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Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,061
Melbourne, Australia
I know I shouldn't get bogged down by stupid nerd power level stuff, but it keeps bothering me how Loki, an Asgardian who has fought Thor hand-to-hand and has cleanly overpowered Captain America, keeps struggling when fighting regular human dudes.
It bugs me a little bit too, but in saying that I don't think he has fought any truly 'regular' human dudes?

The TVA might be variants from Earth, but it would make sense for them to have enhanced strength for the job. The people in the RoxxMart were being possessed by Sylvie which you can also rationalize as magically making them more powerful. Plus Loki very visibly uninterested in those fights anyway, and just wanted to speak to Sylvie. And in this episode, while the population of Lamentis appear human...they aren't. They could very easily be much more physically powerful than actual humans.
 

denx

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,321
Folks think Kang may be pulling the strings but what if
Richard E Grant (as an older Loki) is actually the man behind the curtain for the Time Keepers?
Also I'm on the train that the entire ending sequence is an elaborate illusion by Loki to extract information from Sylvie.
 

ThatMeanScene

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,852
Miami, FL
What a great episode. I couldn't believe they ended it on a cliffhanger.

I don't know how you don't walk away from this episode having enjoyed it. I think the folks complaining either want exposition thrown at them all episode or non-stop action in the entire episode while they turn their brains off.
 

falcondoc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,219
Definitely TV effects in this episode. So far the promise of movie level effects for D+ have not come true.

But fun episode and I really liked the end sequence.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,205
Tampa, Fl
So I'm probably wrong but my current theory is that Slyvie is Loki as a child being told they were adopted.

She says she has been running from the TVA all her life, can not remember Freya except in little bits and seems to know no magic except enchantment.
 

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,385
Germany
The planet reminded me of the Outer Worlds design.

Finally cought up to this episode - did I mishear or did they name-drop Krakoa during the "name and Apokalypse" but in episode 2?

The show looks amazing, I like the portrayal of Loki, his blips with Mobius are fantastic. They are so good, that I don't really like a lot of the other dialogue tbh.
The "who are you" and "what are you up to" bits feel very stretched out and the way they tend to not say anything that would bring insight to the characters or further the plot but simply lead to the next little action thing isn't it for me.
It's not like this all the time but when they come to a halt, it's very noticeable.

Also - the getting drunk and breaking the thingy bit felt so much like a setup to find out what's really happening that the actual resolution felt a little forced.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,954
It bugs me a little bit too, but in saying that I don't think he has fought any truly 'regular' human dudes?

The TVA might be variants from Earth, but it would make sense for them to have enhanced strength for the job. The people in the RoxxMart were being possessed by Sylvie which you can also rationalize as magically making them more powerful. Plus Loki very visibly uninterested in those fights anyway, and just wanted to speak to Sylvie. And in this episode, while the population of Lamentis appear human...they aren't. They could very easily be much more physically powerful than actual humans.
All of this could be true, but it isn't satisfying to me. Would have been good for Loki to havr said "ok, enough" when fighting the controlled humans at least and thrown one across the room just to show his power.

Loki's power level stood out as something they could have done better/neater.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,610
The thing I was actually bothered by in this episode was the meteorites coming down at different angles (they should all largely have the same trajectory, or at least similar).
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
So I'm probably wrong but my current theory is that Slyvie is Loki as a child being told they were adopted.

She says she has been running from the TVA all her life, can not remember Freya except in little bits and seems to know no magic except enchantment.

I don't think Sylvie knows she was adopted. Odin and Frigga never told Loki and he understandably freaked when he found out himself entirely by accident over at least a thousand years later. It probably doesn't matter to Sylvie now, anyway, since I assume she can never go back to the universe she originated from.

Unless Variants don't work the way we think they do, the timeline she came from would have been reset in Sylvie's universe and the "real" her would continue living according to the will of the Sacred Timeline completely unaware the TVA or the Time Keepers even exist. She'd already be dead, I assume, from having tried and failed to kill Thanos since that is the role Loki must apparently play in every universe.

Which means that, like Loki, Sylvie is stranded in a multiverse with no home to go to. In fact I'd imagine every Variant is in the same boat and that actually giving them a home and a purpose at the TVA is going to be framed as one of the good things it does.
 

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,385
Germany
Krakatoa, the volcano in Indonesia

Ah, I misheard then.

Throwing his glass down and shouting "Another!" I thought was a reference to Thor in the diner in Thor 1.

