Marvel Studios' Loki |OT| See You Soon (All of Season 1 is on Disney+)

New002 · Jul 15, 2021

BossAttack said:
Everyone has their own view. But to me, It was just...weird, and not in the good weird. It felt like he read the script once and was doing a first pass with minimal direction. And the camera itself could barely keep up with his choices. Like, I didn't get menace. I didn't get "cuco" crazy man. Or a man cursed with too much knowledge. It just felt like some weird performance.

You know I loved the last ep but this was bugging me while watching it. I couldn't tell if the character was annoyingly/poorly acted or a fun take. I liked *moments* of his portrayal, but as a whole...yeah it was weird and not in a good way.

Like I understand they probably wanted to make him come across a little crazy...and who wouldn't be in that scenario...but this felt like a miss.

Deleted member 7051 · Jul 15, 2021

jph139 said:
I know people keep talking about "well, they say one timeline, but it's really one timeline made up of a bundle of timelines," but like... do we have any actual solid evidence of that beyond potential subtext and wishful thinking?

Like, Kang says he "isolated their timeline," which I gotta take at face value. There's no other timelines intersecting. No other universes. Just one path for all events to follow linearly. There's probably other universes (as seen in the opening, there's the "real world" which is in its own little bubble), but none that have any impact or connection to the MCU.

Timelines and universes, as terms, are interchangeable because each timeline is its own universe. Nexus events are events that drastically alter the predetermined path for those timelines or universes as according to Kang's Sacred Timeline and if allowed to go beyond a certain point those nexus events give birth to entirely new universes.

Combining what The Ancient One said in Endgame with what we learned from Loki, a simple example is... Taking the Time Gem from 2012 is a nexus event that creates a new timeline, a new universe, and the red line - the point of no return for that timeline or universe - is when Dormammu shows up in 2016 and Doctor Strange doesn't have the Time Gem to stop him.

Red · Jul 15, 2021

I didn't get "crazy" from Majors' performance. It was more "bored lonely guy." Someone who is used to talking to himself and doesn't have very much to do. But not off-the-wall nuts. He's got his faculties, he knows he's right, and he's confident in the outcomes he's surmised. He doesn't care what others do with the information he has to share because he's a bit bored of everything. His humor seems completely sane and rational, he's just got no need for niceties or pretense.

Ignatz Mouse · Jul 15, 2021

TheKeyPit said:
I too was angry that the movie "Seven" just revealed its antagonist out of nowhere at the end.

I wasn't.

I liked this episode and the reveal just fine, but this is the dumbest comparison I have seen in ages. The Seven antagonist isn't seen until the end, but he has a presence and his reveal is consistent with that. HWR does in fact come out of nowhere. I think it works, but it's not at all like John Doe, who has been leaving clues and is even seen from a distance.

TyrantII · Jul 15, 2021

jph139 said:
I know people keep talking about "well, they say one timeline, but it's really one timeline made up of a bundle of timelines," but like... do we have any actual solid evidence of that beyond potential subtext and wishful thinking?

Like, Kang says he "isolated their timeline," which I gotta take at face value. There's no other timelines intersecting. No other universes. Just one path for all events to follow linearly. There's probably other universes (as seen in the opening, there's the "real world" which is in its own little bubble), but none that have any impact or connection to the MCU.

I think it was poorly visualized, but the shot of them pulling out of the two universes in the title credits, and then even further pulling out of the sacred timeline to the void and citadel visually represents it.

Each of those universes is basically a different way to visualize one specific string along the woven rope of the sacred timeline.

So there's a finite multiverse under HHR as long as the other universes don't spawn a Kang worthy of imperiling the status quo. Any time random chance causes a variation, it needs to weave into the rope (not be different enough to challenge HHR) or it's pruned before it starts to branch into the natural web of multiverses.

fierygunrob said:
I keep thinking about the implications of the TVA and what it means for endgame.

It's a lot simpler after the last episode, since we now know the TVA / HHR objective is to only prun universes that give rise to rival Kangs/HHRs.

If it doesn't, it's fair to assume it fits nicely in the woven rope of the sacred timeline and allowed to continue.

They're not policing the timeline, they're policing you.

Nateo said:
So timelines are new universes, which is weird cause well Infinity Stones aren't meant to work in other universes but when the Avengers Time Heisted they did it from technically another universe which means the stones shouldn't have worked. I still think MCU cocked up time travel.

