This is making me suspect that it doesn't really matter who it ends up being, to the point where it very well could be nobody at all behind the curtain and the TVA is just a self sustaining bureaucracy
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Marvel Studios' Loki |OT| See You Soon (All of Season 1 is on Disney+)
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
- Entertainment Comics OT
This is making me suspect that it doesn't really matter who it ends up being, to the point where it very well could be nobody at all behind the curtain and the TVA is just a self sustaining bureaucracy
A Loki may have conjured up that over the top dark castle to draw in the most competent variants, very theatrical. They expected some would make it through, and plans to turn them into slaves using the most powerful enchantments, and they can help operate the TVA's technology behind the scenes. This is just meandering speculation but there are ways to potray theatricality with this set up. You can imagine them just waiting and gleefully mocking the protagonists.
Divorced of who it is, I think whatever season 2 shapes up to be is gonna be a lot different than people are expecting it to be. I just can't see this ending up Loki Vs Kang or Prime Ravonna for another 6 episodes.
I'm expecting a mostly clear conclusion with a new status quo and maybe even concept.
I'm expecting a mostly clear conclusion with a new status quo and maybe even concept.
Not trying to be rude, but how would any of that be relevant to the protagonists' journeys?
In order to do that he is directly fucking over Loki every time hence why there's so many variants. Immortus needs Loki to die in the way he does to create a cascade of events that lead to his birth or something.
I honestly think it could be more interesting if it's not relevant to the protagonists journey to really complete the Wizard of Oz circle they've built up through the series. The characters coming in to an anti-climactic leader that really doesn't give a shit about Lokis would be perfect. Give the leader a "for me it was tuesday" speech about why Sylvie was taken as a kid.
One thing I've kinda seen, but not a ton of is it could be a Thor. And a Thor that really doesn't want to be over shadowed by a good Loki - so like, Sylvie's Thor would be really cool.
But also I think these narrow theories that involve "keeping loki down" are kinda weird because the TVA is just so broad in its jurisdiction that it really doesn't play well with those theories.
This also plays along with what Classic Loki was saying about Loki's self importance and glorious purpose is all completely pointless. There is no glorious purpose, yes he's the god of mischief but in the cosmic scale he isn't important and it being Kang who has been fucking over Loki's for no discernable reasons would be the perfect wake up call to our Loki who's character is currently changing.
exactly, it plays into what we know about Loki's ego. He's nothing in this universe.
It's a play of someone trying to escape their destiny versus someone trying reinforce their own by any means necessarily. It's a good contrast
Well if Tony was meant to obtain the tesseract in 2012, then maybe this time he decides not to grab a quick slice and goes out of the front door or something so he doesn't get knocked away by the Hulk. I don't know what's supposed to change to not trigger him to go into to the stairs' hallway, but this way the events of Endgame also remains unchanged since their mission is just to get the stones and return. He would miss getting to talk to his dad and getting the closure he deserves and maybe that would have an effect on the battlefield? Strange did say only one outcome gets them to victory against Thanos, and if that means each of Strange's 14 million visions also included the time travel journeys that the Avengers made, then this hypothetical resetting of events by the TVA would lead to doom anyway.
If budget is the reason why we aren't seeing more of our questions answered then I feel like the budgets should just be bigger for these shows. WV, Falcon, and even Loki all broke some sort of Disney+ record I'm pretty sure, and Falcon went as far as topping Mandalorian which was Disney+'s previous biggest hit. The MCU alone has become the biggest Hollywood franchise of all time. I think the sad and boring reality is that because I find the show to be so flawed and problematic that I'm just not a big fan of it unfortunately. I was excited for it just like I was for the previous shows, but Loki might be by far the worst so far and I might even say one of the worst MCU properties as well. It still isn't over yet, so I'll reserve full judgement till the end.
Yeah, that twist ruined the show for me. The worst part of an otherwise great series
It would be extremely fucking hard to capture that in one episode.
This is an MCU that like, sheared off Thanos courting death and being an Eternal. People expecting Immortus and Iron Lad are gonna be disappointed.
Except we have a season 2 and multiple movies to build it across. Great thing about this being a tv show
That's ok, if it doesn't work for you then it doesn't work for you, I'm sure we all have examples of media that others love but left us cold. For me it worked pretty much on every level, I would easily place it among the top ten of MCU projects. Differences in opinion is why talking about media is so interesting.