Yes, I agree, that was most likely a reference. The way this played out was so uncharacteristic for an always scheming godlike being though - he got drunk, he managed to get Sophie out of her comfort zone while she was asleep, he didn't notice anything happening in his surroundings... It didn't feel anything like the Loki we've come to know over the last 10 years, this dude was completely incompetent, risking everything for a drink and a good time. It felt like he was setting her up to slip him information or getting her in a situation where she doesn't see him coming - the twist actually being: nope, he's just drunk.
It might work, if we'd seen him doing something successful before, or if he had let down his old self completely because it doesn't work in these circumstances and his arc this season was getting back on top and to his old self. That doesn't seem to be the case though. We've seen moments, but they didn't connect (yet) to something resembling an internal arc or drive - only external motivation.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,425
Loki using telekinesis on a falling apartment building with minimal effort set off my Spider-sense that what we're seeing may not be real. He's *never* shown that level of power.

My fiance and I were speculating that he may be doing Sylvie's enchantment trick, creating an elaborate illusion so she'll open up, share her plan, and eventually tell him how to fix the doohicky. Loki read the files on the various doomsdays, he probably knows them inside and out.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,224
Washington DC
I never had any interest in this, but the other day I had some insomnia and left our bedroom and went down to my mancave. I couldn't figure out what to watch and so I thought I'd give this show a try , and man am I glad that I did! I went into this show completely blind so I had no idea what the plotline was going to be, and it's very intriguing. I'll also note that the setup in my mancave is a 77' CX and 7.2 sound system, and the third episode in Dobly vision was a damn audio/visual tour de force! Watching Loki do the fireworks in his hands, and the neon city towards the end, gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous. The sounds of everything going to hell at the end.........production values are off the charts. This show has no reason to be this good. I've been trying to convince my wife to watch it; can't wait for the next episode. I don't even care about the marvel universe, but this is currently my favorite show at the moment.

Also, as a tech snob that still buys physical movies, I must say that Disney's streaming is incredibly impressive.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Loki using telekinesis on a falling apartment building with minimal effort set off my Spider-sense that what we're seeing may not be real. He's *never* shown that level of power.

My fiance and I were speculating that he may be doing Sylvie's enchantment trick, creating an elaborate illusion so she'll open up, share her plan, and eventually tell him how to fix the doohicky. Loki read the files on the various doomsdays, he probably knows them inside and out.

Loki may have never shown that level of power before but that's not really an issue. Compare Doctor Strange from his own movie to Thor Ragnarok and then to Infinity War, for example, or Wanda from Infinity War to Endgame and then to WandaVision. Magic in the MCU has been upgraded considerably in recent years so it makes sense that Loki would see himself upgraded as well. It would be weird, after all, if Loki's magic wasn't as strong as Strange's or Wanda's given that he's an Asgardian god and was taught by Frigga herself.

I don't doubt that Loki will learn how to enchant people the way Sylvie does, but if she can't do it to him then there's a good chance he can't do it to her either. He's more likely to use it against someone else, maybe even everyone at the TVA so that they all remember their past lives and turn on the Time Keepers.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
14,995
Loki using telekinesis on a falling apartment building with minimal effort set off my Spider-sense that what we're seeing may not be real. He's *never* shown that level of power.

My fiance and I were speculating that he may be doing Sylvie's enchantment trick, creating an elaborate illusion so she'll open up, share her plan, and eventually tell him how to fix the doohicky. Loki read the files on the various doomsdays, he probably knows them inside and out.

To be honest the movies and shows are all over the place with Loki's powers. Hes super human... suddenly struggling with normal humans. He can make stuff appear or teleport... sometimes? Telekinesis sometimes? It's all so random
 

HustleBun

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,076
third episode in Dobly vision was a damn audio/visual tour de force! Watching Loki do the fireworks in his hands, and the neon city towards the end, gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous. The sounds of everything going to hell at the end.........production values are off the charts. This show has no reason to be this good.
Agreed, massive visual step-up from what I'm used to. I was locked in during that entire sequence. I love the look of that city and the visual of the planet collapsing was awesome.
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,935
This episode had some good parts and some bad parts. As usual the fighting parts were the worst parts. It's amazing that fighting scenes haven't evolved much from Xena Warrior Princess and that really brings down the quality of The Mandalorian and Loki somewhat. The rest looks absolutely incredible though
 

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,555
I really wish tv would stop doing this "one shot" gimmick. It's only impressive as a feat and always looks terrible, fake and extremely rehearsed.

