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Martin Scorsese Says Marvel Movies Are “Not Cinema”
- Thread starter Lifejumper
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The quote implies he tried watching them, which could mean he watched one or two etc. Does he have to watch the entire MCU to have a say?
I bailed after watching a couple of their movies cos I thought they were poor too.
I don't think that's true just by nature of experience. The average MCU fan is most likely just a casual consumer of movies in comparison to a director who has dedicated his life to the craft. Not to discount anyone's opinion but there are definitely more informed opinions even if someone hasn't experienced MCU movies firsthand. It's like saying "oh this master class chef didn't eat all of the flavors of gummy worms. you have though so you're more qualified to say the gummy worms are better than a 5-star restaurant"
I hate when people say one movie isn't "cinema" or another is. No one gets to make that choice.
A movie is a movie, even if it's terrible, it's still a movie.
Sure, you are entitled to an opinion and can say how much it sucks, but to say "it's not cinema" is th esame as people slaying iadventure games aren't "games."
As someone who is a fan of both horror movies and comedies it's so fucking annoying when both genre's are just constantly overlooked when it comes to awards and other areas because they aren't dramas.
I think that's pretty much what he is trying to say here, the movies aren't a "drama" enough and grounded for him, however asmuch as he doesn't like them they are absolutely 100% as much a part of cinema as his movies are, rather he likes it or not.
What really sucks, is that apart from his bullshit gatekeeping, I agree in some part, I'm not a huge fan of the marvel movies, they are very shallow imo and a lot of them feel way too similar in terms of structure/themes, etc, but they are still "cinema."
A movie is a movie, even if it's terrible, it's still a movie.
Sure, you are entitled to an opinion and can say how much it sucks, but to say "it's not cinema" is th esame as people slaying iadventure games aren't "games."
As someone who is a fan of both horror movies and comedies it's so fucking annoying when both genre's are just constantly overlooked when it comes to awards and other areas because they aren't dramas.
I think that's pretty much what he is trying to say here, the movies aren't a "drama" enough and grounded for him, however asmuch as he doesn't like them they are absolutely 100% as much a part of cinema as his movies are, rather he likes it or not.
What really sucks, is that apart from his bullshit gatekeeping, I agree in some part, I'm not a huge fan of the marvel movies, they are very shallow imo and a lot of them feel way too similar in terms of structure/themes, etc, but they are still "cinema."
Now you'll never get a minority rep as a lead in Star Wars!!!
I'm not a big fan of superhero films, but if Endgame was trying to be a theme park ride, it wasn't very successful. I'd say it qualifies as kino.
Pretty unfair to some actors in the MCU IMO.
RDJ's Iron Man is an incredible character. Same with Evans' Captain America, Hemsworth's Thor and Holland's Spiderman. I don't think it's fair to minimize their performances and abilities to inhabit these larger than life characters.
RDJ's Iron Man is an incredible character. Same with Evans' Captain America, Hemsworth's Thor and Holland's Spiderman. I don't think it's fair to minimize their performances and abilities to inhabit these larger than life characters.
They are fun movies but they are shallow.
I dont care about any of the Marvel characters when there is never anything at stake for them and they are superhero aliens who are always cracking jokes every second. I can't relate to any of that, and it just drives me up the wall to see all the characters quip the same exact way. In fact, it just makes me hate the characters when they are always acting like they are playing some video game rather than being caught up in something really important.
The plots and dialogue are too cheesy and basic. Not to disrespect the work the talent put in though.
I dont care about any of the Marvel characters when there is never anything at stake for them and they are superhero aliens who are always cracking jokes every second. I can't relate to any of that, and it just drives me up the wall to see all the characters quip the same exact way. In fact, it just makes me hate the characters when they are always acting like they are playing some video game rather than being caught up in something really important.
The plots and dialogue are too cheesy and basic. Not to disrespect the work the talent put in though.
The boomer mind?
Really?
It's a baby boomer thing?
?????????
It was the boomers, even before we knew it was the boomers, I knew it was them.
if cinema is to equal art, and art is to equal meaningful human expression, then MCU movies are definitely at least only a lesser form of cinema at best - MCU movies are largely an expression of corporate IP and not human expression, and corporations are not people, regardless of what the supreme court says
It's just a bad look. Your example is a great one. Logan is not endgame is not Ant Man is not Ragnarok. The movies aren't monolithic in tone or pace or quality or style or even genre. He happens to be right about a few but imagine this was literature? "Haven't read it but 1984 is a short pulpy sci fi novella."
