Black panther is horribly paced, I almost fell asleep in the damn theater, no joke. You're comparing black panther favourably to terminator 2? Geez
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Martin Scorsese clarifies his Marvel movies comments: ‘There is only one Spielberg, Lucas
- Thread starter Scullibundo
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Black panther is horribly paced, I almost fell asleep in the damn theater, no joke. You're comparing black panther favourably to terminator 2? Geez
I respect Marty but the more he opens his mouth on this the more he will make room for himself to say something silly. For example:
If you don't think Guardians of the Galaxy 2 doesn't convey emotional and psychological experiences then I don't think you're being fair to the movie. Sure, it's a big dumb blockbuster, but it can also have heart and convey a deep internal pain. In fact, by appealing to a large audience, it can share more of that than a smaller movie that less people will see.
I'm not a huge Marvel fanboy, and I do agree with part of his point, but there's no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Also the directors he cites are directors of big dumb action blockbusters.
If you don't think Guardians of the Galaxy 2 doesn't convey emotional and psychological experiences then I don't think you're being fair to the movie. Sure, it's a big dumb blockbuster, but it can also have heart and convey a deep internal pain. In fact, by appealing to a large audience, it can share more of that than a smaller movie that less people will see.
I'm not a huge Marvel fanboy, and I do agree with part of his point, but there's no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Also the directors he cites are directors of big dumb action blockbusters.
This is where I'm at. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that I'm going to a theater to see anything that isn't a "theme park ride" as he puts it.
Anything else I can watch at home.
And for years people have been trying to emulate Lucas and Spielberg
I've always thought the Marvel films were popcorn movies and there is nothing wrong with that. I am tired of what feels like them saturating the market though and the likelihood of other films not being made because of that.
I'll ignore his last comment as no doubt in posterity some of the Marvel films will be compared equally to those directors' contributions...
ps3ud0 8)
I'll ignore his last comment as no doubt in posterity some of the Marvel films will be compared equally to those directors' contributions...
ps3ud0 8)
I love Marty but he simplifies cinema it seems
what stops people, like i mentioned earlier, from saying Scorsese's films are just "violent white men with guns"
what stops people, like i mentioned earlier, from saying Scorsese's films are just "violent white men with guns"
What stops people from saying his films are violent white men with guns? You mean films like King of Comedy, Wolf of Wall Street, Gangs of New York, and Raging Bull? Those films?
all the great movies he's made that don't involve violent white men with guns
I know, i know
its just a criticism i have seen on Scorsese on twitter by couple people since this whole thing
EDIT: Nevermind I misread this lol
Raging Bull and Gangs of New York are chock full of violent white people, just no guns :-D
And completely missing the point of what Scorsese says.
30 years ago, studios were always looking for the next big movie and would welcome new ideas and young directors. Now... It's cookie cutter nonsense, all the innovation is in TV.
OP
OP
But Cameron had also made other films and his films on the whole have a lot more thematic and character depth, whilst pushing the medium as a whole forward technologically.
If you think about Scorsese's love of a guy like Méliès, you can understand his appreciation for what Cameron does.
my point with that is that saying his movies are just about violent white men would be a surface level criticism without looking deeper into the films. Which i feel like he is doing with the MCU, I wasn't trying to say its a valid critique of his films
30 years ago the highest grossing movies were Batman and a third Indiana Jones.
I mean I get your point but...
Even stuff like The Departed, which primarily involves white guys with guns, deals with themes such as the incompetency of bureaucracy, patriarchy, loyalty, honor, and more specifically the stress of undercover police work.
interesting, if somewhat agree
I think many could say something like Breaking Bad was a bigger pop culture event than a lot of movies of the 21st century
The movie landscape has changed and will change again. Musicals were popular in the '50s, auteur films were popular in the '60s, the '70s gave birth to blockbusters.
Interesting take by Marvel fan and columnist for Hollywood Reporter NBA legend, Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Scorsese Isn't Wrong About Marvel (He Isn't Right, Either)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Scorsese Isn't Wrong About Marvel (He Isn't Right, Either)
it's not, unless TV = Twin Peaks and literally nothing else and Movies = MCU and literally nothing else
I get what Scorsese is going for but I think it's somewhat misguided. All the directors he mentioned get to largely control their own works. The MCU by its very nature is more producer driven. I would be all for more directorial influence/control inside the MCU and some of these larger franchise movies but it of course runs the increased risk of a director going 'out of control' and releasing a 150 million+ dud.
Its pretty easy to do with a subjective media like film. Besides Joe Morton I find most of the acting in T2 to be either really wooden or distractedly bad ( looking at you Edward Furlong). The script is just serviceable enough for Camerons amazing effects and stunt work. The argument could be made that T2 is just a really expensive Universal Studios stunt show and not 'cinema' if gatekeepers want to get pedantic with the medium.
Black Panther has TERRIBLE special effects but Coogler is a better director with actors than Cameron so in that regard I find BP more compelling than T2.
He refuses to face reality. People prefer to watch movies in the comfort of their own home nowadays and big 'theme park' movies are keeping the theater experience alive by bringing in the crowds and essentially subsidizing smaller films for theater chains. If 'theme park' movies disappeared tomorrow, the theater experiences itself would be done. It's not the 80s anymore, people have moved on.
Completely agree with Scorsese. Marvel movies are the cinema equivalent of fast food. Thank god Joker came out to save comic book movies.
There's like 3 good movies, rest are garbage tier.
