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Lt-47

Member
Dec 1, 2017
143
I can definitely attest to the nirvana of traversing a singular overlooked planet with the backdrop of space. But I still hate the gameplay that the Mako represents and wonder how else they could've captured that essence. Because they never did again.

That pretty close to how I feel. There a sense of scale and loneliness that you don't often get in game. It's also all there is to it, if your not a in the mood for some moody slow driving you going to get bored to death only to be waken up by terrible vehicle combat.
I have a hard time imagining it coming back, Andromeda fairly standard open world pacing is probably as good as it going to get.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
shinobi602 EatChildren Any clue if the Trophy/Achievement sets will be new, or just identical to the prior ones? The weapon kill ones for ME1 aren't hugely fun.

Absolutely no idea. I'm gonna assume they'll revise the achievements though. Many of the ME1 QoL changes wouldn't make sense if they kept some of the more obtuse and annoying achievements.

I can definitely attest to the nirvana of traversing a singular overlooked planet with the backdrop of space. But I still hate the gameplay that the Mako represents and wonder how else they could've captured that essence. Because they never did again.

I will continue to wave a tiny flag for my precious Mako. As for the essence, it's all about the solitude, loneliness, and scale. Slowing the pacing down and giving the player a finely tuned moment to meditate on the setting and context without the disruption of noise and adrenalin. Andromeda fucked it up by making the planets you land on still very active and content rich (despite most of it being boring), and both ME2 and ME3 have such a focused, progressive pacing that it rarely has these smaller moments.

I know it's a bunch of technical stuff that most nobody here cares about, but seeing them apply modern things like subsurface scattering and ambient occlusion to these models is giving them such new life compared to the originals. I'm seeing them render everything from the lips to the eye sclera with updated techniques that makes me excited to see more of them in action.

This is exactly what I was thinking looking at this shot, from what I knew/know about the Legendary Edition, and where my attention is most focused in cases like this. The trilogy never had proper ambient occlusions and forcing it via drivers clashed with transparencies of stuff like smoke and fog. Seeing that shot of Ashley and immediately noticing the increased geometric depth and highlights through the AO, and her much softer, more natural skin thanks to subsurface scattering, looks just beautiful.

There's some scenes in the trailer with human ME2/ME3 characters that don't look quite as nice on the skin. Hopefully the subsurface scattering is across all three games. The AO is definitely there.

I feel that ME2 is they answering the question: what do we have to do to make the best game we can? I can fully understand the feeling ME1 can evoke, I know becuase I feel it. And everytime I play ME1 I do wonder different approaches they could have had going into the future. But the first Mass Effect was a game with major gameplay issues, and in fixing and improving them, ME2 made that kind of take of a more open design harder.

The changes in tone however are a bit parallel to that, more to do with where the story was taking the player.

This is most likely the case, yeah. ME1 despite the fandom (me especially) did have mixed-positive reviews. And by that I don't mean mixed to positive, so much as positive reviews with caveats. People did talk a lot about the clumsy controls and shooting, the awful framerate on consoles, the difficult UIs especially inventory, and the divisiveness of Mako sections and the uncharted worlds. ME2 was definitely BioWare doubling down and reassessing their situation, refocusing on what they wanted Mass Effect to be relative to what they could achieve to the best of their ability, with sufficient time to polish and refine, and I mean...reviews and sales certainly show they were on the mark, even if the stuff I loved about ME1 weren't necessarily carried across.
 

Schlorgan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,932
Salt Lake City, Utah
A3HbO5g.jpg
That looks amazing
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,978
Counterpoint: As much as I loved ME1, and I played through it at least five times to 100% completion, it has aged horribly in every way except storytelling. ME2 is superior in every respect, except the main antagonist; they never topped Saren. I'm extremely glad they're changing it, I just wish they were changing it more to be fully in line with ME2 and ME3's gameplay.

