The directors and writers don't have a lot of control. They're Disney movies. A lot of the creative decisions are made before the creative people are brought in.
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Martin Scorsese clarifies his Marvel movies comments: ‘There is only one Spielberg, Lucas
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The directors and writers don't have a lot of control. They're Disney movies. A lot of the creative decisions are made before the creative people are brought in.
I'd say Taika Waititi had a pretty big hand. I've heard an interview with him where he jokingly said his goal was to strip Thor down, and hand him over as a mess to the next film maker.
Thor 3 proves my point. They brought in a visionary director and it's basically the same exact formula as every other MCU movie except the quips were actually funny for once. 10 years from now they will have a hologram of Stanley Kubrick directing one and it will be another MCU movie but with better cinematography than usual. Still a 7/10.
On the other hand, you have Joe Johnston pleasantly surprising everyone with a formulaic 7/10 MCU movie late in his career.
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That's unfortunate! But yeah, I definitely think moviepass systems are pretty good at maybe giving people more affordable options to see movies. I'm going to show my age now, but when ticket prices were about $6 per ticket, and $3-4 for popcorn and a drink, I used to see a lot more movies in the theater (not to mention the super slow turnaround for movies going from the theater to VHS release, it made more sense to see them in the theater). Another thing to consider is that a lot of people have families, and it's not like the children's ticket prices are that much better. A family of 4 going to see a movie starts going up in price significantly. In my area, I definitely see families of 4 or more going to see movies, and I'm like, "Damn, how much is this trip costing them?" It's no surprise that often a lot of families will hold out for the 3 months to see it at home, drop $20 for the digital or Blu Ray release, then have the movie available for the kids to watch however much they want.
Yeah, exactly. Most of the theaters near me are in the $25 range. When me and my ex wife would go to the movies, it was pushing $50, and at the time, I wasn't making that much money, so even though there were movies we'd have loved to have seen in the theater, we were priced out of them, even some blockbusters we really wanted to see. It was more affordable to just wait for home release.
which is why the Russos were able to change Thanos's entire motivation and personally decide to kill off Tony Stark.
People keep saying this but never substantiate it.
Even in the case of movies where producers have the main control and seen as the creators, people in the chain still give input, otherwise there would be no point in hiring them. The difference is that things need to stick to a predefined vision and in this case likely a set of brand guidelines so everything is consistent whilst allowing for small differentiation between projects.
It's weird that stuff like this gets said after Phase 3.
I think it just depends on personal thought with some of these- like I get Your ep one comments- I just disagree that mainstream culture thinks / talks of these things outside our own little nerdy bubbles. But some may disagree with 80s ones too so I get what you mean.
again disagree with black panther but I guess we will see. I loved the film, just don't know how it'll look in 20 years.
this era will be interesting in any case
nerdy bubbles? lol Black panther, terminator, and star wars are pretty mainstream.
I'm sorry but I can't look at Thor Ragnarok and not see Taika Watiti coming out of every pore. The fact is, we don't know to what degree that individual creators and directors are allowed to influence a project, and people are just being quick to say it's all machine-like because it's a big bad studio we've all decided doesn't care about creativity is in charge.
You can see his work especially in comparison to the Firefly guy but it's a far cry from his other work, especially in its mood, tone and humour and still sticks to the clear outlines established in other MCU movies. I actually had no idea it was him after watching the film but when looking you can see elements but it isn't anything like Eagle and Shark, What We Do in the Shadows, or Hunt for the Wilderpeople.
Producers aren't going to get a director involved unless they have something they want, and want their ideas but in these kind of productions they don't give directors anything close to full control, which is by far the norm nor exclusive to Disney. When directors have more control on films they are usually also credited as producers.
I'm late to this thread, but I'd say that Thor Ragnarok is the exception that proves the rule (as the saying goes). Personally, I've enjoyed all the marvel movies, but they are all kind of forgettable with the exception of ragnarok, what with it's nearly 4th wall breaking, not quite parody line straddling.
What you're describing is a collaboration. This is how collaborative fiction works.
Hold the phone, are you really equating Jurassic Park w/ Winter Soldier and Terminator 2 w/ Black Panther?
Are any of the MCU movies is in your top 5 movies of all time by chance?
Agreed.
Also, as much as I love Marty, he made ANOTHER gangster movie staring Deniro and Pacino. But he will criticize marvel for making similar movies? Lol
Indeed, all creative endeavours that use a team are collaborative, auteur movies are also a collaboration.
They are different methodologies and when you are looking at the big studios these are more like a typical corporate relationship. Which is where people are having the problem as they want more attention to detail which means allowing creatives more control and apply concepts at a fundamental level. Some corporations are really good at it, others less so. Disney has a track record of dumbing down and removing anything that might provide an edge.
Watching the MCU movies you get a feeling that something is trying to be done beyond the positioning of a character for another movie but then the payoff isn't there or lacks any gravitas. Which to me feels like the original pitches were accepted but then heavily modified through committee, resulting in a resemblance but the concept at the foundation removed or edited. To many this can make the film feel lacking as the threads you looks for in different aspects of a film don't exist. With ones you think exist don't go anywhere.