True, I understand there is an emotional attachment to the characters. But, how can we truly relate to characters that have supernatural, and technological powers. Their experience is far different. I could the feel the emotional despair and anxiety in Vittorio De Sicas's bicycle thieves when the character Antonio Ricci was desperately looking for work to provide for his family, and his livelihood was threatened. That's a very relatable experience in the human condition.
Reasonable?
For reference, this is analogous to Kojima looking at, say, Street Fighter and saying "those aren't video games." It's going straight from "x isn't art" to "x can't even be considered to be of the medium it was created in."
I love Scorcese, and his films are some of the greatest of all time, but come on. This is nonsense.
Guess what, some art is high brow some art is low brow.
this is a dumb take.
I loathe the MCU but they're movies shown in theaters thus they're cinema.
this is a dumb take.
I loathe the MCU but they're movies shown in theaters thus they're cinema.
The wording is of course super nebulous but this here is on the money: "It isn't the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being."
Because it's not trying to be. Coming from someone that's seen almost every minute of MCU put to film (including every TV series, every short, every webisode tie-in), and whose spent well over a grand on comic books in the past few years, the superhero genre isn't about real human beings experiencing real emotions. Trying to pretend that they are, and trying to force them into that category, does both a disservice.
Superhero stories exist on a mythic scale. They're about archetypes and ciphers and allegories. A Marvel movie has completely different goals than something like Taxi Driver or Raging Bull.
Because it's not trying to be. Coming from someone that's seen almost every minute of MCU put to film (including every TV series, every short, every webisode tie-in), and whose spent well over a grand on comic books in the past few years, the superhero genre isn't about real human beings experiencing real emotions. Trying to pretend that they are, and trying to force them into that category, does both a disservice.
Superhero stories exist on a mythic scale. They're about archetypes and ciphers and allegories. A Marvel movie has completely different goals than something like Taxi Driver or Raging Bull.
Old man says things were better in the old days when movies were real movies. I don't like them all that much but they sure look like movies to me.
of course the MCU are not citizen kane, they are not trying to be. doesnt make them any less movies than whatever arbitrary standards one wants to put out to sound more important or superior.
Yes, they follow a formula, yeah they are formulaic...every movie to some degree is, and that goes for every genre as well.
Yes, they follow a formula, yeah they are formulaic...every movie to some degree is, and that goes for every genre as well.
This is right up there with saying rap isn't music. It's OK to not like things, but Martin Scorsese isn't the arbiter of cinema.
I'm just going to leave this here.
Considering how many people here express the same mentality, its really just The Elitist Asshole Mind...
"If you can't match my level of mastery, you are not creating content in my medium."
Ugh. This is absolutely some gatekeeping bullshit. He made GREAT movies, but that doensn't make him the arbiter of what is and isn't cinema.
Hell, just call it bad cinema*. Don't assume ownership of a whole medium. That's just arrogant.
*I love the MCU popcorn flicks.
Ugh. This is absolutely some gatekeeping bullshit. He made GREAT movies, but that doensn't make him the arbiter of what is and isn't cinema.
Hell, just call it bad cinema*. Don't assume ownership of a whole medium. That's just arrogant.
*I love the MCU popcorn flicks.
So... would Jurassic Park be cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being?
This is pretty funny coming from a Daenerys stan, but I guess it's okay if it's a young white woman committing war crimes.
who cares what this dinosaur says anyway? He's made only one decent movie in his entire career and that was mostly due to the writing and De Niro. Go make Kundun II or some shit.
Lmao
The delusional MCU Generation is something else.
OP
OP
There's nothing wrong with popcorn films, but the MCU is like the equivalent of day old popcorn.
There's a certain sense of irony here considering his latest movie's budget crept so out of control that it is basically going straight to Netflix. So in a way, Marvel movies are more cinema than what he recently made! (Joker producing aside)
Cheap joke aside: Marvel (and the modern blockbuster) drives a lot of revenue towards movie theatres these days and helps boost their business. If anyone cares about the modern theatre experience: You want these big budget action films to keep making money. Without them, less people would be going to the theatre and it would be at risk of becoming a niche experience, and to me that would be absolutely depressing.
It is entirely stupid to be gatekeeping what is and what is not cinema when movie theatre chains doing well and staying profitable is what allows them to show smaller art films. Scorsese more than anyone should know this.
Cheap joke aside: Marvel (and the modern blockbuster) drives a lot of revenue towards movie theatres these days and helps boost their business. If anyone cares about the modern theatre experience: You want these big budget action films to keep making money. Without them, less people would be going to the theatre and it would be at risk of becoming a niche experience, and to me that would be absolutely depressing.
It is entirely stupid to be gatekeeping what is and what is not cinema when movie theatre chains doing well and staying profitable is what allows them to show smaller art films. Scorsese more than anyone should know this.
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