• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

How Do You Feel About the New Look?

  • I like it

    Votes: 1,289 33.6%
  • I'm ambivalent

    Votes: 628 16.4%
  • I prefer the old look

    Votes: 1,353 35.2%
  • Thor: The Dark World

    Votes: 570 14.8%

  • Total voters
    3,840

alundra311

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,231
Guy looks a bit like Tom Holland. This is just MCU pandering. I hate it when they try to make every character look how they are in the MCU.

Not like the previous model was any better either but, eh.
 

2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,560
So the remaster is a digital title that functions like a standalone digital product and you can buy it from Miles PS5 in-game menu?

So if I just borrow/rent a copy of the PS4 or PS5 Miles disc, and only want to keep the Remaster, I can just use the disc in a PS5 to buy the SM remaster for $20, and I never need the disc again?
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
Like we said before, Peter model was changed to make it closer to Yuri so his facial mo-cap could translate better
The thing is that again, the final product doesn't stop and end at the character resembling the character the actor. There are way more important factors to consider in the process that leads to the final render that the audience sees.
You get no argument from me that any digital puppet can do any number of emotions if enough work is put in, but the point of the technology is not to have to put the work in and manually animate everything, its why they do live performance capture now.
I think you underestimate just how much work goes into manual animation regardless of facial animation.
The point of the technology is to as authentically as possible convey the actors performance onto a digital character.

If they have a technology pipeline that honors an actor's performance better than they can feasibly do by hand with budget and time constraints then it makes sense to align those things. In this case, they aligned the character model to their actor. The proof will be in the pudding when we see those cutscenes.
If anything it shows the importance of time the animation team is given since based on the initial comparison the older version looks more noticeably expressive in spite of the newer version looking more realistic in stills. Which like I said reminds me a lot of Tomb Raider 1's remaster.

It's not a discussion about what can and can't be done, it's a discussion about how to use technology in the best way possible and make decisions based on the tools that exist today.

If you want to argue that Death Stranding is a game where the characters don't look like the motion capture actors that embodied them for the overwhelming majority of the cutscene performances... I'm not sure how we can have a conversation about it unless I've completely lost my memory.
Heartman, Deadman, and Amelie are all played by completely different people than the people they scanned in for the digital double.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
It honestly looks like they just wanted a guy who looks like Tom Holland without being Tom Holland.

So like the Avengers game.
 

CaptainKashup

Banned
May 10, 2018
8,313
I'm saying this Peter looks younger than SM1 Miles, though.

Marvels-Spider-Man_20180830211438-1280x720.png


This honestly feels like you're trolling
 

CaptainKashup

Banned
May 10, 2018
8,313

Jeffram

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,924
The thing is that again, the final product doesn't stop and end at the character resembling the character the actor. There are way more important factors to consider in the process that leads to the final render that the audience sees.

I think you underestimate just how much work goes into manual animation regardless of facial animation.

If anything it shows the importance of time the animation team is given since based on the initial comparison the older version looks more noticeably expressive in spite of the newer version looking more realistic in stills. Which like I said reminds me a lot of Tomb Raider 1's remaster.


Heartman, Deadman, and Amelie are all played by completely different people than the people they scanned in for the digital double.
I don't think this decision is about Spider-man remastered, it's about the future games where they have decided to go with a different face (which probably shows up in Miles Morales) and it made sense to replace it in the remaster. I really don't know if you can draw many conclusions from the limited scene we've been shown.

As for Death Stranding, most characters matched their actors. From a performance standpoint I think the best scenes or overall performances were from those characters too. Mads in general, Reedus in general, then the exceptional Die-Hardman scene as well as the Mama backstory scene were the standouts of the game. There's an argument that we got better quality animations out of those characters.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
Watching the clip of Peter and Dock Ock my opinion is this:

- While graphically better and of a higher fidelity, the new face is less expressive than the older one. Certainly it more detailed expressions and points of articulation but the original versions expressions are a lot bigger and clearer.

- Peters new face is also noticably better looking than Otto's. Is everyone else's face getting an upgrade is Pete face model just gonna be jarringly better looking than everyone else.

- he's a bit too good looking now. Loses a lot of the every man charm of the previous version. That and it's not too ridiculous to assume they're trying to ape Holland (as honestly is looks far more like Tom Holland than Yuri Lowenthall).
 