The exploration in the Mako was something I thought I wanted, but in practice was tedious and really obviously slapped together in a hurry after the doctors shot their mouth off at GDC about having it in the game when it was nowhere to be seen in the existing plan. It didn't come back because it wasn't the point, the characters and the story were, and they nailed it in 2 and mostly in 3. The ending of 3, while not what was implied originally, is fine, especially with the added elements patched in and the Citadel DLC serving as a sort of final goodbye to the characters.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,051
Another underrated though understandably criticized aspect of ME1 is its random abandoned ships and surface bases. Sure they had a copy-paste feel about them but I took that to be sort of the equivalent of random dungeons in other RPGs. What felt cool about them is how isolated they were on the barren landscapes of planets or out in the depths of space. What worked about the Mako for me wasn't just the landscapes with the dope skyboxes and the right amount of negative space, but the variance of scale you get from driving, then exiting to investigate a base. Even having to go to the airlock in order to exit the Normandy added something to this.

Even No Man's Sky doesn't really capture this even though it just started letting you investigate abandoned freighters in space because that game is too dense most of the time. We still don't have that space game that 100% captures the promise of Mass Effect 1.
The perfect Mass Effect is one that is 30% mini hubs full of NPCs with lots of talky talk followed by a bunch of shooting bad dudes and exciting stuff, and 70% composed of absolutely enormous barren planets with subdued particle effects, vast galactic vistas of the celestial sky, gentle silence, and maybe one collectable you have to traverse enormous hills to find.
Honestly Elite Dangerous Odyssey is getting there. Horizons already has the on-surface vehicle exploration, Odyssey is just adding the on-foot hubs.
Andromeda, a game I ultimately grew to enjoy, is textbook evidence of how the power of the uncharted worlds wasn't just "an open planet to drive a space car around in". It's more nuanced than that, in its tone and execution, and capturing the wonder and awe of celestial vastness, evoking the enormity of space and time and your tiny insignificant presence within it, is something hard to do that ME1 absolutely nailed.
Andromeda was made by an entirely different team, but as I said in my post I don't think even they really understood what the uncharted worlds were to the people who loved them. Weird as it might sound, something as tiny and basic as the free Normandy Crash Site DLC in Mass Effect 2 did a better job of capturing the tone of the uncharted worlds than more or less anything else.
I still haven't played Andromeda. How is surface exploration on that game different?
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,470
New York
Andromeda fairly standard open world pacing is probably as good as it going to get.
Ughh let's hope not. I could not stand "exploration" in Andromeda. Those maps were the most bog standard cookie cutter open world regions that just felt like theme parks made for a game rather than real alien worlds. I'll take massive barren ME1 type planets over any of the Andromeda ones every time. Just copious amounts of busy work and menial quests and interactions. ME1 locations at least had this air of mystery and possibility to them at times. There's way more potential there than with the Andromeda approach. ME1 faltered more so due to the recycled use of the actual bases you could find and overall template of ~3 same POI per planet.

ME2/3 did a fairly good job of having fairly detailed one off locations for side missions with various ships, stations, crash sites and such. If those could be effectively combined with ME1 style planets it could work really well. This idea that every planet needs to be jam packed with content is folly. You need that vastness and emptiness and unknown potential. Sometimes you'll just find some ruins and remnants of a civilization or failed colonists. Other times you'll find some rogue extremist group with some elaborate covert base. You need that balance of nothing and something to make the actual discoveries feel like something meaningful.
 

mrchowderclam

Member
Oct 26, 2017
51
I know it's a bunch of technical stuff that most nobody here cares about, but seeing them apply modern things like subsurface scattering and ambient occlusion to these models is giving them such new life compared to the originals. I'm seeing them render everything from the lips to the eye sclera with updated techniques that makes me excited to see more of them in action.

I care! Was very happy to hear that they're updating shaders as well as bumping texture resolution.

Honestly the updates to ME1 go much further than I expected. I know that some people are lamenting the art changes but honestly I'm just happy to see that the development team has the opportunity to use new technology to better realize their original vision. I'm so stoked for the legendary edition - can't wait to jump back in. My friends who haven't played the series before are pretty hyped as well. May can't come soon enough.

Edit: I'm also SO happy that they fixed eyelash/hair rendering. It was one of those small things that really killed my immersion in the original trilogy.
 

TurdFerguson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
271
Norway
This whole thing sounds pretty great, but that price is bumming me out. I own all three original games and all expansions on Origin (and on Xbox), but there is no upgrade option? Looks like people who own ME3 on Steam will get a discount, though. Strange that EA doesn't do something similar on their own platform.
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
I still haven't played Andromeda. How is surface exploration on that game different?

