• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,574
Switzerland
i understand that this is a punisher show, guns are prevalent, but i didn't like how
how the only character that represent gun control was protrayed as a coward who just saying shit for politics, it's like the show is telling us that gun controls are bad...

still i love the show, it's the best marvel netflix show after daredevil
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,292
Well I didn't gloss over those themes, I mentioned them, just said they're not executed very interestingly or creatively. As to the vague criticism criticism, I don't want to get into spoilers and I said I'm only 8 episodes in, so I'm just expressing what's bothering me til now having included the possibility to be missing something that might become clearer when I watch further, so that's why I didn't go into detailed nitpicks.

As for the question, that's exactly it, he reiterates it and the repeating dream flashback reiterates it, but it doesn't work nearly as convincingly as in the Daredevil season, meaning I don't feel like he has this driven need for revenge (so far). That might well be a concious decision of the writers for this season, I have to watch the rest to see where it ends up in order to express an opinion on if it makes sense, but from a pure episode to episode enjoyment factor or in terms of emotional connection it doesn't work well for me.

I can dig it. It finishes really strong. Interested to know what you think when you finish. Last two episodes especially were very satisfying.
 

Flow

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,340
Florida, USA
OVERALL:

That was a great watch. The main reason being the last half was on par if not better than the first half. The highs weren't as crazy as Jessica jones, or some other shows but it was quality. The side characters weren't annoying except for Karen. Subplots didn't drag for too long.

IMO I was reading punisher in the comics for years, but I think I like this adaption of the punisher more than a lot of other takes. I love how they didn't make him a hero in this, and he actually had to deal with the idea of hurting good men.

We won't see a season 2 for a hot minute but I can see him showing up in another series as a cameo.
 

L4DANathan

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
857
Fairfax, VA, USA
A lot of you guys are shitting all over the Senator Ori subplot, which I completely agree with. That whole segment was completely out of place, they could have easily found some other arbitrary reason for
Frank and Lewis to face off.

Bernthal gives an incredible performance, but there's an argument to be made that the character he's playing isn't actually a very faithful version of the Punisher. There's not all that much punishing going on in this show, and a number of criminals are let slide in ways that no other incarnation of the character would ever allow. I can understand if some people don't like that (especially Punisher Max purists).

I know what disappointed me the most was the fact that we didn't see the growth of Frank from the pained, broken man in DDS2 to the sociopath in Punisher MAX. I was hoping the character arc for the season would be him establishing the more specific aspects of his code and deciding what his place in the world is. They definitely could have done this without altering the plot at all, the moment I lost faith was during
the call between Lewis and Frank, where Frank gives the stupidest answers to Lewis' questions.
Also, no way in HELL that Frank ever would have let Turk go, that really rubbed me the wrong way.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
show is picking up at the half way mark. Episodes 2, 3, 4 were a total bloat to get through,

i'm glad that its picking up steam. They could of cleaned up that first 3rd a little bit better
 

Punished Goku

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,952
So season 2 speculation
Since I heard Micro is responsible for pushing Frank into a full on sociopath, his family is totally gonna die in season 2 aren't they?
 

luca

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,523
I'm really liking Frank and Micro interactions.

And I knew Madani would get hit, just not by that car!

I've really liked the show so far. So it's all goes up from here?
 

sandyph

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,039
Finished it, was a bit slow at the start but the last couple of episode is really great

Though
when Rawlins is beating up Frank and he imagines having sex with his wife is quite.... strange

And of course
Frank running Billy's face on the mirror finally made me looked away from the screen
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
I've got to say, I really enjoyed the Punisher, more so than the recent Marvel shows (particularly JJ and the Defenders). Felt a lot more grounded, and had a lot more character study than I expected it to have.

Finished it, was a bit slow at the start but the last couple of episode is really great

Though
when Rawlins is beating up Frank and he imagines having sex with his wife is quite.... strange

And of course
Frank running Billy's face on the mirror finally made me looked away from the screen

I wonder if that sex scene had a double meaning. Maybe pointing to how Frank can cope with pain + hallucinating that he was about to die and meet his wife in the afterlife.
 
Last edited:

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
Finished it, was a bit slow at the start but the last couple of episode is really great

Though
when Rawlins is beating up Frank and he imagines having sex with his wife is quite.... strange

And of course
Frank running Billy's face on the mirror finally made me looked away from the screen

I've got to say, I really enjoyed the Punisher, more so than the recent Marvel shows (particularly JJ and the Defenders). Felt a lot more grounded, and had a lot more character study than I expected it to have.



