I like the idea begind pa kent, trying to keep his son safe in the last few moments
But the scene just looked really dumb
Martha was just 'oh, okay'
But the scene just looked really dumb
Martha was just 'oh, okay'
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"Martha!" vs Pa Kent getting tornadoed to death, which was the dumber DCEU moment?
- Thread starter El Bombastico
- Start date
Why'd you enter the thread if the subject annoys you? Just to insult people?
Pa Kent for sure. Could've been a plot device to actually reveal Superman to the town. Could've had a Spider-Man 2 train moment.
The saddest thing is that Sucker Punch is better than every single Snyder DC movies. It's an entertaining and sometimes creative but ultimately forgettable movie... but "forgettable" is kind of a compliment compared to movies like Man of Steel and BvS that we're still making fun of, half a decade later.
Another few things you night have missed...
Not everyone has had this discussion before here. It's a big site, users come and go. It's not always the same people.
The people who do repeatedly take part in the discussion usually aren't even that invested. They see the thread pop up, drop their argument, and leave.
This thread has been floated mostly by Subpar's contraian bullshit and obnoxious posturing.
We ALL repeat discussions in life, espexially when it's something that we either really liked or disliked, you're a massive hypocrite here.
There is an ignore button, you can ignore threads very easily if you find them annoying.
Do yourself a favour mate.
I can't take anyone defending these scenes seriously in general, but this "wake up sheeple" speech truly takes the cake. Bravo and thanks for the laughs. :D
Is your primary mode of debate to sidestep your opponent's rebuttal, put your own words in their mouth (starting with "So"), then argue against your own rebuttal that you made up, inserted, and felt more comfortable against??
Also, that you would conflate Moses and Jesus sort of disqualifies you from that particular debate, IMO.
You seem to be confusing MoS Pa Kent's thoughts and fears with the meta portrayal of Superman as a Jesus figure as if that's the same topic of discussion.
This is not what MoS Pa Kent was afraid of.
This is also not what Superman is traditionally about. He is the Man of Tomorrow. He is such a good person that he uses his powers for good, even though he doesn't have to. He is meant to be the example of the good we can become, not some god to lord over us. That's what's wrong with it.
Well, that image just entered my brain...
I don't have an opinion on those movies, they're the same Hollywood shit American engulf the world with, you can keep it.
I'd not consider "annoying" an insult. I opened up the thread to see what was being told and saw a comment that I was agreeing with and answer to it then someone who disagrees with me answered to me. At no point did I decided to counter someone's opinion.
There's also an ignore poster option, you're invited to use it.
Edit: sorry, the you I used in my previous post was not about you personally but you as the internet, sorry for the misunderstanding.
I would not...
And you're annoying me !
/JK
I will stop using the word then and edit my post. Sorry.
Pa Kent. I actually was enjoying Man of Steel up until that point, then it was all downhill from there. The Martha scene is incredibly stupid, but it's in an incredibly stupid movie, so it works.
the tornado because it completely misses the point of pa kent's death. The martha scene was laughable but that's all.
I mean there both fine, although the tornado is much worse character wise
Although, Sometimes I do wonder El Bombastico if you're entire personality is hating the DCEU lol
Although, Sometimes I do wonder El Bombastico if you're entire personality is hating the DCEU lol
Honestly, that stupid scene was pretty much worth it for this gif edit alone.Pa Kent scene is just the absolute peak.
I'm not entirely sure what I'm supposed to say here but this seems fine? If you're referring to the soldier in the story he's not saying his mother's name so... ok?
I think the person who highlighted the Ayn Rand article hit the mark on that. I don't go read or watch superman because of some messiah-lite figure, that's missing the fundamental point of the boy scout with a heart of gold. This isn't the kind of movie where you come up with some alternative take on superman, its the first movie in 10 years where you re-emphasis what makes superman, well him.