And yes, I hate it in Daredevil too.
 

Zastava

Member
Feb 19, 2018
2,108
London
I don't think Sylvie knows she was adopted. Odin and Frigga never told Loki and he understandably freaked when he found out himself entirely by accident over at least a thousand years later. It probably doesn't matter to Sylvie now, anyway, since I assume she can never go back to the universe she originated from.

She states in their conversation on the train that she knows she was adopted and implies she knew from an early age as she acts a bit surprised that Loki wasn't told.
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,024
I really wish tv would stop doing this "one shot" gimmick. It's only impressive as a feat and always looks terrible, fake and extremely rehearsed.

And yes, I hate it in Daredevil too.

Marvelous Mrs Maisel does it so well and natural that they just put the other shows to shame. No one else even comes close. They'll put these long shots in to random episodes instead of climaxes just for funsies.



 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,979
Ah, I misheard then.



Yes, I agree, that was most likely a reference. The way this played out was so uncharacteristic for an always scheming godlike being though - he got drunk, he managed to get Sophie out of her comfort zone while she was asleep, he didn't notice anything happening in his surroundings... It didn't feel anything like the Loki we've come to know over the last 10 years, this dude was completely incompetent, risking everything for a drink and a good time. It felt like he was setting her up to slip him information or getting her in a situation where she doesn't see him coming - the twist actually being: nope, he's just drunk.
It might work, if we'd seen him doing something successful before, or if he had let down his old self completely because it doesn't work in these circumstances and his arc this season was getting back on top and to his old self. That doesn't seem to be the case though. We've seen moments, but they didn't connect (yet) to something resembling an internal arc or drive - only external motivation.

Excuse me?

Loki's intelligence has always been written inconsistently. There's like zero reason for him to act so out of character from Odin in Ragnarok other than because its funny. Like the whole idea in Thor 1 was that Loki felt he was more mature, intelligent, and wise than Thor, who he saw as a reckless partier, and thus should've been the rightful ruler. He's even ribbed at by the Warrior's Three for being such a downer and should lighten up. Yet, when he's Odin he decides to become the very same reckless partier as Thor that any Asgardian should know is out of character for Odin.

tumblr_p2wfbbgub81qa1s2no1_r1_540.gifv


So yeah, Loki's intelligence changes with every scene.
 

kinoki

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,704
Excuse me?

Loki's intelligence has always been written inconsistently. There's like zero reason for him to act so out of character from Odin in Ragnarok other than because its funny. Like the whole idea in Thor 1 was that Loki felt he was more mature, intelligent, and wise than Thor, who he saw as a reckless partier, and thus should've been the rightful ruler. He's even ribbed at by the Warrior's Three for being such a downer and should lighten up. Yet, when he's Odin he decides to become the very same reckless partier as Thor that any Asgardian should know is out of character for Odin.

tumblr_p2wfbbgub81qa1s2no1_r1_540.gifv


So yeah, Loki's intelligence changes with every scene.
I've always read it as he's mischievous and he can make the best of an opportunity but once he has what he was scheming to get and there are no more angles to play; he's out of his element and a victim to his own vanity.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,650
Loki may have never shown that level of power before but that's not really an issue. Compare Doctor Strange from his own movie to Thor Ragnarok and then to Infinity War, for example, or Wanda from Infinity War to Endgame and then to WandaVision. Magic in the MCU has been upgraded considerably in recent years so it makes sense that Loki would see himself upgraded as well. It would be weird, after all, if Loki's magic wasn't as strong as Strange's or Wanda's given that he's an Asgardian god and was taught by Frigga herself.

I don't doubt that Loki will learn how to enchant people the way Sylvie does, but if she can't do it to him then there's a good chance he can't do it to her either. He's more likely to use it against someone else, maybe even everyone at the TVA so that they all remember their past lives and turn on the Time Keepers.

On that note it's honestly interesting how....provenly inferior Sylvie is to Loki. She clearly focused hard on enchantment because she's self-taught and doesn't know how to do much else, she's clearly far more aggressive and far more willing to throw down than Loki ever was (even having a sword at her hip at near-all times), and her whole plan really comes off more like a superpowered woman trying to take down the TVA than a Loki variant trying to take down the TVA. I'm both curious and hoping that that's addressed.