And this is not saying the quality of the work is bad as they are clearly talented individuals working on the movies. Looking at how the movies have progressed I think it is clear they are looking at the more constructive criticisms, it's just not where some would like them to be.
And this is part of the Ironic thing. Back when Marty was a kid the big thing was the Gangster Movies, and people thought they were trash. Seriously read reviews of the shows at the time and they had the same "This isn't cinema" stance that so many are taking on the Marvel Movies. For every "On the Waterfront" there were a dozen or so forgettable movies. Hell some actors like Cagney for example, who was talented in other ways, were nearly pigioned holed into being gangsters. The same could be said for Marty's movies with Deniro and Pacino. It's only because they do other roles that they aren't lumped in as Pure "Gangster" tropes. This is one of the bigger issues that faces various Italian actors in the states. You're either the guy from New York, or a Mafia character, and it's something that Italians have, for years, complained about with Scorsese's work. While he has a number of other films under his belt, a great portion of the ones that people know him for are the Gangster Films, and when you mention him you don't get "Oh the man who made Hugo about how early era movie makers created movies like To the Moon." No, you get "The dude who made Taxi Driver or The GodFather films."
On top of this, I'd just like to point out how really odd this sounds coming from him. Namely because when Taxi Driver came out, it was booed, and while it won the Palm, a lot of reservation was had about this. Not only was it later the inspiration to the guy that shot at Regan (which apparently according to sources made Marty almost quit film making), but straight up from Tennesse Williams, (A Street Car Named Desire), who was the chair at the Cannes at the time:
" Tennessee Williams took a hard stance against Taxi Driver in 1976, after his Cannes Film Festival jury awarded the film the Palme D'Or. "Watching violence on the screen is a brutalizing experience for the spectator," he told reporters. "Films should not take a voluptuous pleasure in spilling blood and in lingering on terrible cruelties as though one were in a Roman circus… I hope the cinema will dwell less constantly on offensive values without sacrificing truth." Williams' line about a "Roman circus" echoes what scandalized viewers have since waged against Scorsese for decades: that the violence of his movies does not serve a story, but rather the director's own bloodlust. " -GQ martin-scorsese-silence-controversy
Gee Marty, you're sounding like Tennesse here with the whole idea that it isn't cinema. And what's really weird is the fact that you admit that you admire them and they're not for you, but you have to keep going adding " "It's not cinema, it's something else," he said. "We shouldn't be invaded by it. We need cinemas to step up and show films that are narrative films." -indiewire.com martin-scorsese-marvel-irishman-1202181152/
I'm sorry but what?! Look I get it you don't like it and that's fine, that's normal. Not every film is made for everyone. I can't stand Godfather and the like because of the fact that the Mob had, and still may have, huge ties to Hollywood. Namely Paramount -who sold their backlot to the Mob back during the 1970s for two years allowing them to make Porns and such in the backlot area. They were actually being paid money and were producers on some films. Hell former Mob lawyer and GoodFella Sidney Korshak actually revered the movie and went to the Premiere of the Godfather.
Hollywood Gangster Films return in 2019
This article covers why the gangster films are coming back and the issue is that this sort of look Glamorizes them. Why was it the likes of John Gotti and hell buddies of Trump are looked on with awe? Because films like the GodFather or GoodFellas or Casino all glamorize the hell out of them. The same way pre-Hays code versions would too.
Here's the thing, Superhero stories are modern Mythology. There have been scholarly papers written about how they fit into that idea and how the stories can and do create views and help in how society views things, or can accept things. Example: Wiccan and Hulking, at the time Young Avengers came out in the early 2000s the idea of a teen gay couple was lambasted by readers in letters, saying they would never allow their child to read this comic because of this. On the other hand at the same time, people were not even reacting to the idea of Eli (Patriot) and Kate (Hawkeye) as a couple. The reason why was because of the shift in society and the fact that in comics some of that was explored in various couples and relationships. Fast forward to now, you have characters being shown in movies and tv series as gay couples and while there are still complaints they are so much less then they were years ago (save for the whole Bobby thing in the X-men books).
Marty arguing that they're not narrative films seems rather presumptuous given that a number of films that he's liked in the past have not had that level of Narrative storytelling to them. Let's not forget for every "Memorable" story that he does there's also the ones that were "misses" for the viewers. How many people talk about: Boxcar Bertha, New York, New York!, After Hours, The Color of Money, Cape Fear, Bring out the Dead, the Aviator, The Age of Innocence, Hugo? Still waiting on the Comedy movie Marty that you once said you'd like to do, but you keep reverting back to "How Catholic deal with guilt" and "the Mob".
Don't get me wrong I liked Hugo, I'm interested in the Killer of the Flower Moon, but honestly the whole comment of this reeks of, "ART!" and reminds me very much of how older directors were shitting all over the younger ones that were coming in in the 60s and 70s. Is he forgetting that Musicals were the big draw when he was a kid? Yes some won academy awards but a number of them were sniffed at by Hollywood at the time, and let's not forget Animation as well, they created the damn Animation Catagory so they could avoid nominating it for Best Picture again, and more recently the Pop culture one as well.
Marty, you're contributing to the cycle you know, not helping to change it.
Bloody fine post there, kudos. I don't have anything to add specifically but I enjoyed that write up, facts/links and your viewpoint.