Tony's form of time travel can only travel up and down their own string, no changes. Taking the stones did create a branch, but the Avengers didn't have the technology to "jump tracks".

As for the Infinity stones, they were created at some point along a string (a specific universe). Best to just think they only work in that string they were created in and it's branches from the point of their creation. Any universes branches before their creation have their own Infinity stones that work along their own branches.

Ignatz Mouse · Jul 15, 2021

Nateo said:
Except Loki reveals that the MC Universe timeline branches are what will be Multiverses which is my point. MCU Multiverse arent seperate universes at all like the comics they are new timelines. Thats what they have done here, Loki establishes this and at the end the sacred timeline is no longer looked after so now "Their own universe" is branching out at different points in time to create the multiverse so the stones from any point in time would work in any point in any other time which contradicts the comics and how it all works. So I guess in essence since MCU Earth is a multiverse entity in Marvel Comics ( Earth-199999 ) that this isn't the multiverse we would normally see but a sub set of time lines from Earth-199999's universes timeline.

Yeah, the conflation of alternate realities with alternate timelines causes the given explanations to break down. Worse, even, when you consider that the examples given of the causes of branching are as simple as choices made with free will. I know some hay was made earlier in this thread of "timelines of multiverses" but they pretty clearly show that branches to the timeline *are* the multiverse.

jph139 · Jul 15, 2021

Winny（๑•̀ㅂ•́）و said:
Timelines and universes, as terms, are interchangeable because each timeline is its own universe. Nexus events are events that drastically alter the predetermined path for those timelines or universes as according to Kang's Sacred Timeline and if allowed to go beyond a certain point those nexus events give birth to entirely new universes.

Combining what The Ancient One said in Endgame with what we learned from Loki, a simple example is... Taking the Time Gem from 2012 is a nexus event that creates a new timeline, a new universe, and the red line - the point of no return for that timeline or universe - is when Dormammu shows up in 2016 and Doctor Strange doesn't have the Time Gem to stop him.

I think that's a fair interpretation, but Kang says: "Once I isolated our timeline, all I had to do was manage the flow of time and prevent any further branches." Doesn't that imply that he cut off this timeline (the main MCU universe) from all others, and then made sure that no others ever occur by trimming all branches?

Taking the Time Gem in 2012 creates a nexus event, which creates a branch. Why are we assuming that branch wasn't trimmed, like every other branch? Once the Time Gem is taken back to the "main universe," it's no longer a necessary part of the Avengers plan.

Ignatz Mouse · Jul 15, 2021

a916 said:
I don't know, that kind of makes it seem like he's more Ultron than Thanos (in MCU film terms). I'd rather they build up the villain because then there's some lead up to it instead of just neatly containing it to one (or two) films.

One of the things that makes the original Galactus story work is that it's an omnipotent threat out of nowhere. You could lay the seeds of his existence before he appears, but Galactus doesn't scheme. He shows up to dinner.

shadowman16 · Jul 15, 2021

Foltzie said:
I suspect if another Marvel vs Capcom is coming, Shuma Gorath won't have a problem being included since Fiege seems to have mitigated the prior licensing strategy. Other than wanting to be featured characters into the rooster (ala Rocket), fan favorites will likely be fine.

My larger concern would be micro-transactions or DLC.

DLC was great with SFV, but unfortunately people rejected the idea of getting characters for free so normal season/character passes would be a thing.

But the licensing issue with newer Marvel games have been sorted out, so at least we'll not have X-Men or FF issues going forward in any game.

T002 Tyrant · Jul 15, 2021

Wait a minute, Loki literally just enabled Steve Rogers to live his life with Peggy.

BossAttack · Jul 15, 2021

Veelk said:
To be honest, I haven't really liked this show. I think it's partially because I wanted Loki to be a bit more in touch with his mythology, and this show basically totally divorced him from that. He didn't even feel like he was particularly smart, tricksy, or even mischievous in the back half of the show and him being a god of norse mythology had little to do with anything going on aside from the backstory stuff. Really, Loki just became a kind of fluff ball character who just wants to take care of his friends and outright scoffs at the idea of being ambitious or deceptive or clever, and that's not really what I was here for, I guess.

