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Marvel Studios' Loki |OT| See You Soon (All of Season 1 is on Disney+)
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
- Entertainment Comics OT
There is supporting evidence:
Sylvie's bombings were initially a distraction for her to get access to the Time-Keepers (only for her to realize that they were fake). However, the "distraction" comes into play again as the TVA was unable to contain them all which is what we see unravel in the final episode (the branching of the Sacred Timeline).
Kang explicitly mentions that whoever takes his spot needs to take control of the TVA and tell them what they need to do in order to keep the Sacred Timeline in order. He also explicitly mentions the moment that passes for them to make a decision (it's the point of no return for all the nexus events caused by Sylvie's timeline bombing). Once that moment passed, Kang no longer has any view of the timeline.
This is why the TVA is instructed to capture Variants and "reset" timelines before a Nexus event can occur, because once it occurs, Kang can no longer see past it, therefore he no longer has control.
Yes, this is correct:
Kang can see his entire timeline, but cannot see other timelines (same goes for every other version of Kang), therefore by singling out one specific timeline, this particular version of Kang managed to delete all others by transporting them to the end of time and feeding them to Alioth, therefore he remains the solo version of himself, preventing other timelines from ever allowing their version of Kang to ever escape.
I dunno. If Kang is going to show up, as an example, ten times in the next eleven years, do you really want or need Jonathan Majors in every appearance? That sounds exhausting. Letting other people play alternative versions of Nathaniel Richards, some that don't even call themselves Kang or whatever, would be far more effective and as...
...this post points out, maybe the fun of the next decade or so for the MCU is not knowing who is Kang and not knowing if every Kang is a bad guy or a good guy or a bad guy pretending to be a good guy or a bad guy allying with the good guys for his own benefit.
Kang has a real opportunity to distinguish himself from Thanos simply by, well, not being a giant purple dude on a single-minded quest to balance the universe in some arbitrary way.
There's even the very real discussion about whether or not it is moral to kill a Kang because, surely, universes are doomed to be destroyed by other Kangs if they don't have a Kang of their own to defend them. So you kill a Kang to prevent him from destroying your universe, but then what prevents his universe from being destroyed now he's gone?
This shit sounds like something you need a Council of Reeds to deal with because the only way you're gonna stop the multitude of Kangs from destroying all but their own universes within the multiverse is to establish an organisation to keep the Kangs in check. All of them.
My only problem with the exposition dump is that it's a little bit redundant - a lot of what he was saying it just the same stuff the TVA had already established, just reoriented a little bit and confirmed explicitly. "So remember that whole spiel about a war between universes? Yeah, that was true! But really it was more a war between Kangs than between multiverses." If they had kept the explicit goals of the TVA more mysterious - why exactly they were trimming branches, what the origin of the "sacred timeline" was, who the Time Keepers are - it might have landed better.
Or alternatively, it would have been way too much info and people would have gotten even more confused than they already are, so... who knows, maybe they struck the right balance here. Tough to talk counterfactuals.
I did find the camera kind of laconic, though. I think there were at least 2 or 3 slow, almost static zooms on Kang from behind Loki and Sylvie? I would have at least had the guy walk around a bit, maybe play the history of the Kang Wars on a bigger canvas than his little desk widget. (Think Ego explaining his backstory in GOTG2.)
Or alternatively, it would have been way too much info and people would have gotten even more confused than they already are, so... who knows, maybe they struck the right balance here. Tough to talk counterfactuals.
I did find the camera kind of laconic, though. I think there were at least 2 or 3 slow, almost static zooms on Kang from behind Loki and Sylvie? I would have at least had the guy walk around a bit, maybe play the history of the Kang Wars on a bigger canvas than his little desk widget. (Think Ego explaining his backstory in GOTG2.)
I think the answer for why Mobius doesn't remember Loki is really obvious. He doesn't remember the cup circles on Renslayer's table either because it's implied the TVA agents are subjected to regular brainwashing or memory wipes or something similar. It even focuses on those again at the end. The Kang in charge now did a memory wipe/alteration and this Mobius is our Mobius, and there is only one TVA and Conqueror Kang is now running the show.
Not all universes have kangs tho. It all started in the 31st century, so the main MCU universe would not have a kang yet.
