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Marvel Studios' Ms. Marvel |OT| To Me, My Marvels (LGBTQIA+ Lives Matter, All Episodes on Disney+)

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Callibretto

Callibretto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,491
Indonesia
not meticulously planned, but they do have some kind of plan around 5 years in advance, and it's not a fixed plan either, if they come up with other ideas during those 5 years before the movie come out, they will change things up.
 
DiceHands

DiceHands

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,636
The finale wasnt great, but it was the most interested I had been in the series since maybe ep 2-3. Although I had my gripes with eps 1-2, I kind of wish they would have stuck with that style throughout. It felt like it got more and more away from that and more into regular MCU territory as the show went on. I think eps 4-5 were pretty bad (although I really liked the flashback scene during the partition).

Overall, I think I set myself up for disappointment with this series as I was looking for a more grounded hero origin story, but this one went all over the place way too quickly for my liking. The pacing was just not great and I think that probably has to do with them wanting to cram as much story in only 6 eps as possible so she is ready for the Marvels (that final scene def has me interested in what route they take that movie). I think this is one of those Marvel shows that really would have benefitted from a 10 episode plot, or at the very least, multiple seasons.

Btw - what was up with the DODC lady saying "lets not use lethal rounds", then a few scenes later, shouting FIRE! And her buddy opening up with a 9mm on Kamran?

For me, this is a C grade show. Might be a bit harsh, but I just think for the most part, I did not enjoy it as much as I wanted to. Still love Ms Marvel, but I think I would have enjoyed a different type of origin story for her. Not really sure where I would rank it in comparison to the other MCU TV shows, but its def towards the bottom, which makes me a bit sad.
 
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Big Baybee

Big Baybee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,775
First couple of episodes were great, everything else was just meh/ok. Glad to have her origin out of the way. Real glad they made her a mutant lol.
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
Marvel does plan out its stories well in advance - they probably do a bit into the 5-10 year scale. The problem is that it does so in relation to how much planning Hollywood normally gets (usually nothing), and fans project way too much into what this planning entails. Honestly given how haphazard individual productions can get, it's amazing that there's any cohesion. In Phase 4 the two projects that are tied together the strongest are WandaVision and Multiverse of Madness, and they barely communicated with each other!

DiceHands said:
The finale wasnt great, but it was the most interested I had been in the series since maybe ep 2-3. Although I had my gripes with eps 1-2, I kind of wish they would have stuck with that style throughout. It felt like it got more and more away from that and more into regular MCU territory as the show went on. I think eps 4-5 were pretty bad (although I really liked the flashback scene during the partition).

Overall, I think I set myself up for disappointment with this series as I was looking for a more grounded hero origin story, but this one went all over the place way too quickly for my liking. The pacing was just not great and I think that probably has to do with them wanting to cram as much story in only 6 eps as possible so she is ready for the Marvels (that final scene def has me interested in what route they take that movie). I think this is one of those Marvel shows that really would have benefitted from a 10 episode plot, or at the very least, multiple seasons.
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I agree with you but I think that the biggest problem is that the show is too ambitious for its own good. Ms. Marvel is super well suited for small scale low-stakes stories where her family and friends can play a key role. The farther the show moves away from that, the weaker it gets. And I think that's also its saving grace because the family and friends angle is just so damned strong. The best way that this show could have turned out is if the creators had enough faith that the small scale stuff is powerful enough to carry the show on its own because it absolutely was.

DiceHands said:
Btw - what was up with the DODC lady saying "lets not use lethal rounds", then a few scenes later, shouting FIRE! And her buddy opening up with a 9mm on Kamran?
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They wanted to avoid the optics of cop-standins trying to gun down kids inside a school. Once they're outside, the association to school shootings is weaker, so it's now a-ok!
 
Idde

Idde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,660
4Tran said:
They wanted to avoid the optics of cop-standins trying to gun down kids inside a school. Once they're outside, the association to school shootings is weaker, so it's now a-ok!
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Well, when she gave the order to take in two 'enhanced individuals' Kamala and Kamran weren't thought to be dangerous. Thus the non lethal rounds. Though you know...just talking to them would of course be better.

When Kamran came out of the school he seemed out of control, like he really wanted to kill people. He even threw a bus at innocent bystanders. Therefore the escalation to using 9mm bullets. Though obviously, this is the actual part where they should have used non lethal ammo. That's the impression I got anyway.
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
Idde said:
Well, when she gave the order to take in two 'enhanced individuals' Kamala and Kamran weren't thought to be dangerous. Thus the non lethal rounds. Though you know...just talking to them would of course be better.