But okay, that's just my expectations and the show clearly wants to do something else. Well, I can't say I'm in love with what they did do. Sylvie and Loki's relationship was not one I was incredibly invested in, so to make it the crux of Loki's emotional stakes means there was a disconnect. It's not really bad in any way, it's just that it seems the only thing to it really is "Oh tee hee hee, the strange but totally sensible idea that Loki would fall in love with a Loki", which is a neat character quirk but not THAT neat. Mobius and Loki feel more developed than this, and I really think that its Owen Wilson embuing Mobius with this strange, but affable personality that's really entertaining to watch. Like, I just like hearing Mobius say things.

Still, the finale is....well, it's a half hour long conversation about the ethics of killing god, which I would absolutely fucking love, except the conversation is really....well, dumb? Kang basically presents us with two different choices where one is just explicitly extremely bad and the other can be good but built on hypocrisy. When I first heard it, my assumption was that he was manufacturing consent in some way. Present two different options, one of them clearly way worse than the other, which leads to most people selecting the less bad one that you want. The clear correct option here is for the Loki's to figure out what they really want and get that, and don't entertain his dichonomy at all. And I still feel that's the real answer here. Take the control of the TVA away from him, but instead of being the new heads of the TVA, just find a way to run it the way they want. Let the timeline branch, but selectively prune the worst of the timelines if they want to be benevolent about it, or only prune Kang himself from the timeline so that he doesn't fuck shit up the way he does, or whatever. And frankly, I'm really disappointed in Sylvie for not being more creative. She just wants Kang to suffer for fucking up her life, right? Well, has she ever heard of torture? I guess the implication is that Kang only dies because he allowed her to kill him and even with the TVA she couldn't overpower him, but it's not like she knows/believes that.

I just find it fairly disappointing that both of them unquestioningly bought into Kang's dilemma so easily. They doubted in the sense that they thought he was lying, but they never bothered to question doing something else with him and not playing his game.

Idk what this show is supposed to be, tbh. It's not introspective enough to really be a character study, it doesn't do nearly enough weird timeline stuff for me to be impressed by the time shenanigans, it basically abandoned it's norse roots but for some bits of trivia and backstory, and it's not smart enough to give me any real pause with it's philosophy stuff.

I think I actually liked WandaVision and Falcon and the Winter Soldier better. WandaVision felt like it was atleast somewhat committed to being a psychological study of grief, which was cool, and while I really think Falcon fell apart at the end, the characters are REALLY charismatic and enjoyable to watch. This....it feels like I should easily like this the best, and I give it props for being the one Marvel show to not do a big epic final battle at the end and instead try to be a moral choice that is dependent on Loki's character development, but it just doesn't land when I think it's ultimatum is dumb and don't like the character Loki turned into.

Your take echoes mine. You hit exactly what I said, "It's not introspective enough to really be a character study, it doesn't do nearly enough weird timeline stuff for me to be impressed by the time shenanigans."

Marvel Studios' Loki |OT| See You Soon (All of Season 1 is on Disney+) Entertainment - Comics - OT

I too was angry that the movie "Seven" just revealed its antagonist out of nowhere at the end.

www.resetera.com

Veelk · Jul 15, 2021

T002 Tyrant said:
Wait a minute, Loki literally just enabled Steve Rogers to live his life with Peggy.

With how much of a softy this new loki is, he probably officiated their wedding himself

a916 · Jul 15, 2021

Ignatz Mouse said:
One of the things that makes the original Galactus story work is that it's an omnipotent threat out of nowhere. You could lay the seeds of his existence before he appears, but Galactus doesn't scheme. He shows up to dinner.

Yeah I'd like those little seeds to be sprinkled in, just to kind of feed the lead up. But at the same time, I wonder how literal they'll be to Galactus and if Fiege will indeed just go with "we hungry" or they'll tweak it a bit.

devenger · Jul 15, 2021

LinkStrikesBack said:
We really didn't know that. In Dr. Strange 1, the Ancient one literally asks Strange "Who are you in this vast multiverse", which obviously makes no goddamn sense if the multiverse didn't exist until now. It's a retcon, and that's fine, they shouldn't hamstring themselves by refusing to retcon stuff for the good of the story going forward, but it was still there.

We did know that when the title for Dr Strange 2 was revealed. There had to be a multiverse at the end of Loki no matter what.

Red · Jul 15, 2021

Ignatz Mouse said:
One of the things that makes the original Galactus story work is that it's an omnipotent threat out of nowhere. You could lay the seeds of his existence before he appears, but Galactus doesn't scheme. He shows up to dinner.