There are plenty on this forum who truly believed that films like Black Panther, Infinity War and End Game deserved best picture wins. People talking about crying multiple times in these films etc. That's all fine and normal (some of my favourite entertainment is divisive to say the least) but when you are super invested alternative views can be confrontational.
But yeah, I don't think comparing blockbuster films to amusement park rides is off base, but he does come across as unnecessarily bitter because there's plenty of avenues for independent film makers etc these days.
Marvel movies can be fun but most of them are just the cinematic equivalent of a kid smashing their action figures together for two hours. They are mostly brightly coloured noise. They are like theme park rides.
I don't agree with Scorsese's attitude, though. I'm sure in 1977 there were some crusty directors who thought Star Wars was not real cinema. A good film is a good film, it just so happens that most modern comic book films are not very good.
I don't agree with Scorsese's attitude, though. I'm sure in 1977 there were some crusty directors who thought Star Wars was not real cinema. A good film is a good film, it just so happens that most modern comic book films are not very good.
This was the take for a lot of people but they ended up just being called snobs or being told that the idea of high art is classist
This is really just embarrasing for Scorsese at this point. I don't know what's worse: that he's foolish enough to genuinely believe what he's saying or he's trolling for marketing purposes. I've lost a lot of respect for him either way.
Although, to be fair, I already did that when he defended Polanski.
Although, to be fair, I already did that when he defended Polanski.
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I used to drink the Marvel kool-aid a bit heavier and maybe like 2 years ago I would have taken more offense to this but nowadays it's just like... who cares, Endgame is literally the highest grossing movie ever, people clearly love these movies, Scorcese voicing his (frankly mild) criticism doesn't change that.
If someone's friend came up to them and said "Marvel movies are theme park rides," what are you gonna do, run him out of town? It's not a big deal.
He's 100% right.
For the people missing the point and going "lol Lucas cuz the prequels" or w/e, he's talking about how Spielberg, Lucas, and Cameron were/are visionaries and all around outstanding Directors when it comes to blockbuster film. Lucas being a shit writer doesn't negate that. And he's right about it.
Every single one of the Marvel movies are plug basically plug and play with the Directors. Not to say they don't have any influence, but it's mostly a ship being "Showrun" by a creative executive (Kevin Feige) in a very similar way to Television. Ie, the showrunner decides what really happens and the director's color in those lines. To the point that these films are planned out far in advance of even finding directors and action sequences are pre-vised before a camera has even started rolling. At that point they literally just can get whatever random person regardless of skill level (and often do) and plug them into the system, and get a pretty decent blockbuster out of it.
James Gunn is probably the one exception to this in that he at least tries to have a flavor of his own, and is allowed to -- and even then, he doesn't really go against anything I just said in the prior paragraph. Ultimately these are all Marvel Studios' movies. This is in stark contrast to Spielberg, Lucas, and Cameron who all have made exactly the movies they wanted to throughout their careers.
Before crazy Marvel fans jump down my throat, please note: I actually like the MCU and most of the films that have come out of it -- but this is a legitimate complaint with them and why they will never hold a candle to the work of the 3 aforementioned Directors, and why Scorsese is pointing them out specifically.
For the people missing the point and going "lol Lucas cuz the prequels" or w/e, he's talking about how Spielberg, Lucas, and Cameron were/are visionaries and all around outstanding Directors when it comes to blockbuster film. Lucas being a shit writer doesn't negate that. And he's right about it.
Every single one of the Marvel movies are plug basically plug and play with the Directors. Not to say they don't have any influence, but it's mostly a ship being "Showrun" by a creative executive (Kevin Feige) in a very similar way to Television. Ie, the showrunner decides what really happens and the director's color in those lines. To the point that these films are planned out far in advance of even finding directors and action sequences are pre-vised before a camera has even started rolling. At that point they literally just can get whatever random person regardless of skill level (and often do) and plug them into the system, and get a pretty decent blockbuster out of it.
James Gunn is probably the one exception to this in that he at least tries to have a flavor of his own, and is allowed to -- and even then, he doesn't really go against anything I just said in the prior paragraph. Ultimately these are all Marvel Studios' movies. This is in stark contrast to Spielberg, Lucas, and Cameron who all have made exactly the movies they wanted to throughout their careers.
Before crazy Marvel fans jump down my throat, please note: I actually like the MCU and most of the films that have come out of it -- but this is a legitimate complaint with them and why they will never hold a candle to the work of the 3 aforementioned Directors, and why Scorsese is pointing them out specifically.
Yeah, but studios were looking for the next Indiana Jones, the next Star Wars, the next (Insert here) and in the process they created lots and lots and lots of new franchises and allowed lots and lots and lots of young creators with ideas to get their shot at greatness.
Just look at Lucas, or Spielberg, ffs Spielberg was a nobody when he got a triple-A budget to film Jaws.
Yes, here is his explanation of high art from his article... Which boils it done simply
You're right, but I feel like we should understand that it's not necessarily worse, just different. The MCU is basically a longform, big budget TV series. And that's okay. It's not the death of cinema that this studio is trying something different that works for them.
The fact that other studios are trying this approach and not understanding why it works for Marvel is a bigger problem imo.
Maybe he, like many of his colleagues, is just frustrated at the money trumps everything reality that he used to thrive in himself (and still does to a lesser extend). The money and production machine went somewhere he is not really all that comfortable at, he used to think that he was making stuff that mattered to the world, spotlight center and the money was the confirmation because it's the metric of hollywood. Now his world is not the same anymore as it used to be.