Who in WB thought the Ayn Rand fanboy was a good fit for the goddam man of steel
Who in WB thought the Ayn Rand fanboy was a good fit for the goddam man of steel
Got nothing much to say on Flag´s bit. He is a GI meathead who has a briefing to give. He got all across needed in record time. Well done? The MoS flashbacks are all great but did the sacrifice have to be over a dog? Diane Lane even jokes about that on the Blu Ray. Oh well. Speaking of her.
That was Chris Terrio´s idea. And we are all in a better place for it.
My low-level critique is that Superman should have got a Marta Kent in there but I get it. Batman had a boot on his throat. Not much air to work with. He even audibly gurgles. I wonder what fully fresh memes JLA 2021 will bring? The homeless extra Gordon interacts with might strike out, the surreal Manhunter reveal is gold, but I put my chips on the Mother Box lore. What's in the box? The film will also go all out on Snyder style mass destruction. The biggest one yet. Speaking of Terrio memes.
And then it came true! Godspeed Zaddy. So much Snyder goodness set for 2021.
Edit: Darkseid fighting 3 very beefy and barely dressed greek gods at once in an actual scene. That too could be solid fodder for memes.
That was Chris Terrio´s idea. And we are all in a better place for it.
My low-level critique is that Superman should have got a Marta Kent in there but I get it. Batman had a boot on his throat. Not much air to work with. He even audibly gurgles. I wonder what fully fresh memes JLA 2021 will bring? The homeless extra Gordon interacts with might strike out, the surreal Manhunter reveal is gold, but I put my chips on the Mother Box lore. What's in the box? The film will also go all out on Snyder style mass destruction. The biggest one yet. Speaking of Terrio memes.
And then it came true! Godspeed Zaddy. So much Snyder goodness set for 2021.
Edit: Darkseid fighting 3 very beefy and barely dressed greek gods at once in an actual scene. That too could be solid fodder for memes.
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It's this. "Martha"???? It's your fucking mom who the fuck would blurt out their actual name? It's so damn contrived
Pa Kent dying maybe stupid but that's it. It's a movie and we all know people do stupid shit irl, even worse than that. It's nothing extraordinary and at least fits with how they were characterizing Pa the whole movie.
Suicide Squad is just garbage 100%, it's no contest there. It's Martha, but the whole movie is that.
hesrightyouknow.jpg
Also, The Martha scene is so close to being good. Just have Superman say mother instead of Martha.
Supes: Mother
Bats: ...mother?
Supes: Martha Kent, Lex has her
Bats: ...Martha...
Que flashback, Avoid why did you say that name scene.
I didn't like the tornado scene, because everyone is standing under the overpass likes it's some magic bubble while they watch the tornado engulf Pa Kent.
Also, I think most people are aware, especially people from the Midwest, that tornado's do crazy shit all the time. A tornado can tear up an entire street and leave one house untouched, people survive in the shallowest of ditches. It wouldn't be that unbelievable that Clark ran out and saved the dog and survived. There is a shallow ditch between the opposing lanes of the interstate, clearly visible in the scene. Hell, Pa Kent could have just rolled into it and survived. They even tell you to do that exact thing if you're stuck on the road and have no other options.
The Martha scene could have been good if it was executed better. The general idea of it is pretty logically.
OP
OP
My favorite part about that scene is that NOTHING HAPPENED to Clark. He didn't because some national celebrity. The US government didn't take him away to vivisect him or whatever. None of Pa Kent's fears were justified because, in probably the only good example of provincialism I've ever seen, the people of Smallville kept a code of silence about the whole bus incident out of respect and gratitude for the Kents. Just like they would've again if Clark had just saved Pa from the fucking tornado.
This post does not go unnoticed and nails my issues with Pa Costner and MoS as a whole.
Everything about Pa Kent in MoS was just atrocious. When you get the Kents wrong, you get Superman wrong and holy shit did Snyder get the Kents so horribly wrong.
The Martha scene was just dumb.