Alex2DX

Member
Nov 6, 2017
1,164
Damn, don't really wanna play through it again but it looks fantastic. Looking forward to Miles Morales.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
I don't think this decision is about Spider-man remastered, it's about the future games where they have decided to go with a different face (which probably shows up in Miles Morales) and it made sense to replace it in the remaster. I really don't know if you can draw many conclusions from the limited scene we've been shown.
I pointed to Tomb Raider as an example for a reason.

As for Death Stranding, most characters matched their actors. From a performance standpoint I think the best scenes or overall performances were from those characters too. Mads in general, Reedus in general, then the exceptional Die-Hardman scene as well as the Mama backstory scene were the standouts of the game. There's an argument that we got better quality animations out of those characters.
For entire different reasons than "the digital doubles matched the characters." The performances of the actors/actress, animation wise, was matched across the board when it came the quality. VA performances and such are subjective. See Lea Seydoux and that one singer very unfortunately having the worst performances and lines in the game. Hell, Norman Reedus wasn't even particularly good imo. But none of that has anything to do with the animation.
 

s y

Member
Nov 8, 2017
10,427
Not trolling. The SM1 version of Miles looks like he's 18 and this new Peter looks like a 17-year-old. They gave him an absolute baby face.
eh, depends on the angle,
dBdvzVv.png

tWOlwNT.png

p9guRKH.png


At the same time, if you told me Miles was the same age as Peter, I wouldn't blink but iirc Peter is quite a bit taller so that'll sell it for the scenes when they're together.
 

AnythingElse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
475
Last edited:

JaseC64

Enlightened
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,008
Strong Island NY
It honestly looks like they just wanted a guy who looks like Tom Holland without being Tom Holland.

So like the Avengers game.
I wonder if getting Tom's likeness was just too expensive to put?

And nothing like Avengers game. Those ugly ass in game characters don't even resemble the movie stars. Something is really wrong with their faces. The only character that looks decent is Kamala to me. Same idea but better execution by Insomniac.
 

Asklepios

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,505
United Kingdom
Don't mind either way but the old one objectively looks different and memorable from the typical "Parker-face" we have seen since Toby Maguire. But hey no ones gonna complain as long it's a pretty face and voice acting is good.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,081
Los Angeles, CA
I would've understood them changing it if it wasn't based on a real person, but it was. Could've just updated it. Sad to see it gone.

I don't get the "to make him look more like Lowenthal" reasoning...who cares? It feels like a deepfake to me now and worse fitting than before.

The thing is, it wasn't just "to make him look more like Lowenthal" for artistic reasons, but performance reasons. Yuri Lowenthal did the voice work, and the motion capture for Peter Parker. That means that the motion tracking dots were mapped to Yuri's face, not the face model. With the facial structure of both Yuri and the face model being so different, there would be problems mapping that facial capture onto the character model.

Now let's say that Peter Parker's PS4 character model has X number of bones on his face. The difference in bone structure probably wasn't as big of a deal, because there was a limited number of bones on the face that could be manipulated to make the facial expressions needed for that performance. A lot of work probably went into the original Spider-Man PS4 game to get the result we got, which was pretty good.

Now let's say that Peter Parker PS5's character model has XXXX number of bones on his face. Now, he has a wider expressive palette to play around with, unfortunately, because of the structure of Yuri Lowenthal's face, the motion capture tracking dots align differently on this higher fidelity model. The amount of work to then get the depth of the performance they need for Spider-Man PS5 is now quite an undertaking. The "simpler" solution, would then be to find a face actor who's structure closer resembles Yuri's. Now, the motion capture dots map to the in game model closer, resulting in a tighter, more emotive translation of Yuri's performance.

While I didn't hate OG Peter's look, one of the things I noticed during the many times I played Spider-Man, and watched Lets Plays of the game, is that his facial animations were "stiffer" than the animations of characters like Otto, Norman, May, and MJ, for example. Otto in particular is a standout, which is no surprise, as the voice actor and motion capture actor of Otto is the same person, so the motion tracking dots on his face map very well to his in game model. I actually had to get used to the OG Peter's face over the course of the game, because, in my head, I associated Spider-Man in 3 dimensions so much with Tobey Maguire and Tom Holland (sorry, Andrew Garfield, you were a great Spidey, but I couldn't stand your Peter Parker). I'll have the same adjustment to make with this new Peter.