It's pretty similar in function to ME1; you have large playspaces and a vehicle to explore, and can get in/out of the vehicle at any time. The problem is that each of the zones you explore are just...dull. Super pretty, but kinda aimless in their direction and tone. Lots of things to explore and see, most of it boring and uninspired. Most of the worlds feel very artificial in their construct and layout, like you're just driving from point to point to check shit off a list rather than immerse yourself in the location. There's a weird sense that they're all overly lived in and active, instead of big empty space. You're never stepping foot on an uncharted world, so much as landing on hubs full of "stuff to do".

They're all just really forgettable and boring.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
This whole thing sounds pretty great, but that price is bumming me out. I own all three original games and all expansions on Origin (and on Xbox), but there is no upgrade option? Looks like people who own ME3 on Steam will get a discount, though. Strange that EA doesn't do something similar on their own platform.
ME3 will be nine years old when this releases. An entire two generations of consoles ago. Moreover, this isn't them just adjusting some slider settings and re-releasing. There's not even a PS4/XB1 version to update.
 

Schlorgan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,932
Salt Lake City, Utah
It's pretty similar in function to ME1; you have large playspaces and a vehicle to explore, and can get in/out of the vehicle at any time. The problem is that each of the zones you explore are just...dull. Super pretty, but kinda aimless in their direction and tone. Lots of things to explore and see, most of it boring and uninspired. Most of the worlds feel very artificial in their construct and layout, like you're just driving from point to point to check shit off a list rather than immerse yourself in the location. There's a weird sense that they're all overly lived in and active, instead of big empty space. You're never stepping foot on an uncharted world, so much as landing on hubs full of "stuff to do".

They're all just really forgettable and boring.
That's very faithful to ME1 then
 

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
That's very faithful to ME1 then

Nah. ME1's uncharted worlds oozed patience and sombre tone where Andromeda's did not. Empty space is a useful tool and a virtue when used well. Andromeda didn't know what to do with any of the worlds except make them as bland as possible in spite of being full of stuff to do.

And these rose tinted glasses won't see it any other way.
 

Loanshark

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,637
I will continue to wave a tiny flag for my precious Mako. As for the essence, it's all about the solitude, loneliness, and scale. Slowing the pacing down and giving the player a finely tuned moment to meditate on the setting and context without the disruption of noise and adrenalin. Andromeda fucked it up by making the planets you land on still very active and content rich (despite most of it being boring), and both ME2 and ME3 have such a focused, progressive pacing that it rarely has these smaller moments.
Agreed. I would even go one step further and say that I liked the way that planet scanning "forced" you to engage with planets and star systems beyond the beaten path. I loved the little blurbs about a planets history, geology and atmosphere. It really contributed to that sci-fi, almost melancholic sense of solitude. Not to mentioned the excitement when you were in the middle of nowhere and you detect an anomaly that allows you to land on some irrelevant planet far away from where you are "supposed to be".
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Nah. ME1's uncharted worlds oozed patience and sombre tone where Andromeda's did not. Empty space is a useful tool and a virtue when used well. Andromeda didn't know what to do with any of the worlds except make them as bland as possible in spite of being full of stuff to do.

And these rose tinted glasses won't see it any other way.
Exactly. The fact that all these locations existed just outside the inhabited hub made them feel like theme parks, not isolated worlds. The act of navigating the galaxy map, experiencing the music, and landing the Mako were part of the experience of exploring.
 

Exposure

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,654
Weren't ME1's uncharted worlds mostly just barely finished heightmaps?

Like I get people liking the idea of what ME1 wanted to do but the actual implementation was uh, lacking and I'm kinda baffled reading all these statements about how good they are or how they felt reminiscent of random dungeons because i've played games that did a way better job at making it not feel like I was just in the same type of area again than ME1, even if that's an incredibly low bar of "have more than one kind of dungeon environment so it doesn't feel immediately obvious".
 
Nov 2, 2019
943
I am so legitimately excited for this. The whole trilogy is probably my favorite trilogy in gaming.