Are there any Galactus stories worth reading? I've never been a fan of the character, for exactly the reason you've described. His motivation is too simple. He feels like a giant Power Rangers monster that exists to facilitate team-up stories.

Ignatz Mouse · Jul 15, 2021

J-Skee said:
Question about Majors' performance: I see a lot of people saying they're okay with it because he's clearly portraying a version of Kang that doesn't exist yet. Would you be okay with it if the Conqueror acted like this?

I'm certainly okay with Immortus acting like that. Dude always was a weasel.

Pai Pai Master · Jul 15, 2021

Red said:
Are there any Galactus stories worth reading? I've never been a fan of the character, for exactly the reason you've described. His motivation is too simple. He feels like a giant Power Rangers monster that exists to facilitate team-up stories.

Ultimates by Al Ewing is the modern 616's Galactus origin story.

And it just has a fucking awesome team.

Deleted member 30544 · Jul 15, 2021

Question, when Mobius is talking about vampires, he is talking about...Morbius?

Pai Pai Master · Jul 15, 2021

Fercho said:
Question, when Mobius is talking about vampires, he is talking about...Morbius?

stopping He Who Remains may have just unleashed Dracula on the MCU, leading to Blade....

YaoGuia · Jul 15, 2021

jph139 said:
I know people keep talking about "well, they say one timeline, but it's really one timeline made up of a bundle of timelines," but like... do we have any actual solid evidence of that beyond potential subtext and wishful thinking?

We see it visually in the opening of this episode, the big timeline loop that we zoom out of is made of a bunch of timelines (multiverses) moving in parallel, together, which matches the visual of the line in the TVA headquarters where the big line (made up of a bunch of multiverses) is kept together within certain bounds.

T002 Tyrant · Jul 15, 2021

Also there needs to be an edit of Miss Minutes in horror movie jumpscares like Miss Minutes appearing to Georgie in the drain.

Nateo · Jul 15, 2021

TyrantII said:
Tony's form of time travel can only travel up and down their own string, no changes. Taking the stones did create a branch, but the Avengers didn't have the technology to "jump tracks".

As for the Infinity stones, they were created at some point along a string (under verse). Best to just think they only work in that string they were created in and it's branches from that point. Any universes branches before their creation have their own Infinity stones.

There were no branches at that point in time. Hence its obvious they could not jump the tracks. The stones were created at the beginning of the universe IIRC as they are made up of the key parts of of it.

a916 · Jul 15, 2021

People keep sharing that Donald Glover meme about Dr Strange walking in after this finale and... I don't get it at all.

Originally Dr Strange was supposed to come out before Loki. (and they were filming it in 2020 as well, after Loki had wrapped earlier in 2020) Strange was pushed back to 2022 because of COVID.

Ignatz Mouse · Jul 15, 2021

Red said:
Are there any Galactus stories worth reading? I've never been a fan of the character, for exactly the reason you've described. His motivation is too simple. He feels like a giant Power Rangers monster that exists to facilitate team-up stories.

The original is good, if dated. But it's not about Galactus as a character, it's about a force of nature, essentially. And the deal with the original appearance of the Surfer is that he is cold, alien, and indifferent, but is managed to be reached out to by humanity. (Later Surfer stories would contradict this portrayal, of course, and give him a very human, tragic backstory.)

Galactus is originally just personified nature. He doesn't really have a character at all.

There's a later story in the Byrne FF run worth reading as well, which is the best version where a personality is involved. I won't go into it since that would be spoilers, but I think it would address your concerns.

Lotus · Jul 15, 2021

a916 said:
People keep sharing that Donald Glover meme about Dr Strange walking in after this finale and... I don't get it at all.

Originally Dr Strange was supposed to come out before Loki. (and they were filming it in 2020 as well, after Loki had wrapped earlier in 2020) Strange was pushed back to 2022 because of COVID.

It's just a meme lol

Pai Pai Master · Jul 15, 2021

Ignatz Mouse said:
There's a later story in the Byrne FF run worth reading as well, which is the best version where a personality is involved. I won't go into it since that would be spoilers, but I think it would address your concerns.

that whole dang run is essential reading as far as I'm concerned

The Unsent · Jul 15, 2021

TheKeyPit said:
I too was angry that the movie "Seven" just revealed its antagonist out of nowhere at the end.