At least Sylvie's decision was based on not trusting the villain of the show, and also the issue of whether or not arbitrarily kidnapping people is ok if it means preventing a potential future conflict. Starlord just straight up lost half of life in the universe because he couldn't hold it together for one minute.
Huh? You can literally say this about any franchise film property ever. "Voldemort? Who the hell is that?" "Thanos who is that?" "The Night King who is that?" And then what happens? You have entries that follow that answer that question.... you act like the MCU is ending today lol
He says it himself, doesn't he? He's tired of being the custodian of the timeline. Presumably that means he just stopped maintaining it past the point at which he meets Loki and Sylvie.
Not gonna lie I was glad Sylvie went through with the kill. Loki variant has to be the one to take down Kang eventually right which is why he was trying so hard to stop him. I just find it interesting that they could potentially be building this phase around the Loki character.
Also is Miss Minutes an actual being or a simple Ai?
Also is Miss Minutes an actual being or a simple Ai?
A Nexus event (as explained in the first episode) causes a branch in the timeline, which then causes other branches of its own.
Kang can see his own timeline, but cannot see into others (as explained by Kang himself). He could communicate with the other timelines, but he can't see how they'd unfold. After the Multiverse War, this specific Kang found a way to single out a timeline and delete all the others. He labeled his own timeline as the Sacred Timeline and created the TVA to prevent Nexus events from happening (as explained in episode 1).
So he doesn't know what's going to happen because all the branches that Sylvie created with her bomb in episode 2 all hit their Nexus event points (the TVA was incapable of containing them all). Once that moment hit, Kang has no idea what's going to happen as other timelines or other Kangs could have interfered at any moment. He knew Sylvie and Loki were going to make it to his Citadel, however he didn't know which one was going to take his spot as the decision wasn't written.
I think that it wasn't a clever choice to use similar imagery for the depiction of different universes at the start of the episode and then when He Who Remains talks about them:
Lots of people understand that he destroyed all other universes and isolated his own, creating the sacred timeline, but the scene at the start of the episode implies that there is another universe, ours.
As much as I like this opening scene, I wish they wouldn't have shown the universe on the left. It adds confusion.
Lots of people understand that he destroyed all other universes and isolated his own, creating the sacred timeline, but the scene at the start of the episode implies that there is another universe, ours.
As much as I like this opening scene, I wish they wouldn't have shown the universe on the left. It adds confusion.
This is basically it, but i think whatever devices he used to predict events relied on the sacred timeline being intact, and that had branched out of control once the TVA ceased to function.
I thought they were just black holes with accretion disks.
I took it to be because it was the first moment in eons that he wasn't (personally or via the TVA) explicitly dictating/controlling. He was allowing the Lokis to choose instead of ensuring only one path would happen.
that's one way to bring back alligator Loki tooSeason 2...
Literally every character in the MCU was "that guy from the comics" at some point.
I just realized that Marvel once again beat the DCU to the punch just as they were talking about opening their multiverse as well lol
Definitely. Had the Doctor Strange movie been called "Doctor Strange: Lost In Madness" we'd be a lot more shocked and surprised by events that were coming up, and I strongly suspect that the writers of Wandavision and Loki weren't operating on the idea that the fans would have already known about the title of the Doctor Strange sequel. I get that it's a powerful title, but they probably should have waited on revealing the whole thing.
Just like WandaVision and Falcon & Winter Soldier, I absolutely loved Loki, what another great MCU show.
Looking forward to seeing what happens next, as that will have a massive impact on the MCU going forward, exciting stuff.
Looking forward to seeing what happens next, as that will have a massive impact on the MCU going forward, exciting stuff.
Just a little confusion: was Kang trying to destroy other timelines or just keeping his timeline (the sacred timeline) from branching out enough to 'touch' other multiverse timelines and create the conflict he experienced?
As someone who's never read comics, this was ok I guess? Not super excited about what it'll lead to, but I guess I'll have to let it play out.
In terms of Phase 4 so far I much prefer Falcon & Winter Solider and Black Widow.
In terms of Phase 4 so far I much prefer Falcon & Winter Solider and Black Widow.
Both. He was destroying other timelines to protect himself and his timeline.
He was literally murdering himself over and over for all time.
I'm not entirely sold on the idea that their minds were wiped. We see a scene of our og Mobius talking to B-15 and reacting to the branching, and then we see Loki walking to the "new" Mobius while they were reacting differently to the branching.