To be honest the movies and shows are all over the place with Loki's powers. Hes super human... suddenly struggling with normal humans. He can make stuff appear or teleport... sometimes? Telekinesis sometimes? It's all so random

People keep bringing this up and I can't recall it off the top of my head but when was Loki ever shown to be super-strong? People keep saying he's superhuman as if he's superhuman across the board which isn't necessarily true, y'know. He's long-lived and can demonstrably take a beating, but he's not a warrior. Just because he can take a super-punch doesn't mean he's good at throwing one.

Like it'd be one thing if people were criticizing why he keeps getting into fistfights rather than just magicking everything, but the idea that he's too tough to be manhandled by anything less than the Hulk is weird.

(The only thing popping in my head is the one kick from the redneck Sylvie enchanted and extrapolating from that, but even then it's not a pure clean-cut example.)
 

Tathanen

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,035
I don't think Loki started playing goofball Odin day one, it's been a year as people noted he probably slid into that position and people just ran with it since it was gradual. (Also Ragnarok's a comedy and changed the characterization for Thor and Hulk to match that tone too.)

As for him being "out of character" in this show, I think seeing his future, being humbled by the power of the TVA, these things affected him tangibly, and we're seeing the result.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
14,995
People keep bringing this up and I can't recall it off the top of my head but when was Loki ever shown to be super-strong? People keep saying he's superhuman as if he's superhuman across the board which isn't necessarily true, y'know. He's long-lived and can demonstrably take a beating, but he's not a warrior. Just because he can take a super-punch doesn't mean he's good at throwing one.

Like it'd be one thing if people were criticizing why he keeps getting into fistfights rather than just magicking everything, but the idea that he's too tough to be manhandled by anything less than the Hulk is weird.

(The only thing popping in my head is the one kick from the redneck Sylvie enchanted and extrapolating from that, but even then it's not a pure clean-cut example.)

He fights Thor hand to hand in the first Avengers, even tosses Thor around even. Also they throw down in Thor 1

If a being is able to be smashed around by the Hulk and he is up and fine a couple seconds later, then yes he would need to have super human strength to withstand that. Doesn't have anything to do with fighting capability.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,154
So I'm probably wrong but my current theory is that Slyvie is Loki as a child being told they were adopted.

She says she has been running from the TVA all her life, can not remember Freya except in little bits and seems to know no magic except enchantment.
Sylvie's Frigga's biological daughter. That's why they've planted all these Frigga seeds, that's why she's a woman/was born a woman as opposed to being born Loki and having something change along the way (and adamant that she's not a Loki at all, because she isn't, because she's not even frost giant), that's why she wanted to know about her mother, that (Frigga's magic) is how she managed to escape the TVA as a newborn, that's why they've avoided talking about her Nexus event, that's why she has blonde hair.

Sylvie wants to destroy the TVA because they reset/killed Frigga, Loki will end up wanting to help Frigga because she's his mother's daughter and helping her is some sort of penance, Sylvie will have some temporary tension-inducing beefconflict with Loki once she finds out Loki got Frigga killed at the worst possible moment, etc.

I just hope Owen Wilson doesn't turn evil.
 
Last edited:

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,154
Alright, I just have one question. Who the heck is Freya?
Whoops, Frigga

And maybe also Freya? They might be the same person mythologically I can't really tell

But anyway, that's all kind of the point -- she's not really the sort of character you'd remember to bring back up with the prominence they have if she wasn't important

Let's just call her Rene Russo
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,378
One thing I remember in reference to Loki's intelligence is, when talking about the original myths, he's not particularly, like... smart. His idea of "trickery" is just "blatantly lying and getting away with it." Like, with Idunn, the keeper of the golden apples of immortality, he just tells her... hey, I found some even better apples out in the woods, let's go check 'em out. And it works! Loki isn't smart, he's just charismatic and morally flexible and lucky to live in a society with lots of easy marks.

The original Thor movie is him playing a role - he's the "good son," keeps his head down, works hard, "deserves" power. It's the only time he's really truly ambitious with his scheming, and you can imagine he's had centuries to think about it. After that point? He's mostly just winging it, coasting along on second chances from Thor and some parlor tricks.