I wasn't.

I thought it was a great inversion where John Doe just walks into the police station, covered in blood, and he surrenders. Exciting and intense. Guy in an office explaining the mythos, until some ambigious plot mechanics say he can die.. I don't find that as exciting.

Nateo · Jul 15, 2021

a916 said:
People keep sharing that Donald Glover meme about Dr Strange walking in after this finale and... I don't get it at all.

Originally Dr Strange was supposed to come out before Loki. (and they were filming it in 2020 as well, after Loki had wrapped earlier in 2020) Strange was pushed back to 2022 because of COVID.

I feel as if Dr Strange was pushed back for more reasons than COVID and having done so went through some changes. As Loki Wandavision and Spiderman will lead directly into it all. And Spiderman is before Dr Strange.

Dalek · Jul 15, 2021

Pai Pai Master said:
Ultimates by Al Ewing is the modern 616's Galactus origin story.

And it just has a fucking awesome team.

It kills me that this book still isn't ongoing.

Eamon · Jul 15, 2021

ARobotCalledV said:
I find it really interesting so many like Majors' acting. I loved him in Lovecraft Country but thought he was awful here, it lacked any sort of presence inside of the world. Reminded me way too much of Eisenberg's performance in Batman v Superman.

This is largely how I feel aswell.

Also maybe it is just me, but I am pretty tired of Marvel pulling the rug out from under us for their villain reveals. At a certain point, it is no longer novel or surprising for the villain to not be who they have been alluding to (or to be some goofy, or awkward dude). It is just annoying.

I hope the actual Kang will be an intimidating force that commands the screen whenever he is on it.

Pai Pai Master · Jul 15, 2021

Eamon696 said:
This is largely how I feel aswell.

Maybe it is just me, but I am pretty tired of Marvel pulling the rug out from under us for their villain reveals. At a certain point, it is no longer novel or surprising. It is just annoying.

How'd the pull the rug out here? This is just an additional version of Kang/Immortus that doesn't exist in the comics. I didn't find anything annoying about it, in fact I loved that they added an additional layer to the Kang vs. Immortus rivalry that's more terrifying than either but in a different way.

Kang is a very different person from this "He Who Remains" no one should expect Majors to portray them in the same way. Even if he shows up as Immortus in another form.

PlanetSmasher · Jul 15, 2021

a916 said:
People keep sharing that Donald Glover meme about Dr Strange walking in after this finale and... I don't get it at all.

Originally Dr Strange was supposed to come out before Loki. (and they were filming it in 2020 as well, after Loki had wrapped earlier in 2020) Strange was pushed back to 2022 because of COVID.

I think the version of Strange 2: Electric Magealoo that Derrickson was working on was likely a VERY different film, both tonally AND narratively, than the one Raimi made. The script was likely completely redone, and during that reboot phase they probably repositioned it to now feed directly out of Wandavision and this.

There was probably a big "come to Jesus" moment when they realized 2 Strange 2 Magical would be getting delayed and they decided to make it the payoff for the multiverse stuff rather than the intro for it.

Kard8p3 · Jul 15, 2021

jph139 said:
Taking the Time Gem in 2012 creates a nexus event, which creates a branch. Why are we assuming that branch wasn't trimmed, like every other branch? Once the Time Gem is taken back to the "main universe," it's no longer a necessary part of the Avengers plan.

Wasn't it explained that returning the time gem to 2012 was basically instantly after they leave with it, to the perception of those in 2012? There wouldn't be enough time for a nexus event to occur.

CaptainKashup · Jul 15, 2021

Eamon696 said:
I hope the actual Kang will be an intimidating force that commands the screen whenever he is on it.

He will.
The fact that the first Kang we meet is a silly, crazy and weird old dude will make the actual Kang the Conqueror reveal a lot more significant and scary.

Eamon · Jul 15, 2021

Pai Pai Master said:
How'd the pull the rug out here? This is just an additional version of Kang/Immortus that doesn't exist in the comics. I didn't find anything annoying about it, in fact I loved that they added an additional layer to the Kang vs. Immortus rivalry that's more terrifying than either but in a different way.

Kang is a very different person from this "He Who Remains" no one should expect Majors to portray them in the same way. Even if he shows up as Immortus in another form.