I wonder if that sex scene had a double meaning. Maybe pointing to how Frank can cope with pain + hallucinating that he was about to die and meet his wife in the afterlife.

I thought it was about intimacy, the intimacy between lovers during sex and the intimacy between people who hate each other that commit violence against one another and how all that stuff is getting mixed up.

So it's a whole whack of crazy.
 

Punished Goku

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,952
So what was frank talking about in the last scene?
Did frank hang up his armor or is he still the punisher?
 

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
So what was frank talking about in the last scene?
Did frank hang up his armor or is he still the punisher?

Without a war to fight, Frank doesn't know what do with his life anymore. The Punisher could always come back. In fact, a part of him is probably aching for another war.
 

enzo_gt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,299
Wow, I'm 5 episodes in and I can't stop watching. I couldn't care less for Punisher otherwise but this show is knocking it out of the park and is much better than the last few Marvel Netflix series. So far, Daredevil and JJ-tier material right here.

Bernthal's performance is truly exceptional.
 

Milky Way

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,054
Loved this show. Bernthal is fucking incredible.

Only critique (and it's dumb)

Did anyone else having a hard time taking Billy Russo seriously as a villain? Especially with the fight with Frank in the end....Billy Russo is not physically intimidating at all. He's a stick. That fight shouldn't have even been close. Injured Frank or not IMO. And why did he keep him alive again?
 

SENPAIatLARGE

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,501
Jon Bernthal deserves an Emmy for his performance. This show is so good that if you removed the punisher name and billed it as a hbo drama it still would kill it
 
Oct 30, 2017
8,967
Finished episode 11 yesterday. Definitely worth the watch, but like most of the other shows not rewatchable.

Bernthal is fucking amazing. Him suiting up is probably my favorite moment in any of the shows.
 

Disco

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,453
Hot take: Punisher and Karen have so much more chemistry than Daredevil and Karen.

thats an easy one to agree with. this show decimates the other netflix marvel shows. even madani and Prince Caspian, whose subplots would likely be so boring and make me question why I'm watching it in the other marvel stuff, keeps me interested.

i'm on episode 10 though so hopefully it sticks the landing. ive got some issues with the Frank characterization at times and how it tiptoes around the questionable politics regarding this character rather than face them head on but its the most enjoyable show marvel has put out on netflix. even daredevil season 1 which was the peak prior to it had me checking the clock multiple times and just being fed up with almost all the characters.

hope this gets a season 2 renewal that leans into more of the vigilante aspect of the character and mobs and such. please don't wait a few years wasting him on the other garbage instead.
 

sandyph

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,039
I thought it was about intimacy, the intimacy between lovers during sex and the intimacy between people who hate each other that commit violence against one another and how all that stuff is getting mixed up.

So it's a whole whack of crazy.

Or it can also be about how both gives Frank pleasure :)
 

Gorger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,628
Norway
Two episodes in and my biggest gripe is the god damn grain filter they force in all the Netflix Marvel shows that just ruins the quality on my 65'' UHD. Even in 4k the grain is so overpowering it looks like ants are crawling all over my screen. I have been watching so many good shows on Netflix lately where the quality was crystal clean, but all the Marvel shows look like ass. Other than that the show seems cool enough so far.
 

Deleted member 11069

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,001
Loved this show. Bernthal is fucking incredible.

Only critique (and it's dumb)

Did anyone else having a hard time taking Billy Russo seriously as a villain? Especially with the fight with Frank in the end....Billy Russo is not physically intimidating at all. He's a stick. That fight shouldn't have even been close. Injured Frank or not IMO. And why did he keep him alive again?

Totally agree with the spoiler.
Should not matter, his acting was totally fine but I DID think a couple of times that he needed some more creatine in his diet to help the "Anti Punisher" idea.
 

Dultimate

Member
Oct 27, 2017
652
Totally agree with the spoiler.
Should not matter, his acting was totally fine but I DID think a couple of times that he needed some more creatine in his diet to help the "Anti Punisher" idea.

Every time I looked at dude I couldn't help but think that. I get that he's a trained badass but damn dude, would it have killed you to do some push ups or take some protein shakes?
 

Dick Justice

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,542
Finished the season, I quite liked it. Helps that my expectations were tempered by the early reviews. A little too much filler, but at least it was somewhat interesting filler.