Now, obviously Yuri and the new face actor don't look exactly alike, but the structure of their faces is similar, meaning a better match between the motion captured Yuri, and the in game model of Peter, especially compared to the original one.

This is 100% speculation on my part, as I obviously don't know the behind the scenes at Insomniac, but basing it off of what I know of motion capture and facial capture, this seems like the likely reason for the change: to get a more emotive performance out of Peter Parker for future Spider-Man games, and since they were already working on this Remaster of Spidey, why not update that model as well?

Motion capture, and in particular, facial capture, isn't as simple as "press button to capture emotions." A lot of work goes into it. Look at Naughty Dog's output in that area. They used to hand animated the faces to tighten up the facial capture performances. Now they don't have to, but it's still a lot of work to get the level of performances they manage to get in the Uncharted and The Last of Us games. Insomniac has entered that arena with the Spider-Man games, and they are upping their prowess with it with each successive game.

I'm super impressed by what they did with Spidey PS4, and even moreso with Miles and this Remaster of PS4 Spidey.
 

NO!R

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,742
The thing is, it wasn't just "to make him look more like Lowenthal" for artistic reasons, but performance reasons. Yuri Lowenthal did the voice work, and the motion capture for Peter Parker. That means that the motion tracking dots were mapped to Yuri's face, not the face model. With the facial structure of both Yuri and the face model being so different, there would be problems mapping that facial capture onto the character model.

Now let's say that Peter Parker's PS4 character model has X number of bones on his face. The difference in bone structure probably wasn't as big of a deal, because there was a limited number of bones on the face that could be manipulated to make the facial expressions needed for that performance. A lot of work probably went into the original Spider-Man PS4 game to get the result we got, which was pretty good.

Now let's say that Peter Parker PS5's character model has XXXX number of bones on his face. Now, he has a wider expressive palette to play around with, unfortunately, because of the structure of Yuri Lowenthal's face, the motion capture tracking dots align differently on this higher fidelity model. The amount of work to then get the depth of the performance they need for Spider-Man PS5 is now quite an undertaking. The "simpler" solution, would then be to find a face actor who's structure closer resembles Yuri's. Now, the motion capture dots map to the in game model closer, resulting in a tighter, more emotive translation of Yuri's performance.

While I didn't hate OG Peter's look, one of the things I noticed during the many times I played Spider-Man, and watched Lets Plays of the game, is that his facial animations were "stiffer" than the animations of characters like Otto, Norman, May, and MJ, for example. Otto in particular is a standout, which is no surprise, as the voice actor and motion capture actor of Otto is the same person, so the motion tracking dots on his face map very well to his in game model. I actually had to get used to the OG Peter's face over the course of the game, because, in my head, I associated Spider-Man in 3 dimensions so much with Tobey Maguire and Tom Holland (sorry, Andrew Garfield, you were a great Spidey, but I couldn't stand your Peter Parker). I'll have the same adjustment to make with this new Peter.

Now, obviously Yuri and the new face actor don't look exactly alike, but the structure of their faces is similar, meaning a better match between the motion captured Yuri, and the in game model of Peter, especially compared to the original one.

This is 100% speculation on my part, as I obviously don't know the behind the scenes at Insomniac, but basing it off of what I know of motion capture and facial capture, this seems like the likely reason for the change: to get a more emotive performance out of Peter Parker for future Spider-Man games, and since they were already working on this Remaster of Spidey, why not update that model as well?

Motion capture, and in particular, facial capture, isn't as simple as "press button to capture emotions." A lot of work goes into it. Look at Naughty Dog's output in that area. They used to hand animated the faces to tighten up the facial capture performances. Now they don't have to, but it's still a lot of work to get the level of performances they manage to get in the Uncharted and The Last of Us games. Insomniac has entered that arena with the Spider-Man games, and they are upping their prowess with it with each successive game.

I'm super impressed by what they did with Spidey PS4, and even moreso with Miles and this Remaster of PS4 Spidey.

Awesome post. :)

Got me hyped.
 