Speaking purely from my perspective here (I know plenty of folks love the He Who Remains reveal and performance), I just did not enjoy how awkward and outlandish the performance was - I found it all quite annoying.

Fushichou187 · Jul 15, 2021

Red said:
I didn't get "crazy" from Majors' performance. It was more "bored lonely guy." Someone who is used to talking to himself and doesn't have very much to do. But not off-the-wall nuts. He's got his faculties, he knows he's right, and he's confident in the outcomes he's surmised. He doesn't care what others do with the information he has to share because he's a bit bored of everything. His humor seems completely sane and rational, he's just got no need for niceties or pretense.

Yeah that was my read as well. Confidence in his choices that is not only born out of his narcissism but also out of lived experience, knowing just how bad the other Kangs are by comparison.

I loved Majors here. His scene, body language, and embellished exposition reminded me of a stage play. The meta being that it might as well have been that for him. He had the script, after all.

Lotus · Jul 15, 2021

Eamon696 said:
This is largely how I feel aswell.

Also maybe it is just me, but I am pretty tired of Marvel pulling the rug out from under us for their villain reveals. At a certain point, it is no longer novel or surprising for the villain to not be who they have been alluding to (or to be some goofy, or awkward dude). It is just annoying.

I hope the actual Kang will be an intimidating force that commands the screen whenever he is on it.

But... they revealed exactly who they were alluding to though?

Runner · Jul 15, 2021

There has always been a multiverse. Remember, MCU exists as part of the standard multiverse numbering scheme. (it's 19999)
HOWEVER
until now there has not been a way to get out of the current 'river' because it's been isolated by he who remains.
The current river has been a bunch of 'possible' timelines that sort of tie in together: similar to Hypertime in DC, it's one main stream made up of multiple little ones, which may or may not be 'canon' to each other but are all part of the same basic history. Previous marvel TV series are part of this. there's a path you can take to go from iron man to SHIELD to wandavision, but you can just go from iron man through the movies through to wandavision and it still works.

But by breaking the 'barriers' there's now separate rivers that can be connected to. 616 and it's branches. Ultimate. marvel zombies.

What will probably happen is MCU-versions of these multiverses (distinct but similar) will get visited, but I doubt we'll see any straight confirmation that the MCU (MCMU?) is now directly accessable as part of the larger marvel multiverse.

Aly · Jul 15, 2021

I've said this before but Sylvie was easily the low for me in the show. I just could not get invested in her, which is a shame because before I was super excited for "Lady Loki."

Pai Pai Master · Jul 15, 2021

Fushichou187 said:
Yeah that was my read as well. Confidence in his choices that is not only born out of his narcissism but also out of lived experience, knowing just how bad the other Kangs are by comparison.

I loved Majors here. His scene, body language, and embellished exposition reminded me of a stage play. The meta being that it might as well have been that for him. He had the script, after all.

yep he's like a nigh-omniscient playwright in control of the multiverse on the verge of total insanity living completely alone at the end of time, committing unspeakable atrocities for eons

he was both excited and terrified of the moment in which he'd "cross the threshold" after living countless lifetimes always knowing what to expect, the looks on his face the whole time everything was playing out really sold the nature of the character in the short time we got to know him

Dalek · Jul 15, 2021

The ‘Loki’ Season Finale Exit Survey

Talking about THAT reveal, any lingering questions, and what’s to come in the MCU

www.theringer.com

1. What is your tweet-length review of the Loki finale?
Charles Holmes:

Arjuna Ramgopal: Loki is the greatest Marvel series ever, and it may be the best entry in the entire MCU.

Zach Kram: It's amazing what can happen when a climax ventures beyond bland CGI explosions.

Miles Surrey: It's the MCU climax I've always unironically wanted: a stimulating conversation delivered by ridiculously talented actors.

Andrew Gruttadaro:

Imagine if the finale just had Loki and Sylvie fighting a villain with CGI explosions while something crashed to the ground. We would just hear complaints on this forum about "why didn't they try something different? It's always the same old thing?"

You can never please the usual suspects around here. So who cares?

Eamon · Jul 15, 2021

Lotus said:
But... they revealed exactly who they were alluding to though?

In this instance, I was speaking more the reveal of the force behind the TVA to be "some goofy, or awkward dude". I went in with, perhaps unfair, expectations that we would get a far more cold and intimidating antagonist. I want to be clear that I don't want to convey that this was bad or whatever - just that I found it annoying to my own preferences and hopes.