Also really hope they start turning Frank into the amoral sociopath that he's presented as in Ennis' MAX run. It's a far more interesting character overall. Get the idea they might do that if
they make it so that his sparing of Jigsaw ends up backfiring spectacularly.
 
Oct 28, 2017
22,596
I am a few episodes in and I'm bored. The supporting cast is terrible. Bernthal just broods in every scene without much nuance to any of his lines.

And I know there has to be more than Shohreh Aghdashloo to play a Muslim mother. This is getting sad.
 

Zerojul

Member
Oct 26, 2017
400
Paris, France
Really didn't expect to like the show much not being a fan of the character and all, but I loved it. Bernthal owns. I think I liked it even more than DD.
 

hydruxo

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,441
Damn, one of my favorite moments so far was when
Frank tries to snipe Rawlins but it ends up being bulletproof glass. Genuinely didn't expect that, thought they were just gonna have him take him out early there.
That shit was awesome.
 

Hex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,415
Great series all and all, some crazy violence.
Pacing I thought was very good from start to finish.
Only disappointments
Hidden content
You need to reply to this thread in order to see this content.
 

Kreed

The Negro Historian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,109
Really good season overall for the Punisher. I'm surprised to come into the thread and see the negative reviews prior to the show releasing on the first few pages. One thing I really appreciated is the show overall stayed consistent in quality throughout. While I don't feel like the show hit the highs of Daredevil Season 1, Jessica Jones, the first half of Daredevil Season 2, or the first half of Luke Cage, it never felt like it had a huge dip in quality the way the Marvel shows after Daredevil Season 1 have. My biggest complaint about the Punisher overall is
how much damage Frank took over the season. Outside of the first few episodes up to where he and Micro team up I never felt like Frank was as strong/smart as he appeared in Daredevil Season 2 outside of being able to take a ridiculous amount of injuries and heal super quickly. I would have preferred to see Frank take far less bullets and stab wounds while showing more combat ability and thinking at least until the second half.

Rating Punisher with the rest of Marvel's Netflix shows:

Daredevil S1
First half of Daredevil S2
First half of Luke Cage
Jessica Jones
Punisher
Second half of Daredevil S2
Second half of Luke Cage
Defenders
Iron Fist
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,747
Loved this show. Bernthal is fucking incredible.

Only critique (and it's dumb)

Did anyone else having a hard time taking Billy Russo seriously as a villain? Especially with the fight with Frank in the end....Billy Russo is not physically intimidating at all. He's a stick. That fight shouldn't have even been close. Injured Frank or not IMO. And why did he keep him alive again?

Eh. If you go back and look at the original members of Delta Force (for example), a lot of them look non-threatening. Now the guys today look more like MMA LHWs, but my point is that you can be a legit badass and not look like it.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,979
I'm a bit mixed on this, though overall I'd say I liked it more than I didn't.
Only real problems had with it were it can be kinda slow and is very predictable.

I loved Frank & Micro, made the slower parts not a show killer for me and the last 4-5 eps were good.

I don't think Frank deserved a happy ending though and the government people just saying "it's all good, have a nice life" was too much for me (which is saying something considering I have no problems with how much damage Frank takes.). Seemed like they didn't figure out a good way to end it.
Also, did Dianah just forget that Frank murdered her guy? The guy who is pretty much the only reason she was going after them all to begin with.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
i understand that this is a punisher show, guns are prevalent, but i didn't like how
how the only character that represent gun control was protrayed as a coward who just saying shit for politics, it's like the show is telling us that gun controls are bad...

still i love the show, it's the best marvel netflix show after daredevil

Felt the same way about that character. I dunno. It was super strange.

Loved the series and one of the best parts about it was how they made Frank, despite being so broken, seem like a character that could have had and still has the potential to make family and friends through strong characterization and Bernthal's own natural charm. Don't know if Castle is coming back in a big way for Daredevil S3 but I honestly wouldn't mind after this series. Despite some of the slowness with the inclusion of the Lewis storyline, this was one of the more consistent and least sluggish of Netflix's Marvel stuff. I didn't come away from it as frustrated with the 13 episode length as I did with the others.

Also, I see why people consider Karen a weak link but I actually liked her inclusion and
pesudo-romantic relationship with Frank.
Hope that's not something that's dropped after this season/series.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
Loved this show. Bernthal is fucking incredible.

Only critique (and it's dumb)

Did anyone else having a hard time taking Billy Russo seriously as a villain? Especially with the fight with Frank in the end....Billy Russo is not physically intimidating at all. He's a stick. That fight shouldn't have even been close. Injured Frank or not IMO. And why did he keep him alive again?