My only issue with the ME games has been ME1. The gameplay to me is just so janky and outdated. Jumping from 1 to 2 to 3 in terms of shooting, cover mechanics, and movement are night and day improvements from game to game. ME1 is a slog to me that I just power through the story to get to ME2. Hell, even the gun sound effects in ME1 are trash.

I can't wait to see what they did with all the improvements.
 

Barnak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,057
Canada
All the efforts they're putting on ME1 compares to ME2 & 3 is going to make me laugh if the first game ends up being the better, most modern, looking one.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,913
Maryland
Weren't ME1's uncharted worlds mostly just barely finished heightmaps?

Like I get people liking the idea of what ME1 wanted to do but the actual implementation was uh, lacking and I'm kinda baffled reading all these statements about how good they are or how they felt reminiscent of random dungeons because i've played games that did a way better job at making it not feel like I was just in the same type of area again than ME1, even if that's an incredibly low bar of "have more than one kind of dungeon environment so it doesn't feel immediately obvious".
That's fair, but it wasn't about the exact execution. The encounters themselves were cookie cutter, but the experience of navigating to and living the story elements is what I fondly remember. And the fact that there weren't too many of them. Keep in mind you could do everything in a ME game and finish in 30-35 hours. Even if you did everything, it doesn't dominate your memory of the overall experience like it might with Dragon Age Inquisition as another Bioware example.

Execute well in your limitations above all else.

This is part of why I hope the next Mass Effect is a 30 hour game. Imagine an action RPG where the polish aims more for a Naughty Dog type of experience rather than yet another Ubisoft open world experience. BioWare needs to focus on the things that made them popular with fans on games like KOTOR and ME.
 
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firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,161
Weren't ME1's uncharted worlds mostly just barely finished heightmaps?

Like I get people liking the idea of what ME1 wanted to do but the actual implementation was uh, lacking and I'm kinda baffled reading all these statements about how good they are or how they felt reminiscent of random dungeons because i've played games that did a way better job at making it not feel like I was just in the same type of area again than ME1, even if that's an incredibly low bar of "have more than one kind of dungeon environment so it doesn't feel immediately obvious".
Yeah, I actually love the ME1 worlds too but I have to imagine they'd be insufferable in 2021. lol
I guess NMS is the closest it's gotten to living up to that promise again. Or maybe if Star Citizen was actually a real game.
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,470
New York
Elite Dangerous has definitely been the closest to recreating that same sense of possibility and wonder that ME1 had in large part because of how simulated it all is. Approaching and landing on a planet, going out in a rover and stuff. Beyond content will definitely bolster things with more unique biomes and on planet facilities and FPS stuff. There is some amount of unique-ish story content to find, but it's just not as well developed nor really pertinent given the overall storiless/plotless nature of ED for the most part when it comes to your specific pilot. NMS is a fun game, but it still feels very game-y and kind bland. You visit 100 planets but it never really amounts to much, there's always some space port and same general stuff to find. Again without having real custom story content to stumble upon like ME1 had there's never the same payoff.
 
Oct 29, 2017
7,500
Weren't ME1's uncharted worlds mostly just barely finished heightmaps?

Like I get people liking the idea of what ME1 wanted to do but the actual implementation was uh, lacking and I'm kinda baffled reading all these statements about how good they are or how they felt reminiscent of random dungeons because i've played games that did a way better job at making it not feel like I was just in the same type of area again than ME1, even if that's an incredibly low bar of "have more than one kind of dungeon environment so it doesn't feel immediately obvious".

I love Mass Effect 1 to death, and I appreciate the idea of the uncharted worlds (and I very much appreciate EatChildren's eloquent posts about them!), but yes, in practice I got bored of them quickly and they were never really the thing that drew me to or hooked me on the series.
 

Ralemont

Member
Jan 3, 2018
4,508
Elite Dangerous has definitely been the closest to recreating that same sense of possibility and wonder that ME1 had in large part because of how simulated it all is. Approaching and landing on a planet, going out in a rover and stuff. Beyond content will definitely bolster things with more unique biomes and on planet facilities and FPS stuff. There is some amount of unique-ish story content to find, but it's just not as well developed nor really pertinent given the overall storiless/plotless nature of ED for the most part when it comes to your specific pilot. NMS is a fun game, but it still feels very game-y and kind bland. You visit 100 planets but it never really amounts to much, there's always some space port and same general stuff to find. Again without having real custom story content to stumble upon like ME1 had there's never the same payoff.