Kirudo

Member
May 1, 2020
502
The thing is, it wasn't just "to make him look more like Lowenthal" for artistic reasons, but performance reasons. Yuri Lowenthal did the voice work, and the motion capture for Peter Parker. That means that the motion tracking dots were mapped to Yuri's face, not the face model. With the facial structure of both Yuri and the face model being so different, there would be problems mapping that facial capture onto the character model.

Now let's say that Peter Parker's PS4 character model has X number of bones on his face. The difference in bone structure probably wasn't as big of a deal, because there was a limited number of bones on the face that could be manipulated to make the facial expressions needed for that performance. A lot of work probably went into the original Spider-Man PS4 game to get the result we got, which was pretty good.

Now let's say that Peter Parker PS5's character model has XXXX number of bones on his face. Now, he has a wider expressive palette to play around with, unfortunately, because of the structure of Yuri Lowenthal's face, the motion capture tracking dots align differently on this higher fidelity model. The amount of work to then get the depth of the performance they need for Spider-Man PS5 is now quite an undertaking. The "simpler" solution, would then be to find a face actor who's structure closer resembles Yuri's. Now, the motion capture dots map to the in game model closer, resulting in a tighter, more emotive translation of Yuri's performance.

While I didn't hate OG Peter's look, one of the things I noticed during the many times I played Spider-Man, and watched Lets Plays of the game, is that his facial animations were "stiffer" than the animations of characters like Otto, Norman, May, and MJ, for example. Otto in particular is a standout, which is no surprise, as the voice actor and motion capture actor of Otto is the same person, so the motion tracking dots on his face map very well to his in game model. I actually had to get used to the OG Peter's face over the course of the game, because, in my head, I associated Spider-Man in 3 dimensions so much with Tobey Maguire and Tom Holland (sorry, Andrew Garfield, you were a great Spidey, but I couldn't stand your Peter Parker). I'll have the same adjustment to make with this new Peter.

Now, obviously Yuri and the new face actor don't look exactly alike, but the structure of their faces is similar, meaning a better match between the motion captured Yuri, and the in game model of Peter, especially compared to the original one.

This is 100% speculation on my part, as I obviously don't know the behind the scenes at Insomniac, but basing it off of what I know of motion capture and facial capture, this seems like the likely reason for the change: to get a more emotive performance out of Peter Parker for future Spider-Man games, and since they were already working on this Remaster of Spidey, why not update that model as well?

Motion capture, and in particular, facial capture, isn't as simple as "press button to capture emotions." A lot of work goes into it. Look at Naughty Dog's output in that area. They used to hand animated the faces to tighten up the facial capture performances. Now they don't have to, but it's still a lot of work to get the level of performances they manage to get in the Uncharted and The Last of Us games. Insomniac has entered that arena with the Spider-Man games, and they are upping their prowess with it with each successive game.

I'm super impressed by what they did with Spidey PS4, and even moreso with Miles and this Remaster of PS4 Spidey.

You always post very interesting things, I appreciate that among so many discussions, you take the time to explain a little more how these technologies work.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,381
Ibis Island
I'm fine with the change, but I preferred the older look. There was a twitter post that made a good point of the older model looked more like a older spider-man that had been doing it for 8 years (Despite being only 24). The newer model loses that I feel, even if the change is understandable especially from a dev angle.
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
The thing is, it wasn't just "to make him look more like Lowenthal" for artistic reasons, but performance reasons. Yuri Lowenthal did the voice work, and the motion capture for Peter Parker. That means that the motion tracking dots were mapped to Yuri's face, not the face model. With the facial structure of both Yuri and the face model being so different, there would be problems mapping that facial capture onto the character model.

Now let's say that Peter Parker's PS4 character model has X number of bones on his face. The difference in bone structure probably wasn't as big of a deal, because there was a limited number of bones on the face that could be manipulated to make the facial expressions needed for that performance. A lot of work probably went into the original Spider-Man PS4 game to get the result we got, which was pretty good.

Now let's say that Peter Parker PS5's character model has XXXX number of bones on his face. Now, he has a wider expressive palette to play around with, unfortunately, because of the structure of Yuri Lowenthal's face, the motion capture tracking dots align differently on this higher fidelity model. The amount of work to then get the depth of the performance they need for Spider-Man PS5 is now quite an undertaking. The "simpler" solution, would then be to find a face actor who's structure closer resembles Yuri's. Now, the motion capture dots map to the in game model closer, resulting in a tighter, more emotive translation of Yuri's performance.