The Martha scene was just dumb.
It's a little corny(pa Kent especially), but yeah, I agree.
He should've had Martian Manhunter change into the family dog to make Pa think he got out. Lmao.
I mean, it's not like if Superman has also super-spee... oh no he has that.
Yeah, the Martha moment falls flat because of execution, not concept. The Pa Kent scene falls flat because of concept and execution.
The Martha scene could work as a way to shake Batman out of his murderous singular focus, by reinforcing that Superman has people he cares about and wants to protect. Just him having a mother he loves alone could have been enough. The fact that their mother's have the same name isn't required, to be honest. I think I would have had the "Martha" moment play out during a lull in the battle: Both Bruce and Clark are spent mentally and physically, though Bats still has a little fight left in him to finish things, if he can just get to his feet. They're practically on their knees, crawling towards victory (think the Rocky/Apollo fight, where both fighters are struggling to get to their feet, and it's uncertain who is really going to be the victor).
Clark manages to choke out that he has to save his mother, who is being held prisoner by Lex, and doesn't have much time left before he kills her. We can show, not tell, that Batman is taken aback by this revelation. This "inhuman threat" has a mother?
There could be a brief exchange where Bats is like, "Mother? The hell you talkin' about, 'mother?'" If you want, you can have Clark reveal his mother's name, and have some fridge logic for the audience where they put the pieces together themselves and are like, "Oh shit, Clark and Bruce's mothers have the same name!" instead of hamfistedly spelling it out. But the thing here is to have a character moment for Bruce. For the bulk of the movie, he has been consumed by this desire to eliminate a person he has "othered." Or, don't mention the name "Martha" at this moment at all. Just have Bats snap out of his stupor for a moment, and wrestle with his thirst for revenge, and his desire to not let innocents die if he can help it. If there's one thing Bruce and Clark have in common, it's that they will do what they can to keep an innocent person from dying.
Bruce, being in better shape out of the two after their battle, shifts gears, and decides to spare Clark, for now, and check out this Martha Kent situation. If it's legit, he'll save her. If not, he's going to come back and finish Clark off. This is also where I'd rework the introduction of Doomsday. While Bats runs off to rescue Martha, I'd cut to Lex creating Doomsday and unleashing him upon the city. A weakened Superman must then attempt to stop him.
We intersperse this fight with the genuinely badass Martha rescue scene, and perhaps it is here, after Bruce rescues Martha, we get a really brief moment where Martha introduces herself to Batman, and have a quick flash of the Wayne family gravestone and see the name Martha Wayne. Martha, being sharp, could maybe ask what's wrong, and have Bruce say something along the lines of "I think I've made a terrible mistake, I need to get back to your boy," or some such melodramatic line, and have Bats rush back to Clark, who is having a tough go with Doomsday. There'd be some tension, as Bats is trying to get back to Superman, who he's finally realizing is not the enemy, in order to help him stop Doomsday. You can rework the fight by having Batman and Superman getting trounced by Doomsday, then have Wonder Woman show up to tip the scales in their favor when the fight seems unwinnable, and still have Superman ultimately die while stopping Doomsday.
Bruce could then wrestle with feeling responsible for Superman's death, knowing that if he hadn't weakened him with the Kryptonite, there's a chance Supes could have survived. The rest of the movie can play out the same way it does, with Bruce and Diana deciding to search out more gifted metahumans.
What I'm trying to say is that there were ways to make the Martha scene work, and have the intended emotion resonance that Snyder was hoping for.
The Martha scene could work as a way to shake Batman out of his murderous singular focus, by reinforcing that Superman has people he cares about and wants to protect. Just him having a mother he loves alone could have been enough. The fact that their mother's have the same name isn't required, to be honest. I think I would have had the "Martha" moment play out during a lull in the battle: Both Bruce and Clark are spent mentally and physically, though Bats still has a little fight left in him to finish things, if he can just get to his feet. They're practically on their knees, crawling towards victory (think the Rocky/Apollo fight, where both fighters are struggling to get to their feet, and it's uncertain who is really going to be the victor).