Edit: Nevermind, you already answered in your post
 

canderous

Prophet of Truth
Member
Jun 12, 2020
8,682
Speaking of the uncharted worlds, I don't think they even need to touch the skyboxes. They already hold up pretty well. Maybe the upscaling will help but I hope they leave them alone otherwise.

yL661zj.jpg


RsVRjm5.jpg
 

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
AFAIK it was a combination of technical issues and design priorities. They experimented with the idea coming back somewhat in the Overlord DLC where you travel around the land hub in the Hammerhead, but never bothered to return to exactly how ME1 did it. Maybe in part due to technical limitations of hardware at the time relative to intent and scope, and also UE3 being notoriously fickle at handing big open landscapes until much later revisions, and maybe in part due to general directional and design changes in tone, feel, and focus.

The interview is definitely interesting to consider in retrospect, how the tone and feel of the series did shift pretty strikingly away from exactly what ME1 conjured. I know there's sometimes a narrative from people that ME2's change was all EA's doing, but every single ME2-onwards interview I've read and seen from people on the team, leads and otherwise, did make it clear BioWare really, really wanted to take the series in that direction. People like to lean on Casey and Drew as bastions of ME1, but both seemed very much down with the tonal choices in ME2 and overall direction of the project.

Andromeda was made by an entirely different team, but as I said in my post I don't think even they really understood what the uncharted worlds were to the people who loved them. Weird as it might sound, something as tiny and basic as the free Normandy Crash Site DLC in Mass Effect 2 did a better job of capturing the tone of the uncharted worlds than more or less anything else.

Yes exactly. I recall reading several interviews with the Docs when they were still around saying that they wanted to push GTA sales numbers and saw that when GTA San Andreas could have RPG elements, why couldn't their RPGs reach the same level of broad mainstream appeal? So the desire to sell and appeal as broadly as possible was definitely not mandated by EA.

And yes, some excellent points all around with regard to Andromeda. I appreciated the intention to go back to ME1, but the execution was lacking, for obvious reasons that you've stated much more eloquently throughout this thread.

I really wonder what it would've taken for Bioware to take on the challenge of improving on ME1's design ideas and be confident in their own ability rather than scrape them all away and replace them with planet scanning (ugh) and tight corridors with chest-high walls. It appears to me that they approached their projects with the idea that if something didn't work or wasn't lauded across the board, they would simply cut it away for the sequel instead of reiterating on it and improving it.

Elite Dangerous has definitely been the closest to recreating that same sense of possibility and wonder that ME1 had in large part because of how simulated it all is. Approaching and landing on a planet, going out in a rover and stuff. Beyond content will definitely bolster things with more unique biomes and on planet facilities and FPS stuff. There is some amount of unique-ish story content to find, but it's just not as well developed nor really pertinent given the overall storiless/plotless nature of ED for the most part when it comes to your specific pilot. NMS is a fun game, but it still feels very game-y and kind bland. You visit 100 planets but it never really amounts to much, there's always some space port and same general stuff to find. Again without having real custom story content to stumble upon like ME1 had there's never the same payoff.

That's incredible, I actually thought exactly about Elite Dangerous as a good example of recreating a sense of possibility and wonder like ME1. Elite Dangerous is definitely one of the best space games I've ever played. I just wish it had a singleplayer component and some more designed, unique locations. I know that's impossible since it's more of an MMO than a singleplayer game, but oh man, I really wish they'd take that game and turn it into a singleplayer campaign with a narrative.
 

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
By the way, here's a pretty good comparison video of the media released so far versus the original vanilla game. Fast forward to the middle of the video to see still image comparisons.

 

Mr_Zombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
971
Poland
Weren't ME1's uncharted worlds mostly just barely finished heightmaps?