While I didn't hate OG Peter's look, one of the things I noticed during the many times I played Spider-Man, and watched Lets Plays of the game, is that his facial animations were "stiffer" than the animations of characters like Otto, Norman, May, and MJ, for example. Otto in particular is a standout, which is no surprise, as the voice actor and motion capture actor of Otto is the same person, so the motion tracking dots on his face map very well to his in game model. I actually had to get used to the OG Peter's face over the course of the game, because, in my head, I associated Spider-Man in 3 dimensions so much with Tobey Maguire and Tom Holland (sorry, Andrew Garfield, you were a great Spidey, but I couldn't stand your Peter Parker). I'll have the same adjustment to make with this new Peter.

Now, obviously Yuri and the new face actor don't look exactly alike, but the structure of their faces is similar, meaning a better match between the motion captured Yuri, and the in game model of Peter, especially compared to the original one.

This is 100% speculation on my part, as I obviously don't know the behind the scenes at Insomniac, but basing it off of what I know of motion capture and facial capture, this seems like the likely reason for the change: to get a more emotive performance out of Peter Parker for future Spider-Man games, and since they were already working on this Remaster of Spidey, why not update that model as well?

Motion capture, and in particular, facial capture, isn't as simple as "press button to capture emotions." A lot of work goes into it. Look at Naughty Dog's output in that area. They used to hand animated the faces to tighten up the facial capture performances. Now they don't have to, but it's still a lot of work to get the level of performances they manage to get in the Uncharted and The Last of Us games. Insomniac has entered that arena with the Spider-Man games, and they are upping their prowess with it with each successive game.

I'm super impressed by what they did with Spidey PS4, and even moreso with Miles and this Remaster of PS4 Spidey.

Great post.

I know a lot of people are shocked by the announcement today, but I'm personally more shocked about the night and day difference in quality between the PS4 and PS5 model

The PS4 Peter looks very cartoony and like a high quality video game NPC. Something always looked a little awkward and off.

The PS5 Peter looks realistic and stylized, and is one of the best looking and animating character models I've seen in a game.

The difference is staggering.
 

Yoshi88

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,124
Faces in Spiderman were hit and miss for me. And Peter sadly was a huge miss in my eyes. Even seeing that thumbnail again I'm reminded how weird I felt when looking at him. Not quite realistic, but not completely self-modeled either and definitely some degree of uncanny valley mixed in. He and MJ always stood out I'm cutscenes and not in a good way.

New Peter is much better 👍🏻

(Octavius' and Miles' face for example were already really good.)

Edit: I think figboys post is a great explanation of my problems with the old face.
 

Arex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,493
Indonesia
The thing is, it wasn't just "to make him look more like Lowenthal" for artistic reasons, but performance reasons. Yuri Lowenthal did the voice work, and the motion capture for Peter Parker. That means that the motion tracking dots were mapped to Yuri's face, not the face model. With the facial structure of both Yuri and the face model being so different, there would be problems mapping that facial capture onto the character model.

Now let's say that Peter Parker's PS4 character model has X number of bones on his face. The difference in bone structure probably wasn't as big of a deal, because there was a limited number of bones on the face that could be manipulated to make the facial expressions needed for that performance. A lot of work probably went into the original Spider-Man PS4 game to get the result we got, which was pretty good.

Now let's say that Peter Parker PS5's character model has XXXX number of bones on his face. Now, he has a wider expressive palette to play around with, unfortunately, because of the structure of Yuri Lowenthal's face, the motion capture tracking dots align differently on this higher fidelity model. The amount of work to then get the depth of the performance they need for Spider-Man PS5 is now quite an undertaking. The "simpler" solution, would then be to find a face actor who's structure closer resembles Yuri's. Now, the motion capture dots map to the in game model closer, resulting in a tighter, more emotive translation of Yuri's performance.