When Kamran came out of the school he seemed out of control, like he really wanted to kill people. He even threw a bus at innocent bystanders. Therefore the escalation to using 9mm bullets. Though obviously, this is the actual part where they should have used non lethal ammo. That's the impression I got anyway.
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Deever was totally fine with blowing up the Circle Q, so she's not exactly shy about using lethal force right from the get go. Besides, my point about optics isn't about Damage Control - it's about Marvel!
 
Idde

Idde

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,660
4Tran said:
Deever was totally fine with blowing up the Circle Q, so she's not exactly shy about using lethal force right from the get go. Besides, my point about optics isn't about Damage Control - it's about Marvel!
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Oh yeah, you're right. Blowing up that store is kinda lethal as well. Going into a school with those stunner weapons indeed seemed to be for optics. Good point about Marvel, especially for them as well. Or perhaps it's just how Marvel does things. Going into high schools, trying to capture kids with actual assault rifle's isn't really their kind of brand :p
 
Theecliff

Theecliff

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,000
that was a decent finale, but it was a shame that they weren't able to match the energy of the first two episodes. i still fairly enjoyed most of it, but the Clandestine (and Red Dagger) plot was a dud, and the detour to Pakistan, whilst providing the show with an excuse to deliver some cool moments and a powerful history lesson (episode 5 was compelling as a small story in its own right), kinda derailed things. as a consequence, most of the different plots of the show weren't given enough time to breath, and the charming home and high school drama it opened on was kinda left by the wayside, as was the unique style it had established. the DODC encroaching on Kamala, her home and her religious community could have been plenty enough of an ongoing conflict to hang a small scale superhero series on, and if they were relent on keeping this as a 6 episode season, aspects like the Clandestine and the Red Daggers would have been better served cut entirely or hinted at for further seasons.
so all in all, this started as an 8/10, but ended up around a 6. i'm glad that i watched it, but it's frustrating feeling that it could have been great.

with all that being said, Iman Vellani's Ms Marvel was genuinely great though. even in the messiness, the best thing about Phase 4 so far is that it's given us a bunch of brilliantly charming new young actors and characters, and i can't wait to see them again.
 

PSI Rockin’ Ω

Member
Sep 6, 2020
1,280
I loved it. The third episode and basically everything with clan destine was awful, but I think they brought it back around. Although I was frustrated at not getting more street-level high school fun, the family stuff was just so good. The supporting cast is absolutely perfect. Her parents are both great. Her brother is great. The friend group is great. I loved that her mother gave her the suit and her father gave her the name.

The Ms Marvel comics hooked me entirely in those first few trades, and by the end of this series, I really do feel they've brought these characters to life.
 
GreenMamba

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,291
Alright, finally got around to seeing the finale.

Definitely a return to form after the past two episodes. It was fun seeing Karachi and her grandma was a good character but the Jersey City supporting cast is definitely the heart and soul of this show. The interactions between her family members and friends are always top notch.

The altercation in the high school was definitely cartoony but in a fun Home Alone style of way, and Zoe got a lot more time to shine than I thought she was going to get. Her trying to break the glass for the fire extinguisher was pretty funny. And I loved seeing her brother basically there to babysit her, haha. Also... this is a nonlethal weapon?!
1000


Definitely glad I was wrong that she didn't end up fighting Kamran in the end, making him the person she saves was the correct story choice. Do wish we had a little more Kamala and Bruno interaction in this episode though.

The origin of her superhero name was basically as good as it could have been done. I love how her entire superhero identity has basically been crafted piece by piece by her loved ones.

Of course, can't talk about the episode without discussing the, uh, you know, big reveal. Which everyone was just so damn adamant about not keeping to themselves. So I was definitely spoiled beforehand. Phooey. Oh well. It's definitely an interesting change and makes me wonder how they're going to approach it in the future. Her rolling it off as "just another label" definitely gets me excited for the mutant future in the MCU and how they handle it.

Seeing Carol in the post credits was a fun moment, interested to see how they build off of that in The Marvels. Definitely makes me think of how Rick Jones would switch with Mar Vell using the Nega Bands.

Overall I think I put this show in my upper MCU D+ show rankings along with Wandavision, Loki, and Moon Knight, though the lame villains plot holding it below those three for me.
 
GreenMamba

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,291
Oh, and it was great seeing the little bit of Zoe and Nakia interaction. They even sneaked in the cheek pinch:

FXqcGbRVsAAauOF

FXqcZ0wUEAAZbzE
 
klauskpm

klauskpm

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,245
Brazil
DiceHands said:
The finale wasnt great, but it was the most interested I had been in the series since maybe ep 2-3. Although I had my gripes with eps 1-2, I kind of wish they would have stuck with that style throughout. It felt like it got more and more away from that and more into regular MCU territory as the show went on. I think eps 4-5 were pretty bad (although I really liked the flashback scene during the partition).

