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Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,640
I mentioned it in the OT but it honestly doesn't matter who's responsible because the pass has overall been really solid and have all been the kind of picks Sakurai would've made on his own terms anyway.

There's two narratives at war here: the idea that Sakurai is a rock star given free reign in his own passion project, and the idea that Sakurai is being whipped down by greedy Nintendo into marketing upcoming games and partnerships. It's why all the conversation circles around Byleth, it's why it used to circle around Hero, it's why you'll get people suggesting that Joker is somehow meant to be an advertisement for Persona 5 Scramble of all goddamn things. It's all either personalizing too hard or depersonalizing to the point of sterility, and the reality seems to be more in the middle than a lot of us online folk would probably like to accept at first glance. Because that requires accepting that a faceless corporate entity like Nintendo is somehow capable of valuing fanbase goodwill.
 

Hero Prinny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,189
Byleth is the sole reason I'm not trusting them with season 2. I'll just buy them as they release. I don't trust them to not shoehorn another useless fire emblem character into the game
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Byleth is the sole reason I'm not trusting them with season 2. I'll just buy them as they release. I don't trust them to not shoehorn another useless fire emblem character into the game
I'll never understand not wanting all the characters. Even if I don't love the character more content is more content. Not like I cared about Banjo before this pass.
 

Woylie

Member
May 9, 2018
1,849
picking byleth over edelgard was probably just a result of timing - the marketing people who pushed a promotional 3H character probably didn't realize how popular edelgard would become, and picked the safer option, because of how far in advance the choice was likely made

which ended up coming back to bite them, since i think the reaction to edelgard as a character would have been much more enthusiastic than byleth at this point
 
Jan 9, 2018
959
That said one could criticize Nintendo for going with another FE lord when cheaper third party options like Sans, Rayman, and Pheonix Wright existed.
Wright is arguably the only "current" protagonist you listed there, and we're still how far away from AA7? When did AA6 come out?

Honestly, the only other choices were a Galarian Pokemon or like an Astral Chain rep, the latter of which was a completely new IP and could've totally flopped (thankfully it didn't). It's very easy to see why Nintendo would suggest a Three Houses rep to Sakurai.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,432
To be honest, the FE representation in Smash is done so badly you'd arguably have to not be a diehard fan of the series to be ok with it.
Honestly, I feel like a lot of the FE characters would've been on the chopping block if not for "everyone is here". FE gets new reps so the most recent and notable heroes can have their time to shine in Smash since the series features a revolving cast. It's just people hate cuts so it's hard to get rid of them once they've had their time in the sun
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,993
Haha yeah, okay. So... who is looking like the most likely FE character for next round of DLC? I don't play FE or Smash.

Any more blue-haired, sameface characters that aren't in yet?
intsys5jkfe.png
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,296
new jersey
So Nintendo picked a Persona 5 character which happens to be a game Sakurai is a huge fan of, then picked Hero from DQ which is another franchise he's deeply fond of, then Banjo-Kazooie who Sakurai wanted to add in Melee before the incoming Rare split, and then picked a KoF character from yet another franchise he's always been fond of. And then they chose to close it off with another character from an already over-represented series he also happens to be a mega fan of.

Totally believable.

I get that he doesn't want to catch undeserved heat for exerting his creative freedom, but telling such an obvious lie doesn't help.
yes because persona 5 and DQ are both franchises that are kinda obscure and only sakurai likes. Not like Dragon Quest and Nintendo have been together for a long time, not at all. KoF is a pretty big deal too and like some said, Nintendo marketed SNK's games for Switch.

Sakurai loves all kind of games. No surprise he's fan of so many franchises.
 

¡ B 0 0 P !

Banned
Apr 4, 2019
2,915
Greater Toronto Area
Wright is arguably the only "current" protagonist you listed there, and we're still how far away from AA7? When did AA6 come out?

People went crazy over a frigging mii costume of Sans. Imagine how insane the internet would have become if he was a full-fledged fighter?

And Rayman did have Rayman Legends. He's not a dead franchise like Banjo. You know Ubisoft wants him in Smash so it's not like they'd be picky over how he is represented or demanded a lot of cash.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,432
yes because persona 5 and DQ are both franchises that are kinda obscure and only sakurai likes. Not like Dragon Quest and Nintendo have been together for a long time, not at all. KoF is a pretty big deal too and like some said, Nintendo marketed SNK's games for Switch.

Sakurai loves all kind of games. No surprise he's fan of so many franchises.
Seriously. Dragon Quest in particular is only strange if you're completely unfamiliar with Japan (The country where Smash Bros is made) since it's absolutely massive there probably more so than pretty much any of the other third party characters
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,522
Haha yeah, okay. So... who is looking like the most likely FE character for next round of DLC? I don't play FE or Smash.