While I didn't hate OG Peter's look, one of the things I noticed during the many times I played Spider-Man, and watched Lets Plays of the game, is that his facial animations were "stiffer" than the animations of characters like Otto, Norman, May, and MJ, for example. Otto in particular is a standout, which is no surprise, as the voice actor and motion capture actor of Otto is the same person, so the motion tracking dots on his face map very well to his in game model. I actually had to get used to the OG Peter's face over the course of the game, because, in my head, I associated Spider-Man in 3 dimensions so much with Tobey Maguire and Tom Holland (sorry, Andrew Garfield, you were a great Spidey, but I couldn't stand your Peter Parker). I'll have the same adjustment to make with this new Peter.

Now, obviously Yuri and the new face actor don't look exactly alike, but the structure of their faces is similar, meaning a better match between the motion captured Yuri, and the in game model of Peter, especially compared to the original one.

This is 100% speculation on my part, as I obviously don't know the behind the scenes at Insomniac, but basing it off of what I know of motion capture and facial capture, this seems like the likely reason for the change: to get a more emotive performance out of Peter Parker for future Spider-Man games, and since they were already working on this Remaster of Spidey, why not update that model as well?

Motion capture, and in particular, facial capture, isn't as simple as "press button to capture emotions." A lot of work goes into it. Look at Naughty Dog's output in that area. They used to hand animated the faces to tighten up the facial capture performances. Now they don't have to, but it's still a lot of work to get the level of performances they manage to get in the Uncharted and The Last of Us games. Insomniac has entered that arena with the Spider-Man games, and they are upping their prowess with it with each successive game.

I'm super impressed by what they did with Spidey PS4, and even moreso with Miles and this Remaster of PS4 Spidey.
You explained it much better than I could lol.
Also this is probably mainly done for Spider-Man 2. Spider-Man Remastered might still use the original capture with X number of bones, but well, may as well replace the face model. We'll probably see better expression/ performance in the sequel and maybe Miles Morales if Peter appears there :P
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,081
Los Angeles, CA
Awesome post. :)

Got me hyped.
You always post very interesting things, I appreciate that among so many discussions, you take the time to explain a little more how these technologies work.

Thank you guys so much!

I probably mentioned it before in one of my many other walls of text, but my perspective on game development has grown and changed so much since entering the industry 15+ years ago. Like, not just seeing how the sausage is made, but being a part of making the sausage has given me such a different perspective than I had 2 decades ago.

I'm extremely fascinated by the process of making video games, and I love watching behind the scenes documentaries about the making of some of the most advanced games we've seen over the years. And those documentaries still don't really tell the whole story, or how grueling of a process it is to make a game like The Last of Us, or Spider-Man, or God of War, or Horizon Zero Dawn.

I'm not a technical designer by any means, but I do my best to try and understand as much about developing games as I can. I feel like that understanding helps me improve my own understanding on my side of the production pipeline (I'm a combat designer, as well as an integrator at my job, I also worked on combat data and combat balancing before transitioning over to integration). One of the things I really miss due to this working from home situation, is being able to walk over to the other departments and chat with the engineers and animators, and have them explain to me how things are working, or why I need to do X thing because doing it Y will break the build (and I'll tell you, I've broken many a build at work XD XD )

You explained it much better than I could lol.
Also this is probably mainly done for Spider-Man 2. Spider-Man Remastered might still use the original capture with X number of bones, but well, may as well replace the face model. We'll probably see better expression/ performance in the sequel and maybe Miles Morales if Peter appears there :P

Thank you! And yeah, that's my thinking as well. This was done more for consistency between the new games, and I imagine that Peter in Miles Morales (indeed, if he shows up), and Peter in Spider-Man 2: Revengeance, will be markedly improved as far as facial performances go! There are definitely some key scenes in Spider-Man PS4 that I'm eager to see with this new character model, that's for sure.
 

Danielsan

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,627
The Netherlands
Going to be honest. Spider-man PS4 probably had my favourite Peter Parker in ages and the new face really does not match the character that he is in that game. I understand that they have their technical reasons, but for me it hurts the product more than it does it any good.
 

Kirudo

Member
May 1, 2020
502
Thank you guys so much!

I probably mentioned it before in one of my many other walls of text, but my perspective on game development has grown and changed so much since entering the industry 15+ years ago. Like, not just seeing how the sausage is made, but being a part of making the sausage has given me such a different perspective than I had 2 decades ago.

