be taken seriously, but hopefully these women are getting preventative care like Pap smears and mammograms that they otherwise would not have access to. Please note, this is not a justification for their incarceration. That practice is detestable
Let me know if any of you want any clarification on the medical aspect of this, I'd be glad to share knowledge if I can
First, it sounds like that doctor may be too trigger happy on the hysterectomy option, but it's hard to say without more context. There are a multitude of reasons to perform a hysterectomy from abnormal bleeding refractory to medication to cervical cancer to anatomic problems like prolapse and fibroids. It is one of the most common surgical procedures performed in the United States! It is not generally done for sterilization purposes, though it is certainly an important side effect. It is shocking to see in a headline because of that side effect, but it is a good surgery that improves the quality of life for many, many women and the surgery itself should not be demonized. I would like to know what the physician's rationale was for these surgeries. Maybe because he/she felt that it would be those patients' only opportunity to have such a surgery done they were more likely to do the be-all end-all gynecological surgery? I have met providers like that. Access to care in Latin America is even worse than it is in the US and you would be shocked by the medical conditions women in these countries live with because they have no alternatives. Honestly, I'd be more appalled if the whistleblower said the physician did a disturbing number of tubal ligations which are simple procedures purely intended for sterilization.
Second, a lot of these issues sound like systemic problems. Lack of double checking and shoddy translation is a recipe for medical errors, such as removing a structure on the incorrect sideMany of the patients I operated on in residency spoke only Spanish, so we had specialized medical interpreters and written consents in Spanish. You must be very careful in addressing the language barrier and Google is not at all sufficient. The patients complaint:
Demonstrates a severe lack of health literacy and there is no way she made informed consent for any procedure. And that she was told 3 different things about what procedure she was having done is particularly harrowing. It makes this hospital system sound completely and dangerously inept.
All this being said, it is gratifying to see that these women are receiving at least some medical care while in custody. Immigrant women usually have no medical safety net whatsoever and experience significant barriers to medical care. Typically incarcerated women in the US do have excellent access to care however, so in a way I am glad that they are receiving care at all. Obviously their surgical center and hospital need some work and these allegations must be taken seriously, but hopefully these women are getting preventative care like Pap smears and mammograms that they otherwise would not have access to. Please note, this is not a justification for their incarceration. That practice is detestable
Let me know if any of you want any clarification on the medical aspect of this, I'd be glad to share knowledge if I can
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This is shit straight out of the Nazi playbook. Fucking vile. ICE needs to be completely disbanded and people need to be put behind bars for their role in this.
WHAT THE FUCK?!
How can this be defended!?
This isn't pro-body or pro-choice. This is inhuman. ALL fucking Americans have to be against this.
How can this be defended!?
This isn't pro-body or pro-choice. This is inhuman. ALL fucking Americans have to be against this.
Just call one of the advocacy groups mentioned if you're that skeptical.
I think you'll find at least 30% of the population high-fiving each other over this news, and chanting "USAUSA" over and over again in pride.
Oh yea DHS is a totally unnecessary department that was made during post 9/11 because everyone was scared of "terrorists" coming in to the US but that department has caused more problems and done more atrocities that actual prevention
I refuse to believe you're a doctor if you're seriously entertaining the idea that nearly every woman in this facility needs a hysterectomy.
The article gives no information about the percentage of women who had this procedure, only that a nurse felt like they did a lot of them. I've worked with surgeons who perform 5-6 hysterectomies per week! It's an extremely common procedure. Of course I don't think every woman needs their uterus removed! That would be ridiculous and I never said that! I only said that without context it is impossible to say whether the doctor was justified. The bigger issue I see here is women undergoing surgery that they did not provide informed consent for
To be fair, this does go way back and not all the blame can be placed on the Trump Administration when California has a history of this fucking bullshit.
If the whistleblower report is true then this is absolutely horrifying and appalling, but unfortunately not at all out of line with what we've done in the past. Fuck ICE and fuck every ICE apologist straight to hell. This administration is so fucking evil
They were never pro life, they're anti woman
This is distressing, especially coming from the USA.
There was a thread a few days back about what it was to grow up and look up the USA and thinking that it was the best place on Earth (thanks to the US shows and Hollywood movies). Then I grew up for real. To think I seriously considered this country as the defender of justice and democracy in the world. This is really sick...
There was a thread a few days back about what it was to grow up and look up the USA and thinking that it was the best place on Earth (thanks to the US shows and Hollywood movies). Then I grew up for real. To think I seriously considered this country as the defender of justice and democracy in the world. This is really sick...
This part is where I find appalling even more so than the actual headline in the OP. Why didn't they bring in medical translators instead of using fucking Google translate? I'm a nurse and I'm not even allowed to use any translator apps to translate for patients.
Exactly!! Or why wouldn't fluency in Spanish be a pre-requisite to work in a facility where all of the women speak Spanish? This is the most shocking thing to me. There is no excuse for having substandard translation in any medical scenario.
Considering the context of this: women in facilities that are overcrowded, as has already been reported, there's a language barrier, and other abuses have been catalogued...
I don't think it even makes sense to consider the intent of the doctor. The fact is that this is being done to women without their consent. And these women are all in a vulnerable position. I seriously doubt that this was actually done for anyone's benefit.
These aren't the type of facilities that would perform hysterectomies because people need them
This actually makes the most sense given the context, or lack there of. And I do get the distinct vibe that this was done with very little regard for the patient's feelings.
Look, I'm not saying that there aren't some serious ethical problems here, but I do take issue with people portraying hysterectomies as some kind of monstrous act. Stuff like
What even is this? Would people have the same reaction if a surgeon did a lot of appendectomies? Or is it specifically the uterus because of the sexist infertile woman = bad trope? We don't even know the age of the women undergoing these surgeries. Hysterectomies are important surgeries that have improved the lives of countless women over the years and making it out to be a monstrous, experimental procedure is doing a disservice. Should we investigate further? Absolutely! But performing a hysterectomy is not in itself an evil act, and that is what I take issue with
Why else would the US Government, which is notoriously stingy in its provision of basic healthcare needs for its own citizens, shell out the cash for expensive surgeries? If their goal was sterilization, there are much more easy and cost effective ways to do that than a hysterectomy. I think people need to refocus their outrage toward the treatment of non-English speaking women in the US healthcare system in regards to informed consent. This is not isolated to ICE facilities and there is nothing that gets under my skin more than a half-assed translation resulting a patient who does not understand what is being done to them and why
I wish I could believe ICE and the US government would be held accountable and condemned by other nations for this, but in reality nothing or very little (depending on the results of the election) will be done to bring justice to all these victims.
what you write here makes sense, but these women, AFAIK, aren't in a third world country. They're in America.
Any limitation of access to care or proper translation services is due to avoidable circumstances we have created.
It's less about this particular procedure or this individual provider, and more about the fact that our government have created the conditions that allow this to happen. If it's deliberate mistreatment or just the best of limited options doesn't make much difference when it certainly could have been avoided in the first place.
Like, what the fuck do we do here? At what point is our moral obligation to LITERALLY go in and burn it all the fuck down?