Like I get people liking the idea of what ME1 wanted to do but the actual implementation was uh, lacking and I'm kinda baffled reading all these statements about how good they are or how they felt reminiscent of random dungeons because i've played games that did a way better job at making it not feel like I was just in the same type of area again than ME1, even if that's an incredibly low bar of "have more than one kind of dungeon environment so it doesn't feel immediately obvious".


I know the limitations of the uncharted worlds and I understand that in practice they are nothing more than just a boring, randomly generated maps with pretty skyboxes, some collectables and copy paste "missions"... However, I still greatly enjoyed them. It's the vast barren lands, pretty skyboxes, fantastic soothing music and riding Mako through either flat spaces or jumping here and there to reach that mountain over there. I loved the atmosphere and the downtime they provided.
 

Flappy Pannus

Member
Feb 14, 2019
2,340
This whole thing sounds pretty great, but that price is bumming me out. I own all three original games and all expansions on Origin (and on Xbox), but there is no upgrade option? Looks like people who own ME3 on Steam will get a discount, though. Strange that EA doesn't do something similar on their own platform.
Same. Also for years the only way to get ME DLC on the PC was to buy 'Bioware points', and they never went on sale until they finally abandoned that. So between the 3 versions + the DLC I've probably spent close to $~200 cndn on this franchise on one platform, and they're asking for $80 now for an upgrade with better textures/lighting + some gameplay tweaks (and removing ME3 multiplayer).

Looks like the ALOT+Controller mod will still be the way I experience this for the next while unless/until this gets a big discount. So far it looks better than what PC mods can bring, but not *that* much better.
 

Azai

Member
Jun 10, 2020
3,958
Started ME1 and 2 but couldnt play much longer than a few hours because gameplay felt outdated and slugish. At least in ME1. So here is hoping that I can finally play Mass Effect and be able to enjoy it.
 

ClearMetal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,272
the Netherlands
Weren't ME1's uncharted worlds mostly just barely finished heightmaps?

Like I get people liking the idea of what ME1 wanted to do but the actual implementation was uh, lacking and I'm kinda baffled reading all these statements about how good they are or how they felt reminiscent of random dungeons because i've played games that did a way better job at making it not feel like I was just in the same type of area again than ME1, even if that's an incredibly low bar of "have more than one kind of dungeon environment so it doesn't feel immediately obvious".
My thoughts as well. Every uncharted planet in ME1 felt like the exact same randomly generated map dunked in different surface and atmosphere colors.

These posts talking about them like they were specifically designed to conjure up some ethereal experience read like the level design version of Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory.
 

Comrade Grogu

Banned
Jun 20, 2020
4,090
I've heard bad things about this series since Mass Effect 3 and Andromedia, though the former was greatly improved through fixes and DLC.

Tell me: is the story as melodramatic as it's made out to be? Part of BioWare's problem with story-telling is that they take things super-seriously sometimes and that makes them end up not really "having fun" with the story. I kinda feel that I should just be content with playing Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 for now, if I'm being honest, though people keep pestering me to play this series.

I honestly want to not play it, but if I will, can you kill Talia? I kinda hate her fanbase...

...No offense to the fanbase, I don't actually "hate" them, I just kinda found some fans of her annoying, and now I hate the character as a result.

😑
 

warcrow

Member
Oct 30, 2017
916

I hate to be that guy, but this comparison sort of concerns me.

The visual fidelity is fantastic. The metal bits, nuts, fasteners and other details all look great! However it's the mood--the atmosphere--that makes me raise an eyebrow. If you compare the top OG SS to the Legendary SS, they've changed the lighting fairly dramatically.

I know it might seem trite, however the lighting and atmosphere is one of the most underrated aspects of ME1 IMHO.

Someone reassure me this will be fine! :P
 

KrAzY

Member
Sep 2, 2018
1,920
oh shit man, looking at some of the old screens makes me wanna play again, May is far fuck
 

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
I hate to be that guy, but this comparison sort of concerns me.

The visual fidelity is fantastic. The metal bits, nuts, fasteners and other details all look great! However it's the mood--the atmosphere--that makes me raise an eyebrow. If you compare the top OG SS to the Legendary SS, they've changed the lighting fairly dramatically.

I know it might seem trite, however the lighting and atmosphere is one of the most underrated aspects of ME1 IMHO.