I'm extremely fascinated by the process of making video games, and I love watching behind the scenes documentaries about the making of some of the most advanced games we've seen over the years. And those documentaries still don't really tell the whole story, or how grueling of a process it is to make a game like The Last of Us, or Spider-Man, or God of War, or Horizon Zero Dawn.

I'm not a technical designer by any means, but I do my best to try and understand as much about developing games as I can. I feel like that understanding helps me improve my own understanding on my side of the production pipeline (I'm a combat designer, as well as an integrator at my job, I also worked on combat data and combat balancing before transitioning over to integration). One of the things I really miss due to this working from home situation, is being able to walk over to the other departments and chat with the engineers and animators, and have them explain to me how things are working, or why I need to do X thing because doing it Y will break the build (and I'll tell you, I've broken many a build at work XD XD )



Thank you! And yeah, that's my thinking as well. This was done more for consistency between the new games, and I imagine that Peter in Miles Morales (indeed, if he shows up), and Peter in Spider-Man 2: Revengeance, will be markedly improved as far as facial performances go! There are definitely some key scenes in Spider-Man PS4 that I'm eager to see with this new character model, that's for sure.

oh please go ahead with your text walls, I usually read them on the Playstation Studios thread.

It is always interesting to know more about the ibdustria and the development of videogames, for us players, all the work that goes on behind so that we get the finished product is very abstract.

You are all geniuses, you have my respect, I hope the covid ends soon and we can get back to normal!
 

SubTXT

Member
Jul 24, 2020
269
This is 100% speculation on my part, as I obviously don't know the behind the scenes at Insomniac, but basing it off of what I know of motion capture and facial capture, this seems like the likely reason for the change: to get a more emotive performance out of Peter Parker for future Spider-Man games, and since they were already working on this Remaster of Spidey, why not update that model as well?

Motion capture, and in particular, facial capture, isn't as simple as "press button to capture emotions." A lot of work goes into it. Look at Naughty Dog's output in that area. They used to hand animated the faces to tighten up the facial capture performances. Now they don't have to, but it's still a lot of work to get the level of performances they manage to get in the Uncharted and The Last of Us games. Insomniac has entered that arena with the Spider-Man games, and they are upping their prowess with it with each successive game.

I'm super impressed by what they did with Spidey PS4, and even moreso with Miles and this Remaster of PS4 Spidey.

I like your post in theory, but I think PS4 Peter looked more expressive in the teaser scene they showed. That said, I will agree that there was a "weirdness" to PS4 Pete's facial animations at times.
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
Until I saw this thread I honestly had no idea Peter was supposed to be 23 in the first game. I thought he was early/mid-30s easy.
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,081
Los Angeles, CA
oh please go ahead with your text walls, I usually read them on the Playstation Studios thread.

It is always interesting to know more about the ibdustria and the development of videogames, for us players, all the work that goes on behind so that we get the finished product is very abstract.

You are all geniuses, you have my respect, I hope the covid ends soon and we can get back to normal!

Thank you so much! I know I was incredibly naive and ignorant when it came to game development and what actually goes into making video games, and it really wasn't until I got in the industry in my early 20's where I was like, "God damn, I had no idea! What have I gotten myself into??"

And seriously, I really hope we're able to lick this covid pandemic and return to some semblance of normalcy. The fact that I've adjusted so well to this "new normal" is a little disturbing to me lol

I like your post in theory, but I think PS4 Peter looked more expressive in the teaser scene they showed. That said, I will agree that there was a "weirdness" to PS4 Pete's facial animations at times.

Oh yeah, it's totally speculation on my part, only based in my limited knowledge of how motion capture is done, and some of the bits of animation modeling knowledge I've gleaned from the animators at work. It's hardly a definitive statement on what Insomniac did for Spidey. Looking at the comparison video, OG Peter's facial animations weren't particularly expressive in that scene either. Especially compared to some of the later scenes in the game. Those are the ones I'm really looking forward to seeing with this new model.

Peter Parker just casually hanging out in the neighborhood.

5035540xHARaOp.jpg


dab5b96ba8f865282d8f2de28da58569.jpg



dc49d55383e4cf576b276d6b0023be49.jpg

What a nerd! Button up your shirt, Parker!! He'll never impress Mary Jane looking like that...