For me I thought he was a perfect foil to Frank Castle. Frank's war was driven by his need for revenge and to right the wrongs that he had, and that came at a cost, his sanity/ability to live a normal life. Whereas Russo was the guy who went after the superficial things in life at the cost of his honour and morality (or lack thereof considering he was betraying Frank well before the Castles' shootout). Frank kept him alive because he wanted Russo to feel the same everlasting mental torture that he had to deal with ever since losing his family.

...Though the more obvious answer is to develop Russo into his alter ego, Jigsaw.
 

Ferulci

Member
Oct 31, 2017
210
Just finished it. Easily the best Marvel series I've ever saw.
Hidden content
You need to reply to this thread in order to see this content.
 

enzo_gt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,299
Seriously, I almost skipped this show after not being that satisfied with Iron Fist and Defenders and I am so happy I didn't.

The acting is incredible from all the main actors and it's kind of masterful how it's constructed and how well they weave the characters' stories together. I might be getting ahead of myself because I still have 4ish episodes to go, but wow, this might just be DD S1/JJ tier stuff.
Also Dinah is also bae
 

BlueTsunami

Member
Oct 29, 2017
8,510
I wanted to like it but it felt like they could have gone greater lengths to dramatize the villains and the overarching scenario. At the end I just wanted it to be done. Felt like a dry take on the beats of a Punisher scenario. A base made from a greater sense of reality can be good at times but for a comic book character it can really just suck the enjoyment out from it.
 

Wink784

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,208
I can dig it. It finishes really strong. Interested to know what you think when you finish. Last two episodes especially were very satisfying.

It got stronger towards the end, but it felt like episode 12 was the highlight, the climax. 13 I didn't find necessary and to me it wasn't satisfying where everything ended up. I unfortunately have not changed my opinion too much. It's not a bad show, solid 6 point something, maybe 7.
I'm usually quite bad at predicting plot when watching a show, but here I saw everything coming. If that's the case I need at least to have really strong feelings towards the emotional stakes and that just wasn't the case. It didn't help that I felt like a tiny rewrite of a scene here and there would have prevented some rather jarring moments where furthering the plot was sacrificing logical and believable character behaviour. The whole part of the weapons truck heist and where that episode ends up was dumb for example and could've easily ended up in the same place without making everyone look stupid. There are many of these moments, but those are are nitpicks and I don't feel like spending too much time on it. The biggest problem remains that it just didn't make me care much for most of the characters.
What worked was Bernthal's performance (even if I didn't like the direction the character was taken in) and the dynamic between Punisher and Micro. I also liked the character of Curtis, I feel like they should've scratched everything to do with Karen and maybe give him more screen time instead as I felt there was too little of any side character to make me really care for one.
So yeah, I'm glad it's not a disaster like Iron Fist was, but I'm disappointed that they couldn't squeeze out something more interesting, especially since every scene featuring Punisher in Daredevil was gold.
 

Dr Doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,018
This the second best Marvel Netflix. It's Punisher Max. I thought they will back down from the violence. Nope. And you won't this this on Disney Streaming that's for sure.

Also that final fight and the result.... oh...oh.OOOOH

I want season 2 mob war.
 

Romars2021

Member
Nov 1, 2017
252
Man, this was a disappointment. I really loved franks character in s2 of daredevil, but nothing could save this script and directing.
Hate to say it, I put iron fist above this.
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
Just finishing up episode 6 now. I'm enjoying it, or I guess I'd say I'm still interested in it, but this isn't really what I expected from a show about The Punisher, y'know? Like, it's a well-done thing, I think it's well-written and I think the characters are pretty watchable. In terms of overall quality and craft I think it's probably better than any of the Marvel Netflix shows so far. It feels like a show that could have made it even without an established Marvel character's name as its title.

Buuuuut, call me a big dumb mouthbreathing idiot here, but I wish he was shooting guys more often. Isn't that kind of his thing? Isn't that pretty much what we're here for? You don't come to a Daredevil show to not watch him punch guys he can't see, right? They didn't even do a big Episode 3 action scene (I mean, I guess he shot some dudes in Episode 3, but they shot it like a bad music video with no continuity).

If he starts shooting the shit out of a bunch of guys in the next few episodes, then disregard all this, I suppose. But I really need to see some dudes getting got pretty soon.
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
Hah haaaa, what?

Lieutenant Pretty Boy has an Assassin's Creed wrist blade? Talk about taking you out of the moment.