I do love the setting and decisions they made with the ending otherwise. Having a dialogue focused climax was just awesome

a916 · Jul 15, 2021

PlanetSmasher said:
I think the version of Strange 2: Electric Magealoo that Derrickson was working on was likely a VERY different film, both tonally AND narratively, than the one Raimi made. The script was likely completely redone, and during that reboot phase they probably repositioned it to now feed directly out of Wandavision and this.

There was probably a big "come to Jesus" moment when they realized 2 Strange 2 Magical would be getting delayed and they decided to make it the payoff for the multiverse stuff rather than the intro for it.

Fiege said Loki tied into it already, that was back in 2019, and that was still when they planned on dropping Strange before Loki. I guess we'll find out in 2022 how that's going to work.

TyrantII · Jul 15, 2021

jph139 said:
I think that's a fair interpretation, but Kang says: "Once I isolated our timeline, all I had to do was manage the flow of time and prevent any further branches." Doesn't that imply that he cut off this timeline (the main MCU universe) from all others, and then made sure that no others ever occur by trimming all branches?

Taking the Time Gem in 2012 creates a nexus event, which creates a branch. Why are we assuming that branch wasn't trimmed, like every other branch? Once the Time Gem is taken back to the "main universe," it's no longer a necessary part of the Avengers plan.

As long as that branch "string" fits neatly woven into the tightly wound sacred rope, it's fine. HHR isn't culling every natural deviation, rather "the red line" is simply deviations that lead to more Kangs / HHRs.

Hense we get Sylvie and Alligator Loki from their respective universes that fit within the sacred rope, but their strings are wildly different after the creation of reality.

There's some addition complications that HHR orchestrated a bunch of stuff to get our Loki's where they needed to play their parts, but best not to fret about it.

The Artisan · Jul 15, 2021

BossAttack said:
Your take echoes mine. You hit exactly what I said, "It's not introspective enough to really be a character study, it doesn't do nearly enough weird timeline stuff for me to be impressed by the time shenanigans."

Marvel Studios' Loki |OT| See You Soon (All of Season 1 is on Disney+) Entertainment - Comics - OT

I too was angry that the movie "Seven" just revealed its antagonist out of nowhere at the end.

www.resetera.com

Don't ever let it get to you if someone tells you to stop watching something just because you aren't enjoying it. That's your decision to make and you're entitled to spend your time watching or stop watching whatever you want. For what it's worth I kinda agree with you and Veelk - I was disappointed with both of the previous shows despite overall them being good experiences and I thought Loki would be the best. Turns out it is the opposite and not only is Loki the weakest but I wouldn't even call it a good show. It has its moments but as an overall package I didn't enjoy it all that much.

I guess I could understand the overall theme and where the show is making the narrative go in terms of the bigger MCU story, but as a self contained story it felt like a bunch of nothing a lot of the time. Not to mention the introduction of the TVA and how it added so much more dilution to the rules of time travel and multiverse that was already established in Endgame. I'm not going to get into it again now, but based on this thread and how there is always constant arguments over it even now is just proof in my opinion that this show harmed the storytelling more than added good to it

edit: with all of that being said though, I'm still happy to see how popular the show is among the general audience and I'm excited that interest in the MCU is still going on perpetually throughout this year

Veelk · Jul 15, 2021

BossAttack said:
Your take echoes mine. You hit exactly what I said, "It's not introspective enough to really be a character study, it doesn't do nearly enough weird timeline stuff for me to be impressed by the time shenanigans."

Marvel Studios' Loki |OT| See You Soon (All of Season 1 is on Disney+) Entertainment - Comics - OT

I too was angry that the movie "Seven" just revealed its antagonist out of nowhere at the end.

www.resetera.com

Yeah, you and I think came to the same conclusion, though through different means. You note that Thor 1 is best the best Thor movie, and I agree that it's criminally underrated, but Ragnarok is better for me. I would argue that it does the character stuff better, just in it's own way, but it's not the most important feature imo, but that it brings the spectacle of what Superhero Norse Mythology should be imo. I'm not gonna lie and say that it didn't go too hard in on the jokes, but I also can't deny that it's fucking hilarious, that the Hulk fight is amazing, that I love Thor's journey to find the power of lightning withhin himself, that Loki is tricky while still retaining some element of character development because he and thor are getting tired of him doing the same thing over and over and at this point Thor can out trick him. And even though I really like Mjolnir and was sad when it got destroyed, before that it gave us the single best action scene in the opening that Base Thor has ever had, like it was a send off to how cool Mjolnir was before it got destroyed. It's stylish and somehow blends the scifi and magical aesthetic of Thor's universe that neither 1 nor 2: the Dark world really captured (Thor 1 emphasized it's magical aspects, Thor 2 it's scifi). It brings Hela who looks and fights amazingly, it brings Fenrir and has him fight with the Hulk, it brings Surtr to reign destruction on Asgard.