Here, as in Ragnarok, we're not supposed to take Loki seriously. He's a joke at this point - he had a couple big shots at victory, he bombed twice, and now he's just playing the greatest hits to a dwindling crowd. The whole first episode, from the dismissive TVA to his pitiful post-Avengers life, is a wakeup call that he's an arrogant, talentless loser who only made it so far thanks to good luck and a family that gives way too many chances.
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,378
Freyja and Frigga are actually one of those "two separate goddesses but they might just be two interpretations of the same prehistoric deity" situations, so it's an easy mistake.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,254
On that note it's honestly interesting how....provenly inferior Sylvie is to Loki. She clearly focused hard on enchantment because she's self-taught and doesn't know how to do much else, she's clearly far more aggressive and far more willing to throw down than Loki ever was (even having a sword at her hip at near-all times), and her whole plan really comes off more like a superpowered woman trying to take down the TVA than a Loki variant trying to take down the TVA. I'm both curious and hoping that that's addressed.

I wouldn't really say she's not trying to take them down in the smart and sneaky way you'd expect of a Loki - she has been on the run from the TVA for near on fifteen hundred years, after all, and it's only because Loki showed up that things have been going way off plan. She had successfully stolen all those time bombs and sent them to her intended targets and she even knows how to get to the Time Keepers, but then Loki messed everything up and she currently has no way to get back.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,650
He fights Thor hand to hand in the first Avengers, even tosses Thor around even. Also they throw down in Thor 1

If a being is able to be smashed around by the Hulk and he is up and fine a couple seconds later, then yes he would need to have super human strength to withstand that. Doesn't have anything to do with fighting capability.

No, that's not how this works. Strength can suggest toughness (because how else do you not destroy your hand throwing a punch that hard) but toughness doesn't necessarily suggest strength, especially when said toughness is effectively an Asgardian/Jotunn racial trait, and even more so since Loki focuses entirely on magic, illusions, and trickery. Until he does it we can't say he can rip through a car just because he feasibly can, we're not playing OBD bloodlust rules here lmao.

For the record quickly looking up and he is indeed technically stronger than humans, but also his strength feats are honestly kinda lacking even accounting for how little time he spends specifically squabbling with humans. And no, him not getting punted a couple blocks every time Thor swings his hammer at him isn't a feat.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
I didn't realize Mobius was literally carrying this show entirely on his back what happened? Did they change writers? Why is the script suddenly so much worse?
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
14,995
No, that's not how this works. Strength can suggest toughness (because how else do you not destroy your hand throwing a punch that hard) but toughness doesn't necessarily suggest strength, especially when said toughness is effectively an Asgardian/Jotunn racial trait, and even more so since Loki focuses entirely on magic, illusions, and trickery. Until he does it we can't say he can rip through a car just because he feasibly can, we're not playing OBD bloodlust rules here lmao.

For the record quickly looking up and he is indeed technically stronger than humans, but also his strength feats are honestly kinda lacking even accounting for how little time he spends specifically squabbling with humans. And no, him not getting punted a couple blocks every time Thor swings his hammer at him isn't a feat.

This isn't a video game or pen and paper RPG where you can someone with a ton of points in strength but super weak at same time cause of no points in toughness. The two traits are connected unless we are talking about some kind of magical healing/toughness factor. And again Thor who has super human strength is shown to be going toe to toe against Loki. Thor whose opening up a giant iris to the star forge, whose hammer swings can destroy giant alien robots in one blow, yet Loki can meet these blows and hold against Thor without issue? Anyone able to go toe to toe with Thor and his blows is super human in strength. When they can be locked in arms and Loki can even throw Thor... yea there is a big disconnect here.

He one hand picks up Tony Stark with ease and chucks him across a room and through a window in the Avengers too.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,086
Excuse me?

Loki's intelligence has always been written inconsistently. There's like zero reason for him to act so out of character from Odin in Ragnarok other than because its funny. Like the whole idea in Thor 1 was that Loki felt he was more mature, intelligent, and wise than Thor, who he saw as a reckless partier, and thus should've been the rightful ruler. He's even ribbed at by the Warrior's Three for being such a downer and should lighten up. Yet, when he's Odin he decides to become the very same reckless partier as Thor that any Asgardian should know is out of character for Odin.

So yeah, Loki's intelligence changes with every scene.

That's... the whole point of the Odin scene in Ragnarok.

Loki has spent his entire time jealous of Thor. Convinced he would be a better ruler. He's schemed and plotted multiple times to get it, and he eventually did. And he was useless. He was lazy and indolent and sat around jerking off to bad plays about himself and building statues. He was a terrible ruler. It wasn't a sudden change of character because we've never seen him actually winning before - and turns out he's terrible (as many people throughout history have turned out to be useless when they actually get the crown they wanted for years).