Overall, I think I set myself up for disappointment with this series as I was looking for a more grounded hero origin story, but this one went all over the place way too quickly for my liking. The pacing was just not great and I think that probably has to do with them wanting to cram as much story in only 6 eps as possible so she is ready for the Marvels (that final scene def has me interested in what route they take that movie). I think this is one of those Marvel shows that really would have benefitted from a 10 episode plot, or at the very least, multiple seasons.

Btw - what was up with the DODC lady saying "lets not use lethal rounds", then a few scenes later, shouting FIRE! And her buddy opening up with a 9mm on Kamran?

For me, this is a C grade show. Might be a bit harsh, but I just think for the most part, I did not enjoy it as much as I wanted to. Still love Ms Marvel, but I think I would have enjoyed a different type of origin story for her. Not really sure where I would rank it in comparison to the other MCU TV shows, but its def towards the bottom, which makes me a bit sad.
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4Tran said:
Marvel does plan out its stories well in advance - they probably do a bit into the 5-10 year scale. The problem is that it does so in relation to how much planning Hollywood normally gets (usually nothing), and fans project way too much into what this planning entails. Honestly given how haphazard individual productions can get, it's amazing that there's any cohesion. In Phase 4 the two projects that are tied together the strongest are WandaVision and Multiverse of Madness, and they barely communicated with each other!


I agree with you but I think that the biggest problem is that the show is too ambitious for its own good. Ms. Marvel is super well suited for small scale low-stakes stories where her family and friends can play a key role. The farther the show moves away from that, the weaker it gets. And I think that's also its saving grace because the family and friends angle is just so damned strong. The best way that this show could have turned out is if the creators had enough faith that the small scale stuff is powerful enough to carry the show on its own because it absolutely was.


They wanted to avoid the optics of cop-standins trying to gun down kids inside a school. Once they're outside, the association to school shootings is weaker, so it's now a-ok!
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I agree with you both. To me the 1st and 2nd episodes were amazing. I loved the characters and the series identity. I really loved everyone and how they were portrayed. And the story was great so far. Then the 3rd episode happens and things start to accelerate, take some weird turns, and grows bigger than it should be. Honestly, I thought that the powers were going to be the hardest thing for me, but they weren't. I was able to accept it pretty well. The series directing was my biggest disappointment. I was super sad seeing episodes 4 to 6. It totally needed more episodes, or have ignored everything about the powers origins. If they only had stayed in town with Kamala learning how to use her powers and fighting that bigoted cop, I think the show would have been pretty good.

(Ms Marvel last episode spoiler)
Also while I was happy with how Kamala's father told her that her name has a close meaning to Marvel, I cringed when he said "you are ours Ms. Marvel".
 
GreenMamba

GreenMamba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,291
It is really funny how the MCU has taken Kamala, the crown jewel of Marvel's Inhuman push, and made her a mutant. Just a complete hardcore company line reversal, it's amazing.

My take on her mutation is that her X-gene specifically allows her to access the noor within her but as of yet still needs some sort of conduit to do so, which the bangle provides. As of yet she can't use her powers without it. And I'm guessing Kamran is specifically *not* a mutant as he was forcibly changed by his mother's noor, and this is why he was having a hard go at it.

Yeah when Wanda gets brought back they're going to be tripping over themselves to confirm that her and her brother are mutants.

Very exciting stuff!
 
Rellyrell28

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,896
GreenMamba said:
It is really funny how the MCU has taken Kamala, the crown jewel of Marvel's Inhuman push, and made her a mutant. Just a complete hardcore company line reversal, it's amazing.

My take on her mutation is that her X-gene specifically allows her to access the noor within her but as of yet still needs some sort of conduit to do so, which the bangle provides. As of yet she can't use her powers without it. And I'm guessing Kamran is specifically *not* a mutant as he was forcibly changed by his mother's noor, and this is why he was having a hard go at it.

Yeah when Wanda gets brought back they're going to be tripping over themselves to confirm that her and her brother are mutants.

Very exciting stuff!
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10 bucks Magneto will be the one to pull her out of the rubbish to save or revive her.
 
OP
OP
Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,299
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GreenMamba said:
It is really funny how the MCU has taken Kamala, the crown jewel of Marvel's Inhuman push, and made her a mutant. Just a complete hardcore company line reversal, it's amazing.