We can probably have a decent debate (if I were to rewatch thor 1 and ragnarok, which I haven't done in a long, long time) where we can bicker which is a better character study, but I can concede that even if Ragnarok is worse at that, it does what I am here for - give me a wonderfully audio-visual sensory experience. I feel no shame in being taken in by the magic and charm of things looking pretty, being funny, sincere, and epic.

But Loki, it's just got so little of that. THe most I was engaged with in the series was back in Episode 5 where Loki was hanging out with other Loki's because that's what you'd think would be the focus of a time hopping Loki series, but it was one episode and even within that one episode, the only strong character moment was with Classic Loki. And even HE pratted on and on about how being a mischievious bastard was just not satisfying to him and it's like uuuuuuuugh why did you make Loki the main character if all you wanted is to criticize him for being a villain to the point where he is unrecognizable in the finale?

jph139 · Jul 15, 2021

TyrantII said:
I think it was poorly visualized, but the shot of them pulling out of the two universes in the title credits, and then even further pulling out of the sacred timeline to the void and citadel visually represents it.

Each of those universes is basically a different way to visualize one specific string along the woven rope of the sacred timeline.

So there's a finite multiverse under HHR as long as the other universes don't spawn a Kang worthy of imperiling the status quo. Any time random chance causes a variation, it needs to weave into the rope (not be different enough to challenge HHR) or it's pruned before it starts to branch into the natural web of multiverses.

That's not quite right, though. We have two big black orbs. The one on the left, that we zoom out of, is implied to be "our" universe." We don't zoom further out, we zoom INTO the right one, which is implied to be "the MCU."

You get further confirmation that these are meant to be universes when Kang is giving his spiel about running into alternate versions of himself. The little "stacked on top of each other" image matches that.

Once you're inside the MCU, there's this big floating rock in the middle, surrounded by "the timeline."

Once Kang gets killed, you zoom out and see that that big shimmery line is branching, just like the indication on the TVA screens.

So are they intending that the big orbs aren't universes but multiverses? And that each one has its own bundle of universes inside? So then were the Kangs from within that timeline - in that little swirly stream - or were they from separate "orbs?" Or are there smaller "orbs" nestled inside the timeline? I think they'd have to be from other "orbs" (thus, other multiverses, if the timestream if made up of universes), because Kang said he "isolated" the timeline. But if he's just watching this timeline, how does he have any control over other "orbs?"

I agree it's not well visualized. I'm sure they had some internal plan to make sense of it, but it doesn't come through - would love to have an interview where they explain it.

Heynongman! · Jul 15, 2021

Colin Robinson said:
The ‘Loki’ Season Finale Exit Survey

Talking about THAT reveal, any lingering questions, and what’s to come in the MCU

www.theringer.com

Imagine if the finale just had Loki and Sylvie fighting a villain with CGI explosions while something crashed to the ground. We would just hear complaints on this forum about "why didn't they try something different? It's always the same old thing?"

You can never please the usual suspects around here. So who cares?

We would also still be hearing "These TV shows have no consequences in the broader MCU" or "These shows are just filler". Majors showing up here shows they absolutely are willing to make big universe shifting events happen on the TV shows.

VorpalNonsense · Jul 15, 2021

J-Skee said:
Question about Majors' performance: I see a lot of people saying they're okay with it because he's clearly portraying a version of Kang that doesn't exist yet. Would you be okay with it if the Conqueror acted like this?

I was fine with this personality for Immortus Who Remains. But would I want Kang to be exactly the same? No.
However I wouldn't mind that aloof demeanor funneled through more sinister tones. That could be scary fun.

Anoregon · Jul 15, 2021

Fercho said:
Question, when Mobius is talking about vampires, he is talking about...Morbius?

not quite

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