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Martin Freeman (The Hobbit, Fargo) openly discusses hitting his two children and referring to them as "little f**kers" [see staff post]
- Thread starter Kalmakov
- Start date
Their "different opinion" is literally that it's acceptable to hit kids. They are, with no unclear terms, advocating for child abuse.
I agree, it is physical abuse. Hell, I think child indoctrination into family religions is abusive too, but I don't expect people to be banned for saying it's good or okay.
I just don't see the value in banning people for showing some moderate opinion on it. especially when somebody seems to be on the side that is more approachable to discuss with on it.
"physical punishment" is abuse, no matter how limited. striking to inflict pain is still abuse regardless of what lesson you're trying to teach. The absence of care and proper guidance, replaced by frustration and violence, is neglectful abuse.
defending any form of physical attack on a child is defending child abuse.
I mean you either think hitting kids is ok or you don't. I'm confused what the moderate opinion is.
What is a "moderate opinion" on hitting kids and what is the value of tolerating it?
Then you are alright letting people expressing acceptance for "limited physical punishment" for spouses and elderly parents, right?
So in your eyes, a light spanking on the butt is the same as punching a kid?
I'm against both, but I'm able to recognize that the person doing the former can be discussed with about their views while the later is beyond help.
And what do you consider "light spanking on the butt"? Because hurting a kid is not "light", and if it doesn't hurt them then what is the point in using it as punishment?
i am very fine with this forum banning people who defend physical violence against kids
it's not just something i can chalk down to "differences of opinion"
I recognize that child spanking is a bad thing that largely exists due to old traditions. I get your point. My point is that people are the way they are due to the environment they grew up in in many cases. Just banning them doesn't really do anything when the discussion didn't at least appear to be unhinges. I'd rather open the floor of discussion for those that are more moderate since they at least are approachable about their views.
And I don't like to get all high and mighty about because there's always things people can point out that we do are cruel. A vegetarian can list out all of the abuse I create by eating meat. I don't really have an argument against them beyond I like meat. I've cut down on my meat consumption but I don't see the value in a vegetarian to just cut out all contact from me if I'm approachable. And if you think that it's bad to compare children being abused to animals being raised horribly and slaughtered for food, then that just speaks to your value system.
My whole point isn't to defend physically punishing children. I'm against it. I'd just rather not ban people when they are at least approachable with their views that are harmful. We all change through discourse.
This is the disingenuous stuff I'm taking about. I don't see any point in playing these gotcha word games. It's clear I mean a parent spanking a child with light force compared to the harder force they could potentially apply. We both know what I mean. Yes, pain is being inflicted in both cases. I'm against both cases. You get that right? If somebody told you "I lightly spank my kid on the butt when they misbehave" and another said "I punch my kid when they misbehave", I assume you would have different reactions to both. You don't see how the first person can be talked to?
Then by the same token we shouldn't ban people with racist, homophobic, or sexist view either because banning them does nothing for the discussion either. The fact is that discussion and debates rarely ever change peoples opinions or views. Physically hitting your kids is unhinged, being polite about it doesn't make it any less so.
Yes because people always tell the truth and never understate what they do online. The fact is that we don't know how "light" the hitting actually is unless we are there. I only hit my wife instead of cutting her is different as well, but we wouldn't be talking to the guy hitting his wife just because cutting her with a knife is worse. This isn't a case of someone being for or against universal health care where you debate the merits for or against it, this is about people physically hurting other people. What more is there to discuss beside the very fact that physically hurting someone is bad? That the science shows that it is bad?
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I was smacked by teachers as a 5 year old, and occasionally by my parents. I don't remember anything but the desire to hit them back, and the frustration of knowing I couldn't. It didn't make me want to behave (shouting did though - I was terrified of that), and I definitely feel the few memories I have gel with the scientific consensus. I'd never, ever discipline a child in a way that would cause them harm. The idea is abhorrent.
I was smacked in the face a couple of times by my parents as a teenager during heated arguments. I remember thinking "I win."
I was smacked in the face a couple of times by my parents as a teenager during heated arguments. I remember thinking "I win."
As a child who was spanked on the butt -as opposed to being punched - I was still traumatized and affected by that punishment. All because I didn't want to eat green beans. To a child - it's still trauma. It's a betrayal of family trust.
I remember when I was in elementary school in Georgia - this had to be 1988 or 1989, you would see the principal taking kids in the middle of the hallway, bending them over his knee and hitting them in the ass with a large wooden paddle.
Obviously going absolutes in either direction is bad. But then we'd ban people for not being vegetarians or indoctrinating their kids into their religion, etc.
I think one thing that makes spanking kids different is most people here grew up being spanked and didn't really think past that, you know? Most people here probably don't have kids. So there's a good chance they're immature about these views because they've existed with the same perspective on it since they were a kid. It's not like they've actually harmed kids in many cases. I view people like that as much more approachable than those who have acted out on their views and developed actual behaviors.
I suppose the similar scenario for other issues is a foreigner from a homogeneous ethnic background.Somebody from India could come to the US as a young adult with some very outdated views here. I'd give more latitude to him on challenging his views than somebody who had more opportunity to learn.
Stupid argument that's incredibly hard to take seriously or as being in good faith instead of concern trolling.
I think we should allow people that think it's alright to shove their partners around a bit. It's not like they're beating them so they're obviously not beyond help.
I think we should allow people that think it's alright to abuse their kids a bit. It's not like they're punching them in the face so they're obviously not beyond help.
I think we should allow people that think it's alright to grope women a bit. It's not like they're raping them so they're obviously not beyond help.