Any more blue-haired, sameface characters that aren't in yet?
Well it's looking like a FE4 remake might come out during the second round of DLC. So it's entirely possible we could get Seliph, who is essentially Marth 2.0.

Hopefully Nintendo decides one FE character as DLC is enough.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
Byleth is the sole reason I'm not trusting them with season 2. I'll just buy them as they release. I don't trust them to not shoehorn another useless fire emblem character into the game
We're probably not gonna get another new mainline FE game until at least 2022, so I wouldn't worry if that's your concern.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
That doesn't seem to be the case. We know that Sakurai picked Greninja, Incineroar, Cloud, and Hero.

Yeah, this whole thing is the most nothing debate.

I think it's fairly naive to think he's just a captive passenger, unable to have any voice other than "YES/ NO".

That's not how things come across at all. Hell, reading the convo with the DQ team shows how much his (Sakurai's) passion and desire to get Hero in over slime swayed them and how he had wanted a DQ rep but thought it impossible until Nintendo said they think it can happen. (which is funny reading the "too many sword characters" line. DQ Devs wanted to use a slime)

But people like to feel like they can predict things so having the 3rd party rug pulled out from under them by another FE character really rustled some jimmies and reminded them that yes, some amount of selections may not be to your liking and we can't exclusively look at the mind of this 1 Japanese dude to puzzle this shit together.

Some picks may feel more like Sakurai picks, some may feel more like Nintendo picks. Not a big deal if you liked any of these DLCs so far.

I expect Pokemon to pop up next pass. Or maybe in 2 weeks Sakurai will reveal that all of Pass 2 is his solo picks ... at which point I'd still expect a new Pokemon cause he always adds a new Pokemon.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
I still wish it was someone else from Three Houses. As I've mentioned already, Smash has serious problems with regards to a lack of gender & ethnic diversity, and Three Houses had two major characters (Edelgard & Claude, a woman & a person of color respectively) who could have helped with that as well as be mechanically unique. The decision to...
  1. Go with Byleth, &...
  2. Make them male by default
...was a huge missed opportunity. It's sad when the only FE character who's primarily female is Lucina, and even more sad when the only female representation in the Fighters Pass are the secondary part of duo & an alternate costume. Though I'd likely be less disappointed if Sakurai actually changed Corrin to be primarily female in Ultimate. I say this as someone who otherwise dislikes Female Byleth's design.
 

rayngiraffe

Member
Dec 11, 2018
1,454
I mentioned it in the OT but it honestly doesn't matter who's responsible because the pass has overall been really solid and have all been the kind of picks Sakurai would've made on his own terms anyway.

There's two narratives at war here: the idea that Sakurai is a rock star given free reign in his own passion project, and the idea that Sakurai is being whipped down by greedy Nintendo into marketing upcoming games and partnerships. It's why all the conversation circles around Byleth, it's why it used to circle around Hero, it's why you'll get people suggesting that Joker is somehow meant to be an advertisement for Persona 5 Scramble of all goddamn things. It's all either personalizing too hard or depersonalizing to the point of sterility, and the reality seems to be more in the middle than a lot of us online folk would probably like to accept at first glance. Because that requires accepting that a faceless corporate entity like Nintendo is somehow capable of valuing fanbase goodwill.
I think that people just somehow swing from massively drastic positions - when Sakurai said Nintendo chose the picks everyone expected the pass to be first-party/promotional, then Banjo came out and expectations swung south before taking a hard turn back again with Byleth.
It's not possible to admit that the pass will not fully satisfy everyone - one dud (which may not be the case for everyone) out of a pack of 5 would just blow the whole thing apart. Which is what i'm seeing among a lot of people nowadays.


To be honest, the FE representation in Smash is done so badly you'd arguably have to not be a diehard fan of the series to be ok with it.
Honestly, I feel like a lot of the FE characters would've been on the chopping block if not for "everyone is here". FE gets new reps so the most recent and notable heroes can have their time to shine in Smash since the series features a revolving cast. It's just people hate cuts so it's hard to get rid of them once they've had their time in the sun
Tell me more about how Sakurai planned out and squeezed 5 FE characters, 1 clone and 2 echoes into a single iteration of smash instead of it being paced out over a period of 20 years
emot-allears.gif
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,432
I still wish it was someone else from Three Houses. As I've mentioned already, Smash has serious problems with regards to a lack of gender & ethnic diversity, and Three Houses had two major characters (Edelgard & Claude, a woman & a person of color respectively) who could have helped with that as well as be mechanically unique. The decision to...
  1. Go with Byleth, &...
  2. Make them male by default
...was a huge missed opportunity. It's sad when the only FE character who's primarily female is Lucina. Though I'd likely be less disappointed if Sakurai actually changed Corrin to be primarily female in Ultimate. I say this as someone who otherwise dislikes Female Byleth's design.
Edelgarde would have been less mechanically unique than Byleth. I get why people want her, but mechanically she has literally nothing interesting to offer
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
Edelgarde would have been less mechanically unique than Byleth. I get why people want her, but mechanically she has literally nothing interesting to offer
A heavy-hitting woman with magic has room for potential. Not as much potential as Claude, but Edelgard would be plenty unique among the FE cast.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,432
Only if you're not creative enough to see how different a Axe is compared to a sword.
I mean Byleth literally uses Edelgarde's axe and guess what: It functions like a big slow sword