Which then ties into the end of the film, where Loki not only comes back and saves his people, but actually sticks around to help Thor rule when he could have pissed off as always. He accepted that he wasn't going to be King and he stood by Thor as the new ruler.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,979
That's... the whole point of the Odin scene in Ragnarok.

Loki has spent his entire time jealous of Thor. Convinced he would be a better ruler. He's schemed and plotted multiple times to get it, and he eventually did. And he was useless. He was lazy and indolent and sat around jerking off to bad plays about himself and building statues. He was a terrible ruler. It wasn't a sudden change of character because we've never seen him actually winning before - and turns out he's terrible (as many people throughout history have turned out to be useless when they actually get the crown they wanted for years).

Which then ties into the end of the film, where Loki not only comes back and saves his people, but actually sticks around to help Thor rule when he could have pissed off as always. He accepted that he wasn't going to be King and he stood by Thor as the new ruler.

Nah, you're reading too much into it. Then again, Loki is written so loosely you can just flip him when you want.

We saw him "win" in Thor 1. In the first film he successfully manipulates Odin to banish Thor then stresses Odin into a slumber. Afterwards he takes the throne and is mostly a stern and stoic ruler. He then seeks to prove his worth as ruler by eliminating Jotuheim. He didn't take the throne and start partying, he took his job seriously and sought to prove himself as the true worthy ruler of Asgard. So, you can easily argue its out of character for him to do the exact opposite in Ragnarok and instead he would see his position as another chance to prove to Odin and everyone else he's an effective leader instead of being an aloof ruler concerned only with self-vanity.

Again, Loki is written as all over the place but it mostly works because Hiddleston is that good.

EDIT:

I'd actually argue its even further out of character for him within Ragnarok since Hela briefly throws out the idea that Loki inherited Odin's guile and wisdom whereas Thor took his strength. When she appears she mentions that Thor "doesn't look like him" but Loki "sounds like him." So, its kinda weird the dude whose seen as being as intelligent as Odin is actually a dumbass, ineffective ruler.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,254
So uh.. since when does Loki knows telekinesis ?
Heck, it looked more like time reversing then telekinesis wth

We've actually seen him use telekinesis a few times over the years but that was indeed his most impressive showing with it. I assume he just got a buff on account of Strange and Wanda doing far better stuff with their magic than him to date and that not really making any sense. He's a god, after all, so his magic should be stronger than theirs.
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,154
We've actually seen him use telekinesis a few times over the years but that was indeed his most impressive showing with it. I assume he just got a buff on account of Strange and Wanda doing far better stuff with their magic than him to date and that not really making any sense. He's a god, after all, so his magic should be stronger than theirs.
Other than not knowing literally the first thing that they teach any basic ass human that walks through the door at kamar-taj

maxresdefault.jpg

yes i know it needs a ringthing
 

Richiek

Member
Nov 2, 2017
12,063
He fights Thor hand to hand in the first Avengers, even tosses Thor around even. Also they throw down in Thor 1

If a being is able to be smashed around by the Hulk and he is up and fine a couple seconds later, then yes he would need to have super human strength to withstand that. Doesn't have anything to do with fighting capability.

Loki may be able hang with Thor in a fight, but in terms of pure strength, Thor outclasses him easily, as he eventually gets outmatched and overpowered towards the end. Which makes sense considering Loki relies more on trickery and guile instead of brute strength. See his fight with Valkyrie in Ragnarok.

EDIT speaking of which it seems Loki seems to have a similar enchantment power when he forces her to remember her battle with Hela.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Other than not knowing literally the first thing that they teach any basic ass human that walks through the door at kamar-taj

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The portal thing? I mean, different priorities right? Heimdall makes stuff like that kinda irrelevant if he's able to create a bridge to and from literally anywhere in the universe. That and Asgardian magic would obviously be different to the Eldritch magic that the Ancient One taught.

Loki also focused on a certain kind of magic which allowed him to avoid fighting entirely, so it's no real wonder he has only really been gaining more firepower lately as the threats he faces can no longer be avoided. He even has that energy blast now that seems to be able to instantly kill TVA agents.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,979
Loki may be able hang with Thor in a fight, but in terms of pure strength, Thor outclasses him easily, as he eventually gets outmatched and overpowered towards the end. Which makes sense considering Loki relies more on trickery and guile instead of brute strength. See his fight with Valkyrie in Ragnarok.

I think expecting any consistent power levels in the MCU is just ridiculous. A character is only ever as powerful as the plot demands.