It's the latter for sure. Hence the big ship showing up. I think the idea according to Old Loki is that "Loki's know how to survive"
I have a feeling the ending is actually going to reveal the architect is a Prime Hiddleston Loki, and the one we have been seeing all these years is actually a "lesser" version of himself, but the lesser one will best the prime in the end, but shouldn't of been allowed too, and will create cascading paradoxes.
I also thought it was really cool that classic loki mentioned he isn't good with weapons but focuses on magic; and was powerful enough with it to create an illusionary Asgard - which is also kind of sad that he has all this power, but he really just misses home.
I also thought it was really cool that classic loki mentioned he isn't good with weapons but focuses on magic; and was powerful enough with it to create an illusionary Asgard - which is also kind of sad that he has all this power, but he really just misses home.
This right here is why the "It's old loki" theories fall flat for me. Old Loki's arc was perfect.
Ok, because I've been under the assumption that the villain's plot doesn't actually have anything to do with Loki specifically, like there's a grander plan that Loki is going to throw a wrench at.
Yeah, I'm leaning towards it being a Hiddleston Loki since it would be a reveal that works with all the characters they've established. I don't see them revealing the big bad and it being a character we have no connection to. You could have one of these:
So I'm leading towards no one leading the TVA- it's just a bureaucracy running on autopilot. But Loki and/or Silvie have an opportunity to take over once the reach the end of time.
it would be interesting to see how this plays out. Has Loki truly changed or was he feigning growth so that he could achieve his ultimate goal to take over the TVA- another trick from the god of mischief.
or maybe Silvie moves to take over the TVA. Lokies typically stab everyone they love in the back. Silvie has never had an opportunity to do that. But now that she has bonded with Loki, here's her chance to do the thing that "makes a Loki a Loki.
a happy ending (for me) would be that neither of these things happen, the TVA is destroyed, Loki and Enchantress live to go on more escapades together and the after credits show the Kang Empire moving in to fill in the power vaccum left by the TVA (who they'd been having territorial disputes with)
I'm less partial to the idea that a Loki variant is running the show, but it's possible. If they go this route, I wonder if it'll be another 2012 variant waiting for a 2012 variant to come take the throne- like he's predestined to do. If this is the case. I hope our current Lokies decide to break tradition and destroy the hierarchy. The sudden explosion of free will and chaos in the multiverse would set us on the path to Kang.
I really like your illustrations and theory. Iirc, in the comic There were multiple competing time authorities, including TVA and Kang Empire. Perhaps they were managing different "cables" before the worlds collide event. This Loki story could be a good lead off for Marvel to introduce newly acquired properties and have a narrative explanation for why they didn't coexist before.
it would be interesting to see how this plays out. Has Loki truly changed or was he feigning growth so that he could achieve his ultimate goal to take over the TVA- another trick from the god of mischief.
or maybe Silvie moves to take over the TVA. Lokies typically stab everyone they love in the back. Silvie has never had an opportunity to do that. But now that she has bonded with Loki, here's her chance to do the thing that "makes a Loki a Loki.
a happy ending (for me) would be that neither of these things happen, the TVA is destroyed, Loki and Enchantress live to go on more escapades together and the after credits show the Kang Empire moving in to fill in the power vaccum left by the TVA (who they'd been having territorial disputes with)
I'm less partial to the idea that a Loki variant is running the show, but it's possible. If they go this route, I wonder if it'll be another 2012 variant waiting for a 2012 variant to come take the throne- like he's predestined to do. If this is the case. I hope our current Lokies decide to break tradition and destroy the hierarchy. The sudden explosion of free will and chaos in the multiverse would set us on the path to Kang.
I really like your illustrations and theory. Iirc, in the comic There were multiple competing time authorities, including TVA and Kang Empire. Perhaps they were managing different "cables" before the worlds collide event. This Loki story could be a good lead off for Marvel to introduce newly acquired properties and have a narrative explanation for why they didn't coexist before.
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I still can't believe they managed to make Classic Loki's arc hit so hard in only one episode. Just really wonderful character work.
This show has definitely become one of my top MCU projects they've made and I'm happy to see its increased viewership numbers on Disney+ compared to WV and F&WS that came before, so I guess lots of other people must be jiving with it too!
Does anyone else think Sylvie was a bit suspicious? Her expressions or the way she talked with Loki just made me think she might try to do something drastic/unexpected idk
This show has definitely become one of my top MCU projects they've made and I'm happy to see its increased viewership numbers on Disney+ compared to WV and F&WS that came before, so I guess lots of other people must be jiving with it too!