Someone reassure me this will be fine! :P

In the Gamespot video, they said that Bioware has changed the location of the sun in Eden Prime, so that's why things are lit differently.

That would also explain why it's no longer red and dark like the other screenshot.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,281
São Paulo - Brazil
I know the limitations of the uncharted worlds and I understand that in practice they are nothing more than just a boring, randomly generated maps with pretty skyboxes, some collectables and copy paste "missions"... However, I still greatly enjoyed them. It's the vast barren lands, pretty skyboxes, fantastic soothing music and riding Mako through either flat spaces or jumping here and there to reach that mountain over there. I loved the atmosphere and the downtime they provided.

This is the... challenge if you will of discussing ME1. We can't confuse what we liked or had a positive affect on us with what is actually good and well crafted. ME1 planets were copy and paste maps with awful terrain and barely any difference between them. Yet they could work, because they could evoke that feeling of exploration and isolation that we can associate with space. But they work dispite a lot of things ME1 did.

Same with the Mako, combat and many other aspects of that game.

And when you have so many problems, of course the range of people that will manage to overlook them and still get the feeling the game was aiming for is reduced. So going foward Bioware definitely needed to change things.
 
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EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
Nobody who loves ME1 uncharted worlds doesn't recognise them as empty, vapid game spaces made up of bad collect-a-thons across haphazardly generated heightmaps in an engine that was, at the time, struggling at best to handle large open spaces let alone fill them with and stream in interesting details.

But conveying ideas and emotionally resonating with audiences in interactive spaces isn't that simple, and sometimes potency can be achieved with simple, rudimentary things or well executed singular ideas. Can be how you interact with an item, a particular audio cue, the very specific presentation of a menu, the animation or feel of a vehicle in particular motion, or just a specific kind of vista or moment. Dishonored forces you to manually pick up coins instead of auto-looting because doing so forces the player to be attentive to their game worlds and their micro details, as well as enabling players to live "in the moment" where actions are deliberate and calculated. Busywork as simple as "you have to pick up coins manually" feeds into the gameplay loop in such a way that benefits the immersion rather than detracts from it.

ME1's uncharted worlds succeeded not because of their faults, but because they were slow, meditative moments of simplicity that evoked a grand sense of scale and wonder of large, beautifully rendered celestial bodies in the sky, in a scifi game that emphasised scale in all forms in themes and tones, while also slowing the game's pacing down between the moments of excitement and intrigue otherwise spent on missions and in hubs. Writers and directors talk about this all the time; how slower moments are necessary to accentuate the highs, and how good pacing will value both full and empty space of what is being created. ME1's uncharted worlds were the game slowing down and ridding the player of back-to-back explosions and actions, as well as NPC exposition and talky talk, and instead just let them look at big pretty skies for awhile and ponder the vastness of the universe they're immersing themselves in.

These posts talking about them like they were specifically designed to conjure up some ethereal experience read like the level design version of Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory.

Whether it was BioWare's deliberate intent or not is perfectly questionable, but the truth of people resonating with these moments is undeniable and absolute, and that is the thing to be assessed and understood. Designers often unintentionally do things that result in unexpected responses from players, which often influences future work as they learn how their audience resonated with the creative direction. That is different from the TV trope implication of over analysis and projected subtext on content that has none.
 

TurdFerguson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
271
Norway
ME3 will be nine years old when this releases. An entire two generations of consoles ago. Moreover, this isn't them just adjusting some slider settings and re-releasing. There's not even a PS4/XB1 version to update.

I know, I don't expect to get all their work for free. Just to get some kind of discount when I already own all the original games on my account. They could probably do something similar on Playstation and Xbox, if you own all the games digitally. This collection is not worth 70 dollars (599 NOK) to me when I already own the original games.
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
971
Poland
I've heard bad things about this series since Mass Effect 3 and Andromedia, though the former was greatly improved through fixes and DLC.

Tell me: is the story as melodramatic as it's made out to be? Part of BioWare's problem with story-telling is that they take things super-seriously sometimes and that makes them end up not really "having fun" with the story. I kinda feel that I should just be content with playing Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 for now, if I'm being honest, though people keep pestering me to play this series.

I honestly want to not play it, but if I will, can you kill Talia? I kinda hate her fanbase...