Because that's literally how axes work in a fighting game. The difference between an axe and a big sword (like say, Ike's Ragnell) is pretty much purely cosmetic when it comes to 2D fighting games
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
I mean Byleth literally uses Edelgarde's axe and guess what: It functions like a big slow sword

Because that's literally how axes work in a fighting game. The difference between an axe and a big sword (like say, Ike's Ragnell) is pretty much purely cosmetic when it comes to 2D fighting games
But you'd have a character who's both unique compared to the other FE characters & someone who helps with the roster's diversity problem, whereas Byleth is only the former.
 

Tengrave

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
898
A Three Houses Rep still had to make it at some point. The only problem was it was the last character in the season. If Banjo was the final pick I doubt we be talking about it that much.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
I expect Pokemon to pop up next pass. Or maybe in 2 weeks Sakurai will reveal that all of Pass 2 is his solo picks ... at which point I'd still expect a new Pokemon cause he always adds a new Pokemon.
Considering that we just got a Sword/Shield spirit event, the chances of a Gen 8 rep aren't looking so good.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,432
But you'd have a character who's both unique compared to the other FE characters & someone who helps with the roster's diversity problem, whereas Byleth is only the former.
I honestly think Edelgarde would only end up being the latter, but regardless I'm not arguing the diversity angle, just that Edelgarde would be a very bland character mechanically, more so than Byleth is right now (and byleth is arguably the most vanilla DLC char as it is in Ultimate)
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,432
Does Nintendo mandate that a significant chunk of the FE characters play super similar?
I mean the reason most of them play similarly is that 4 are ultimately based on Marth between Marth, Roy and the two echoes of them. Ike is vaguely similar to them, but he plays pretty differently overall and the rest of them don't play anything like each other
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
Houston, TX
A Three Houses Rep still had to make it at some point. The only problem was it was the last character in the season. If Banjo was the final pick I doubt we be talking about it that much.
Smash reveals rarely end on a high note.

I honestly think Edelgarde would only end up being the latter, but regardless I'm not arguing the diversity angle, just that Edelgarde would be a very bland character mechanically, more so than Byleth is right now (and byleth is arguably the most vanilla DLC char as it is in Ultimate)
Fortunately she also has magic to go along with her axe.
 

Burrman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,633
I always thought he decided who to add, or mostly at least. Everytime there's a character reveal it seems the whole thread praises him. "Sakurai you madman" shit like that lol. It almost reaches Kojima levels
 

Wowfunhappy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,102
So basically Nintendo is forcing Sakarai to use characters that don't benefit Smash as a game.

Got it.

:(
 

rayngiraffe

Member
Dec 11, 2018
1,454
Does Nintendo mandate that a significant chunk of the FE characters play super similar?
Who would have thought that the clone and echoes would play similarly to each other huh, big surprise

So basically Nintendo is forcing Sakarai to use characters that don't benefit Smash as a game.

Got it.
I somehow conveniently forgot that Ridley, K Rool, the Belmonts, Banjo, Hero and Terry got added in - "the poster"
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,927
There are definitely too many Marths. Lucina is fine as an echo fighter for him but I'd happily lose Roy and Chrom. I wish we could get a lance or axe user instead.
 

lexony

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,518
Why is it so hard to believe that all dlc fighters are chosen by Nintendo? I mean it is possible that sakurai has a bigger involvement in the decision-making than he is admitting, but It isn't like the company is only made out of soulless business man.
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,792
??
For what it's worth I think all of the FE characters feel unique in how they play so that's not too bad.
 

Gradon

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,465
UK
He tweeted that he doesn't pick choices before any of the first DLC characters were even revealed, but y'all (specifically the ones who said it was 100% Sakurai's fault we got Byleth) literally ignore word from the directors mouth.

1*vfBIFGa0hOb84TZN5GoyGA.gif