Showing these scenes so close together would be a little bit weird if their minds were wiped just 10 seconds later.
It's not hard to understand. I was defending a poster that said "the reveal was underwhelming because I don't read the comics".
Every single poster I see excited for this character name calls the guy by Kang when he didn't even say that name in the show. It's obvious most of the excitement for what comes next comes from the knowledge of what this character is capable of doing in the comics. Hell, I have no clue and I'm pretty lukewarm on this character reveal, but I'm interested to know more (even if this 1st appearance didn't at all captivate me).
Just like I'm sure many people went "Uh?" at Thanos post-credit scene when it came out. But that was a big purple alien and was not the reveal to a season-long mistery.
I love that Disney/Marvel are willing to throw in big guns into shows. That felt like an event.
Loki is probably my favourite of the shows. I think it stuck the landing better than the other shows.
I'm just really exicted to see where the MCU goes.
NO DOWNTIME, LET'S FUCKING GO
Loki is probably my favourite of the shows. I think it stuck the landing better than the other shows.
I'm just really exicted to see where the MCU goes.
NO DOWNTIME, LET'S FUCKING GO
If I had no knowledge of Kang whatsoever(what I know is limited), I would still be interested. The story he weaved and the "see you soon" followed by his face on the statue…That's good cliffhanger.
Look I get that entertainment properties are subjective and that's going to play a part in anyone's perception. They're free to like / dislike anything.
But even the content the show itself puts forward - with no comic context - is absolutely massive. They presented (what I thought to be a well acted and interesting portrayal) of a character who has essentially running time and space the entire time, and he is now out of the picture meaning that the multiverse is totally free. There's multiversal wars, cross-overs, someone trying to conquer the multiverse etc etc.
If people don't like it then that's entirely their opinions which is totally fair, but to have indifference and think he's a minor character is them not paying attention to the content in front of them.
I have never read a single comic with Kang in it and I thought it was cool. I don't think the "who" was the important part of the TVA mystery, the "why" was. And we got the "why" and the stakes and now we get to see the consequences play out in the next season.
God yes. The second slow zoom I was already tapping my fingers impatiently on the table. It felt like they were under time and playing for extra minutes.
Yeah, as someone who saw the report that there'd be a season 2 but didn't fully trust it, that mid-credits confirmation was a bit of a fist-pump moment. Not sure they can play that card twice, though.
he actually thinks he could be a doctor doom relative in the comics.
I think that it wasn't a clever choice to use similar imagery for the depiction of different universes at the start of the episode and then when He Who Remains talks about them:
Lots of people understand that he destroyed all other universes and isolated his own, creating the sacred timeline, but the scene at the start of the episode implies that there is another universe, ours.
As much as I like this opening scene, I wish they wouldn't have shown the universe on the left. It adds confusion.
I didn't get the idea that he was destroying universes. Just pruning them if they didn't follow the way he wanted. The other universes existed, they just were pretty much on the exact same path, so practically identical but still separate. Soon as he's not there to prune, they start to deviate like they're suppose to.
Of course. Indeed the only way I can even reconcile that there are thousands of Lokis running around even though Immortus / He Who Remains said he used Alioth to destroy every universe but his own is that he only destroyed universes that either had a Kang already or would inevitably give rise to one and the universes left over were carefully managed by Immortus / He Who Remains so that none of them would have a Kang of their own.
Now that I've had more time to think about it, yeah...I didn't really like this episode very much. It's probably the one episode of the show so far I didn't really enjoy. Kang is a villain I really don't like at all, because his whole "there's an infinite number of me, so your victory is meaningless" shtick just makes him pointless, and spending most of the episode just yammering about him felt like the actual show story suddenly putting itself on hold to be like "HERE'S THE NEW DIRECTION OF THE MCU".
I dunno. Maybe I'm a weirdo because I care more about character stories than I do about setup for a bunch of future movies, but I don't know. I'm just not feeling it. I hope season 2 isn't just about Kang too, because we know he can't be beaten in the show, so why even bother?
I dunno. Maybe I'm a weirdo because I care more about character stories than I do about setup for a bunch of future movies, but I don't know. I'm just not feeling it. I hope season 2 isn't just about Kang too, because we know he can't be beaten in the show, so why even bother?