My take on her mutation is that her X-gene specifically allows her to access the noor within her but as of yet still needs some sort of conduit to do so, which the bangle provides. As of yet she can't use her powers without it. And I'm guessing Kamran is specifically *not* a mutant as he was forcibly changed by his mother's noor, and this is why he was having a hard go at it.

Yeah when Wanda gets brought back they're going to be tripping over themselves to confirm that her and her brother are mutants.

Very exciting stuff!
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To be fair, the creators originally wanted Kamala to be a mutant anyway. It was just a matter of when she was created.
 
DiceHands

DiceHands

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,636
Noog said:
I really think this show and FATWS would be leagues better if they cut out the villain groups. I understand wanting Kamala to go to Pakistan in season 1, but the Clandestine's just didn't work for me. Similar to the Flagsmashers. This show was best when it was Kamala and her friends and family in New Jersey. Just like FATWS was best when it was Sam and Bucky dealing with John Walker. DODC were fine and interesting villians.
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Agreed. It really feels like the D+ shows all have the same outline lately. I am hoping She Hulk breaks that mold with the 9 episode arc
 
Hoggle

Hoggle

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Mar 25, 2021
6,109
Finally finished the season. Marvel needs to stop with this underdeveloped world ending bad guy shit. Would have fathered an entire series on Kamala learning how to use her powers with her friends and family. Build a villain up and then have them in season two. But I belatedly even understood or cared about the bad guys intentions and the episodes in Pakistan sucked all the fun and soul out the series.

At least I think Kamala is the best casting in a long time.
 
Pachinko

Pachinko

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Oct 25, 2017
954
Canada
I watched episode 1/2 as they came out and took a breather for 3/4 especially given all the sour faces in here but ... I got caught up on monday night to be able to watch episode 6 this past wednesday. I dunno what to make of this show overall.

I genuinely love the cast and the character but I really wasn't big on *how* this story was presented by the end. It felt like it needed 12 episodes to cook properly even if some things didn't need to be shown (I groaned a little about the Nakia running for Mosque rep thing , dreading it would take up a bunch of time going forward but was happy that the next time you see her it's all wrapped up off screen). Just a solid introduction to Kamala and her world but ... honestly a rough ride for all the other stuff that just gets busier and busier as time goes on. The lack of budget did them no favours either , thanks to the decision to go with crystalline projections and underpaid , overworked , rushed VFX artists , Ms Marvels powers just never looked interesting or exciting outside of a couple scenes towards the end. The middle of the story feels almost like they crammed an entire seasons worth of ideas into 95 minutes and then were forced to wrap up everything immediately afterwards.

I'm glad the target audience seems to love the show though , I'm glad the rocky origin is overwith too , I want to see more of this character on screen and it wasn't like I hated anything. It just more rushed and undercooked than I would have liked.

I've only played the 2020 Avengers game and read 1 volume of the TPB comic and I much prefer those versions to this one as far as Ms Marvel is concerned. I genuinely believe the new back story is simply too many terms and characters and it takes way to long for the character to actually be allowed to shine on screen other than to service that same new back story.

My "forced at gun point" that no one asked for ranking of these MCU shows -
1) Loki ****
2) Moon Knight ***1/2
3) Hawkeye ***1/2
4) Wanda Vision ***
6) Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***
7) Ms Marvel ***
8) What if ? **

It's honestly all pretty close but the only show out of all of these I didn't find any warts on was Loki. The rest all have similar problems, the middle of the shows feel too drawn out and the endings are all just a low budget version of the last act of a marvel film made for 1/6th the budget.
 
Rellyrell28

Rellyrell28

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,896
Rankings for me so far
1. Wandavision
2. Ms. Marvel
3. Looking
4. Hawkeye
5. Moon Knight
6. Falcon and The Winter Soldier
7. What If
 
The Khan family survived The Snap/Blip
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    • Richiek

    Richiek

    Member
    Nov 2, 2017
    12,063
    thedirect.com

    Did Ms. Marvel Survive Thanos' Snap? MCU Directors Respond (Exclusive)

    Ms. Marvel directors Bilall Fallah and Adil El Arbi shared Kamala Khan's fate during Thanos' Snap.
    thedirect.com thedirect.com

    In an exclusive interview with The Direct's Richard Nebens, Ms. Marvel directing team Billal Fallah and Adil El Arbi addressed whether Kamala Khan or her family were victims of Thanos' Snap and The Blip during Avengers: Endgame.