...No offense to the fanbase, I don't actually "hate" them, I just kinda found some fans of her annoying, and now I hate the character as a result.

😑

It is melodramatic "save the world, oh chosen one!" story and it falls apart at the end (although have a lot of epic moments throughout all three games). However, where the game shines is the characters and relationships between them. A lot of serious moments are mixed with genuinely fun moments.
 

Comrade Grogu

Banned
Jun 20, 2020
4,090
It is melodramatic "save the world, oh chosen one!" story and it falls apart at the end (although have a lot of epic moments throughout all three games). However, where the game shines is the characters and relationships between them. A lot of serious moments are mixed with genuinely fun moments.
Good news for me, then.

Yeah, it wouldn't be BioWare without them taking themselves too seriously but I'm used to it at this point.
 

VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,470
Please for the love of god they are going to fix eden prime................................

The red and blue ambient lighting some worlds had MADE this game

Also, I'm having an existential crisis. This is my favorite series/franchise of all time, I played this trilogy with male Shepherd, but.... everybody has since said Hale is the way to go. Do I start w/ femshep? Im afraid it wont give me that sweet, sweet nostalgia. Is she THAT much better?
 
Jan 4, 2018
4,018
I need to know what they're doing with Benezia. I hated everything about her, particularly her melodramatic scene on Noveria
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
I've heard bad things about this series since Mass Effect 3 and Andromedia, though the former was greatly improved through fixes and DLC.

Tell me: is the story as melodramatic as it's made out to be? Part of BioWare's problem with story-telling is that they take things super-seriously sometimes and that makes them end up not really "having fun" with the story. I kinda feel that I should just be content with playing Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 for now, if I'm being honest, though people keep pestering me to play this series.

I honestly want to not play it, but if I will, can you kill Talia? I kinda hate her fanbase...

...No offense to the fanbase, I don't actually "hate" them, I just kinda found some fans of her annoying, and now I hate the character as a result.

😑
I don't remember if you kill her but you can side against her.....pretty sure I did that. In order to side with the one Geth
 

warcrow

Member
Oct 30, 2017
916
Weren't ME1's uncharted worlds mostly just barely finished heightmaps?

Like I get people liking the idea of what ME1 wanted to do but the actual implementation was uh, lacking and I'm kinda baffled reading all these statements about how good they are or how they felt reminiscent of random dungeons because i've played games that did a way better job at making it not feel like I was just in the same type of area again than ME1, even if that's an incredibly low bar of "have more than one kind of dungeon environment so it doesn't feel immediately obvious".


oh no--you're totally right!

To help you understand, I think folks like me who simple adore this game (warts and all!) fill in the empty narrative bits and sometime literal barren spaces with our own stories to justify their existence. I love all those empty planets, and it's partly because I would assume on it all. Take Eletania for example, it didnt take much for me to say "...the space monkeys not only took the satellite space module, but they've basically terrorized all other living creatures into caves!"

Ha...absurd I know, but we just roll with it and let wash over us.
 

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
My thoughts as well. Every uncharted planet in ME1 felt like the exact same randomly generated map dunked in different surface and atmosphere colors.

These posts talking about them like they were specifically designed to conjure up some ethereal experience read like the level design version of Everyone is Jesus in Purgatory.

People aren't saying that the "randomly generated UE3 maps" were intentionally designed to create an ethereal experience. What people are saying is 1) the characteristics (intended or not) of these maps gave way for an ambient, isolated experience of space and uncharted worlds that was and still is very unique for video games. 2) Bioware had enough confidence in themselves to actually let isolation and emptiness be a part of this experience instead of always thinking that something exciting had to happen every five minutes in order to keep the attention of every possible player. While "randomly generated maps" are in themselves not particularly interesting, it's the cohesive whole of the music, the art style, the skyboxes, the howling wind, the long distances and unruly terrain that had to be traveled, and so on that together served as the foundation of why people really liked the Uncharted Worlds.

The take-away from the conversation is also that this design idea could have been explored more and refined much much more instead of entirely abandoning
the concept. Obviously they could've been improved for a potential sequel to ME1, but instead they were scrapped entirely.

EatChildren put it much better above though lmao :P
 
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