Does anyone else think Sylvie was a bit suspicious? Her expressions or the way she talked with Loki just made me think she might try to do something drastic/unexpected idk
We've all been operating under the assumption that Sylvie was taken because she wants to be good, but what if she's actually super evil and that's a problem for the TVA?
I'd hate it, but I could see them doing it.
I will keep repeating this because it's true. Anybody thinking otherwise wasn't watching closely enough. If it turns out to be a Ralph Bohner twist it'll kill the series for me.
This show also has dealed with an overarching theme like wandavision(grievance) and fatws(self acceptance) before that is isolation. Something to keep in mind when speculating.
A Loki, living in a castle at the end of time in control of the TVA hasn't succeeded if he is still alone, disconnected from everyone else, while our Loki who has succeeded with both Mobius and Silvie becoming friends, would fit the theme.
Our Loki opting out of becoming all powerful somehow and choosing to be with Silvie would fit that theme also.
A Loki, living in a castle at the end of time in control of the TVA hasn't succeeded if he is still alone, disconnected from everyone else, while our Loki who has succeeded with both Mobius and Silvie becoming friends, would fit the theme.
Our Loki opting out of becoming all powerful somehow and choosing to be with Silvie would fit that theme also.
I appreciate the effort of dipicting a contrast to the characters. But I guess for pacings' sake you would thread some of Kang's alter egos or personas, Nathaniel, Immortus, throughtout the protagonists' journey, before dramatically converging them and doing a character reveal. That might make me appreciate the mystery pay off more if the character appears in the finale.
No matter who the mastermind is, they're going to be a new character, even if they're a variant of an existing character.
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I wonder what happened to Hunter C-20.
Is she being kept captive like Hunter B-15 is, or was she pruned?
I've also realized that while the TVA saying people pruned are "dead" isn't *technically* true, it basically is. Alioth is so dangerous that it's nearly a forgone conclusion.
Which actually makes the TVA even more cruel than first presented--being pruned or reset looks like a swift "death".... but they are then dropped in some sort of horrible apocalyptic nightmare world where they are food for a gigantic cloud monster.
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I wonder what happened to Hunter C-20.
Is she being kept captive like Hunter B-15 is, or was she pruned?
I've also realized that while the TVA saying people pruned are "dead" isn't *technically* true, it basically is. Alioth is so dangerous that it's nearly a forgone conclusion.
Which actually makes the TVA even more cruel than first presented--being pruned or reset looks like a swift "death".... but they are then dropped in some sort of horrible apocalyptic nightmare world where they are food for a gigantic cloud monster.
I had written a post that went into how they cant actually delete people but I never thought about them just killing people lol
I guess "pruning" them got the job done the same and left no trace or mess to deal with.
Maybe whomever created the TVA has reason to keep that cloud monster fed and content
Unless it's just Tom Hiddleston as a Loki variant that created the TVA :/
I'm not sure they can. Nexus events give off vast amounts of energy, right? Enough to be spotted across all of space and time. So what if that energy is being harnessed and so the TVA isn't allowed to kill Variants at all, only send them to the end of time where their "nexus energy" can be absorbed and then used? 🤔
That's still technically a new character. No matter who the mastermind is they're going to be someone we have no backstory of yet.
I'm still expecting them to play on the multiple Mobius thing from the comics in the final episode, heck my mom(a non comic person) caught onto it last week when Ravonna pointed out she has multiple analysts but Mobius put the water rings there
I wonder if Mr. Ditkovich also got pruned? Did he commit a time crime by fixing the door? These kind of questions are what keeps me up at night
I'd be fine with that. Stark did use the Möbius strip to figure out time travel, after all, so it'd be kinda cool if there was some connection there. Like maybe Mobius was the first time traveler and he used a jetski to do it. When he realised how dangerous unrestricted time travel was, maybe he established the TVA to keep an eye on things and he entrusted the day-to-day running of it to his many Variants from across the multiverse because you can only trust yourself.
Leading the TVA and creating it, could be two different beings for that.
I think that Miss Minutes ultimately leads the TVA. Being an AI she should be capable of controlling the time keeper puppets.
Looks like there's a shot of an all gold Loki in a trailer that we haven't seen yet
It's looking like the mastermind is a Hiddleston Loki. It would make sense as others stated with the theme of changing your destiny while fighting the one who wants to to remain set
It's looking like the mastermind is a Hiddleston Loki. It would make sense as others stated with the theme of changing your destiny while fighting the one who wants to to remain set