    The pair confirmed that the entire Khan family lived through the five-year Blip, but they also mentioned how they approached that theory with Marvel Studios President Kevin Feige. When they asked Feige what happened in this time, Feige's normal response would be "Don't worry about it," having El Arbi and Fallah focus more on the story for Ms. Marvel and making that the best it could be:
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    • Fuzzy

    Fuzzy

    Completely non-threatening
    The Fallen
    Oct 25, 2017
    18,127
    Toronto
    "Don't worry about it" is the philosophy more people need to take for things that don't matter. If it mattered then there would've been something shown on screen.
     
    Pachinko

    Pachinko

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    954
    Canada
    yeah that's a solid way to see things I think. The blip should only really matter to characters that were already introduced before it happened either because they existed before infinity war OR they were retroactively inserted to be around prior to IW.
     
    demosthenes

    demosthenes

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    11,591
    Hoggle said:
    Finally finished the season. Marvel needs to stop with this underdeveloped world ending bad guy shit. Would have fathered an entire series on Kamala learning how to use her powers with her friends and family. Build a villain up and then have them in season two. But I belatedly even understood or cared about the bad guys intentions and the episodes in Pakistan sucked all the fun and soul out the series.

    At least I think Kamala is the best casting in a long time.
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    Just finished and generally this. Series was really weak due to a lot of choices they made, and the writing was just bad at times. Everything was also so convenient. "We need everyone to show up at the school", done. "We need Kamran to be able to escape easily", have Kamala punch a whole in the ground, done.

    It seemed like they had an idea for a story, maybe they originally had 10 episodes and when it was condensed down to 6 instead of rethinking it they just said how can we stuff this into the new format.

    Kamala/Bruno/Nakia/Kamala's family were the best parts of the show.
     
    Rellyrell28

    Rellyrell28

    Avenger
    Oct 25, 2017
    28,896
    So I believe Yelena is the only confirmed phase 4 blip victim. And yes I'm gonna be technical and not count Monica but I'm probably forgetting someone else
     
    GreenMamba

    GreenMamba

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    10,291
    I have to say, having just watched Peter Parker lose all of his friends in family in No Way Home, it was cathartic to see Kamala have such a large support network.
    800

    800
     
    deimosmasque

    deimosmasque

    Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
    Moderator
    Apr 22, 2018
    14,183
    Tampa, Fl
    Finally finished it tonight.

    Loved the ending so much

    "I share a name with Carol Freaking Danvers!?"

    Even without the spoiler I would have called the mutant thing because of multiple references to her genetics being special.

    Also fuck that woman from Damage Control, your boss told you to stand the fuck down, what did you think was going to happen?

    I wouldn't be surprised however if something akin to Kamala's Law in the comics is put in place between this and Spider-Man. "No underage superheroes"
     
    GreenMamba

    GreenMamba

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    10,291
    Yeah I do have to wonder what was going through Agent Deever's mind when she deliberately disobeyed orders and fired on a bunch of kids in front of a huge crowd. Did she think her boss's bosses would reward her for bringing them in or was she just that bent on her brand of justice?
     
    Rellyrell28

    Rellyrell28

    Avenger
    Oct 25, 2017
    28,896
    GreenMamba said:
    Yeah I do have to wonder what was going through Agent Deever's mind when she deliberately disobeyed orders and fired on a bunch of kids in front of a huge crowd. Did she think her boss's bosses would reward her for bringing them in or was she just that bent on her brand of justice?
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    Nothing about her actions made sense she was just salty they called it off
     
    T002 Tyrant

    T002 Tyrant

    Member
    Nov 8, 2018
    8,948
    Just realised one of the minor characters is a YouTube reactor with his family and managed to keep a straight face whenever he appeared on screen. The character is Miguel if you're wondering!
     
    m_shortpants

    m_shortpants

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    11,205
    Random thought I had while trying to sleep at 4AM. Did no one in Kamala's family get blipped? They seemed way too...put together...otherwise.

    Ever since I watched The Leftovers, the blip just seems like a huge hole to gloss over. As far as I recall, it's not mentioned once in the show? Who in the show was blipped? Who wasn't? Just feels like it was such a huge in universe event that it would be core to so many peoples identities and headspaces.
     
    Volimar

    Volimar

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    Oct 25, 2017
    38,357
    GreenMamba said:
    Yeah I do have to wonder what was going through Agent Deever's mind when she deliberately disobeyed orders and fired on a bunch of kids in front of a huge crowd. Did she think her boss's bosses would reward her for bringing them in or was she just that bent on her brand of justice?
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    They were pretty heavily leaning on her being a bigot for the whole season. Against people with powers as well as Muslims. She really came off as someone abusing her position.
     
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