Clark manages to choke out that he has to save his mother, who is being held prisoner by Lex, and doesn't have much time left before he kills her. We can show, not tell, that Batman is taken aback by this revelation. This "inhuman threat" has a mother?
There could be a brief exchange where Bats is like, "Mother? The hell you talkin' about, 'mother?'" If you want, you can have Clark reveal his mother's name, and have some fridge logic for the audience where they put the pieces together themselves and are like, "Oh shit, Clark and Bruce's mothers have the same name!" instead of hamfistedly spelling it out. But the thing here is to have a character moment for Bruce. For the bulk of the movie, he has been consumed by this desire to eliminate a person he has "othered." Or, don't mention the name "Martha" at this moment at all. Just have Bats snap out of his stupor for a moment, and wrestle with his thirst for revenge, and his desire to not let innocents die if he can help it. If there's one thing Bruce and Clark have in common, it's that they will do what they can to keep an innocent person from dying.
Bruce, being in better shape out of the two after their battle, shifts gears, and decides to spare Clark, for now, and check out this Martha Kent situation. If it's legit, he'll save her. If not, he's going to come back and finish Clark off. This is also where I'd rework the introduction of Doomsday. While Bats runs off to rescue Martha, I'd cut to Lex creating Doomsday and unleashing him upon the city. A weakened Superman must then attempt to stop him.
We intersperse this fight with the genuinely badass Martha rescue scene, and perhaps it is here, after Bruce rescues Martha, we get a really brief moment where Martha introduces herself to Batman, and have a quick flash of the Wayne family gravestone and see the name Martha Wayne. Martha, being sharp, could maybe ask what's wrong, and have Bruce say something along the lines of "I think I've made a terrible mistake, I need to get back to your boy," or some such melodramatic line, and have Bats rush back to Clark, who is having a tough go with Doomsday. There'd be some tension, as Bats is trying to get back to Superman, who he's finally realizing is not the enemy, in order to help him stop Doomsday. You can rework the fight by having Batman and Superman getting trounced by Doomsday, then have Wonder Woman show up to tip the scales in their favor when the fight seems unwinnable, and still have Superman ultimately die while stopping Doomsday.
Bruce could then wrestle with feeling responsible for Superman's death, knowing that if he hadn't weakened him with the Kryptonite, there's a chance Supes could have survived. The rest of the movie can play out the same way it does, with Bruce and Diana deciding to search out more gifted metahumans.
What I'm trying to say is that there were ways to make the Martha scene work, and have the intended emotion resonance that Snyder was hoping for.
Having read The Fountainhead in high school, I'm especially horrified that WB let an Ayn Rand fanboy do a Superman movie. Talk about the polar opposite of what Superman is supposed to stand for, holy shit.
Ayn Rand's ideology is nothing but a sick excuse for selfishness that tries to dress it up in some bizarre ubermensch bullshit.
It's such a waste. I remember someone in another thread about these movies pointing out that a Superman that acted like the actual character would have been incredibly timely. There's a reason people really latched onto Captain America (even with the baggage of him wearing the American flag and all).
Believe it or not, people respond strongly to characters that make us think about our own potential for good. Dark and gritty is boring, IMO. And nowadays... yeah. I think people could have used an uplifting character.
Ayn Rand's ideology is nothing but a sick excuse for selfishness that tries to dress it up in some bizarre ubermensch bullshit.
It's such a waste. I remember someone in another thread about these movies pointing out that a Superman that acted like the actual character would have been incredibly timely. There's a reason people really latched onto Captain America (even with the baggage of him wearing the American flag and all).
Believe it or not, people respond strongly to characters that make us think about our own potential for good. Dark and gritty is boring, IMO. And nowadays... yeah. I think people could have used an uplifting character.