Comparing banning people for advocating child abuse to banning people for not being vegetarian. Fucking clown material.
I think we should allow people that think it's alright to shove their partners around a bit. It's not like they're beating them so they're obviously not beyond help.
I think we should allow people that think it's alright to abuse their kids a bit. It's not like they're punching them in the face so they're obviously not beyond help.
I think we should allow people that think it's alright to grope women a bit. It's not like they're raping them so they're obviously not beyond help.
Comparing banning people for advocating child abuse to banning people for not being vegetarian. Fucking clown material.
Having been hit by parents, extended family, teachers, and a motherfucking DENTIST at one point, it never stops being infuriating seeing others tell me and others who suffered the same that it was somehow not abuse.
You tried and failed. Quit now, while you're behind.
You tried and failed. Quit now, while you're behind.
You should consider reflecting on why your point was not taken well. Who knows, you might learn something.
Nah, its clearly because we're the morons for not tolerating the support of child abuse. "Difference of opinion" and all...
I think I was whipped maybe once or twice in my life (I was the good kid, lol) but I think if my parents swore at me, I'd be a lot more scarred emotionally than I ever could by physically by a spanking or whatever. My parents never swore at me.
But I think spankings are just relics of old ideas of what it it takes to discipline children. I'd never hit or swear at my kids.
But I think spankings are just relics of old ideas of what it it takes to discipline children. I'd never hit or swear at my kids.
I know this, but hitting her is something i will never do. My family has the attitude of if your kids dont do what you want hit them. I was beat as a child. Not just with a belt. All that made me was afraid to do something wrong and afraid of my parents. To this day I never felt comfortable around them and i even feel weird telling them i love them(even though i do). My family asked us if we were going to hit her and we said no. They judged us. Forgive me for having the opposite attitude.
This is 100% pure fucking gold. And anyone who feels "Oh, it's just a smack on the butt" needs to read this.
It's not about qualifying the difference from an ADULT'S point of view. It's about the CHILD'S point of view.
It blows my mind that some people in this very thread cannot begin to even think about that possibility and empathize with someone other than themselves.
Thank you for sharing this.
I don't think anybody here is being a moron. It's clear in my posts that I'm not trying to be the antagonist here. Half of my point is that those who are more moderate in their views on spanking kids can be reached to not do so and most here haven't really thought about it beyond their childhood. People here want to make this into a winner/loser argument but I don't really care for that. I really hope people can see that my point isn't to defend people, I can only say it so much.
There's no "moderate" view on child abuse, as if everyone can reach some sort of compromise in which it's agreed upon that maybe a light spanking or two is OK. It isn't. To wit: https://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/04/spanking
Coming into a thread about child abuse (which many is this forum have experienced) and expressing concern only for those banned for SUPPORTING CHILD ABUSE is antagonistic as FUCK, no matter how nice you tried (and failed) to phrase it.
That you still can't grasp this notion speaks volumes...
"Part of the problem is good discipline isn't quick or easy," she says. "Even the best of us parents don't always have that kind of patience."
This is ultimately what it comes down to. Discipline should be carefully thought out - and some people aren't cut out to be patient, thoughtful parents.
Sorry that you took it that way. Wasn't my intention to make people upset. My parents regularly physically punished me too, and I'm against it. I am the person who actively argues against it when the topic comes up in person. I have found that many people who are in favor of it just think that way because it's how they were raised and they haven't really thought much about it. So I have found they are often able to be talked to about it because their conviction in it isn't really based on much. Once they are a parent and have already begun the behavior, it feels pointless because they will defend their actions to the death.
Yes I do think we shouldn't ban people for showing any amount of being in favor of physically punishing kids because I think it's an area people can easily be improved on. At the very least, I would have appreciated people more for taking that point instead of trying to paint me as being for abusing kids or defending those that do.
People did reply to you on this point and why it was silly - you just ignored them. Where is this line in the sand on child abuse you're drawing to where people advocating it are banned vs. not banned and does this ethos of 'tolerating that which isn't the worst' extend outside of child abuse to areas like racism, sexism, domestic violence and similar?
User Banned (2 Weeks): Advocating child abuse
I was hit as a child, usually with a belt round the arse. I'd done something wrong, put the window through a fair few times with the football, just generally been a little shit.
I'm not a saint as a parent but I dont blame my childhood either.
Its nobodies place to tell someone how to raise there kids.
I had it easy growing up, you used to get the ruler by the teachers. I just missed that.
I'm not a saint as a parent but I dont blame my childhood either.
Its nobodies place to tell someone how to raise there kids.
I had it easy growing up, you used to get the ruler by the teachers. I just missed that.
I did respond to this.
If people would like to discuss this further with me, feel free to PM me. I've taken up enough time in this thread.
So with that FAUTLESS logic, if the kid shows up at school with bruises and a cast on his arm, we should should just ignore it.
None of our business, am I right?
The amount of people we get on here every time this topic comes out defending assaulting children as a method of discipline is truly mind boggling.
When there's enough evidence to suggest that it can cause lifelong harm then staying quiet is worse.
Its everyone's place to speak up against it.
No that's child abuse.
Why is everything blown out of proportion. A man swears at his kids and suddenly he is breaking their arms and beating them black and blue.
There's a lot of shitty parents out there. No wonder people are so dysfunctional.
Why am I completely unsurprised that some people in this thread are excusing and normalizing abuse?
Don't strike kids ever, period. You're raising human beings, not trained animals.
Why am I completely unsurprised that some people in this thread are excusing and normalizing abuse?
Don't strike kids ever, period. You're raising human beings, not trained animals.
